Four speed to be gone in months, and 5 speed soon after

[vztrt]

Ford set to drop local four-speed auto

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2576AE00805C81

Falcon wagon set for chop as Ford goes six speed across its Aussie big-car range

18 January 2010

By JAMES STANFORD in Detroit

FORD Australia will drop its Albury-sourced four-speed automatic transmission from its locally produced models within months.

The company will also phase out five-speed automatics on its locally produced product late this year or early next year, which means all Australian-made Fords will soon run the six-speed automatics.

GoAuto can also reveal that the new Territory diesel and Falcon EcoBoost four-cylinder petrol engine will also run a six-speed automatic transmission when they arrive around mid next year, but it will be an internally-sourced gearbox and not the premium ZF transmission in the current car.

The end of the four-speed transmission is likely to signal the end of the Falcon wagon, as Ford is unlikely to upgrade the ageing BF-model to six speed.

The move to drop the four-speed automatic is a blow for Drive Systems International, which is now producing transmissions for its new Chinese parent company, Geely.

GoAuto asked Ford Australia president Marin Burela if the move away from the four and five-speed automatics to a six-speed unit would add a cost burden to the Falcon and Territory.

He said: "Here's the thing. Why do we keep moving from a four to a five to a six? One of the reasons is that it drives fuel efficiency.

"So there are many benefits of going to a six speed transmission, but I've got to tell you that the four-speed transmission we have had up until now has served us exceptionally well. The five-speed is doing a wonderful job for us."

From top: Ford's 5.0-litre Coyote V8, Ford Territory, Ford Australia president Marin Burela.

Mr Burela would not confirm an exit date for the four-speed or five-speed transmissions, but GoAuto sources claim the four-speed will not live past October when Ford will introduce a new advanced liquid injection LPG version of its six-cylinder after an upgraded version of its petrol in-line six is introduced mid-year to meet. Both upgraded engines will meet Euro 4 emissions standards.

The exact exit date of the five-speed automatic depends on supply from its French plant, but its demise is not far away. Ford Australia opted for the five-speed in-house transmission for the introduction of the 2008 FG Falcon as it was unclear if the Albury DSI plant would be able to deliver a six-speed transmission it had developed.

GoAuto understands Ford Australia was the last new customer of the Ford five-speed transmission which lives on in the soon to be replaced Ford Explorer.

The Drive Systems International Albury plant has been owned by several different companies since it started supplying Ford Australia with gearboxes back in 1971 when it was constructed by long-time owner Borg Warner.

Geely bought the operation after it slid into receivership last February after Ssangyong halted orders as a labour dispute paralysed its factories.

The four-speed automatic, which has been extensively upgraded since it was introduced with the EA II Falcon of 1989, is now used for the rear-drive Territory and all LPG Falcons and the Falcon wagon.

The Ford-sourced five-speed automatic is currently used for the base petrol Falcon and Falcon Ute.

The end of the four-speed transmission is likely to signal the end of the Falcon wagon, which was not upgraded to FG specification in 2008 and only delivers about 400 sales to Ford each month.

Mr Burela, who previously said many of the Falcon wagon customers were interested in switching to the Mondeo wagon, refused to confirm the vehicle's demise.

"Wagon has served us well, we'll make our position clear within a couple of months on what we will do with wagon," he said this week in Detroit.

Mr Burela confirmed the new liquid injection LPG six-cylinder would arrive around October, replacing the current LPG engine which will not meet Euro 4 emission standards that come into effect on July 1.

He points out that while Ford Australia is unable to continue producing non-Euro 4 engines after that date, it is able to sell them through to the end of the year.

Mr Burela confirmed Ford Australia would be able to switch over from the current LPG engine to the new version without a gap.

"I don't expect there to be any major disruption in terms of changeover," he said.

Ford is also poised to introduce a new V8 engine – the 5.0-litre Coyote – around the middle of the year. The standard Ford V8 will be naturally aspirated, while a supercharged version will be used in FPV cars.

Ford displayed the new first Coyote V8 in Detroit under the bonnet of a Mustang. The all-alloy dual-overhead camshaft engine will produce 307kW and 529Nm in the pony car, although Australian specifications are yet to be revealed.

Also on the stand at Detroit is a 6.2-litre V8 with cast iron block for its trucks which will also be available with the 5.0-litre Coyote V8.

Mr Burela confirmed the larger displacement V8 would not power the Falcon.

"We certainly don't have any plans on the 6.2. We think the 5.0-litre is the right engine at the right time that delivers the right power and torque, the right performance feel,” he said.

“It's got the right weight ratio, it packages wonderfully in the car. It has got everything that we need and want."

While Ford Australia is happy to talk about the new V8, although it won't comment on the supercharged FPV version, it is not prepared to confirm if the XR8 nameplate will continue on for another few months.

Mr Burela said: "People have asked me ‘What are you doing with XR8?’ I've said to everyone that XR8 has served us well and we will be very clear on what we are doing with XR6, XR8 as we move forward through the course of this year, probably around April May this year."

[Mr Hardware]

And taxi operators will be crying everywhere.
Yes, the 4-speed is getting long in the tooth now, but it's bloody smooth, handles good amounts of power and in BA+ guise, regularly serviced, handles half a million taxi kays with a cooler.

[Polyal]

About time, should of happened in BF2 IMO. Makes sense to have just one box.

[Swordsman88]

Nothing new here. This has been discussed before.

The only issue i have (and it could be some confusion by the journo not sure) is over the corporate 6sp. I'm sure ford can get it working to their liking no problem (they got the 5sp working) but it notes that RWD territory will get the corporate 6sp.... as will the diesel....

I was of the view that ZF would get the job with the diesel, if for no other reason then the torque rating of the corporate box was probably pegged at 400nm (for base cars). It would be easier for ford to put the performance spec high torque ZF from FPV etc. into the territory diesel then try to get the torque rating of the corporate box to suit (expected torque for the terri diesel would be 430nm if not more). Also, diesel has been in develoment for some time so i doubt the corporate box was being configured for local use that early on....

Shame to see th 4sp go after all these years but it has served us well. Hell it will continue to serve many many members of this forum for years to come.... The 5sp has had a short life, but it was due for BF at one stage but there were development delays and that is probably why.... I've driven one, and the 5sp was very good i thought. It has been winning reviews versus the VE 6sp so this new ford 6sp will just further extend their lead......

[Smoke Pursuit]

Finally ill be able to buy an XR6 ute with a 6 speed auto.... thank god!

[Dave_Obsession]

At the end of the day, the BTR 4 speeds have been fantastic, but it's time to move on.....to be honest, I'm surprised Ford have taken this long to drop the 4spd....

As far as taxis, I'm sure the 6spd will put up some pretty good numbers as far as reliability....

GoAuto asked Ford Australia president Marin Burela if the move away from the four and five-speed automatics to a six-speed unit would add a cost burden to the Falcon and Territory.

He said: "Here's the thing. Why do we keep moving from a four to a five to a six? One of the reasons is that it drives fuel efficiency.

"So there are many benefits of going to a six speed transmission, but I've got to tell you that the four-speed transmission we have had up until now has served us exceptionally well. The five-speed is doing a wonderful job for us."

Interesting to note that Burela dodged the 'cost factor' question about putting a 6spd into Falcon & Territory - instead talking up the fuel efficiency aspect...sounds like we'll be paying more for post-FG1 Falcons...

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by dave93761

Interesting to note that Burela dodged the 'cost factor' question about putting a 6spd into Falcon & Territory - instead talking up the fuel efficiency aspect...sounds like we'll be paying more for post-FG1 Falcons...

Well maybe a little but it would hardly be significant. I don't see how the corporate 6sp would cost anymore to land here then the french 5sp for instance. As for territory, well maybe there will be an end to the 'driveaway' deals on the base model XT RWD but other than that it wouldlnt be a huge price change. I think ford will get alot of existing RWD terri customers singning up to be honest to grab a new one with teh incentive of the new gearbox etc.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

Well maybe a little but it would hardly be significant. I don't see how the corporate 6sp would cost anymore to land here then the french 5sp for instance. As for territory, well maybe there will be an end to the 'driveaway' deals on the base model XT RWD but other than that it wouldlnt be a huge price change. I think ford will get alot of existing RWD terri customers singning up to be honest to grab a new one with teh incentive of the new gearbox etc.

The Corporate 6 Speed is made in America, and I am still skeptical as to whether it will appear on the Higher Spec Models, mainly because it isn't as good as the ZF, and we all know what the ZF has done for Falcon and Territory. It isn't very often that Ford goes backwards in terms of specification or technology.

I was also under the impression that the AJD-V6 came with a ZF or nothing. Why waste all that money on developing an engine for Territory and a unique transmission, when every other Longitudinal use has had it coupled with the ZF. It just seems like throwing away good money after bad.

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by Paxton

It isn't very often that Ford goes backwards in terms of specification or technology.

I wouldn't be so sure. With Ford America calling the shots and wanting to axe the falcon, they will do what they want. They will look to support local American companies and source a supplier from the US. ZF is a quality box. But if they drop it in favour of American built 6 speeds, then you know it will an inferior product compared to what the ZF is. The global platform means lower costs. I doubt they will keep using something they can get cheaper. Won't matter to them it will be poor quality.

[Road_Warrior]

Shame about the 5 speed, I quite liked it.

And if Ford dump the ZF for premium and performance applications, they have rocks in their collective heads.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Shame about the 5 speed, I quite liked it.

And if Ford dump the ZF for premium and performance applications, they have rocks in their collective heads.

Ain't that the truth. The last of the FG Falcons will be quite sought after if this is the case.

[paule11]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Shame about the 5 speed, I quite liked it.

And if Ford dump the ZF for premium and performance applications, they have rocks in their collective heads.

I agree 5 speed is good zf are excellent I cant see ford selling 2 six speed auto boxes

[R-Design]

Originally Posted by Mr Burela said:

"People have asked me ‘What are you doing with XR8?’ I've said to everyone that XR8 has served us well and we will be very clear on what we are doing with XR6, XR8 as we move forward through the course of this year, probably around April May this year."

Oh no, he's left the door open for more speculation on the XR8's future, and the XR6 this time!!!

Is he doing this just to get people to stop talking about the Falcon's future (come 2015), because it's pretty annoying?

[Fairlane]

So the five speed is dead already. Seems a bit silly.

And its about time the old 4 speed died. Its not a bad box, but 4 speeds just aint enough these days and finally those of use who like the E-gas will no longer be treated as 2nd class citizens with the old box.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Ford set to drop local four-speed auto

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2576AE00805C81

Go-Auto is a respected automotive site, but the article is written by Stanford. He often has errors in his reporting due to lack of detail or substitution of words.

Originally Posted by go auto

FORD Australia will drop its Albury-sourced four-speed automatic transmission from its locally produced models within months.

The company will also phase out five-speed automatics on its locally produced product late this year or early next year, which means all Australian-made Fords will soon run the six-speed automatics.

Half right. 6 speed = yes. Automatics = wrong. Should say six-speed transmissions.. This 6 speed move aligns with the One Ford mantra of best in class efficiency.

Originally Posted by go auto

GoAuto can also reveal that the new Territory diesel and Falcon EcoBoost four-cylinder petrol engine will also run a six-speed automatic transmission when they arrive around mid next year, but it will be an internally-sourced gearbox and not the premium ZF transmission in the current car.

Wrong. Territory diesel will use ZF 6spd. Wrong. Falcon will not use corporate automatic. It runs the corporate Powershift Dual Clutch gearbox.

Originally Posted by go auto

The end of the four-speed transmission is likely to signal the end of the Falcon wagon, as Ford is unlikely to upgrade the ageing BF-model to six speed.

Not really. Most likely is the need to upgrade the i6 to Euro 4 and fitting that newer FG engine into the wagon.

Originally Posted by go auto

Mr Burela would not confirm an exit date for the four-speed or five-speed transmissions, but GoAuto sources claim the four-speed will not live past October when Ford will introduce a new advanced liquid injection LPG version...

The contract with DSI runs out in June 2010 IIRC. They may have stock left over.

Originally Posted by go auto

Ford Australia opted for the five-speed in-house transmission for the introduction of the 2008 FG Falcon as it was unclear if the Albury DSI plant would be able to deliver a six-speed transmission it had developed.

True.

Originally Posted by go auto

The end of the four-speed transmission is likely to signal the end of the Falcon wagon, as Ford is unlikely to upgrade the ageing BF-model to six speed.

Not really. Most likely is the need to upgrade the i6 to Euro 4 and fitting that newer FG engine into the wagon.

Originally Posted by go auto

Mr Burela confirmed the new liquid injection LPG six-cylinder would arrive around October, replacing the current LPG engine which will not meet Euro 4 emission standards that come into effect on July 1.

He points out that while Ford Australia is unable to continue producing non-Euro 4 engines after that date, it is able to sell them through to the end of the year.

Interesting. Who would want one if they knew a 6spd auto LiLPG was coming the month after? Those that don't get sold will surely become demonstrators and sold cheaply.

Originally Posted by go auto

Ford is also poised to introduce a new V8 engine – the 5.0-litre Coyote – around the middle of the year. The standard Ford V8 will be naturally aspirated, while a supercharged version will be used in FPV cars.

Speculation. We know Coyote is definitely coming. Burela even says so. I personally hope for an NA XR8 / G8E / GS. Other further models up the tree to be S/C.

Originally Posted by go auto

Mr Burela said: "People have asked me ‘What are you doing with XR8?’ I've said to everyone that XR8 has served us well and we will be very clear on what we are doing with XR6, XR8 as we move forward through the course of this year, probably around April May this year."

My guess. Ahem. Possibly that the XR6 is to become the base model.

[csv8]

BMW and Benz have 8 speed slush boxes !!

[schnoods]

And i bet they sound like an opera singer practising scales ^^^.



The 4 speed has served the falcon well, though it is time to move on with the rest of the world. Still cant believe the 4spd is still available, i remember our family's shopping trolley being a EA 3 spd falcon, while the weekender was a 66 mercedes 220s with a 4 spd auto!

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by csv8

BMW and Benz have 8 speed slush boxes !!

Actually, the Benz is still only 7-speeds...

The Beemers have the brand spanking new ZF 8-speed.

The main reason I recently upgraded my XR was to get the excellent ZF autobox and now I'm wishing I had done it earlier!

It's decade's ahead of the 4-speed BTR I had, makes lightning quick shifts (quicker than the BTR with a CAPA edit!!) and holding gears in corners is just amazing!

[tommyd]

Originally Posted by phillyc

Go-Auto is a respected automotive site, but the article is written by Stanford. He often has errors in his reporting due to lack of detail or substitution of words.

Careful. I know Stanford's dad was a highly respected engineer at Ford Australia and, as such, James is quite accurate in his reporting.

The facts you've claimed are false, are in fact true.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by tommyd

Careful. I know Stanford's dad was a highly respected engineer at Ford Australia and, as such, James is quite accurate in his reporting.

Well, I have emailed Go-Auto a couple of times in the last few months to correct stuff. They have replied and changed them.

Originally Posted by tommyd

The facts you've claimed are false, are in fact true.

Well, point me in the right direction! The only thing I'm not confident on is the 'end of the wagon'. Not entirely sure that it will go. But if it is, then it won't be about losing the 4spd auto. It's most likely the whole 6spd & FG engine installation.

Personally, it is probably a good idea to keep it as it was paid off years ago. But, if line capacity is too tight. Then again, if they can maintain / increase total numbers by selling higher priced models, then this may wring out / reap more profit. Keeping it, also makes it more likely that the overall Falcon sales will grow this year.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by phillyc

Not really. Most likely is the need to upgrade the i6 to Euro 4 and fitting that newer FG engine into the wagon.

Won't happen... expect an anouncement on Wagon in the next couple of weeks.

[Bluehoon]

At the risk of a flaming, if the service costs of new engines and auto's make taxi operators cry then it's a job well done.
The sooner the taxi's move to another model, the better. It will do far more for Falcon than any marketing or sales pitch could ever do.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

At the risk of a flaming, if the service costs of new engines and auto's make taxi operators cry then it's a job well done.
The sooner the taxi's move to another model, the better. It will do far more for Falcon than any marketing or sales pitch could ever do.

Its an image Ford don't want, exactly why GP ditched the taxi pack back in the BA days.

[csv8]

Bent8..Mercedes is considering outsourcing production of transmissions for its next-gen A, B and C-class models, which could also lead to the closure of its current transmission plant in Zuffenhausen, Germany. The decision is said to be backed by CEO Dieter Zetsche, who considers the development of new transmissions as non-core to Mercedes. By outsourcing the development and manufacturing process to an outside supplier, engineers could potentially reduce costs and improvement innovation, a Mercedes insider revealed to Auto Motor und Sport.

According to the source, Mercedes is also seeking a supplier for a new eight-speed dual-clutch gearbox, giving it an edge over both Lexus and BMW who both plan to rely on fully-automatic eight-speed transmissions. A dual-clutch gearbox is better in both fuel-consumption and straight-line speed when compared with conventional autos. Mercedes is hoping that either Getrag or ZF develops and manufactures the new gearbox as designing the box itself would be too costly for the carmaker.
----------------------------------

[Bossxr8]

I'd assume Ford will be stockpiling E Gas Falcon before June to keep enough in supply until the LI versions come on line in Oct.

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by csv8

Bent8..Mercedes is considering outsourcing production of transmissions for its next-gen A, B and C-class models, which could also lead to the closure of its current transmission plant in Zuffenhausen, Germany. The decision is said to be backed by CEO Dieter Zetsche, who considers the development of new transmissions as non-core to Mercedes. By outsourcing the development and manufacturing process to an outside supplier, engineers could potentially reduce costs and improvement innovation, a Mercedes insider revealed to Auto Motor und Sport.
--
According to the source, Mercedes is also seeking a supplier for a new eight-speed dual-clutch gearbox, giving it an edge over both Lexus and BMW who both plan to rely on fully-automatic eight-speed transmissions. A dual-clutch gearbox is better in both fuel-consumption and straight-line speed when compared with conventional autos. Mercedes is hoping that either Getrag or ZF develops and manufactures the new gearbox as designing the box itself would be too costly for the carmaker.
----------------------------------

Interesting, so now it's a race to see who's got the most gears?!

Some test drivers have complained that the 7G-tronic hunts around at highway speeds. I wonder what an 8-speed will be like?...

[Fairlane]

Originally Posted by Bent8

Interesting, so now it's a race to see who's got the most gears?!

Some test drivers have complained that the 7G-tronic hunts around at highway speeds. I wonder what an 8-speed will be like?...

Well Ive driven an LS460 with the 8 speed and its totally massive overkill. I was doing 110 in it and it was still only in 6th. Never stops changing gears, it was a beautiful box but so was the old 6 speed, the 8 speed is just pointless complexity.

[xbgs351]

It is now apparent that the lifespan of a Falcon will be the same as the lifespan of the automatic transmission as reconditioning a 6 speed automatic is not going to be cheap.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by xbgs351

It is now apparent that the lifespan of a Falcon will be the same as the lifespan of the automatic transmission as reconditioning a 6 speed automatic is not going to be cheap.

I've heard about 3k for a ZF, not much more than a BTR at approx 2k.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I've heard about 3k for a ZF, not much more than a BTR at approx 2k.

Double that, and then you're close.