Coming out of the closet.

[SDKC]

In light of my purchase of an ED and recent events, I figure that I’m going to be hanging around for a while. I thought after reading the 26th of Jan cruise thread, and everyone’s happiness with the way the cops treated you (apart from one so it seems), I thought it was time to come out of the closet and let you all know my job.

I’m doing this thread because of the recent events and media hype over shall we say over zealous drivers. I’m not going to use the word “hoon” because it is a media term, much like “road rage”. I hate that phrase as well.

I like most coppers are just people, doing the job that we chose to do, and like most people we like to be treated the same way as you would like yourself to be treated.

The number one thing that gets drivers into trouble when I pull them over is not loud exhausts, big rims, low clearance, or dark tinting. It is driver attitude. I don't care if you don't respect the law or the police in reality. Make me believe you do when I intercept you and you have a much greater chance of leaving with a lecture and a warning. There is hardly ever a situation where I have decided that someone is getting a ticket when I pull them over, except when it is painfully obvious they are being disrespectful in their driving in front of me.

A few tips on what not to do when I pull you over: (I obviously can’t speak for all the coppers out there and I’m sure that I am not the only copper on these forums but;)

- Don't call me "mate". I do not know you and we are not mates.
- Don't call me a patronizing "sir". That's a bigger mistake than thinking I am your mate.
- Especially don’t call me “brother”
- Don't get out of your car, that puts me on the defensive straight away. I don't know if you are planning on assaulting me, running away, or even trying to get in front of traffic to commit suicide.
- Don't argue the toss with me. Even if you don't necessarily agree, admit you stuffed up and you are sorry and I am more likely to give you a warning. Even if you end up getting a ticket, you can argue the matter in court. It's not going to change my mind on the night and I am not going to take the ticket back because you are complaining or think that I am wrong.
- If you are going to tell me that you have a mate/family member/long lost cousin that is a copper, make sure you can back it up. Chances are I’m not going to know this person, so I’m going to want to speak with him/her. In my experience the coppers that I have contacted have told me to book them to teach their mate/family member/long lost cousin a lesson.
- Don't tell me I should be out catching real criminals instead of picking on you driving your car home. Road related deaths and accidents cost the community more than all other crime combined. More people die on the roads than get murdered each year. Do not think you know my job and what I am best spending my time doing better than I do.
- Don't hang around Noble Park McDonald's or any other place with a large bunch of dickheads. Just like all cops look the same in their car and uniform to you, most cars and drivers in that environment look the same to us. It's unfortunate, but it is human nature to generalise and stereotype to an extent.

Random facts:

- Fog lights are not illegal as long as they are white or yellow, are on a separate switch to the regular headlights, and are not aimed higher than the regular low beam headlights.
- If you choose to have neon lights or whatever they are on your windscreen washers, do not have red. Red is the only colour that is not allowed as red could be construed as brake lights and could cause an accident.
- It doesn't matter whether the light you just went through was red or amber. It wasn't green and that means you can get a ticket for it.
- I don't need to have a radar or laser if I am following behind you to estimate your speed and charge you for it.

Any other questions I might be able to help you with feel free to ask. I have “come out of the closet” to help as I am mechanically illiterate and this is a way for me to contribute. I’m not suggesting that I am an expert, but I am in the right position to be able to answer any questions about the law side of things. If I can’t answer your question, I have the resources to find out.

Or if you want to just flame me, my occupation, and my posts, go for it too chances are I’ve heard it all before.

:

[[Tonko]]

Well, i will be the first to commend you on this, and as you say, your just doing your job. Ive got nothing but praise for the police, they have helped me many-a-time,
as you said, every person is different and there are *******s in every profession, even in yours... the only ones i know of are the charming TOG from epping that visit us for springnats...



oh, by the way, u know my mates girlfriends cousins neighbour? hes really high up in melbourne somewhere? (J/K) i bet you get that alot!

[Grechie]

welcome to the forums!!

i have PM'd you with some questions i hope you didnt mind ... thanks!

[kyro_02]

Welcome to the forums SDKC, (I had a hunch you'd be in that field too) -- just one of those random 'Ah this person would probably be in this field' etc. :P

There is another officer on this forum, not sure of any more?

[Christiaan]

Those tips are useless, because you won't pull over anybody in an e-series? Why do we need tips? ;)

[SDKC]

Originally Posted by shuresm58

Those tips are useless, because you won't pull over anybody in an e-series? Why do we need tips? ;)

Ah yes, but if you are in my patch, you will be pulled over so I can have a meet and greet and a look at your car. (All good looks! )

[Harro]

Originally Posted by SDKC

- Don't call me "mate". I do not know you and we are not mates.
- Don't call me a patronizing "sir". That's a bigger mistake than thinking I am your mate.

Damn, I usualy call officers Sir to begin with, and then mate or champ at the end

Oh and thanks for the facts and the insight of an officer!

Cheers

[SDKC]

Originally Posted by Harro

Damn, I usualy call officers Sir to begin with, and then mate or champ at the end

Oh and thanks for the facts and the insight of an officer!

Cheers

That's fine at the end of the intercept, we are all different people, once you have established a rapport with the copper, and you feel that you can call him champ, buddy, mate at the end, then cool.

There are some coppers that really just hate it.

[89 S-PACK]

welcome to the fourums!!!!

[DOC]

SDKC, Welcome along, a good read, as with Harro's question, i would like to ask if this is not what to say, perhaps you could give some clues as to what to say.

From Old school i was taught to respect my elders and those around me and was taught it was polite to say Sir, in fact i often copped a clip around the ears from my father if i did not use this term and was taught to me as a sign of respect, which leaves me puzzled as to why it would be deemed bad when the person using it only has intent on being polite and respectful.

Pete

- Don't call me "mate". I do not know you and we are not mates.
- Don't call me a patronizing "sir". That's a bigger mistake than thinking I am your mate.
- Especially don’t call me “brother”

[SDKC]

Originally Posted by DOC

From Old school i was taught to respect my elders and those around me and was taught it was polite to say Sir, in fact i often copped a clip around the ears from my father if i did not use this term and was taught to me as a sign of respect, which leaves me puzzled as to why it would be deemed bad when the person using it only has intent on being polite and respectful.

Pete

Sir is ok, it's the patronizing sir, kind of like a sarcastic sir. It is difficult. As I've said, all coppers are different. I'm not TOG (or TMU now) but I have done temps at the TMU. Some of those guys are out to get you. My father was a TOG Sgt for 20 years and when I was on my 'P's' and not a copper, he would tell me that if I ********d up in his patch, he would book me.

I tell my mates, to just respect. You don't have to go over the top with yes sir...no sir...three bags full sir, just answer everything put to you honestly. (Unless you have really screwed up and you get cautioned: eg "I must inform you that you are not obliged to say or do anything but anything you say or do may be given in evidence...") then you don't have to answer any questions.

As you have said, be polite.

[DOC]

Originally Posted by SDKC

As you have said, be polite.

And I'm guessing that's why i dont have any drama's.

With your ride and stuff hope it all comes together for you, and the forum rules are that, any new coppers are placed in charge of the donut supply at the next drag day, as this role needs some one who can keep the rif raf away from the prized possesions and important things on the day.

Cheers
Pete

[EA2BA]

- Fog lights are not illegal as long as they are white or yellow, are on a separate switch to the regular headlights, and are not aimed higher than the regular low beam headlights.

What section can I quote in relation to this, and is this only in relation to factory fitted or do aftermarket also fall under the same rules.

[SDKC]

Originally Posted by EA2BA

What section can I quote in relation to this, and is this only in relation to factory fitted or do aftermarket also fall under the same rules.

Fog lights fall under the Australian Design Rules, if you get a "canary" then the main thing that is written next to the problem is does not comply with ADR's. Then it is up to you to get the car checked by a qualified person and have it signed off as ADR compliant.

ADR50 states front fog lamps must provide adequate illimunation for the driver of the vehicle without producing undue glare for other road users.

So in essence, it is a coppers interpretation of this. What filters down from above to us actually out on the road is this is the standard. ie: must be white/yellow and on a seperate switch. The main part is that they do not dazzle other cars, much like driving with high beam on with other cars around.

[Poetic Justice]

Thanks for making yourself known.

I think it's great that we can have police presence on forums as I believe the E-series owners club as well as VicStreetScene both do not condone bad behaviour and would prefer to have the respect from the police for what we're doing.

Problem is, however, regardless if you tell us something is legal and we haven't done anything wrong, alot of the time TMU/TOG will still bust people for something that may not be illegal. The washer jet neons are a prime example as I have witnessed numerous cops telling people off for them regardless of the colour.

I accept that cops have a job to do and as a result of incidences and goings on like Noble Park make younger people driving hotter cars (lucky for me I'm off my P's on my v8) a target. I would just appreciate consistency with what you have said in regards to attitude. Everytime I've ever been pulled over (which I could count on one hand) I've always tried to be 100% co-operative and nice, but god forbid the officer you land yourself with is in a bad mood, or an "i hate hoons" mood because I could be the nicest bloke in the world to him and he'll still pre-judge.

It's just unfortunate that some cops will see me driving a 96 V8 Fairmont with 18" wheels and automatically pin me with all the other idiot VLT or import drivers that are out there...

[El_Poochino]

I do have some questions regarding interstate laws. The woman at the RTA wasn't very helpful.

I am a Victorian P plater.

NSW has a new law for P Plates comming in, you have to display your P plates on the outside of the car. Now do I, when in NSW, have to display VICTORIAN P plates on the outside, NSW GREEN plates on the outside (as I have held my Ps for over 1 year I am assuming I am the equivilent of a P2), or just continue displaying my Victorian Ps as normal, on the window?

Also, the speed limit for P plates in NSW. Do I obey the 100km limit for P platers or can I do 110km when I am on a freeway in NSW?

I don't know how much you could help me, but any would be great. The woman at the RTA asked the bloke next to her then everytime I asked she just said 'obey NSW laws'. To the point where I am supposed to display the NSW P plates when I am in NSW otherwise I could get done for not displaying a P plate (even with a correctly displayed Vic P plate)..

Just want an officers insight, seeing you guys enforce it.

[ORSM4L]

Originally Posted by SDKC

I like most coppers are just people, doing the job that we chose to do, and like most people we like to be treated the same way as you would like yourself to be treated.

Originally Posted by SDKC

- Don't call me "mate". I do not know you and we are not mates.

I'm not trying to have a dig, but in my opinion you are sounding a little hypocritical.

If I were to treat you the same way I treat the rest of the community I would most probably greet you with "how ya going mate". I have never come across someone who has taken offence to being called 'mate'.
I have had very few encounters with the Police, none of which have been unpleasant. I try not to put myself in that position, but on the rare occasion it has happened I cop it on the chin.
I have, and will always co-operate with, and respect someone in a position of authority, be it my boss, my parents or a Police officer.
I don't believe calling someone 'mate' is disrespectful.

But that's just me, I guess everyone is different.


Welcome to the forums. Hope to have a chat at a cruise one day.


Cheers
Simon

[SDKC]

Originally Posted by El_Poochino

I do have some questions regarding interstate laws. The woman at the RTA wasn't very helpful.

I am a Victorian P plater.

NSW has a new law for P Plates comming in, you have to display your P plates on the outside of the car. Now do I, when in NSW, have to display VICTORIAN P plates on the outside, NSW GREEN plates on the outside (as I have held my Ps for over 1 year I am assuming I am the equivilent of a P2), or just continue displaying my Victorian Ps as normal, on the window?

Also, the speed limit for P plates in NSW. Do I obey the 100km limit for P platers or can I do 110km when I am on a freeway in NSW?

I don't know how much you could help me, but any would be great. The woman at the RTA asked the bloke next to her then everytime I asked she just said 'obey NSW laws'. To the point where I am supposed to display the NSW P plates when I am in NSW otherwise I could get done for not displaying a P plate (even with a correctly displayed Vic P plate)..

Just want an officers insight, seeing you guys enforce it.

This one not so sure as different states have slightly varying rules.

As far as I am aware, you drive to the conditions of your Victorian licence. Display your Victorian 'P' plates and drive at the limits that you are set for a Victorian probationary licence.

A NSW probationary driver would drive to the conditions of their NSW licence in Victoria.

[El_Poochino]

Originally Posted by SDKC

This one not so sure as different states have slightly varying rules.

As far as I am aware, you drive to the conditions of your Victorian licence. Display your Victorian 'P' plates and drive at the limits that you are set for a Victorian probationary licence.

A NSW probationary driver would drive to the conditions of their NSW licence in Victoria.

Thanks,

I've been asking around and have had diffrent answers from the NSW boys in blue(for the speed limit). It's easy to play it safe with the speed. But playing it safe with the P plates would make my car look pretty poxy, adorned with 15 diffrent P plates.

[frost]

Im not going to flame you, but you must admit some cops out there a pure Aholes.

Recently I moved to down the coast, iv been pulled over 16 times over a period of 6 weeks now. twice iv been pulled over 3 times a night. One copper stated its because I'm in a commodore town and I'm the only XR6 Driving around. A few weeks ago I was pulled over by the same copper twice and his story hadn't changed it was "random breathtest and license check". It gets rather annoying and I havn't been down in town at night for a few weeks because of this.

I know there are good cops out there, I know a few off this forum, and one of my best mates is a copper, it just really ****es me off that some cops find time to constantly pull me over, but one day when I acutally do make a complaint about being tail gated I get a lecture on how theres only 1 van on the street to cover a 50km radius yet, I seen 3 10mins before pulling into the police station.

But best of luck with your job, you dont seem to be a bad bloke. Good stuff about posting on here

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by frost

Im not going to flame you, but you must admit some cops out there a pure Aholes.

Recently I moved to down the coast, iv been pulled over 16 times over a period of 6 weeks now. twice iv been pulled over 3 times a night. One copper stated its because I'm in a commodore town and I'm the only XR6 Driving around. A few weeks ago I was pulled over by the same copper twice and his story hadn't changed it was "random breathtest and license check". It gets rather annoying and I havn't been down in town at night for a few weeks because of this.

Guys settle down, remember in a sense he is a messenger, not the Boss, so complaining about some unfair treatment is going to solve nothing.

And every officer is an individual, so they will make mistakes. If you are 100% sure they have, just go to the nearest office and talk about it. I got off a fine because I knew he was wrong, I shut up at the time and took it. A week later I got a sorry and the fine was dropped.

So how is getting pulled over such an inconvenience? We choose to drive cars that attract attention, deal with it, its going to happen again so no point getting crabby about it.

Welcome to the forums, Im sure you probably have been reading for a while. Just curious, how closely do police monitor forums such as these? You can PM that reply if you want.

99.9% of the officers I have been pulled over by are great. Not long ago I got one doing 15 over. He had to do a u turn to get me, so I pulled over ASAP. Had a chat, I appoligised, said I just finished over taking someone (which I actually did), and then he said no worries, dont do it again and I was off.

Also something to remember is that in general, the people police have to deal with are the scum of society, people who have a chip on their shoulder about everything, not just cars, so they have to be open minded at the start.

If you show you are not a bogan, and realise what you have done it helps ALOT.

And who calls an officer "brother"...LOL :togo:

[snortycorty]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Also something to remember is that in general, the people police have to deal with are the scum of society, people who have a chip on their shoulder about everything, not just cars, so they have to be open minded at the start.

We have a copper in the family, and i remember him saying exactly that once!


Oh, and RAPID260 - grow up and show some respect.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by SDKC

I like most coppers are just people, doing the job that we chose to do, and like most people we like to be treated the same way as you would like yourself to be treated.

Originally Posted by SDKC

- Don't call me "mate". I do not know you and we are not mates.

SDKC, firstly welcome and thanks for making yourself available for questions.

I have a whinge though. What's wrong with being called mate? The very few people in my life who have made a comment like "I do not know you and we are not mates" immediately register themselves as a ****er in my world.

What do you want to be reffered to as? I was taught that "Sir" was respectful but you don't want that either. I could call you Constable or Sergeant but if I got it wrong I'd imagine that you would get shirty about that too.

Haven't you ever walked into a shop/pub/caryard or whatever and when greeted you've said "G'day Mate"? Ofcourse you have, why is it different when the same applies to you?

This is Australia, "mate" is a colloquialism and a term of enderament that essentially offers respect in identifying you as an equal - not higher or lower because of race, age, sex or uniform. "Mate" is engrained in us all, and saying "I'm not your mate" is a very arrogant way of dealing with people who at the end of the day, are just like you. Personally I think you need to come down from your tower in this instance and join the rest of us at ground level.

Anyway Mate, hope you hang around to answer some of the curly questions many would like clarity on.

Cheers.

edit - Nuttso must type quicker than me - and obviously likes the same cut & paste selection too!

[SDKC]

Originally Posted by GTP006

I have a whinge though. What's wrong with being called mate? The very few people in my life who have made a comment like "I do not know you and we are not mates" immediately register themselves as a ****er in my world.

When I walk up to the intercepted vehicle, I don't know who you are. If you are a full on crook then I don't want to be your mate. If you are a cleanskin then after I have established that, I'm happy to be mates.

Originally Posted by GTP006

What do you want to be reffered to as? I was taught that "Sir" was respectful but you don't want that either. I could call you Constable or Sergeant but if I got it wrong I'd imagine that you would get shirty about that too.

Again Sir is fine, just not sarcastic. I personally don't get shirty if I'm called Constable or whatever, I don't expect you to know what the stripes on my shoulder mean. We are all sworn in as Constables and we are constables for the duration of our careers.

Originally Posted by GTP006

Haven't you ever walked into a shop/pub/caryard or whatever and when greeted you've said "G'day Mate"? Ofcourse you have, why is it different when the same applies to you?

It's all good when I'm not in uniform. I don't call members of the public mate when I'm in uniform.

[QUOTE=GTP006]This is Australia, "mate" is a colloquialism and a term of enderament that essentially offers respect in identifying you as an equal - not higher or lower because of race, age, sex or uniform. "Mate" is engrained in us all, and saying "I'm not your mate" is a very arrogant way of dealing with people who at the end of the day, are just like you. Personally I think you need to come down from your tower in this instance and join the rest of us at ground level.[\QUOTE]

Fair enough.

Originally Posted by GTP006

Anyway Mate, hope you hang around to answer some of the curly questions many would like clarity on.

Cheers mate. :

[Scott]

Originally Posted by SDKC

Cheers mate. :

lol
So what is your preffered address?

[XR Rob]

Originally Posted by GTP006

I have a whinge though. What's wrong with being called mate? The very few people in my life who have made a comment like "I do not know you and we are not mates" immediately register themselves as a ****er in my world.

Yup. And let's get real here - part of effective community policing is an understanding and tolerance of not only cultural diversity, but social diversity, too. For your average ocker Aussie yob, who lives for the footy/cricket, his car and a smoke with his beer, "mate" is absolutely the best, most universal way to address someone. It's patently ridiculous to not take into account someone's social standing, or education level, or overall attitude when they call you "mate". To just conclude that because someone has called you "mate" that they are more deserving of copping a serve (or a ticket) from you is rubbish. We live in an egalitarian country. For many, mate is a totally appropriate form of address and, to be honest, doesn't even mean that they're trying to suggest you are great friends. So to put that spin on it is... well, wrong. I think it misses the point completely.

[SDKC]

Originally Posted by XR Rob

Yup. And let's get real here - part of effective community policing is an understanding and tolerance of not only cultural diversity, but social diversity, too. For your average ocker Aussie yob, who lives for the footy/cricket, his car and a smoke with his beer, "mate" is absolutely the best, most universal way to address someone. It's patently ridiculous to not take into account someone's social standing, or education level, or overall attitude when they call you "mate". To just conclude that because someone has called you "mate" that they are more deserving of copping a serve (or a ticket) from you is rubbish. We live in an egalitarian country. For many, mate is a totally appropriate form of address and, to be honest, doesn't even mean that they're trying to suggest you are great friends. So to put that spin on it is... well, wrong. I think it misses the point completely.

I'm not suggesting that just calling me (or any other copper) mate is going to result in a ticket. I cannot speak for any other coppers but myself, but I go by first impressions. I can understand that people that get intercepted are nervous and I allow for it. (Hell my stomach still does back-flips when I get intercepted.)

I don't know how to explain it. Maybe it's the overuse of the word mate. "C'mon mate, give me a warning." "Geez mate, I wasn't going that fast." "Mate, I do have a license, I left it at home."

It really is the way you say it. Kind of like what I said about sir. If you don't use it in a patronizing or sarcastic way, then I'm fine with it. It's the driver's that use "Mate" in a way that is them trying to be your friend.

[Maximus]

Welcome. Just out of interest, what Mods, if any, do you plan on doing to your ED?

[SDKC]

Originally Posted by Maximus

Welcome. Just out of interest, what Mods, if any, do you plan on doing to your ED?

Would love to do some mods, lower to legal ride height, some rims, a decent head unit etc...

But I am in a SITKOM (Single income two kids opressive mortage) and coppers don't make enough money (like all occupations) so it's going to stock for a while.

Hence my sig.

[FordGirl]

Welcome to the forums mate! It's always good to see coppers with a good attitude that respect what we do as a club! If only there were more like you.

** Just noticed I called you mate, haha.