Drivers booked doing double the limit, or 160km/h, on Plenty Road, Mill Park

[kezzer]

Originally Posted by zdcol71

I know this will get me into strife , but I think we have one of them right here

and here.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Hate to say it but probably some fool pushing for 180.

Therefore this kind of stupidity is not news worthy.

[4Vman]

Some People probably find this kind of news publicity irritating because lets face it.. there's probably an element of guilt about their own behavior and they want it swept under the carpet....

[kezzer]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Some People probably find this kind of news publicity irritating because lets face it.. there's probably an element of guilt about their own behavior and they want it swept under the carpet....

yeah, not because there is a thread about this on AFF every few days. :

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by kezzer

yeah, not because there is a thread about this on AFF every few days. :

Its got your attention hasn't it??? Maybe the message might be actually sinking into you too...
If you "don't care" don't read the thread, simple. :togo:

[kezzer]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Its got your attention hasn't it??? Maybe the message might be actually sinking into you too...
If you "don't care" don't read the thread, simple. :togo:

Yep, and you presume to know my driving habits

[UNR8D]

The P plate driver lost control of the illegal vehicle while hooning. Police say speed was the reason" If you took out 2 words(hoons, and reason), I'd say it was a fairly accurate representation of what actually happened. "Hoons" apparently no one likes cause it tags all idiots with the same brush, and "reason" cause it probably wasn't the reason but a contributing factor.

thought you weren't jumping in half cocked?... It wasn't a TURBO XR6 that the 5 died in, you like the media need to get their facts straight.

I suggest you watch media watch and just see how ill informed the general media are.

Ill stand by the fact that if they are already breaking 5 laws how is bringing in 3 more going to stop the situation? I mean clearly this works, they break more laws and still die... great theory, doesn't get put in practice so well does it ;)

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by UNR8D

thought you weren't jumping in half cocked?... It wasn't a TURBO XR6 that the 5 died in, you like the media need to get their facts straight.

I suggest you watch media watch and just see how ill informed the general media are.

Ill stand by the fact that if they are already breaking 5 laws how is bringing in 3 more going to stop the situation? I mean clearly this works, they break more laws and still die... great theory, doesn't get put in practice so well does it ;)

A couple of points:

The media NEVER claimed it was a Turbo

You're right, the guy broke 5 laws, more laws wouldnt have stopped HIM, and wont stop total idiots....

But we will never know how many lives ARE actually saved because many intelligent young drivers actually follow the laws and advice given and drive sensibly....
To say the laws are infective just because a few disregard them is just plain narrow minded...

[UNR8D]

right... so lets make everyone wrap themselves in cotton wool and hope that will save a few, of course, noway of measuring how many lives are saved but hey what ever makes you sleep at night.

Ive gone over in other threads what I believe would make a difference but hey that's not 'far enough' and all young drivers will be hoons after getting some education and training.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by UNR8D

thought you weren't jumping in half cocked?... It wasn't a TURBO XR6 that the 5 died in, you like the media need to get their facts straight.

I suggest you watch media watch and just see how ill informed the general media are.

Ill stand by the fact that if they are already breaking 5 laws how is bringing in 3 more going to stop the situation? I mean clearly this works, they break more laws and still die... great theory, doesn't get put in practice so well does it ;)

I made that story up, it was not supposed to be an accurate event.

The point is the constant use of the word "hoon" in an attempt to de-humanise car enthusiasts.

I wonder how long it will be before you have just parked your pride an joy Falcon GT at a shopping centre and you overhear someone telling their children to not go near the "dangerous hoon car" and watch out for that man he is a "dangerous hoon" who will kill you on the road.
How do they know you are a homicidal manic? You drive a "hoon car" and there in no reason to own a "hoon car" except to speed, road race and kill other innocent road users. It must be true, it was on TV.

It started like this in the 1980s for shooters and hunters and look where that ended up.

The constant use of the word "speed" is to vindicate and validate the increase in income from speed cameras.

[UNR8D]

So, Iv'e mulled on this a bit, didn't want to jump in half cocked.
Point by point
No, there isn't a jump in the road toll, in fact if we can believe any figures at all and not get hysterical and start throwing around figures like "squillions" , the road toll is actually decreasing per 100,000 drivers per year since the 1970s.
(8/100000 in 1970 compared to 1/ 100000 in 2008)

Yes, it does happen all the time, at least since data on road fatlities was first recorded in 1925, when apparently there were 700 reported road deaths(which was 11.8 deaths per 100000 population ,through to 2008 when there were 1465 deaths at 6.9/100000 population.
I have been watching TV news since the ABC introduced its' 7.00pm news with an anolouge clock in black and white, and trust me ,road accidents, deaths from crashes etc are not suddenly newsworthy, they have been news worthy, I guess, since 1925 although it may have been lost on the population who were without TVs in those days.
Running a "squillion" high profile stories on TV will not bring any one back to life, and certainly won't help families or anyone else involved for that matter, has anyone suggested it would?
If you choose to take your "news"/ "current affairs" from ACA et al, then you will get any gaps that you feel need filling, filled.
Yor next point seems to suggest that there was something journalistically wrong with saying ""5 hoons were killed when their high powered modified XR6 turbo slammed into a tree. The P plate driver lost control of the illegal vehicle while hooning. Police say speed was the reason" If you took out 2 words(hoons, and reason), I'd say it was a fairly accurate representation of what actually happened. "Hoons" apparently no one likes cause it tags all idiots with the same brush, and "reason" cause it probably wasn't the reason but a contributing factor.
Says exactly the same thing as "5 young people lost there lives in a road accident"...how much of a "positive" spin do you want to put on it??
I have not noticed a marked trend in these posts or any other articles for that matter to end with the assertion that every crash/fatality has something to do with "speed"
I for 1 do believe that running "graphic beat ups" may shock someone into ralising that (as somebody in another thread put so succinctly) young people have their whole lives in front of them, if they only realised it.
Grand theft auto and face book .... are not the real world, it hurts when you fall off your bike or run your car into a pole or stab your class mate with a knife..
You mention media hype and only reference ACA, and Top Gear.. they are only after one thing, your patronage, use them as your base line and they have got you exactly as they had planned. You are watching them and buying theIR product ,that's media hype, not informed opinions on what is actually relevant.
Just to finish, have a look at The National Road Safety Action Plan 2001-2010.Quote"Aims to reduce the annual number of road deaths to no more than .6/100000 by Dec 2010.With 1 year remaining to achieve this target, the natonal road safety action plan 2009-2010 focuses on measures to reduce driving speeds, make vehicles, roads and roadsides safer and facilitate safer behaviour amongst road users",
I know it will be hard to convince someone who is sure that govenment, media, cops, general public, ad nauseum are out to beat them up, that there is not some sort of evil conspiricy in hand,... but there you go.
Ps I am simply replying to your post, this is not a personal attack

is what I was quoting from, he said he wouldnt go in half cocked but failed to pick up you made up the story... sorry everyone missed the point. it was meant as a tongue in cheek comment :

as for the other stats, per capita we have had the lowest road toll since WW2, hooning is less than 2.1% of the full road toll, when inattention is the biggest killer on the roads and we focus on this then the problem lies with the general public, and the morons of media

They don't like it because it effects THEM, much easier to pick on the P platers or those who enjoy having a modified cars..

Humanity sucks.

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by UNR8D

is what I was quoting from, he said he wouldnt go in half cocked but failed to pick up you made up the story... sorry everyone missed the point. it was meant as a tongue in cheek comment :

as for the other stats, per capita we have had the lowest road toll since WW2, hooning is less than 2.1% of the full road toll, when inattention is the biggest killer on the roads and we focus on this then the problem lies with the general public, and the morons of media

They don't like it because it effects THEM, much easier to pick on the P platers or those who enjoy having a modified cars..

Humanity sucks.

Youv'e lost me!!
Ps. I notice you have used the "inattention" stat.on a number of occassions, what exactly is it and where does it come from?

[rodderz]

Another big crash only 300m up the road from the last crash, 1 fatality, 1 pretty seriously wrecked car. Must of been going pretty quick, there wasn't a straight panel on the car and it had rolled probably 25m or so from the road to a nearby fence.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vic...-1225845373189

[UNR8D]

Originally Posted by zdcol71

Youv'e lost me!!
Ps. I notice you have used the "inattention" stat.on a number of occassions, what exactly is it and where does it come from?

latest stats fully available from qld official website, there is 84 detailed pages if you really want to get acquainted ;)

[Tray]

hey guys got a question, i was driving along princes hwy and i saw cameras 500m up the road, 100km/h road i was doing 90 and the camera shuddered at me, does that mean i was done doing over the speed limit even thou i was doing 90 or does it shudder at all cars? its the little white box with the flap on it.

[JC]

Originally Posted by Tray

hey guys got a question, i was driving along princes hwy and i saw cameras 500m up the road, 100km/h road i was doing 90 and the camera shuddered at me, does that mean i was done doing over the speed limit even thou i was doing 90 or does it shudder at all cars? its the little white box with the flap on it.

Why were you doing 90? It probably got you for going too slow without a valid reason.

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by rodderz

Another big crash only 300m up the road from the last crash, 1 fatality, 1 pretty seriously wrecked car. Must of been going pretty quick, there wasn't a straight panel on the car and it had rolled probably 25m or so from the road to a nearby fence.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vic...-1225845373189

People don't learn. Never have, never will.
Responsibility for some goes in one ear and out the other.
The consequences of stupidity are often not accepted by those most affected, with the finger pointed elsewhere...

To put it simply...some people simply don't care, and immediately think they're better than those that had the accident.

I don't think Ayrton Senna said that, nor did Peter Brock, and we know what happened to those to.

Some people never learn.

[deesun]

As much as I hate speed cameras, why haven't the RTA/Police/whoever put one up on this Mill Park road? It would clearly be a safety issue. And there is no reason it can't be set at a slightly higher speed rather than the ridiculous 1 or 2KPH over the speed for that road. People will still speed but for every 1 driver doing stupid speed and currently getting caught then there are probably 10 drivers doing stupid speed and not getting caught.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by rodderz

Another big crash only 300m up the road from the last crash, 1 fatality, 1 pretty seriously wrecked car. Must of been going pretty quick, there wasn't a straight panel on the car and it had rolled probably 25m or so from the road to a nearby fence.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vic...-1225845373189

After all of the focus placed on the original accident, the police targeting that area and the media beatup us 'hoons' have received ever since, you'd think that would make young drivers stop and think about their actions... well, apparently not some of them.

Obviously a notorious stretch of road - a place where a speed camera or two probably would be warranted (and I can't believe I just said that...)

[LTDterri]

Originally Posted by Rodp

After all of the focus placed on the original accident, the police targeting that area and the media beatup us 'hoons' have received ever since, you'd think that would make young drivers stop and think about their actions... well, apparently not some of them.

Obviously a notorious stretch of road - a place where a speed camera or two probably would be warranted (and I can't believe I just said that...)

I dont know if its notorious or not I live in the area and use the road daily its a straight 2 lane road with an 80k speed limit, I think that there are just too many people out there who think they can drive at any speed and are invincible. The road has gravel edges but you have come a long way off to be in it. One big issue is it carries alot of traffic these days due to the urban sprawl so you get plenty of inpaitent drivers gunning it to get around weaving in and out and unfortunately if you get into trouble there are plenty of big old trees to stop you ending up in someones back yard. I drove passed this latest one not long after it happened the road was being closed off, another life lost, I think they need fixed cameras as the mobile ones are extremely obvious around there or more importantly barriers to stop cars ending up in the trees. You will never to be able to educate everyone and lots of young guys do not think it will ever happen to them. My condolences to the family of this lastest victim.

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by UNR8D

latest stats fully available from qld official website, there is 84 detailed pages if you really want to get acquainted ;)

Innatention is not the biggest "killer"; it is, by your own choice of statistic, one of quite a number of contributing factors to fatal and hospitilisation crashes. Taken on its own as actual cause of accident, I wouldn't be surprised to see the graph a little differently skewed.It's a little like me saying "I dont see hooning listed in the chart above" but take out rain/wet road,and maybe fatigue, and I have seen all the rest of the "contributing factors" used when looking for an apt description of a hoon.

[jcxr]

Originally Posted by LTDterri

I dont know if its notorious or not I live in the area and use the road daily its a straight 2 lane road with an 80k speed limit, I think that there are just too many people out there who think they can drive at any speed and are invincible. The road has gravel edges but you have come a long way off to be in it. One big issue is it carries alot of traffic these days due to the urban sprawl so you get plenty of inpaitent drivers gunning it to get around weaving in and out and unfortunately if you get into trouble there are plenty of big old trees to stop you ending up in someones back yard. I drove passed this latest one not long after it happened the road was being closed off, another life lost, I think they need fixed cameras as the mobile ones are extremely obvious around there or more importantly barriers to stop cars ending up in the trees. You will never to be able to educate everyone and lots of young guys do not think it will ever happen to them. My condolences to the family of this lastest victim.

If you live close to this area, you will know that there was also a smash earlier in the day very close to the fatality in the afternoon. Increased Police activity hasnt been noted at all in the area. Cops need to hammer the road for a few weeks, get the speeders and dangerous driver off the roads. Plenty Rd has always been one of the most deadly roads in the northern suburbs for years. Have lost count of the deaths in recent years, but do remember there have been 10 or so in the last 6 months around Mill Park.

[MAD]

I hate to say it, but why wont they just put up a couple of speed cameras along there?
Or if they want to stop people dying, some barriers to keep cars away from the trees.

If the problem is as 'localised' as the media make it out, its not too hard to focus your attention to it.

[Jason[98.EL]]

As much as we all believe that speed cameras are revinue raisers in this instance this place needs to have them and in a hurry to stop this stupid loss of life

Would the younger generation please head to the speed limit and grow a brain ( not having a go at all young drivers ) but somedo need to slow down

Jason

[4Vman]

A speed camera wouldn't stop them, it will either snap the incident or shift the problem onto another road....

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by UNR8D

...if they are already breaking 5 laws how is bringing in 3 more going to stop the situation? I mean clearly this works, they break more laws and still die...

Kinda on the right track here I think. Laws are only as good as appropriate punishment as a deterrent.

If 'kids' (using it loosely as a generalization...hear me out), deliberate or decidivist offeners of any age or demographic aren't made fully aware of the consequenses and the Courts / Judicial systems don't go soft after the police drag them before them...then I believe the message and the significance is lost. There is no consequence to the action, so that gives them the mistaken belief (whether conscious or otherwise) that they are un-touchable.

Having 4000 Sections in The HOONING and other ANTI-SOCIAL MODIFIED CAR RELATED ACTIVITIES ACT, No.1, 2010...blah blah blah is pointless unless the Judiciary is willing to lock people up for doing genuinely stupid, and potentially Darwin Award worthy things no matter how "down on his luck"...or "He's a good boy, he just fell in with the wrong crowd"...or..."It was an accident, he didn't mean to be doing 163 km/h in the wet after bonging on at Jonno's place...he's a good boy...I blame the police...they made him do it"

JHMO.

[Outback]

There is a very easy solution to the speeding issue,fit every car in Australia with a speed limiter with a max of 110 and on the road it must be active all the time , and switch it off when you want to do track work. and the law should be if caught with the limiter off on public roads min sentence 25 years.

[GTENVY]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Have you guys noticed, when its raining really hard, it seems to bring out the morons? I notice people do more stupid things in the wet, then when its dry, maybe its just the one speed mentality, just because its 100km/h, doesn't mean you do it when the road is basically flooded.

Off topic a little bit but totally agree with you. Seems too be that everyone has a 1000 hp in the wet, e.g spinning the wheels/going sideways.

I was on a club run acouple of years ago and it was pouring with rain. Came up to a roundabout and their was a guy drifting around it, did it quite a few times even as the 20 or so club cars drove through it.

Thing was we parked up down the road a couple of km at a park and the cops turned up about 10 minutes after we got there sussing us out. Talk about idiots giving car enthusias' a bad rep!

[MAD]

Originally Posted by Outback

There is a very easy solution to the speeding issue,fit every car in Australia with a speed limiter with a max of 110 and on the road it must be active all the time , and switch it off when you want to do track work. and the law should be if caught with the limiter off on public roads min sentence 25 years.

How does that work in a 40 zone?

[LTDterri]

Originally Posted by jcxr

If you live close to this area, you will know that there was also a smash earlier in the day very close to the fatality in the afternoon. Increased Police activity hasnt been noted at all in the area. Cops need to hammer the road for a few weeks, get the speeders and dangerous driver off the roads. Plenty Rd has always been one of the most deadly roads in the northern suburbs for years. Have lost count of the deaths in recent years, but do remember there have been 10 or so in the last 6 months around Mill Park.

Totally agree jcxr and after the 5 kids were killed you did see more police on the road in the weeks following the crash but as usual this has dropped off. Camera set ups wont work on the strip as there is no reason for cars to be parked other than camera cars or break downs along there. Maybe look at barriers to keep them out of the trees, lot of guys going quick up there but I still think that section of Plenty Road is one of the safest There have been plenty of deaths on Plenty Road as you say but in recent years this section between Childs Road and Centenary Drive has had none. Plenty Road runs from Preston right through to Whittlesea township and because it is so congested once you get passed McKimmies Road lots of drivers tend to open it up a bit more I suppose due to frustration, speed zone is up to 80 there and you will always have those who do alot more than that. Inexperience,inattention and speed are never a good mix.