Will the Holden brand survive?

[bangm001]

I actually didn't think there would be as many new holdens on our roads as we currently have.

[Windsor220]

With Holdens total sales you also have to remember Barina, Spark and Commodore ute have been axed so that's almost another 250 sales to be lost. Not sure what's happening with Commodore and if they are still selling VFs.

[davenl5l]

Breaking News a certain very old holden/hsv dealer in sadelaide has just asked for voluntary redundancies or people will be sacked 2nd time this year

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by davenl5l

Breaking News a certain very old holden/hsv dealer in sadelaide has just asked for voluntary redundancies or people will be sacked 2nd time this year

This is the collateral damage of such low Holden sales. I reckon a lot of dealers would be feeling the pinch.

Didn't Holden already force the closure of a really big dealership in Adelaide recently?

[davenl5l]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

This is the collateral damage of such low Holden sales. I reckon a lot of dealers would be feeling the pinch.

Didn't Holden already force the closure of a really big dealership in Adelaide recently?

Originally Posted by I6DOHC

Hey GTP534, which dealer was that? I would like to give them a call to find out more.

Yes Metro Holden ceased being a dealer around xmas

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by davenl5l

Breaking News a certain very old holden/hsv dealer in sadelaide has just asked for voluntary redundancies or people will be sacked 2nd time this year

Hamilton Holden & HSV

[davenl5l]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Hamilton Holden & HSV

No . City Holden

[bigwil]

Im on holidays at the Gold Coast and ive seen plenty of ZBs, guessing they are rentals but they are everywhere

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

So what are the chances that ZB Commodore is over the worst and sales may be growing?

I thought Equinox would do better but must say was not that impressed with interior...

Will the new Arcadia move the sales needle much for Holden?

Acadia is a petrol V6 and will probably guzzle the fuel. I see it going the way of the Equinox which has been a massive fail for Holden. If it had a diesel option it might be different.

In before someone says Kluger is a petrol V6 only. But it's a Toyota and it's the only one in the segment that sells petrols in any decent numbers. The rest are mostly diesel.

[GT450]

Bent 8 you purport to be a Ford fan on this forum but are continually sticking the boot into the brand . You cannot pull sales out of a total to make the figures suit your argument all you are doing is distorting the figures.
Ford may have a greater number of sales in a particular segments but we are no longer a sedan orientated society and if you asked GM if they would prefer Fords figures over the ones they are currently achieving, what do you think they would say?
Sometimes i just think you believe you are on a Holden forum on which you would no doubt get the accolades you wish for and deserve.
GT450

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by GT450

Bent 8 you purport to be a Ford fan on this forum but are continually sticking the boot into the brand . You cannot pull sales out of a total to make the figures suit your argument all you are doing is distorting the figures.
Ford may have a greater number of sales in a particular segments but we are no longer a sedan orientated society and if you asked GM if they would prefer Fords figures over the ones they are currently achieving, what do you think they would say?
Sometimes i just think you believe you are on a Holden forum on which you would no doubt get the accolades you wish for and deserve.
GT450

Ok since we’re poking the bear here, let’s back it up with facts and figures
to refute the belief that Holden has a substantially greater spread of sales.

So let’s look at the figures in those 12 segments and this much is clear:

Ford leads sales in seven segments, Holden in five including the near
dead heat in compact SUV..............


1. Subcompact cars
Ford Fiesta………………..…..18
Holden Spark………………….11
Holden Barina………………229

2. Compact cars
Ford Focus……………..……..358
Holden Astra………………….571

3. Medium cars
Ford Mondeo………………..128
Holden (no entrant)………….0

4. Large cars
Ford (no entrant)………………0
Holden Commodore……..682

5. Sports Car
Ford Mustang………………..736
Holden (no entrant)………….0

6. Subcompact SUV
Ford EcoSport………………...84
Holden Trax…………………..550

7. Compact SUV
Ford Escape……………..……403
Holden Equinox…………….407

8. Medium SUV
Ford Everest………………….492
Holden Captiva………….….266
Holden Trailblazer………..197

9. 4x2 Utility
Ford Ranger 4X2…………..432
Holden Colorado 4X2…..170
Holden Utility 4X2……………4

10. 4x4 Utility
Ford Ranger 4X4………....3,083
Holden Colorado 4X4…..1,269

11. Medium Van
Ford Transit Custom……….178
Holden (no entrant)……….….0

12. Heavy Van
Ford Transit Heavy……………49
Holden (no entrant)……..…….0

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Ok since we’re poking the bear here, let’s back it up with facts and figures
to refute the belief that Holden has a substantially greater spread of sales.

So let’s look at the figures in those 12 segments and this much is clear:

Ford leads sales in seven segments, Holden in five including the near
dead heat in compact SUV..............


1. Subcompact cars
Ford Fiesta………………..…..18
Holden Spark………………….11
Holden Barina………………229

2. Compact cars
Ford Focus……………..……..358
Holden Astra………………….571

3. Medium cars
Ford Mondeo………………..128
Holden (no entrant)………….0

4. Large cars
Ford (no entrant)………………0
Holden Commodore……..682

5. Sports Car
Ford Mustang………………..736
Holden (no entrant)………….0

6. Subcompact SUV
Ford EcoSport………………...84
Holden Trax…………………..550

7. Compact SUV
Ford Escape……………..……403
Holden Equinox…………….407

8. Medium SUV
Ford Everest………………….492
Holden Captiva………….….266
Holden Trailblazer………..197

9. 4x2 Utility
Ford Ranger 4X2…………..432
Holden Colorado 4X2…..170
Holden Utility 4X2……………4

10. 4x4 Utility
Ford Ranger 4X4………....3,083
Holden Colorado 4X4…..1,269

11. Medium Van
Ford Transit Custom……….178
Holden (no entrant)……….….0

12. Heavy Van
Ford Transit Heavy……………49
Holden (no entrant)……..…….0

Lol, how many of those 12 segments do both have an entrant in?
7 and its 4-3 in Holdens favour.
You can cut that back to 6 soon and take out the subcompact segment as both manufacturers are abandoning it but in its replacement, Subcompact SUV, Holden has a huge advantage.
The only place Ford has a genuine advantage over Holden is in the 4x4 ute market when comparing apples with apples.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Lol, how many of those 12 segments do both have an entrant in?
7 and its 4-3 in Holdens favour.

And there you go again, Ford has entrants in 11 of those segments while Holden has entrants in 8.
You're clutching at straws by ignoring all the high sales area just to prove Holden sells more subcompacts..

You can cut that back to 6 soon and take out the subcompact segment as both manufacturers are abandoning it but in its replacement, Subcompact SUV, Holden has a huge advantage.

Overseas, we're already seeing next gen Ecosport mules - kinda resembles Mazda CX-3
Also inbound is next generation Escape, Focus and of course Endura is about to arrive..

The only place Ford has a genuine advantage over Holden is in the 4x4 ute market when comparing apples with apples.

Without a doubt, Ford has the oldest line up of any brand in Australia,
Ford will be taking the up elevator next year but Holden, we'll wait and see..

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

You're clutching at straws by ignoring all the high sales area just to prove Holden sells more subcompacts..

No im not, one of those 3 in Fords favour is 4x4 ute of which they are miles ahead, how is including that segment ignoring it, the fact is, of those 7 segments that they BOTH compete in, Holden is in front 4 to 3.

Of the remaining 5 segments, Ford competes in 4 for around 1100 sales whilst Holden competes in 1 for almost 700.
Ford may compete in more segments, but apart from Ranger, they arent really setting records now hey.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Lol, how many of those 12 segments do both have an entrant in?
7 and its 4-3 in Holdens favour.
You can cut that back to 6 soon and take out the subcompact segment as both manufacturers are abandoning it but in its replacement, Subcompact SUV, Holden has a huge advantage.
The only place Ford has a genuine advantage over Holden is in the 4x4 ute market when comparing apples with apples.

But you're not comparing apples to apples, the moment you ignore vehicle age, sales mix and pricing,
your comparisons are out the window.

Notice that most of Holden's sales leads are in the subcompact cars and SUVs,
could that be because of recent discounting to push sales???

The Equinox (new) vs Escape is pretty line ball and i'd be prepared to concede
that Equinox sales mix might be richer while escape could have a lower sales mix to level sales..

See how this goes, it's not all about sales numbers in a vacuum, Ford dropped
its Ambiente Focus a few years back and started with Trend up over $23K
boom, there goes sales but not the kind you really want to have..save for $17,990 Astras..

On and on it goes, the worst of it is Colorado 4x2 and 4x4 are way less costly to purchase that ranger
Again Trailblazer versus Everest - try getting a decent Everest for under $60K without giving up stuff...


new Escape will be with us in the near future but I realise that until Ford has new product here now,
it is really at the mercy of the market but equally, Holden would gladly trade 1600 of its other sales
to have 1600 more 4x4 Colorado sales...be under no illusion about that, they would love to be where Ford is.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

But you're not comparing apples to apples, the moment you ignore vehicle age, sales mix and pricing,
your comparisons are out the window.

Perhaps you should lobby Vfacts to produce a breakdown of where each model is at in its life cycle, the mix and pricing.
I doubt it'll get much traction though, most people, apart from bean counters and those looking for any little advantage, just look at the final numbers.

You're clearly focussing on who's making the most money, i dont get any of it so i dont care and apart from that the answer would be Toyota with daylight second....

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by GT450

Bent 8 you purport to be a Ford fan on this forum but are continually sticking the boot into the brand . You cannot pull sales out of a total to make the figures suit your argument all you are doing is distorting the figures.
Ford may have a greater number of sales in a particular segments but we are no longer a sedan orientated society and if you asked GM if they would prefer Fords figures over the ones they are currently achieving, what do you think they would say?
Sometimes i just think you believe you are on a Holden forum on which you would no doubt get the accolades you wish for and deserve.
GT450

Bent_0 has an agenda, it’s obvious.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by GT450

Bent 8 you purport to be a Ford fan on this forum but are continually sticking the boot into the brand . You cannot pull sales out of a total to make the figures suit your argument all you are doing is distorting the figures.
Ford may have a greater number of sales in a particular segments but we are no longer a sedan orientated society and if you asked GM if they would prefer Fords figures over the ones they are currently achieving, what do you think they would say?
Sometimes i just think you believe you are on a Holden forum on which you would no doubt get the accolades you wish for and deserve.
GT450

Actually i dont, im a fan of locally built Fords, the company itself can get stuffed and i've never shied away from that stance.
I didnt take anything out to suit my argument, i was simply saying that utes aside, Holden are holding their own in numbers, maybe not profit margins, but more people are buying the rest of Holdens range than they are buying Fords, the numbers dont lie but unfortunately rather than just accept that this is true, we have guys like jdp banging on about profit margins which has nothing to do with the point of my post.
Obviously Holden would love to be moving 3000 Colorado's a month, but im sure if you asked Ford they'd prefer to be moving 18k units a month like Toyota.
Despite what you might think, both brands are a shadow of their former selves with the real enemy closing in whilst guys like yourself beat your chests over a 1600 ute sales advantage over a fellow bit player.
I get it though, when you cant compete for outright supremecy, any wins a win.

[jpd80]

Here you go,
https://www.holden.com.au/offers#?showall=true
Astra sedan from $17,990 drive away...and 0.9% comparison rate finance...
Equinox SUV from $27,990 drive away...and 0.9% comparison rate finance...

I bet anyone who wants a Holden would get a ripper of a deal at the moment,
Ford not so much...

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Here you go,
https://www.holden.com.au/offers#?showall=true
Astra sedan from $17,990 drive away...and 0.9% comparison rate finance...
Equinox SUV from $27,990 drive away...and 0.9% comparison rate finance...

I bet anyone who wants a Holden would get a ripper of a deal at the moment,
Ford not so much...

Lol, Ford are offering Escape at 29,990 with 0.9% finance

[PG2]

Gentlemen.

We are now just going around in circles.

You have both now had your say and I too, have had my say.

Let's back onto the topic of, "Will the Holden Brand Survive?"

[jpd80]

So what are the chances that ZB Commodore is over the worst and sales may be growing?

I thought Equinox would do better but must say was not that impressed with interior...

Will the new Arcadia move the sales needle much for Holden?

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

So what are the chances that ZB Commodore is over the worst and sales may be growing?

Its hard to say but we need to remember that its only 12 months since local production ceased and many buyers pulled the trigger on a new one before they finished.
This car is polarising and will take time to bring people around if ever, having said that, being fully imported now and sold in more markets than the outgoing model did it doesnt need to reach the numbers that VF or its predecessors did to be economically viable.
I know alot of people say they hardly see the things and as someone who lives within throwing distance of the Elizabeth plant and obviously Holden country, this is certainly a fair comment, however, numbers locally are growing so the die hards are taking a closer look.

I've said from the beginning that 800 per month is where its probably at and its not far off that now which isnt bad for a car which is so radically different from the one its replaced and thats without factoring in the V8's absence.
If you consider that of the 2000 odd units a month during the last year of VF production, 70% was V8's (1400 give or take) and ZB doesnt have a V8, the 6 at 700 units has actually held firm.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Its hard to say but we need to remember that its only 12 months since local production ceased and many buyers pulled the trigger on a new one before they finished.
This car is polarising and will take time to bring people around if ever, having said that, being fully imported now and sold in more markets than the outgoing model did it doesnt need to reach the numbers that VF or its predecessors did to be economically viable.
I know alot of people say they hardly see the things and as someone who lives within throwing distance of the Elizabeth plant and obviously Holden country, this is certainly a fair comment, however, numbers locally are growing so the die hards are taking a closer look.

I've said from the beginning that 800 per month is where its probably at and its not far off that now which isnt bad for a car which is so radically different from the one its replaced and thats without factoring in the V8's absence.
If you consider that of the 2000 odd units a month during the last year of VF production, 70% was V8's (1400 give or take) and ZB doesnt have a V8, the 6 at 700 units has actually held firm.

Interesting points. So of the 700 VF 6, sold each month how many were sold to rental companies? And if rental companies were the biggest buyer of VF 6, s does ZB really only sell to rental car companies?

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by kevino

Interesting points. So of the 700 VF 6, sold each month how many were sold to rental companies? And if rental companies were the biggest buyer of VF 6, s does ZB really only sell to rental car companies?

Does it matter, a sales a sale i guess although having said that there must be quite a few people renting cars in my neighborhood lately.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Does it matter, a sales a sale i guess although having said that there must be quite a few people renting cars in my neighborhood lately.

Sales to rental car companies would be a fleet discount plus meaning low profit or nil profit per sale.
If ZB is mainly selling to rental car companies at no or little profit what is the cars reason to exist?

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by jpd80

So what are the chances that ZB Commodore is over the worst and sales may be growing?

I thought Equinox would do better but must say was not that impressed with interior...

Will the new Arcadia move the sales needle much for Holden?

ZB is all fleet, goverment and rental. Very few are private and theres a lot of demos that were registered 6 months ago which are still on dealer shelves.



God only knows what fleet incentives they are putting them on to get traction, there would be a loss in everyone I would think.



As for Equinox it should have been called Captiva. Captiva the dog it was still sold in good numbers.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

ZB is all fleet, goverment and rental. Very few are private and theres a lot of demos that were registered 6 months ago which are still on dealer shelves.



God only knows what fleet incentives they are putting them on to get traction, there would be a loss in everyone I would think.



As for Equinox it should have been called Captiva. Captiva the dog it was still sold in good numbers.

It must be a bit of a head scratcher for Holden how the Equinox can't even sell in numbers anywhere near what that POS Captiva sold.

It was utter garbage but it sold well over 3 or 4 times what the Equinox is. Or is it a case of the Holden brand being so toxic now, and not back then?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

It must be a bit of a head scratcher for Holden how the Equinox can't even sell in numbers anywhere near what that POS Captiva sold.

Because the Captiva didn't exactly have a great reputation for reliability, add to that the even worse reputation of the Cruze, and its little wonder people just aren't interested in Holdens.

[jpd80]

Once the rhetoric of unrequited love dies down, we see buyers reappearing, it's still happening
long after many local supporters thought Mustang would peak and trough as the novelty wore off.
It's now becoming clear that people are giving imported Mustang and ZB Commodore more than a go.