When is it too much?

[Patty]

Hi All,

I'm a keen reader of Motor and Wheels and I like to keep up with the latest car trends etc. But one thing that is troubling me slightly is the fact that car makers are bringing out gearboxes with more and more gears.

10 years ago a 6 spd auto was the best, then the German companies started with Dual clutch, 7, then 8, and now I read that even Ford are going to put their 10spd design in the mustang.

Now hear me out, I understand the extra ratios improve efficiency, and keep the cars within the optimum torque band. But hear lies the question. At what point will it effect the way the car feels behind the wheel? The way we feel the acceleration? I love driving around my old man's GT 6 spd in manual mode and it feels just right. The gears hold long enough to enjoy hearing the engine wind out, you hit redline at 6000 rpm in second, change to 3rd and it goes back down to 3000rpm or so and climbs back up. But if it were a 10spd, wouldn't you always be hovering between 5000-6000 rpm and not feeling the acceleration in the same way? Does that make sense?

My Mum has an audi with an 8spd and yeh it feels zippy but I find it frustrating how often it changes gear and to me it just doesn't feel right to me. It's not fun.

Does anyone catch my drift. At what point are we putting efficiency over fun?

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Patty

At what point are we putting efficiency over fun?

I'd say around about 1980

[Patty]

Originally Posted by simon varley

I'd say around about 1980

To clarify, I was talking mainly about sports cars. I understand the average Camry, Mondeo will have 8-10 spd auto as standard in the next 10 years but it does surprise me that for performance cars we are getting more and more gears. I could be totally wrong here though....

[stig_3754]

These cars tend to have paddle shifters or some form of 'manual mode' so you can hold the gears for as long as you want on spirited drives anyway.

[Sabantien]

My girlfriend has an Audi with 7 or 8 gears or whatever, and it's smooth enough I don't notice the gear changes in normal driving, and when you put your foot down it holds the gear plenty long. Slip it into sports mode and it's constantly high revving and pretty much doesn't get past third.

The extra gears at the top end such as in the 10 speed Ford are putting into the Mustang have a number of overdrive gears, I don't think it'll affect the sort of driving you're talking about at all.

CVT is probably more what you're worried about.

[ebv8]

my bro's pajero sport is an 8 speeder and i can't feel it change, its always ready to go too as it has a small power band and the 8 speed helps keep it on torque.
i couldn't image an 8 speed in my GT, i love the feel of it winding out

p.s. i don't think any mustang or that type of car should have an auto at all, it maybe faster and smoother but i'd prefer to drive a car not steer a car....just my 2c

[FPV6]

Originally Posted by ebv8

my bro's pajero sport is an 8 speeder and i can't feel it change, its always ready to go too as it has a small power band and the 8 speed helps keep it on torque.
i couldn't image an 8 speed in my GT, i love the feel of it winding out

p.s. i don't think any mustang or that type of car should have an auto at all, it maybe faster and smoother but i'd prefer to drive a car not steer a car....just my 2c

Yes and no for me not with modern Auto and paddle shifts and double clutched boxes and lighting gear changes

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by ebv8

p.s. i don't think any mustang or that type of car should have an auto at all, it maybe faster and smoother but i'd prefer to drive a car not steer a car....just my 2c

Lucky you don't manufacture cars, you'd go broke very quick.

I think you can enjoy driving a car without a manual option. Certainly Lamborghini and Bugatti think so, with no manual options even available, also the GTR Skyline is the same. All drivers cars.

[ebv8]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Lucky you don't manufacture cars, you'd go broke very quick.

I think you can enjoy driving a car without a manual option. Certainly Lamborghini and Bugatti think so, with no manual options even available, also the GTR Skyline is the same. All drivers cars.

yes lucky.
all those drivers cars are built to be the quickest possible and you would probably have trouble navigating a gear stick while going that fast.
i'm just talking about the bread and butter performance cars like GT's, Mustang and Clubsports, they sell mainly auto's but it kind of defeats the purpose of the car. I wouldn't even consider having my GT in auto but thats just me and i'm an individual.

also i'm happy for base models to be auto its just the all out GT350/500 should be a manual even if its slower on the track

[FPV6]

Originally Posted by ebv8

yes lucky.
all those drivers cars are built to be the quickest possible and you would probably have trouble navigating a gear stick while going that fast.
i'm just talking about the bread and butter performance cars like GT's, Mustang and Clubsports, they sell mainly auto's but it kind of defeats the purpose of the car. I wouldn't even consider having my GT in auto but thats just me and i'm an individual.

also i'm happy for base models to be auto its just the all out GT350/500 should be a manual even if its slower on the track

You do realise that the auto is a more expensive options and who is going to want manual if its slower around the track

beside its an auto in manual mode

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by ebv8

my bro's pajero sport is an 8 speeder and i can't feel it change, its always ready to go too as it has a small power band and the 8 speed helps keep it on torque.
i couldn't image an 8 speed in my GT, i love the feel of it winding out

p.s. i don't think any mustang or that type of car should have an auto at all, it maybe faster and smoother but i'd prefer to drive a car not steer a car....just my 2c

Part of the mustangs success has been that its a car for every one, including the 3 speed auto backed 2.8l found in the first mustang generation.

[triples]

Originally Posted by ebv8

p.s. i don't think any mustang or that type of car should have an auto at all, it maybe faster and smoother but i'd prefer to drive a car not steer a car....just my 2c

The world's becoming (mostly) lazy.
I've been looking for a new work van, and can't get what I want in a MANual.
Go figure.
What happened to the hard core tradie that would work all winter in shorts and tshirts. Seems their just soft cocks that want to sip their skinny latte and cruise an auto on the way to site now a days.

Times are changing.

[poppa smurf]

I remember when a four speed was something to brag about....beat the hell out if the old two speed auto.

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

I remember when a four speed was something to brag about....beat the hell out if the old two speed auto.

I still remember fondly my old 3 spd column shift falcon

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by The Yeti

I still remember fondly my old 3 spd column shift falcon

ah! the "three on the tree"....... I thought the pushbutton auto on the dash of AP.5/6 was a modern marvel.

[GREGL]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

ah! the "three on the tree "....... I thought the pushbutton auto on the dash of AP.5/6 was a modern marvel.

You forgot, no syncho on 1st gear. 90% of the population would not be able to drive one today whilst doing their makeup. It is a little known fact that the term ****** originally was uttered by a person waiting behind a young fella driving a crash box, they could see his arm frantically trying to get 1st.

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

I remember when a four speed was something to brag about....beat the hell out if the old two speed auto.

Nothing more exciting than driving a 110HP 6cylinder with a two speed auto ..
You pull out to pass someone on 100kmh road and you'd better be sure the road is clear because you ain't going to get any kickdown to help with acceleration ..

[FPV6]

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

Nothing more exciting than driving a 110HP 6cylinder with a two speed auto ..
You pull out to pass someone on 100kmh road and you'd better be sure the road is clear because you ain't going to get any kickdown to help with acceleration ..

or 351 with C6 3 speed clicking the shifter forward thing there gotta be another gear there

[Raptor]

It's just getting you used to the coming (or here now really) electric cars, yes even for sports/performance driving.

Don't worry, they won't have any gears


But for internal combustion engines I think when they went from 5 to 6 (6th being an extra tall overdrive for economy) it was probably too many





.

[FPV6]

Funny this discussion come up i was cruising the other night in my sprint 8

and rolled up to a set of lights (no I didn't drag on public roads) but besides me was a Merc C63 a new one to. As we took off my gears felt like CVT where as this car beside was like blah change gear blah change gear blah change gear 3 gear changes and we didn't even cross the intersection we roll up to the next set of lights he hits it well let me tell you now i know why the invented rev limiters

[thefargo]

who remembers the Preston. No gears just a very torquey helicopter engine.

[BradEL]

CVT ftw

[Bluehoon]

10 speed auto in a mustang?

Well, hairdressers need bragging rights too you know....

[Crazy Dazz]

With 8 gears, it might as well be a CVT.

The thing that concerns me, is what happens when they brake? Is it going to be worth fixing them?

[cycle myth]

Yeah - I used to think this too.

With the superb 6 speed auto in the Falcon I thought why would you want any more and if you did why would you pay much more for it.

I'm driving an 8 speed auto now and I understand why - just fantastic.

Can barely feel it change, and when needed can wring out the gears like you want to.

I can't think of why you would want any more than 8 or why you would want to pay much more for it.....

Looking forward to a 9 or 10 speed.

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

With 8 gears, it might as well be a CVT.

The thing that concerns me, is what happens when they brake? Is it going to be worth fixing them?

Nope. (assuming you meant break) Current 6 speeds are around $1000 a gear to repair??
What will a 10 speed cost? $15,000 or more would be my guess.

I have a 24 speed auto in my truck. Yet only ever use 6.
It was designed to pull loads in excess of 300t.

It seems to me that today, people will always equate more as being better.

Only true when talking cylinders.

[Joel.]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

Nope. (assuming you meant break) Current 6 speeds are around $1000 a gear to repair??
What will a 10 speed cost? $15,000 or more would be my guess.

Not sure about Ford gearboxes but the 6 speed auto in dads old '06 VW transporter was a bit over $6000 to repair. I would really hate to need a 10 speed rebuilding.

[Matty4]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

The thing that concerns me, is what happens when they brake? Is it going to be worth fixing them?

My guess is they'll just slow down and eventually come to a stop. No need to fix them.

[poppa smurf]

yeah! needed guts back then, but there again the road was a lot less travelled......them's were the days.....basically no speed limit that I can recall being policed, narrow gutted, crossply tyres, drum brakes, two ton behemoths that took arms like a wharfy to hold onto the road, no seat belts, solid steel dash, solid steering column.

pocket full of money and a gut full of grog and a sheila on our arm right next to us in our bench seat......soft mob nowadays with their 6 and 8 gear plush limo's.......mind you, breakdowns were not so often and often as not a roadside fix.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

yeah! needed guts back then, but there again the road was a lot less travelled......them's were the days.....basically no speed limit that I can recall being policed, narrow gutted, crossply tyres, drum brakes, two ton behemoths that took arms like a wharfy to hold onto the road, no seat belts, solid steel dash, solid steering column.

pocket full of money and a gut full of grog and a sheila on our arm right next to us in our bench seat......soft mob nowadays with their 6 and 8 gear plush limo's.......mind you, breakdowns were not so often and often as not a roadside fix.

Such good memories, I do miss them days.

Cheers