Focus XR5 to be dethroned

[Piotr]

Mondeo XR7 is reckon. Im sure the crazy germans can make a 7cylinder

[Marshy79]

I only saw the KW figures of the Type R mentioned in here.
It may be lower in KW than other hatches out there.... but it could also be a boatload lighter to boot.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by melbzetec

Don't forget the iVTEC factor though Piotr. Torque at bottom and top


p.s You can't get up close to it at MMS. They have put it on a pedestal since press launch this morning

Its bottom end 'torque' is an absolute joke. Cars like the Golf GTI, Focus XR5 Turbo, Megane 225 and Mazda 3 MPS have more torque at 1500-2000rpm then the stupid Honda has at peak. Variable valve timing (aka. iVTEC) doesn't give it magical bottom end torque. It makes what would be otherwise an unuseable, undriveable engine that wouldn't idle... useable. They're still a low rpm dog, that uses crutch technology to make up for its self-imposed power & design defficiency, which in the big picture, limits their performance and potential severily. 193Nm @ 6500rpm... what a joke...

[orsest170]

Originally Posted by Teki04

I knew it would be one of the two!

Also, Although Top Gear loved the Civic Type R... I think Car Magazine or Evo didn't rate it as high. The R26 F1 won a comparison against it. Again I'd have to get the issue from the newsagent.

Yep that's right, Car Magazine declared it the new hot hatch king, and Evo had it dead last in their comparison, which featured almost exactly the same group of cars. I didn't buy the magazines (too damn expensive) and virtually skipped straight to the verdict page, so I'm not entirely sure why they arrived at such different conclusions? I'm pretty sure the Golf Gti won the Evo comparison and the Megane was second, which interestingly enough is exactly the same result as Wheels' latest hot hatch comparo.

[melbzetec]

Yeh, but it was a good initial post to get the debate going!!!

[1lifeliveit]

Lets face it

All these comparison tests are subjective, even though some have a group of testers rather than just 1.

You can compare them only to a certain extent, with power and torque figures and braking distances. Beyond that its really all about FEELING, and u cant quantify how u FEEL in a car

I read somewhere that the R26 F1 wants to be a go-cart on roads. It obeys everything u throw at it. But is just not NICE. A bit like the RS. And mind you Topgear didnt rate the RS as the best either. But if we ask the question " who prefers an RS over other hot hatches?", Im sure almost every1 in this forum wud put their hands up

I think cars are like girls (or shud I just say partners). No one is THE BEST.
But yeah we cant just stay away from comparing :hihi:

[EAtDUST]

Check out the uk XR2 Fiesta! mid to late 80's maybe?


http://www.xrownersclub.co.uk/showthread.php?t=65

[Rev28K]

Steffo with your vivid imagination you really should write a novel, something in the fantasy genre would be right up your alley. Either that or prefix your posts “The following posts have only the most tenuous connection with reality”.

Originally Posted by Steffo

Its bottom end 'torque' is an absolute joke. Cars like the Golf GTI, Focus XR5 Turbo, Megane 225 and Mazda 3 MPS have more torque at 1500-2000rpm then the stupid Honda has at peak

No one seriously expect a N/A engine to match a turbo for torque at low revs.

Originally Posted by Steffo

Variable valve timing (aka. iVTEC) doesn't give it magical bottom end torque. It makes what would be otherwise an unuseable, undriveable engine that wouldn't idle... useable.

This comment is as wrong as your earlier ones about all of the VTEC engines being oversquare. I’ve driven an EF8 CRX with a B16A1 engine (meant to be one of the peakiest engines). This car didn’t have the VTEC computer and the owner had got around this by mounting a switch on the dash that let you select the high or low cams. I’ve had it in “high” on the road and guess what? It was still usable, it was still driveable and it still idled.

My B18C7 has enough torque at low revs for daily driving you can stroke along quite comfortably below 5000rpm all day. Have a look at their torque curves. There are times on the track when I am caught between gears - 4th in Winton’s sweeper at 4000revs isn’t going to set your pants on fire but it’ll still pull through it and match the speeds of an F6 with over 4 times my torque. I’ve never had a problem staying within spitting distance of stock turbo WRX’s and Nissan 200SX’s – some of that is due to weight, gearing and handling but if my torque and drivability was as rooted as you imply then surely they would leave me for dead.

Originally Posted by Steffo

They're still a low rpm dog, that uses crutch technology to make up for its self-imposed power & design defficiency, which in the big picture, limits their performance and potential severily. 193Nm @ 6500rpm... what a joke...

The later K20 engines in the DC5R and DC5S are better and torquier with less of a “kick” between cams. I’ve had rides around circuits in both of them and the drivers can definitely pull higher gears at lower speeds. Again look at their torque curves, they aren’t the all or nothing screamers that the original engines were made out to be. Maybe try driving one before you comment. There is no reason to expect that the new Civic R will be worse seeing as one of it’s aim is to be easier to use day to day.
You want to talk about crutch technology, then you should look at some bad examples of turbo engines.

Why do you hate Honda Steffo?
Is it the fanboi’s? The F1 marketing for the current bland oz range? Did Asimo step on your foot?

[melbzetec]

Originally Posted by melbzetec

Here's my tip to get you wondering.

Tomorrow at 10am, the Focus XR5 will no longer be Australia's No.1 Hot Hatch.

I can say no more. Except that God himself has declared a new No.1.

More explanation in 24 hours

(Stephen lights fuse and steps back)

Before this thread turns into a war! (LOL) I feel I should make it known to everyone that I do professional consulting work for Honda, and come with certain knowledge and biases

Most of the regulars in the Focus sections know this, but in case there are some that don't, I want to make it crystal clear so that no one is under any misapprehension

I started this thread as much as a tease as anything(and it certainly has got some debate happenning), but want everyone to be comfortable with my background.

Note. ThereforeI am not interested in getting into a Honda/Ford/non Ford debate here and will try to refain from doing so.

Hope that makes sense.

[photn]

okay for all you people who like to debate about the honda...some facts

Honda released new car = Not in you control. get over it, you either like it or you dont. you dont have to try and convince everyone else that your perception is the most correct one...

Do you have to like the new honda = NO!!!!!!so once again get over it...

Are you being Forced into buying the New honda... = NO...so once again get over yourself.

Alright We get it...the honda isnt the best car out there. so the **** what....you like to compare apples and oranges to pears and bananas. stop bagging out each different car cause of its faults, point them out and leave it at that....why not look at what they do have and how good they are.

No one is forcing any1 here to like the HONDA.....so stop trying to get your point across so that every1 thinks like you.....

Your not neccessarily right....and

PS the world doesnt revolve around you....otherwise it would be a such as sad yet conflicting world

[zetec]

If another car is launched that's fun to drive, good value and stylish for the consumer, then I can only see the consumer winning. More choice is NOT something to complain about!!!

[Marshy79]

On a slightly diff tone to what this thread had gone through...

Had anyone seen those youtube vids of the new type r... a Focus ST (aka the xr5)... and was it a wrx?
They were all going down the road.. then they would boot it.... the Type R just blew the others away.

Might have to search for it

[MikGan]

yeah post up a link to that, sounds interesting!

[Marshy79]

Hmm went looking... found the vid... twas a 20meg download... but wasnt the new type R... was quicker than the ST and WRX... looking at it now Im totally sure what the buzzbox was!

[Ives]

Show me, I'm "asian"... I should know what it is.

[Whitey Ford]

I have considered getting a TypeR to replace my XR5T if Ford AU does not sort out my power window issue.. but honestly, I'd rather have the MPS3

[fordel]

Keep this on track noe everyone....

[marcosambrose]

If i was to make a Hot hatch using parts from every car, it would have the DSG 7 speed from the GTi, the AWD quattro system from the Audi S3, the styling of the Megane 225 and Civic Type R, the Suspension balance of the XR5, the power output of the MPS 3 and the interior of a Mini Cooper S.

id call it 'The Slut', because it has everyone in it.

:-)

[Teki04]

Originally Posted by orsest170

Yep that's right, Car Magazine declared it the new hot hatch king, and Evo had it dead last in their comparison, which featured almost exactly the same group of cars. I didn't buy the magazines (too damn expensive) and virtually skipped straight to the verdict page, so I'm not entirely sure why they arrived at such different conclusions? I'm pretty sure the Golf Gti won the Evo comparison and the Megane was second, which interestingly enough is exactly the same result as Wheels' latest hot hatch comparo.

That's really weird!

Ok, Car Magazine and BBC's Top Gear Magazine rated the Civic Type R as the new Hot Hatch king!

Top Gear Magazine March 2007;

1. Honda Civic Type R
2. VW Golf GTI Edition 30 (Top Gear actually rated the normal GTI as better)
3. Ford Focus ST
4. RenaultSport Megane 230 F1 Team R26
5. Vauxhall Astra VXR
6. Mazda MPS3
7. Seat Leon Cupra

Car Magazine March 2007;

1. Honda Civic Type R
2. VW Golf GTI Edition 30
3. Ford Focus ST
Others. Mazda MPS3, Vauxhall Astra VXR, Seat Leon Cupra, VW Golf R32, BMW 130i, Volvo C30, Audi S3, Mini Cooper S (Turbo), Renaultsport Clio 197 (Not in order)

Evo Magazine March 2007;

1. RenaultSport Megane 230 F1 Team R26
2. VW Golf GTI
=3. Ford Focus ST
=3. Vauxhall Astra VXR
5. Seat Leon FR
6. Honda Civic Type R

So, take all that data which every way you want!

I have all three magazines, at a grand total of $54.95 :

[Bucknaked]

Who really cares what a pole or a mag or a journo says about a car. If you drive it, you like it, then buy it. Too mnay people believe what these mag's say and take their articles as gospel. We all know they are paid by the car companies to give faviourable results. If it feels good to you, then that's a better indication than any popularity contest. Your the one paying for the car. You have to feel like the car is best for you.