Ford Ranger - milking the cow for every last drop..

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by jpd80

While the Shark is a good effort for an extended range electric vehicle, for Australian
conditions, something like an extended range diesel electric vehicle is gonna be a better fit.
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Yet the ranger hybrid will be a petrol vehicle. So either the car companies know something. Or the global market will sell better with a petrol hybrid and Australia isn't worth the huge investment needed to create a diesel version.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Yet the ranger hybrid will be a petrol vehicle. So either the car companies know something. Or the global market will sell better with a petrol hybrid and Australia isn't worth the huge investment needed to create a diesel version.

I don't think there are many diesel hybrids around, it doesn't seem to be a thing.

Maybe there's issues around stop/start nature and low load scenarios of hybrids and using a diesel engine for it.

[prydey]

Diesel is too dirty to meet the ever tightening emissions regs.

One of the reasons Everest will be reclassified as a commercial vehicle I believe.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

Diesel is too dirty to meet the ever tightening emissions regs.

One of the reasons Everest will be reclassified as a commercial vehicle I believe.

That also has implications in toll road usage for Everest owners, if new Everest is reclassified from car to LCV, toll cost raises from $12.18 to $19.16 for a trip along the Tullamarine/Monash freeway one way.

If you were doing that trip for work 5 days a week (240 work days excl 4 weeks annual leave) it'd cost something like an extra ~$1700/year in car Everest vs LCV Everest - just one way, so times by 2 for return trip.

Depending on where I'm working I tend to use both tolls roads in Melbourne - Citylink + Eastlink.

[prydey]

Yes, and rego.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

Yes, and rego.

Its one of the reasons why I don't use a ute/van as my daily, I get discount on ute rego because regional area, but I'd end up paying way more in tolls commuting to/from work.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Its one of the reasons why I don't use a ute/van as my daily, I get discount on ute rego because regional area, but I'd end up paying way more in tolls commuting to/from work.

Also one of the reasons I bought an Everest instead of a Ranger. I pay 4cyl rego here in SA. Ute rego would be double. Roughly $650 v $1300/yr.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I don't think there are many diesel hybrids around, it doesn't seem to be a thing.

Maybe there's issues around stop/start nature and low load scenarios of hybrids and using a diesel engine for it.

What are railways using
Diesel electrics
Can this tech be applied to road vehicles?
You have more tech expertise than me

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kevino

What are railways using
Diesel electrics
Can this tech be applied to road vehicles?
You have more tech expertise than me

Much bigger scale/load though, pretty sure thats a series-hybrid application as well rather than parallel hybrid application ala light vehicle.

Prydey is on the emissions line of thought - could be, but hybrids have been around for a long time now, think back to the first Prius in the late 1990s, no diesel engine back then either.

Could also be something like diesel engine develops its torque down low and receives hardly any benefit from having an electric motor doing something there.

Maybe its the extra cost of a diesel engine, they're a bit more expensive than unleaded engines, maybe doesn't hold up with price/performance benefit for the bean counters?

Dunno, we've got an ex Ford Australia engineer here who worked on the Ranger platform, there'd be a reason for why everyone keeps overlooking this and it could be a multitude of reasons we're all beard stroking about here.

I don't have facial hair, so mines my downstairs beard

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Yet the ranger hybrid will be a petrol vehicle. So either the car companies know something. Or the global market will sell better with a petrol hybrid and Australia isn't worth the huge investment needed to create a diesel version.

I don't think it's anything special, but Ford corporate policy is that all Hybrids are gasoline. It probably makes sense as you'd still need dpf, scr etc I reckon if you did a diesel hybrid. It would still need to meet current emissions standards on the diesel part of it

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by prydey

One of the reasons Everest will be reclassified as a commercial vehicle I believe.

where did you hear about this?

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by kevino

What are railways using
Diesel electrics
Can this tech be applied to road vehicles?
You have more tech expertise than me

Car hybrids have a battery, trains diesel electrics do not, hence the reason why they use diesel, diesel engine more suitable to run the generators under heavy load than a petrol engine.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by simon varley

where did you hear about this?

I knew I'd read it somewhere so did a quick google...

https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/new...-off-road-suvs

Not necessarily the article I saw but it seems it's a federal govt decision rather than ford, and applies to suv's that are based on ladder frames... and a few other criteria.

I wonder if it will apply retrospectively.

Anyway, that's a bit off topic for this thread. I believe there is a thread already discussing NVES somewhere.

[CyberWasp]

Dumb question of the day.
Seeing Ford USA doesn't want to export the Maverick.
How hard would it be to engineer a Monocoque Bodied Ranger?
It would still be the same size but offer the more car like Monocoque feel and in theory be cheaper.
Would it be hard to do, seeing they already have engineering done for the stuff above the chassis?

[XR Martin]

The hybrid diesel Hinos we have at work at awful things. I don't actually think it's a Hino design because it's just so terrible, they recently amalgamated with Fuso so I reckon it came from them.
It weighs much heavier (500kg) than a non hybrid, and isn't any better on fuel and if anything its worse. Oh they break down all the time too
I was so hopeful it would be something as good as Toyota's petrol hybrid, but its actually embarrassingly bad.
You'd have to wonder how something like that even got signed off on.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

The hybrid diesel Hinos we have at work at awful things. I don't actually think it's a Hino design because it's just so terrible, they recently amalgamated with Fuso so I reckon it came from them.
It weighs much heavier (500kg) than a non hybrid, and isn't any better on fuel and if anything its worse. Oh they break down all the time too
I was so hopeful it would be something as good as Toyota's petrol hybrid, but its actually embarrassingly bad.
You'd have to wonder how something like that even got signed off on.

They have some sketchy gearbox as well, where as the non hybrid model has a slushbox Allison job that actually works.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

They have some sketchy gearbox as well, where as the non hybrid model has a slushbox Allison job that actually works.

Yeah an automated manual
Hino specs say it's their design... Feels alot like the Fuso pos box.

The smaller non-hybrid Hinos have an Aisen (Toyota/Hino) torque converter auto.
The bigger stuff have Allison boxes
Both of which are great.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

How hard would it be to engineer a Monocoque Bodied Ranger?

very. that's a massive program. all new everything. the chassis is a significant load bearing member rand takes a lot of the crash load. the body itself is a bit flimsy and would need significant upgrades to be strong enough on its own.

the payload and towing largely determine the rear leaf springs, and they in turn really define the ride and handling. Note how much lower Raptor payload and towing is with coils. Truck performance comes with compromises.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by simon varley

very. that's a massive program. all new everything. the chassis is a significant load bearing member rand takes a lot of the crash load. the body itself is a bit flimsy and would need significant upgrades to be strong enough on its own.

the payload and towing largely determine the rear leaf springs, and they in turn really define the ride and handling. Note how much lower Raptor payload and towing is with coils. Truck performance comes with compromises.

People vastly underestimate the cost to develop even the smallest of changes in a car, let alone an all-new platform or model.

[.:4:.]

I know a bloke who has both an vy ss ute and an au tonner. The ss is cheaper to rego as it is classed as a car due to payload, the au costs more as its a light comercial. He doesnt ute anyways. The ss has proper suspension and other stuff in it, to make it easier to get to the shock adjusters he just took a holesaw to the tub for easy access. So it couldnt ute if it tried. Apparently it does corners though.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by simon varley

very. that's a massive program. all new everything. the chassis is a significant load bearing member rand takes a lot of the crash load. the body itself is a bit flimsy and would need significant upgrades to be strong enough on its own.

the payload and towing largely determine the rear leaf springs, and they in turn really define the ride and handling. Note how much lower Raptor payload and towing is with coils. Truck performance comes with compromises.

As an alternative,
A RHD Chinese Equator would fit the bill perfectly as a soft-roader without competing directly with Everest.

The realist in me knows that Ford could do all that and still not attract anything more than a handful of sales.