Insurance for a 'frankenstein car' - Page 2

Rodp · 17-02-2009, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUIIForte

Its better then getting void because you didn't claim a modification you made, which would have absolutely nothing to do with the crash. If these insurance companies can play with us like little dolls, why cant we, if we know we can get away with it.

How about just informing the insurance company of the modification? It's not difficult.

The problem is when you don't get away with it, you stand to face an enormous fine and/or gaol time because you didn't think it made any difference.

gu4800 · 17-02-2009, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUIIForte

If these insurance companies can play with us like little dolls, why cant we, if we know we can get away with it.

Because you won't get away with it - plain and simple.

If driving the car is illegal in Vic because of the P Plate laws, then at a minimum he risks losing his license. And that is still a big thing, particularly if yo drive to and from work, or worse require your car for work. Loss of livelihood worth it?

If you think you will take on an insurance company in the event of an accident, good luck.

AUIIForte · 17-02-2009, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gu4800

Because you won't get away with it - plain and simple.

If driving the car is illegal in Vic because of the P Plate laws, then at a minimum he risks losing his license. And that is still a big thing, particularly if yo drive to and from work, or worse require your car for work. Loss of livelihood worth it?

If you think you will take on an insurance company in the event of an accident, good luck.

You should have read the whole thread because somebody actually claimed to get away with it.

I am not saying its a 'model citizens' thing to do!

But if I upgrade my air filter (very small mod), then tell the insurance company what my modification is, then have them tell me I need to pay EXTRA for this mod to continue my line of insurance with them, it is in my mind that this extra amount I have to pay is outrageous! (why would any modification to any car make it more dangerous to drive [everybody knows its a money making scheme, nothing more. They don't care about your safety]) If I get in an accident, if I can, I will change out the air filter back to factory spec's.

Saves my self money, and I feel good because I out scammed the biggest scam corporate business in the world.

It doesn't matter what people think is moral or immoral (obviously to an extent) in today's world. We live in such an immoral world that I feel comfortable to take advantage and 'cheat' the system to save a little money. It does NOT hurt anybody, it doesn't ruin ANYBODIES life, it doesn't change a single thing, except that I don't have to pay as much for my insurance.

RedHotGT · 17-02-2009, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

The problem is when you don't get away with it, you stand to face an enormous fine and/or gaol time because you didn't think it made any difference.

And nobody wants to go to Gaol...
They've got chains and you get bread and water....
And those cool white pyjamas with the arrows on them....

Hehehhe
Sorry RODP can't help it...
haven't heard it be called that for a long time....

bob^ · 17-02-2009, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUIIForte

I am not saying its a 'model citizens' thing to do!

Seems most of 'model citizens' around...

Anyway mate, don't take advice on this stuff from forum members as they won't be the ones repaying your debt if you do smash and don't end up covered. Best just put 5 minutes aside and give them a call. That way you can get 100% correct answers.
That's how we used to do things before forums and the internet

geckoGT · 17-02-2009, 10:43 PM

Ok, I am not going to mention the idea of driving a car you are not licensed for and insurance, been covered enough here.

What I am going to mention is the possibility of geting away with it, not good.

At an accident, normally paramedics are called (often by a passer by without stopping). The paramedics routinely notify the police and fire service of the accident for them to respond.

Once the fire fighters turn up the first thing they do is lift the bonnet to isolate the battery, and mostly leave the bonnet up.

The police turn up and the first thing they do is check your license and a breath test. Then seeing a modified car you can bet they are going to check it out, and see the turbo you are not licensed for.

There goes that insurance!

Trust me, I know how it goes at an accident as I attend them daily at work.

geckoGT · 17-02-2009, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUIIForte

You should have read the whole thread because somebody actually claimed to get away with it.

I am not saying its a 'model citizens' thing to do!

But if I upgrade my air filter (very small mod), then tell the insurance company what my modification is, then have them tell me I need to pay EXTRA for this mod to continue my line of insurance with them, it is in my mind that this extra amount I have to pay is outrageous! (why would any modification to any car make it more dangerous to drive [everybody knows its a money making scheme, nothing more. They don't care about your safety]) If I get in an accident, if I can, I will change out the air filter back to factory spec's.

Saves my self money, and I feel good because I out scammed the biggest scam corporate business in the world.

It doesn't matter what people think is moral or immoral (obviously to an extent) in today's world. We live in such an immoral world that I feel comfortable to take advantage and 'cheat' the system to save a little money. It does NOT hurt anybody, it doesn't ruin ANYBODIES life, it doesn't change a single thing, except that I don't have to pay as much for my insurance.

Great advice there

:

He is talking about a non standard turbo that he is not legally licensed for, not an air filter.

AUIIForte · 17-02-2009, 10:53 PM

You are all correct in what you are saying. But you did not fully read my post, I said "If you can", then why not? If its a small modification like that, and you are in the situation where you have the opportunity, why not?

If its a custom fitted turbo, then its a whole new story. I was not talking about the OP anyway, I was merely backing up another poster in this thread.

On the subject of the OP, my stand is that he should absolutely not be driving such a modified car at his age (even if you are getting off your P's soon). Keep it garaged, and buy a cheap old heap of crap to drive around in. Will save you money in the long run, and you wont have ANYTHING to worry about when you are driving. Just be patient and wait till you get your full license.

AUIIForte · 17-02-2009, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Great advice there

:

Sorry, but where did I state I was giving advice? I was merely bringing a point across.

geckoGT · 17-02-2009, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUIIForte

Sorry, but where did I state I was giving advice? I was merely bringing a point across.

True, but the OP is a young kid who is trying to find a way to insure his illegal car so he can illegaly drive without a relevant license. A simple point in your mind and mine may actually qualify as sound advice in his.

Rodp · 17-02-2009, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUIIForte

You are all correct in what you are saying. But you did not fully read my post, I said "If you can", then why not? If its a small modification like that, and you are in the situation where you have the opportunity, why not?

If you're willing to take that risk then go right ahead. An "if you can" scenario occurs after the fact, not before. How do you know you're going to get away with it until you go to make a claim?

Consider an accident where the driver had changed their air-cleaner to a pod and didn't notify insurance. They were involved in a multicar accident, they're incapacitated and taken away by ambulance and the car towed. It was determined that they were at fault.

1. Insurance doesn't discover pod or you change it before an assessor notices.

2. Insurance discover that the pod was installed on the car and voids insurance. Driver is up for a hefty bill.

2. Insurance discover that the pod was installed on the car, driver changes it after it was discovered. Driver caught red handed, up for a hefty bill and insurance fraud.

If I was looking to make any modifications to my car, I'd contact my insurance company first to determine if it's going to cost additional money on my premium and whether the car will still be covered.

AUIIForte · 17-02-2009, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

True, but the OP is a young kid who is trying to find a way to insure his illegal car so he can illegaly drive without a relevant license. A simple point in your mind and mine may actually qualify as sound advice in his.

I didn't see it that way. I am sorry if I did come across that way. :(
I do have the same stance as you do on this topic when it comes to the OP!

I am sure he could do well if he listened to the good advice here. Which is obviously to not drive a car you are not legally and licensed to drive, otherwise you will be in deep poo.

There is a good side to being in the deep poo though, he will be able to tell his friends, relatives, loved ones and others his story and warn them not to do the same, as he will be a living example of the deep poo you can really get into for such fraud.

geckoGT · 17-02-2009, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUIIForte

I didn't see it that way. I am sorry if I did come across that way. :(
I do have the same stance as you do on this topic when it comes to the OP!

I am sure he could do well if he listened to the good advice here. Which is obviously to not drive a car you are not legally and licensed to drive, otherwise you will be in deep poo.

There is a good side to being in the deep poo though, he will be able to tell his friends, relatives, loved ones and others his story and warn them not to do the same, as he will be a living example of the deep poo you can really get into for such fraud.

Very true

I just hope he listens without finding out the hard way, like having debt for the rest of his life because he is liable for the repair costs of that BMW 7 series that he hit.

Hemicuda · 17-02-2009, 11:43 PM

I am sure that Malazn has heard it all before and understands the consequences and risks associated with driving a car he is not legally allowed to drive, but at least he is trying to do the right thing and is seeking advice on insurance options.(the most irresponsible thing to do is to drive around completely uninsured) As some captain obvious' have stated, the best solution is to wait 5 months to avoid any serious ramifications and Gecko is right in saying if a major accident did happen where someone is injured then the situation could turn horribly ugly. But i bet he already knew that. But if he is hell bent on driving the thing then seeking insurance for third party at least for minor accidents and theft is not such a silly thing. You may pull it off or you may not. I really don't think that jail is part of the deal if an insurance company denies a claim, they either pay or they don't.
I wasn't aware that they don't use the power/ weight formula anymore which i think is a bit non-sensical. Blanket ban on all turbo and V8 cars just makes a lot of young people curious and adds mystique to the situation which is why i think we are seeing a lot of non-compliance by P platers. And as for exemptions, gee a lot of thought went into that one. An inexperienced driver in an XR6T company car with all fuel and maintenance expenses paid for, i think we can all imagine how that is going to end.
Just a thought but wouldn't it make more sense for a Proby to go through an intensive advanced/ defensive driver course before being exempted? I'm sure Proby drivers, who really want that dream performance car, would be happy to pay for the course for the privilege to drive one. Or was this exemption only implemented so parliamentarians siblings could drive Saab's.
BTW, by sledging insults and calling members stupid is a bit unnecessary and isn't going to help him do the right thing. Some of you guys need to get off your moral high horses. We all did things we shouldn't have in our youth, and if you didn't then you weren't getting out enough.

AUIIForte · 18-02-2009, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hemicuda

I am sure that Malazn has heard it all before and understands the consequences and risks associated with driving a car he is not legally allowed to drive, but at least he is trying to do the right thing and is seeking advice on insurance options.(the most irresponsible thing to do is to drive around completely uninsured) As some captain obvious' have stated, the best solution is to wait 5 months to avoid any serious ramifications and Gecko is right in saying if a major accident did happen where someone is injured then the situation could turn horribly ugly. But i bet he already knew that. But if he is hell bent on driving the thing then seeking insurance for third party at least for minor accidents and theft is not such a silly thing. You may pull it off or you may not. I really don't think that jail is part of the deal if an insurance company denies a claim, they either pay or they don't.
I wasn't aware that they don't use the power/ weight formula anymore which i think is a bit non-sensical. Blanket ban on all turbo and V8 cars just makes a lot of young people curious and adds mystique to the situation which is why i think we are seeing a lot of non-compliance by P platers. And as for exemptions, gee a lot of thought went into that one. An inexperienced driver in an XR6T company car with all fuel and maintenance expenses paid for, i think we can all imagine how that is going to end.
Just a thought but wouldn't it make more sense for a Proby to go through an intensive advanced/ defensive driver course before being exempted? I'm sure Proby drivers, who really want that dream performance car, would be happy to pay for the course for the privilege to drive one. Or was this exemption only implemented so parliamentarians siblings could drive Saab's.
BTW, by sledging insults and calling members stupid is a bit unnecessary and isn't going to help him do the right thing. Some of you guys need to get off your moral high horses. We all did things we shouldn't have in our youth, and if you didn't then you weren't getting out enough.

Tiny bit of that I didn't agree with, but with the most part (98% of) you are so right. I agree with this stance. When did having a turbo ever matter, or a supercharger or a different cam, or an edit to your tune? That is all that these insurance companies make money off.

Edit your tune, which costs about a grand, plus dyno runs, all up to raise your rwks by about 10-20, and how much does that cost at your insurance company?? The cost will make you cringe! Add a huge turbo or supercharger, you're gonna have to upgrade the whole system, meaning more $$$ to make it run reliable and safe. But the insurance companies want to know EVERYTHING, to the tiniest detail you have altered.

Why not have what the previous poster said? Power to weight ratio. That is what, in the end, matters upon the fact of how fast your can will travel. Power to weight is the best means of determining how fast or slow a car is. Even though its mods might make it faster, they should NOT charge for the extra mods (why? Somebody give me a good damn reason why insurance companies charge for the little 'est of mods) but they should charge according to your age and your cars power to weigh ratio. It would make EVERYBODY happy!

geckoGT · 18-02-2009, 12:24 AM

Quote:

BTW, by sledging insults and calling members stupid is a bit unnecessary and isn't going to help him do the right thing. Some of you guys need to get off your moral high horses. We all did things we shouldn't have in our youth, and if you didn't then you weren't getting out enough.

I do not really see any sledging insults. Should those that observe this forum member getting crap advice from some, just shut up and watch him be misguided by those that have not only given poor advice, but in many cases illegal.

Quote:

Just a thought but wouldn't it make more sense for a Proby to go through an intensive advanced/ defensive driver course before being exempted? I'm sure Proby drivers, who really want that dream performance car, would be happy to pay for the course for the privilege to drive one. Or was this exemption only implemented so parliamentarians siblings could drive Saab's.

That is a great idea and without doubt worth considering. I can see enforcement will be difficult. For example, kids are taught at school that drugs are dangerous, yet they still do them. I think there is a reasonable chance that many will do the course, get the car and then play the hoon. Like I said, worth a thought but needs work.

**Sorted** · 18-02-2009, 12:26 AM

Did we all not read the bit where he has only 5 months to go on his licence to get off his P's.

IIRC the strict P Plate Law only came in last year and if you had a current P plate Licence then it did not effect you.

So if he has 5 months to go does that mean he has had his P's for 1 year and 7 months or 2 years and 7 months.

Who knows P Plate Law in the State the guy is from???

Or are we all arguing about illegal when its legal?l

geckoGT · 18-02-2009, 12:32 AM

Quote:

an xr6t is not p-plate legal (i'm off in a 5 months anyway), but a N/A 6 (which the car is technically registered as) is..

His own post implies that he is not legally allowed to drive it.

Oh well, only 5mths to wait, not long and then he can mod and insure without all the drama, too easy.

barbarian · 18-02-2009, 12:42 AM

just tell insurance that its a xr6t

AUIIForte · 18-02-2009, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

I do not really see any sledging insults. Should those that observe this forum member getting crap advice from some, just shut up and watch him be misguided by those that have not only given poor advice, but in many cases illegal.

For example, kids are taught at school that drugs are dangerous, yet they still do them.[

School should not teach anything about drugs.

I'll give an example.

"Teenagers have been found doing the red pill. This pill has been found to kill and cause confusion in people who use it"...

WELL HOW THE .HE.LL. WOULD THE KIDS KNOW IF THE RED PILL EXISTED, UNLESS THE MEDIA SHOWED THAT IT EXISTED?

"Marijuana is a wide spread disease that is causing young people to not focus on their education at school"... How the EFFIN else would the majority of people find out about marijuana if there was no media attention? They WOULD NOT! There would only be a little %, like 0.5% of people who knew and used it.

**Linz** · 18-02-2009, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hemicuda

Just be prepared if you stack it.
Have all the standard parts ready and waiting to go back in when and if you do have to make a claim. Make sure car is towed to your house and get to work.
I remember back in the late 80's a similar incident happened to me. My XC rally pack was insured as standard and with 302. Although i did have a 351 crank in it which was a bit hard for the average assessor to prove. When i had to claim it was as easy as off with the holley on with the carter, remove 10" rear 12 slotters on 265's and on with the stockies, remove the sport twirler and all good, everyone happy. I can assure you too that none of my non standard modifications contributed to my accident, just simply not concentrating.

Yep, that'd probably work fine....unless he's covered head to toe in plaster

:

satria · 18-02-2009, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUIIForte

For example, kids are taught at school that drugs are dangerous, yet they still do them.[

School should not teach anything about drugs.

I'll give an example.

"Teenagers have been found doing the red pill. This pill has been found to kill and cause confusion in people who use it"...

WELL HOW THE .HE.LL. WOULD THE KIDS KNOW IF THE RED PILL EXISTED, UNLESS THE MEDIA SHOWED THAT IT EXISTED?

"Marijuana is a wide spread disease that is causing young people to not focus on their education at school"... How the EFFIN else would the majority of people find out about marijuana if there was no media attention? They WOULD NOT! There would only be a little %, like 0.5% of people who knew and used it.

that has to be one of the most irresponsible comments i've ever heard/read... cigarettes pros/cons were never tought in schools back in the baby boomer years and almost EVERYONE smoked and thought it was fine for their health. People were slowly educated about the negative consequences of cigarettes and the trend has slowed dramatically.

The exact same story goes for marijuana...

thank god you're not our PM.

PS: I'm not a massive anti-drug dude i may sound like from this post, i don't care what people do but your comment was pretty rediculous.

geckoGT · 18-02-2009, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUIIForte

For example, kids are taught at school that drugs are dangerous, yet they still do them.[

School should not teach anything about drugs.

I'll give an example.

"Teenagers have been found doing the red pill. This pill has been found to kill and cause confusion in people who use it"...

WELL HOW THE .HE.LL. WOULD THE KIDS KNOW IF THE RED PILL EXISTED, UNLESS THE MEDIA SHOWED THAT IT EXISTED?

"Marijuana is a wide spread disease that is causing young people to not focus on their education at school"... How the EFFIN else would the majority of people find out about marijuana if there was no media attention? They WOULD NOT! There would only be a little %, like 0.5% of people who knew and used it.

Wow, I must have hullicinating when I sat through the drug awareness lessons in highschool, 25 years ago. If my daughter is not taught about this at school I will be annoyed.

Quote:

that has to be one of the most irresponsible comments i've ever heard/read... cigarettes pros/cons were never tought in schools back in the baby boomer years and almost EVERYONE smoked and thought it was fine for their health. People were slowly educated about the negative consequences of cigarettes and the trend has slowed dramatically.

The exact same story goes for marijuana...

thank god you're not our PM.

PS: I'm not a massive anti-drug dude i may sound like from this post, i don't care what people do but your comment was pretty rediculous.

I agree completely, absolute crap.

Rodp · 18-02-2009, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hemicuda

But if he is hell bent on driving the thing then seeking insurance for third party at least for minor accidents and theft is not such a silly thing. You may pull it off or you may not. I really don't think that jail is part of the deal if an insurance company denies a claim, they either pay or they don't.

Falsifying details and/or not disclosing modifications and then hiding them in the event of an accident is insurance fraud which carries a penalty depending on the severity.

malazn mafia · 18-02-2009, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorted

Did we all not read the bit where he has only 5 months to go on his licence to get off his P's.

IIRC the strict P Plate Law only came in last year and if you had a current P plate Licence then it did not effect you.

So if he has 5 months to go does that mean he has had his P's for 1 year and 7 months or 2 years and 7 months.

Who knows P Plate Law in the State the guy is from???

Or are we all arguing about illegal when its legal?l

My Licence was before the introduction of blanket ban over all V8/Turbo. 125Kw/tonne rule applies though, and my car is driven 95% on LPG, which would struggle to put out 190kw at the flywheel (wont get any power above 3000rpm, and a good means of traction control in the wet).

Quote:

Originally Posted by barbarian

just tell insurance that its a xr6t

I was thinking maybe just insure as an xr6t, but isnt that in a way insurance fraud.. coz it wasnt really an xr6t or registered as one?

Paddyboy · 18-02-2009, 03:37 PM

The P plate laws in Vic are currently, no turbos, no v8's and no high peformance 6's (im not sure how the government judges what classifies as a high performance 6). These rules came in in July 1 2008 if I can remember and If you had P plates before that the rule was a power to weight ratio. 3.5 litres per tonne and 125 kws per tonne. therefore to have a turbo xr6 (approx 240kw) the car would nearly have to weight 2 tonne (ba xr6's are around low 1700's i think). The size of the engine is fine. So either way its illegal for him to drive it.

But the most important thing here isnt just insurance, but if his turbo isnt engineered, his car is actually illegally registered as well (correct me if im wrong) therefore if he crashes, any damage done to other cars, other property and even medical expenses to himself, passengers and others involved are all on his head, registration on a car covers medical cost associated with an accident, so he would be totally screwed and open to people and insitutions suing him for a lot more money then he will ever have.

So to put it short, mate its not worth driving this car on your P's and if you have an aftermarket turbo on it then get an engineer certificate, it might cost a bit to get one, but it'll be worth it. I totally understand you wanting to drive this car coz youve put in some hard earned cash and want to reap the benefits, but just think about it.

geckoGT · 18-02-2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paddyboy

The P plate laws in Vic are currently, no turbos, no v8's and no high peformance 6's (im not sure how the government judges what classifies as a high performance 6). These rules came in in July 1 2008 if I can remember and If you had P plates before that the rule was a power to weight ratio. 3.5 litres per tonne and 125 kws per tonne. therefore to have a turbo xr6 (approx 240kw) the car would nearly have to weight 2 tonne (ba xr6's are around low 1700's i think). The size of the engine is fine. So either way its illegal for him to drive it.

But the most important thing here isnt just insurance, but if his turbo isnt engineered, his car is actually illegally registered as well (correct me if im wrong) therefore if he crashes, any damage done to other cars, other property and even medical expenses to himself, passengers and others involved are all on his head, registration on a car covers medical cost associated with an accident, so he would be totally screwed and open to people and insitutions suing him for a lot more money then he will ever have.

So to put it short, mate its not worth driving this car on your P's and if you have an aftermarket turbo on it then get an engineer certificate, it might cost a bit to get one, but it'll be worth it. I totally understand you wanting to drive this car coz youve put in some hard earned cash and want to reap the benefits, but just think about it.

Best post here, some good advice.

By the way, in the calculation of 125kw/T, they will not take that running on gas if it is dual fuel. The power reading will be taken off it running on the minimum RON fuel that it can run.

Paddyboy · 19-02-2009, 02:52 AM

A BA standard came with 180kw at flywheel. So if you're saying that by adding turbo and lpg you only gained 10kw's then you just wasted a whole lot of money dude. I'd say at the least even if you started off with 170kws and added a turbo with no extra mods (exhaust, air intake, extra boost, edit etc) then you would gain at least 40-50 kws i'd presume, so that leaves you with 230-240 kws which still means your car is to powerful.
Does your car have the factory turbo or aftermarket?

BA_GTR · 19-02-2009, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paddyboy

But the most important thing here isnt just insurance, but if his turbo isnt engineered, his car is actually illegally registered as well (correct me if im wrong) therefore if he crashes, any damage done to other cars, other property and even medical expenses to himself, passengers and others involved are all on his head, registration on a car covers medical cost associated with an accident, so he would be totally screwed and open to people and insitutions suing him for a lot more money then he will ever have.
.

This is something that I'm confused about. I know its slightly off topic but it is also related so I thought I might as well. People like Shannons and Just Cars will provide insurance to aftermarket supercharged and turbocharged vehicles, but in Victoria it's very hard (more correctly, ridiculously expensive, due to emissions testing, I think) to engineer a turbo'd/super'd car. Does that mean that if it is insured as a supercharged car which isn't engineered and gets involved in a crash that they will void the insurance?