Xa gt-ho

[castellan]

Ausrtalian muscle car mag has out now the definitive look back at the XA GT
Not bad.
But i would say there was only one XA GT-HO ever made and the other 3 were only XA GT built up for racing and that's all they were.
A lot of bull was made of the phase 4 motor but it was tamer then the P3
All this rubbish about the so called top speed is only mainly down to diff ratio.
Bring it on.

[castellan]

Hear i put them XA GT-HO in capitals.

[pottery beige]

AMC is a mere shadow of its once great self

bottom of budgie cage poo catcher mag

[wozman]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

AMC is a mere shadow of its once great self

bottom of budgie cage poo catcher mag

Whey did they hire Paul gover he is a muppet

[HO 3]

Originally Posted by castellan

Ausrtalian muscle car mag has out now the definitive look back at the XA GT
Not bad.
But i would say there was only one XA GT-HO ever made and the other 3 were only XA GT built up for racing and that's all they were.
A lot of bull was made of the phase 4 motor but it was tamer then the P3
All this rubbish about the so called top speed is only mainly down to diff ratio.
Bring it on.

Originally Posted by BIONIC MAN

its not a hard choice... 8 cylinders and a blower from factory. tick THAT box!
I didn't think things were so bad that you would have to buy a Holden though?
::taking cover::

Yes the motors were basically the same with the head modification on the early CK617 motors fitted to the HO3s carried over to the HO4s...........if Ford Au modified a standard GT to be raced as a HO and also today recognise that car as a HO it doesn't really matter what your opinion is in the scheme of things.

Cheers Mick

[castellan]

Originally Posted by HO 3

Yes the motors were basically the same with the head modification on the early CK617 motors fitted to the HO3s carried over to the HO4s...........if Ford Au modified a standard GT to be raced as a HO and also today recognise that car as a HO it doesn't really matter what your opinion is in the scheme of things.

Cheers Mick

It's not my opinion it's a fact the 3 were just GT they came with 12 slots the HO came with mags and a plate GT-HO end of story.

If you were to buy a XW -Y GT-HO the plate tells the story that it is what it is, no one is going to pay big $ for no plate.

And any road the race cars were modded far more than the Phase 4 like panhard rod on one some have 4 bolt mains Phase 4 does not.

And all the hoo ha about the RPO83 it's just a 780 Holley and extractors and the winged sumps well who knows, some have a bigger cam some say maybe dealer fitted to you know etc.

When looking at the Holden LH torana L34 joh blow could not buy them you had to have a cams licence to get them and they came with extras in the boot. so it most likely was just people in the know who bought the RPO83 as well i don't think joh blow turns up and here we go sump exh carb no way !

[HO 3]

Originally Posted by castellan

It's not my opinion it's a fact the 3 were just GT they came with 12 slots the HO came with mags and a plate GT-HO end of story.

If you were to buy a XW -Y GT-HO the plate tells the story that it is what it is, no one is going to pay big $ for no plate.

And any road the race cars were modded far more than the Phase 4 like panhard rod on one some have 4 bolt mains Phase 4 does not.

And all the hoo ha about the RPO83 it's just a 780 Holley and extractors and the winged sumps well who knows, some have a bigger cam some say maybe dealer fitted to you know etc.

When looking at the Holden LH torana L34 joh blow could not buy them you had to have a cams licence to get them and they came with extras in the boot. so it most likely was just people in the know who bought the RPO83 as well i don't think joh blow turns up and here we go sump exh carb no way !

We'll it is your opinion and not much else..........so your logic means that if a car manufacturer plucks a specific car from a production line then sends it to its in house tuner to be massaged and fitted with a bunch of special homologation parts and then raced as that homologation special it is still in your eyes only the original donor car........this was a fairly common practice back in the day with car manufacturers both here and in the US and today these cars are recognised as the variant they became rather than the original donor car, good luck making this one fly

Cheers Mick

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by castellan

It's not my opinion it's a fact the 3 were just GT they came with 12 slots the HO came with mags and a plate GT-HO end of story.

If you were to buy a XW -Y GT-HO the plate tells the story that it is what it is, no one is going to pay big $ for no plate.

And any road the race cars were modded far more than the Phase 4 like panhard rod on one some have 4 bolt mains Phase 4 does not.

And all the hoo ha about the RPO83 it's just a 780 Holley and extractors and the winged sumps well who knows, some have a bigger cam some say maybe dealer fitted to you know etc.

When looking at the Holden LH torana L34 joh blow could not buy them you had to have a cams licence to get them and they came with extras in the boot. so it most likely was just people in the know who bought the RPO83 as well i don't think joh blow turns up and here we go sump exh carb no way !

Desirability really depends on what you like in a car?

A factory Phase 4 with a little piece of tin that says HO.

Or

A factory race prepped, blue printed, basically hand rebuilt by Ford Special Vehicles GT with factory roll cage etc.




AS for the RPO 83, you obviously have no idea.

The RPO 083 option was a "no cost" option that XA GT buyers were not told about, you just happen to get it as Ford slipped them in under the radar. Pretty well documented. So no, no-one "ordered" an RPO 083.

[bigwil]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Desirability really depends on what you like in a car?

A factory Phase 4 with a little piece of tin that says HO.

Or

A factory race prepped, blue printed, basically hand rebuilt by Ford Special Vehicles GT with factory roll cage etc.




AS for the RPO 83, you obviously have no idea.

The RPO 083 option was a "no cost" option that XA GT buyers were not told about, you just happen to get it as Ford slipped them in under the radar. Pretty well documented. So no, no-one "ordered" an RPO 083.

The factory Phase 4 with the little piece of tin anyday, my absolute dream car.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by bigwil

The factory Phase 4 with the little piece of tin anyday, my absolute dream car.

If I had to choose I'd struggle, but I might go for the green car too...only because of the sunroof...

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Desirability really depends on what you like in a car?

A factory Phase 4 with a little piece of tin that says HO.

Or

A factory race prepped, blue printed, basically hand rebuilt by Ford Special Vehicles GT with factory roll cage etc.




AS for the RPO 83, you obviously have no idea.

The RPO 083 option was a "no cost" option that XA GT buyers were not told about, you just happen to get it as Ford slipped them in under the radar. Pretty well documented. So no, no-one "ordered" an RPO 083.

Lets say i bought a XA GT back in 1972 and just did my own work to it or any other car say and made it better ? only people who knew what was done was benerficial as to making it a better car would maybe pay the extra for the car when it comes to selling it.
Or we have a genuine XY GT-HO and a mock HO but fact is the mock is the latest tec and a far better car to drive etc. the original is still worth more.

Cars one two and three are race cars not a Phase 4 at all just GT with bits of this and bits of that, not even original.

As for the RPO 83 people did know and some did not and that has been documented. but fact is i could stick a 780 and extractors to a XA GT as well and that don't make it worth the dollars some clowns make out, it's the same thing.

Back in 1972 one could buy a XA GT then get the engine worked to HO spec or more better brakes etc even your local ford dealer could do it for you if you wanted to fork out to do it. so you come into the dealer crying the HO is dead i can't get what i wanted. then a informed dealer informs you patting you on the back we can make you one bro ! it's not that hard to do.

Fact is genune matching number cars is where the bullshit stops.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by castellan

Lets say i bought a XA GT back in 1972 and just did my own work to it or any other car say and made it better ? only people who knew what was done was benerficial as to making it a better car would maybe pay the extra for the car when it comes to selling it.
Or we have a genuine XY GT-HO and a mock HO but fact is the mock is the latest tec and a far better car to drive etc. the original is still worth more.

Cars one two and three are race cars not a Phase 4 at all just GT with bits of this and bits of that, not even original.

As for the RPO 83 people did know and some did not and that has been documented. but fact is i could stick a 780 and extractors to a XA GT as well and that don't make it worth the dollars some clowns make out, it's the same thing.

Back in 1972 one could buy a XA GT then get the engine worked to HO spec or more better brakes etc even your local ford dealer could do it for you if you wanted to fork out to do it. so you come into the dealer crying the HO is dead i can't get what i wanted. then a informed dealer informs you patting you on the back we can make you one bro ! it's not that hard to do.

Fact is genune matching number cars is where the bullshit stops.

This kind of reminds of when the car in front of me goes around a roundabout a few times before choosing an exit.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by castellan

Lets say i bought a XA GT back in 1972 and just did my own work to it or any other car say and made it better ? only people who knew what was done was benerficial as to making it a better car would maybe pay the extra for the car when it comes to selling it.
Or we have a genuine XY GT-HO and a mock HO but fact is the mock is the latest tec and a far better car to drive etc. the original is still worth more.

Cars one two and three are race cars not a Phase 4 at all just GT with bits of this and bits of that, not even original.

As for the RPO 83 people did know and some did not and that has been documented. but fact is i could stick a 780 and extractors to a XA GT as well and that don't make it worth the dollars some clowns make out, it's the same thing.

Back in 1972 one could buy a XA GT then get the engine worked to HO spec or more better brakes etc even your local ford dealer could do it for you if you wanted to fork out to do it. so you come into the dealer crying the HO is dead i can't get what i wanted. then a informed dealer informs you patting you on the back we can make you one bro ! it's not that hard to do.

Fact is genune matching number cars is where the bullshit stops.

how many genuine matching numbers GTs do you own

[zoesgift]

Originally Posted by castellan

It's not my opinion it's a fact the 3 were just GT they came with 12 slots the HO came with mags and a plate GT-HO end of story.

If you were to buy a XW -Y GT-HO the plate tells the story that it is what it is, no one is going to pay big $ for no plate.

And any road the race cars were modded far more than the Phase 4 like panhard rod on one some have 4 bolt mains Phase 4 does not.

And all the hoo ha about the RPO83 it's just a 780 Holley and extractors and the winged sumps well who knows, some have a bigger cam some say maybe dealer fitted to you know etc.

When looking at the Holden LH torana L34 joh blow could not buy them you had to have a cams licence to get them and they came with extras in the boot. so it most likely was just people in the know who bought the RPO83 as well i don't think joh blow turns up and here we go sump exh carb no way !

look you are entitled to your own opinion and I don't think there is any doubt that the reason for this thread is inflammatory hence the use of in your opening post. from previous posts you seem to have read many books/magazines about ford and its motors hence your previous threads and the interest you have in casting dates etc. im surprised about your reference to winged sumps in the rpo its extremely unlikely any rpos got these which if you are into amc you should be aware of. SOME of the people replying here have lived through the era owned and still own the cars and seen documented many of them in their unrestored state. I have not seen anything posted by you to indicate you have at least documented proof of some of your claims otherwise we will continue to dance around the same mulberry bush. your post should have been started in the muscle car boom in order for you to get the responses you wish for. back then there were many more people on aff willing to comment constructively and in many cases get actual answers....I think the true answers are what you are REALLY after but you like to stir the pot as a means of getting to them!

[castellan]

Originally Posted by zoesgift

look you are entitled to your own opinion and I don't think there is any doubt that the reason for this thread is inflammatory hence the use of in your opening post. from previous posts you seem to have read many books/magazines about ford and its motors hence your previous threads and the interest you have in casting dates etc. im surprised about your reference to winged sumps in the rpo its extremely unlikely any rpos got these which if you are into amc you should be aware of. SOME of the people replying here have lived through the era owned and still own the cars and seen documented many of them in their unrestored state. I have not seen anything posted by you to indicate you have at least documented proof of some of your claims otherwise we will continue to dance around the same mulberry bush. your post should have been started in the muscle car boom in order for you to get the responses you wish for. back then there were many more people on aff willing to comment constructively and in many cases get actual answers....I think the true answers are what you are REALLY after but you like to stir the pot as a means of getting to them!

The purpose is to debate.
If someone is serious they look into things in depth, now look at detective Lt Columbo he has to go through procedures to find out the truth the best he can. but some people have superficial interest and that's fine because most are like that.
But i am not superficial in my interest and search for the facts and truth and the fact is I never was ever superficial.
I love the 1969 to when perky won bathurst in the holden powered car but from then on i have no interest in what they were doing as to me that's got nothing to do with Fords and holdens at all so you can't debate because there is nothing to debate as they are not holdens and fords at all.
I loved them days going to the races and the passion that people had for the battle was fantastic you would see the fur fly waving their arms around jumping up and down swearing and abusing you because you were on the opposing team. it was great ! so i am only in my 50's bro and i know the cars when they were like new you know.

[nstg8a]

I'd normally agree on the whole 'there's only one true XA HO, but I also respect the intelligence of others as well, and when you see someone like the Bowden's prepared to invest heavily in the uncomplianced HO's, well I will go with their judgement on this one.

[Pinkbits]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

I'd normally agree on the whole 'there's only one true XA HO, but I also respect the intelligence of others as well, and when you see someone like the Bowden's prepared to invest heavily in the uncomplianced HO's, well I will go with their judgement on this one.

You've hit the nail on the head, "uncomplianced".
The only reason the 3 are/were so valuable is they were BUILT by special vehicles for racing to GTHO specs before the program was scrapped.

[anto]

cool story

[BENT_8]

Ahh, its moments like this that remind me of 4Vman.
Damn I wish he would come back, it would be set straight in minutes.

For mine, I believe there is only 1 XA GTHO, because that's what left the factory.
Do the 3 race prepped cars count, most certainly, but only as that, race prepped GT's of a stalled programme.

Would I chose between the two, nope, id gladly have either or both.
Each one of them has a place in Australian automotive folklore.

Im sure the Bowdens would cherish the opportunity to display the compliance XA HO in their museum and I bet 'The Dentist' would love a hot lap of Mt Panorama in the race version.

For us mere mortals its just comforting to know that people recognise the significance that these vehicles play in history and have taken responsibility of maintaining them.
Just be thankful for all.

[castellan]

I have to only gen Phase 5 XB GT-HO Hardtop ?

Now let see i wonder what they would of been like if for real if i had some sway at ford aus.
The last of the 4V engines ended in 1974 i have a 19/11/1974 4V head down as being cast then. so we could of got this engine if it were not for all the histeriour of the so called rocketships 170 mph bull idiots went on with.

It most likely would be an open chamber 4V heads so lower comp maybe a cobra jet engine or HO ? with more comp then our USA boys 7.9:1 that would be easy but the cam would maybe the good old USA 1972-4 HO solid and that with 4 bolt mains ? not bad performer. maybe just maybe we could of had enought to last until the much loved ADR27A in the XC.

The XC 5.8L could of had a bit bigger cam in the Cobra as the yanks could do it with their emission laws. our better leaded fuel with more compression even at 8.9:1 is better than the yanks even if we ran 2V heads and extractors she would poke along better to hose off them holdens and keep the same thing with the XD and the XE could of got aussie 4 bolt mains.

I think the Phase would of ended with the XB then the Cobra with the XC then the ESP with the XD-E or would it be Cobra HO then ESP-HO

[RedHotGT]

Originally Posted by castellan

I have to only gen Phase 5 XB GT-HO Hardtop ?

You mean these ones??



This subject always intrigues me... The facts are the facts, and they've been documented and brought up so many times it is actually hard to believe....

What about the 'Phantom' GT-HO cars that Ford produced? Cars that rolled down the production line, have compliance plates and 54H body, everything checks out, and yet Ford themselves have no record what so ever of the cars being produced? I suppose they are not 'original' or 'genuine' even though they certainly exist.

What about the export cars like the South African XY GT-HO Phase III (yes I said GT-HO not GT... If you don't know about it then do some more homework) they are as 'original' and 'genuine' as all the others.

How about Bill Bourke's one-off masterpieces (XR, XT, XW) ?? Or his Australian Delivered Mustang Fastback GT that nobody knows about?? Or Wayne Drapers big block coupes?? The list goes on.

There were lots of examples of unusual cars that left the factory, lot 6, and other 'sections' of Ford.... some were more official than others...

And this is where provable history is paramount when people make claims to the origin of vehicles.

In any case, the discussion lives on and I'm sure we'll be here again some time soon..........

[zoesgift]

nice pics but I thought the thread was about the "validity" of the 3 non complianced xa prototypes and whether they should be considered phase fours....

[Blue Roo]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Ahh, its moments like this that remind me of 4Vman.
Damn I wish he would come back, it would be set straight in minutes.

What we need is to get the Legendary 4V man and the Editor of Street Fords Roy Velardi together on this subject.

[bigwil]

Originally Posted by Blue Roo

What we need is to get the Legendary 4V man and the Editor of Street Fords Roy Velardi together on this subject.

Agree 100% Roy did a brillant job with all the research and tracing all the previous owners on the only plated XAGTHO. So good I bought 5 copies of each issue of street fords that contained the Phase 4.

[HP-0351]

Originally Posted by bigwil

Agree 100% Roy did a brillant job with all the research and tracing all the previous owners on the only plated XAGTHO. So good I bought 5 copies of each issue of street fords that contained the Phase 4.

Cheers

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Blue Roo

What we need is to get the Legendary 4V man and the Editor of Street Fords Roy Velardi together on this subject.

I reckon it might look like this if you do

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfQZ1zGvnhc

[Blue Roo]

Originally Posted by stefan

i reckon it might look like this if you do

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfqz1zgvnhc

lol!!!

[HP-0351]

Originally Posted by stefan

i reckon it might look like this if you do

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfqz1zgvnhc

lol

[Paull]

Originally Posted by Blue Roo

What we need is to get the Legendary 4V man and the Editor of Street Fords Roy Velardi together on this subject.

Bring back the smiley/rep points and Norm might come back

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Paull

Bring back the smiley/rep points and Norm might come back

And Flappist...