Targa rally fatalities

MercuryT · 24-04-2021, 07:52 PM

Hi all.
As a huge rally fan I'm interested to see others views.

Firstly sincere condolences to family of the 3 men deceased in Targa Tas the last two days.

Horrible as it should be an event to be remembered very differently.

Question I ask is where do we draw the line on what's acceptable?

Do we limit cars (like a Porsche GT3) to a certain driver level, do we change the rules/roads, or is it simply a risk for those who choose to enter and so be it?

Franco Cozzo · 24-04-2021, 08:13 PM

Personal responsibility IMO

It's dangerous, you sign the forms when you enter and you know.

Otherwise if too many questions are asked it'll be the end of Targa Tasmania.

Citroënbender · 24-04-2021, 08:47 PM

It’s unfortunate, but many people also say they’d like to die doing something they really enjoy. A quick rally death vs dementia or inoperable cancer?

MercuryT · 24-04-2021, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Personal responsibility IMO

It's dangerous, you sign the forms when you enter and you know.

Otherwise if too many questions are asked it'll be the end of Targa Tasmania.

Be end of all Targas Franc I know that.

Fair point as I was only asking as per my OP and in many ways I agree

Pis-ton broke · 24-04-2021, 08:54 PM

you are sounding like a bureaucrat. balls to the wall my friend, go hard or go home! don,t forget the spirit of racing.

MercuryT · 24-04-2021, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pis-ton broke

you are sounding like a bureaucrat. balls to the wall my friend, go hard or go home! don,t forget the spirit of racing.

I'm a proud Tasmanian that loves Targa.

5thFordWA · 24-04-2021, 10:27 PM

Personally, I think it's time to restrict this type of event in this day and age when everything else seems to be controlled by OH&S and safety regulations.
Yes, we all find rallying and Targa to be exciting stuff, but having very high performance cars driving around public roads with no protection from nearby trees, walls, ditches, etc, is surely asking for trouble.

I have felt this way for many years, since we had a run of racing circuits (Phillip Island for instance) being under extreme financial pressure after being forced to upgrade the safety of their facilities to retain their license, while at the same time rallying through dangerous roads with large trees a few metres away was being encouraged by the same authority (CAMS in those days).

My memories are of the Rally Australia fatality in Perth when Possum Bourne's car hit a tree killing his co-driver Roger Freeth, and then later on even Peter Brock's skills couldn't prevent a collision with a tree in a Targa event over here.

Targa events attract very high performance cars with some less than capable gentleman drivers, recipe for disaster.

Only in my opinion, maybe.
Just a different point of view from a motorsport enthusiast.

Cheers.

MercuryT · 24-04-2021, 09:41 PM

Ok.

Should a GT3 Porsche be in the hands of an amateur racer just because can afford it?

Pis-ton broke · 24-04-2021, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Ok.

Should a GT3 Porsche be in the hands of an amateur racer just because can afford it?

answer; yes

Q. are you the race police?

Franco Cozzo · 24-04-2021, 10:18 PM

Kinda like P plate vehicle restrictions, I'm against those as well.

If someone can afford it then that's their prerogative, regardless if you're a P plater or an amateur entering in Targa Tasmania - just cause you have money doesn't mean you can drive

**Rallye Sport** · 24-04-2021, 10:30 PM

I thought the P platers started off in the touring class? Restricted speeds, learning navigation and regularity before having a go flat out in your GT3.

Terrible to hear the news over the last couple of days but 'Motorsport Is Dangerous' we've all read the disclaimers on signs or entry tickets.

Franco Cozzo · 24-04-2021, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rallye Sport

I thought the P platers started off in the touring class? Restricted speeds, learning navigation and regularity before having a go flat out in your GT3.

Terrible to hear the news over the last couple of days but 'Motorsport Is Dangerous' we've all read the disclaimers on signs or entry tickets.

I'm talking about P platers in general on our roads, if they can afford it let em drive it.

There's too much wrapping people up in cotton wool in this country.

ESPJG32 · 24-04-2021, 10:41 PM

As a competitor having done 12 Targa Tas events, it is an event with higher risk level than racing at a race track, the competitors all know that.....having said that....it is a complicated event on very challenging roads and rookies don't just turn up in their Porsche and get a run....Its a sad day for the Targa community and our heart felt condolences go out to all involved....it is a very special event on very special roads

Mulva · 24-04-2021, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESPJG32

As a competitor having done 12 Targa Tas events, it is an event with higher risk level than racing at a race track, the competitors all know that.....having said that....it is a complicated event on very challenging roads and rookies don't just turn up in their Porsche and get a run....Its a sad day for the Targa community and our heart felt condolences go out to all involved....it is a very special event on very special roads

And that is what it pretty much boils down to...organisers will always do what they realistically can to make it safe, but there really isn't much they can do, and it is one of those things where competitors go in well aware of potential consequence of getting it wrong. It's similar in that way to the Isle of Man TT, where competitors know the risk and that an occasional hay bale isn't really going to make much difference.

RIP (Rest in Peace, or Rallye in Peace, I'll leave that choice to the departed)

Vesper Martini · 26-04-2021, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Ok.

Should a GT3 Porsche be in the hands of an amateur racer just because can afford it?

I haven't driven a GT3, but have driven an old RX7
despite its superior speed over the RX7 that crashed I'm almost certain the GT3 would be safer & easier to navigate a Targa.

MercuryT · 24-04-2021, 10:56 PM

GT3 is known as a track car.

Why do a Rally in it?

MercuryT · 24-04-2021, 10:58 PM

I'm all for Aust rally events don't get me wrong.

Just safety of all involved.

MercuryT · 24-04-2021, 11:18 PM

Pretty sure Paul Walker didn't expect to die.

Cars are fun but require responsibility.

Pis-ton broke · 24-04-2021, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Cars are fun but require responsibility.

are you serious? in racing terms thats a very general type statement, sorry but in racing its every man for him self. first past the finishing line wins. it can be a nasty job.

ESPJG32 · 24-04-2021, 11:48 PM

ok MercuryT so you know those roads as well....great roads but bumpy at real speed
I think it was down there that a farmer used to run the cows across the road...just near a corner...I think we had it in our pace notes as cow sh...t corner, wow it was always slippery....its not in the area where the Porsche went off today I dont think.

As a side note to the guys saying that people should have a lot of experience before going in TT.....road rallying is very different to driving race cars...I partake in both activities, my license is a Nation Circuit and a national Rally license, actually most very well known race drivers have not done well in TT....they usually go off the road because race drivers are used to committing to every corner at 10/10ths....if you want to get around TT probably 8/10ths is about as far as you should go otherwise one of those 4000 corners will get you

MercuryT · 24-04-2021, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pis-ton broke

are you serious? in racing terms thats a very general type statement, sorry but in racing its every man for him self. first past the finishing line wins. it can be a nasty job.

Very serious.

MercuryT · 24-04-2021, 11:32 PM

GT3 Porsches are "race model" for a reason.

I love Targa.

zipping · 25-04-2021, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercuryT

GT3 Porsches are "race model" for a reason.

I love Targa.

It is race model but paddle shift dual clutch gearboxes usually but some are manual.

Super quick car but assuming paddle shift should be easier to drive than a run of the mill high powered manual that is the standard in Targa and most race cars.

Terrible news to have 2 separate accidents. 80's RX7 and modern Porsche.

roddy1960 · 25-04-2021, 07:24 AM

I'm a proud Tasmanian too and love what Targa Tasmania brings to our State each year . In 2009 on an ordinary day three of my friends were on their way to Hobart for a family funeral . None of them made it home . On that same day another six Tasmanians were killed on our roads just going about normal business . They weren't racing but were still killed . It was a very black day on our roads and for no logical reason .

If you know you're racing you also must accept the risks as harsh as that might sound . Even the great racing drivers in much more regulated specific race tracks conditions are killed and they are professionals .

Not saying that nothing should be done after the past couple of days of TT but reality is that any motorsport at any level is inherently dangerous and I hope Octagon or whoever runs this amazing event will find ways to make it as safe as is realistically possible but without ruining it's fundamental aim to allow great cars to be driven as they were designed for when conditions and qualification of drivers allow .

Maybe the CAMS qualifications to compete in Targa rallies need to stiffened even further and some Targa stages are re assessed but motor sport is a big risk . So is a trip to the shops to get the carton of milk or taking the kids to school , People die on our roads every day just doing stuff like that behind the wheel and they're not even racing .

MercuryT · 24-04-2021, 11:34 PM

I grew up in Huonville and Cygnet.

Pis-ton broke · 25-04-2021, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercuryT

I grew up in Huonville and Cygnet.

maybe all a bit close to home, these deaths, i hear you. sorry.

MercuryT · 25-04-2021, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pis-ton broke

maybe all a bit close to home, these deaths, i hear you.

Yeah sorry

Pis-ton broke · 25-04-2021, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Yeah sorry

best wishes, from mick.

Pis-ton broke · 24-04-2021, 11:55 PM

racing history is very well highlighted, mans desire to win in racing, in modern history tt bike racing in the is of man is INSANE. men go to race knowing they might die. but chances are they will be fine. hey, thats racing bro.

MercuryT · 24-04-2021, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pis-ton broke

racing history is very well highlighted, mans desire to win in racing, in modern history tt bike racing in the is of man is INSANE. men go to race knowing they might die. but chances are they will be fine. hey, thats racing bro.

I don't disagree with you.

I hope the event continues despite horrible crashes.

I do however think can it be done differently?

Maybe not