Escort Rallyesport vs RS Focus

[melbzetec]

Anyone see the Topgear report tonight?

Matched the British 1979(?) rally champion Escort (full race spec) against a standard RS Focus around their test track. RS chewed up the esky.

The point? Racecars of a few years back don't necessarily beat a moden road car "with carpets and warranty"

The RS looked amazing as is carved up the corners and turns. The big difference? suspension and brakes

[Teki04]

Doesnt the ST beat the RS around the track too? Meaning.... it beats the Esky...

[tabaccs]

Yeah i saw that one a while back, the RS handles likes its on rails.. Pity that SBS is playing the 2004 season of top gear though and not the 2005 season, things are a bit dated..

Never the less such a great enjoyable motor show to watch, big thumbs up to SBS for screening it.

[tabaccs]

Originally Posted by Teki04

Doesnt the ST beat the RS around the track too? Meaning.... it beats the Esky...

Sure does, a whole 10 seconds quicker round the nurburgring test track...

[Polyal]

yeah saw that too...

the esky looked like more fun though...lol

[FOCUSonTHIS]

anyone got a torrent of it or a link to download it. I missed out.

Cheers

Adam

[Perana]

Torrent is here: http://www.mininova.org/get/28999

I bet the RS Focus would get whipped by the Escort RS Cosworth though

[Talldude]

it did top gear did another battle but with drag races, the escort cosworth beat the rs focus.

[FOCUSonTHIS]

still kick *** to see the focus win....thanks

[Timmeh]

Well, the Focus RS does have three times the power... but on a dirt rally track, I know where my money is. Also, the Top Gear track has large long straights and smooth road, the RS has a six speed, the Escort a four speed. The Escort ain't no highway car, the RS is. Even Jeremy Clarkson admits on twisty bumpy roads, the RS is a bag of crap, gets whopped by the WRX even tho the RS beats it on a smooth circuit.

Was stooged to begin with.

Escorts forever.

Timmeh

[FOCUSonTHIS]

LOL Tim, I love all fords, so I really didn't care who won, but go Ford with winning with the GT40

[Perana]

Originally Posted by Timmeh

Well, the Focus RS does have three times the power... but on a dirt rally track, I know where my money is. Also, the Top Gear track has large long straights and smooth road, the RS has a six speed, the Escort a four speed. The Escort ain't no highway car, the RS is. Even Jeremy Clarkson admits on twisty bumpy roads, the RS is a bag of crap, gets whopped by the WRX even tho the RS beats it on a smooth circuit.

Was stooged to begin with.

Escorts forever.

Timmeh

Agreed... also the Escort was gravel spec too so was not suited to tarmac running at all.

[wulos]

I watched that last night, & in my opinion the escort was simply inspirational. Way I saw it, the Escort showed just how damn good it really was for its time. The Escort with it's brutal curves & outright power seemed to be skating on ice, scrambling with it's paws for grip(yet still extremely controllable) The Focus on the other hand appeared to have come straight from the lawn bowls parking lot(all that was missing was the mushroom hat on the back parcel shelf & the grey cardigan)Would have been interesting to see just how evenly matched these 2 cars would have been if shod in similar rubber.
Perhaps you should consider becoming a Street Machine journalist making comments like the RS 'CHEWED up' the Escort. : : (Is it the truth?? Or did you read it in Street Machine?)
I certainly know which one of the two I'd prefer to have living in my garage.

[orsest170]

Originally Posted by wulos

I watched that last night, & in my opinion the escort was simply inspirational. Way I saw it, the Escort showed just how damn good it really was for its time. The Escort with it's brutal curves & outright power seemed to be skating on ice, scrambling with it's paws for grip(yet still extremely controllable) The Focus on the other hand appeared to have come straight from the lawn bowls parking lot(all that was missing was the mushroom hat on the back parcel shelf & the grey cardigan)Would have been interesting to see just how evenly matched these 2 cars would have been if shod in similar rubber.
Perhaps you should consider becoming a Street Machine journalist making comments like the RS 'CHEWED up' the Escort. : : (Is it the truth?? Or did you read it in Street Machine?)
I certainly know which one of the two I'd prefer to have living in my garage.

I can understand why people get defensive when something they have clearly worshiped for a long time is put down by others, but seriously mate some of your comments border on the ridiculous.

The Escort is a legendary automobile and was brilliant in its day, but making derogatory (not to mention unfounded) remarks about the RS focus simply because it beat your beloved Escort around the race track, is just silly.

How on earth can one of the best looking hatches and most capable track cars of the modern era possibly belong in a lawn bowls car park? I don’t think putting the same boots on the Esky would have turned the tables either – it had way too much body roll to even get close to the RS.

We could go on all day talking about “buts” and “what ifs”, and I’m sure you could concoct some scenarios in which the Esky would prevail, but the simple fact of the matter is, in the test that Top Gear ran, the RS did “chew up” the Esky, plain and simple.

[melbzetec]

And my comments were not about "us vs them".
Both cars are magnificent.
The whole point was, how much road cars have progressed in recent years, to the point where a "from the factory" car can (or can't in some cases) outperform fully prepared race cars of a just a few years back.

I'd be happy to own either of those cars

[Timmeh]

Originally Posted by melbzetec

And my comments were not about "us vs them".
Both cars are magnificent.
The whole point was, how much road cars have progressed in recent years, to the point where a "from the factory" car can (or can't in some cases) outperform fully prepared race cars of a just a few years back.

I'd be happy to own either of those cars

The test doesn't conclude that at all. It has taken both cars where the RS performs at its best and the Escort at its worst. It's like taking a 1979 F1 car and a 2005 Landcruiser to the Paris to Dakar and saying, geee, todays Landcruisers beat F1 cars of old.

I agree that it's a fun comparison, but does not conclude that todays road cars outperform old race cars, sorry. Only in an ideal circumstance for the new car and the worst possible for the old car.

I agree the RS is a top hatch, and beats a gravel-spec Escort on a smooth long track, but as Top Gear says, get it onto the backroads or gravel where it's not smooth tarmac, and it's twitchy, uncomfortable, and then you'll be singing a different tune.

"On a bumpy twisty road like this one, the differential causes the wheels to squirm and writhe. It's awful. It's like riding around on an angry horse." - 08.27.2002

"The very thing that makes the RS incredible on the track, its front differential, makes it useless on the road. It's so twitchy, there's so much torque steer" - 12.22.2002

And in that regard, that's why I can see Wulos would call it a car-park car, though I'd probably say it's a better highway car. Where-ever there aren't any bumps, or uneven surfaces, say.

Horses for courses.

Tim

[MAGPIE]

This is a completley irrelevent but fun comparison of two great Fords, that the RS Focus was never going to lose.

The only thing that should be compared to the RS Focus is this baby....

[orsest170]

Originally Posted by Timmeh

And in that regard, that's why I can see Wulos would call it a car-park car.

Tim

I think Wulos was implying that the RS focus is somehow a boring 'old mans car', hence the lawn bowls and cardigan references. Well if the RS focus is an old mans car, then the Toyota Echo sedan is the the most stylish car on the road : .

I would sell my first born for an RS here in the states. Being that i don't have one yet i would to give them a I.O.U. until said time.

[Martyvan]

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

This is a completley irrelevent but fun comparison of two great Fords, that the RS Focus was never going to lose.

The only thing that should be compared to the RS Focus is this baby....

All through my growing up years, (When i owned a Mk1 Escort) This was the car I wanted, the 3 times i have been to england i have chased up trying to find one, just to drive it... I think Awesome would have been the key. They wouldnt have wanted to Run the Escort Cossie versus the RS Foci because the Foci would probably have lost.

[Talldude]

this is the episode link (torrent file) to see the escort cossie beats the rs focus

http://www.finalgear.com/downloads/topgear/3/8/

over a 1/5th of a mile but still the cosworth was miles ahead.

[zetec]

In the Focus RS's case, it appears that the launch vehicles werwe somehow massaged by Ford (dirty rumour) to give them more balls, which in turn played against the factory tune of the diff and it couldn't cope. This was championed by RS owners for years who didn' have any complaints about the same problem.

EVO Magazine in their "Special Hot Hatch Issue" number 083 from September 2005 state the following:

"Twist the key, fumble between the seats for the starter button, snick the tight, precise, short-throw gearlever into first, and we're away, Clark following in the Astra (VXR). These are exactly the sorts of roads on which the RS should be a right handful, yet although the suspension is obviously very taut, we're soon zipping along. A couple of tricky corners come and go and I'm absolutely certain of one thing: this RS is not like any other that I've driven.

There's no torque-steer, not in a straight line over poor surfaces, not when you hit boost in first or second geat. Even gunning hard and early out of a tight corners (sic) there's only a hint that the limited slip diff is trying to steer the RS. I'm astonished. The Focus's (sic) steering is firmly weighted and gives lots of detail, the strong inline-four has progressive boost, and the front end delivers total traction. It makes yards on the Astra out of corners and spears down the next straight showing no appetite for grabbling at cambers, bumps or white lines. It's brilliant."

Goes on to say...

"Compared with the early press cars we drove, the smoother turbo delivery and slightly less aggressive limited-slip action of Tony Clark's example made a world of difference, allowing the RS to get on with the job of going forwards. It makes us wonder if the press cars were "tweaked" to make them a bit keener and harder. Clark says both his cars drive the same and the owners who wrote to us after we published our tests took exception to our robust criticism. If they were all like this, I can understand why.

This RS is superb. I reckon if we'd pitched is into the group test you've just read, it would have left the Astra for dead, elbowed the Megane out of the way and given the Golf a serious run for its money. Yes, it's that good."


So apart from the positivley atrocious grammar that english bloke uses (who's language is it again?) he clearly states he has turned around. Evo were the biggest haters of the RS upon launch and along with good old "show me a good car and I'll show you 500 bad ones" Jeremy Clarkson they were the only ones to seriously diss the RS at launch with the front diff. Now I'm not trying to bash Escorts and praise the RS, but offer another opinion to the foray, since I hate seeing it get bashed without defence from those who caused all the bashing!

Either way guys, this thread is not about bashing Escorts or RS. The test was simple - stated clearly and perhaps they could have chosen a touring car from that era or something instead of an Eskie but instead they chose a spiritual ancestor. Maybe not fair, all in the name of entertainment and a minor slip-up from an otherwise stunningly brilliant show. Who says they weren't entertained by either car floggin it?!?!!!

So I'm being Tim for once here and throwing a bucket of water onto this bushfire before it gets out of control, please take it at face value an appreciate that 3 of the hot cars they used in that comparo were Fords anyway!!!!

[outback_ute]

That's interesting zetec, it wouldn't be the first time that sort of thing has happened. It would have been interesting to see the Escort set up for tarmac though, as it was there was no comparison. Same goes for the Audi Quattro vs Mitsubishi Evo.