Ute Comparison. VE Holden SV6 & SS vs FG Ford XR6T & XR8 - Page 2

mik · 08-08-2009, 03:03 AM

some might think these journo`s (term used loosely) are BIASED but........ i would never think such a thing

mcnews · 08-08-2009, 07:57 AM

Just because a car gets to 100km/h quicker does not mean it is a better all round engine for everyday needs. Anybody that thinks otherwise is just plain stupid. Take the blinkers off

Watto_Cobra · 08-08-2009, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnews

Just because a car gets to 100km/h quicker does not mean it is a better all round engine for everyday needs. Anybody that thinks otherwise is just plain stupid. Take the blinkers off

True, but in the case of Falcon and Commodore, the I6turbo covers all the bases.

Heaps of power.
Masses of torque right through the range.
Frugal for what it is.
Just as happy pottering around as going hard.

Ticks all the boxes for me.

_2:

**PepeLePew** · 08-08-2009, 08:19 AM

I dont see the issue here....

The article is supposedly about sport utes, the type of ute that likely spends its life in the city for cool factor and where the buyer doesnt check payload and if the ute is truly unfortunate it may end up making a trip to the dump with the familys nappies. The leaf springs may help Ford sell more commercial utes, but for the town yuppie?

All round, the SSV is likely a more willing car to drive courtesy of cubes. Poke it, and it goes anywhere anytime. The same response we used to look for in Clevos and Windsors and love. The quad cam V8's changed that for Ford, we've known that since the day they were released. You have to DRIVE the car to get ultimate performance, something once associated purely with sports car engines. Whats the issue? The XR6T gets a glowing review and in my perception the overall win. The XR8 isnt shamed, it gets the 0-100 win over SSV, its just implied it may be less grunty to drive from day to day (in the poke and go stakes)and is the bigger challenge to drive quickly...

I dont see any bias or anything said thats blatantly wrong. A decent article.

**Falcon Coupe** · 08-08-2009, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PepeLePew

I dont see any bias or anything said thats blatantly wrong. A decent article.

What about:

Holden SS-V

What we liked
>> Awesome grunt
(Should have added, but not as fast as it feels)

Falcon XR8

>> All bark, no bite. Not as fast as it sounds.

At first, it just fried the rear tyres if you give it too much throttle

Overall, the XR8's performance times surprised us because it doesn't feel that quick.

Certainly contradictory if nothing else.

4Vman · 08-08-2009, 08:30 AM

Yes.. the words simple don't match the numbers...

**PepeLePew** · 08-08-2009, 09:02 AM

I'll agree to disagree as I read it differently. Perhaps Im trying to be too kind in reading between Dowlings lines, but frying the tyres when you're deliberately trying to post a 0-100 time is different than what you get when you poke the throttle at roll-on.

I'll say a poorly written article then subject to too much interpretation

MONSOON · 08-08-2009, 09:55 AM

I am glad the Ford's have stayed to the true workhorse utility, but would it be possible to engineer a live axle coil spring watts links, that offered the rugged weight carrying ability of the current leaf setup but without many of the drawbacks, just a thought

4Vman · 08-08-2009, 09:59 AM

Personally a ute is a workhorse first and foremost.. the fact that it can be modified to give it a sports look and feel shouldn't detract from its primary purpose and objective, i think IRS would compromise its ability to do what it was designed for.

Nikked · 08-08-2009, 10:05 AM

Exactly, Holden utes are espresso machines

Spitfire 6.2 · 08-08-2009, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

its a ute! they are built to carry heavy stuff. if they wanted to have a coil rear in the ute, and still offer a 1 tonne version, they would need to spend a whole lot of money on the rear end - something they don't have a lot of.

Not every ute carries heavy (more that 3/4 tonne) stuff, The majority if not all buyers of the XR6, XR6T, XR8 or even a Pursuit, Super Pursuit and F6 Ute (dont forget the wagon) would prefer IRS. FPV even calls the Super Pursuit "a serious sports coupe". It would be if it had IRS. 1 tonne is only an option on the cab chassis. It should be the other way around, with IRS across the range and a 1 tonne leaf spring option for the people who actually want it.
Hey, dont get me wrong, I love the Falcon ute, but Holden Ute does have a better rear end.......Ford needs to fix it.

FPV+fteT3 · 08-08-2009, 11:20 AM

As far as the utes go my mate has a commodore drag car and ute he hooked the trailer on the back and towed the car to the drags wore out the rear tyres on his ute due to the weight in the back putting a rediculous camber on rear wheels. Towed same trailer with the s/p no worries as even with weight the wheel camber remains same. After all it's a work ute not a sudan.

GT69 · 08-08-2009, 11:47 AM

Im mixed on the leaf spring/IRS issue, I can say my FG XR6T is downright horrible on alot of roads (Drive along any road in Toowoomba.....) It really does spoil the experience alittle for me. In saying that, I've never driven a Holden ute, I cant compare the two.

I have a sneaking suspicion the Turbo wins everything with journos because both Ford and Holden people love them. Nothing more.

In the coming months I'll be looking in to stabilizing the rear end of my ute + Lowering it as the max weight i carry is around 250kg's at any one time

JG66ME · 08-08-2009, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V8 Man

Having a go at the falcon for still using a leaf sprung rear end, IT'S A UTE!
As a tradesman who demands a V8 one tonner for work, Ford is the ONLY manufacturer who produces a vehicle anywhere near what I require (at least you can fit a tray/body, and beef up the back springs). Have we all forgotten what utes were designed for?

I am with you on this. I use my XR6 ute to carry loads.

Stupid review in my books.

downthetrack · 08-08-2009, 03:24 PM

Is that the same bloke who used to write in Australian Ute before it went bung? Lots of those paragraphs look cut and pasted as I swear ive read a very similar articles to that around 12-18 months ago.

prydey · 08-08-2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnews

Just because a car gets to 100km/h quicker does not mean it is a better all round engine for everyday needs. Anybody that thinks otherwise is just plain stupid. Take the blinkers off

4vman once put a poll up asking whether people would rather a car that 'felt' quick or one that 'was' quick.
i think this comparo shows that mr dowling obviously prefers a car that 'feels' quick rather than one that 'is' quicker. 'seat of the pants' or 'bum o meter' is not the most accurate way to measure cars, esp some cars these days that are quite refined and get the job done without making a fuss. as mentioned earlier in the thread, topgear had the same thing with an audi wagon up against the r8 wagon. holden felt like it was going fast but the audi drilled it.

its obviously an old holden ute as well if its 'pre' AFM.

castellan · 08-08-2009, 06:07 PM

Well i have had a XB XC & XG ute and 2 VS commodore ute's and 1 vy ss ute. and a 1992 mazda bravo ute.
I would rate the falcon ute's rear springs as good.
And my VS commo ute's as better than the ford's. but commos need better shocks than std. they tend to pitch and dive more then the old falcons and kingswood leaf springs, but in my experience. but then VS handled better with more weight. i think due to it's rubber blocks. keeping it more stable. that said, my commos had lowered suspension ect. they needed that, because they did not handle in std form.
The VY is crap for weight. the diff sits to low, and it will hit the ground. but by using Polly bags you can Carry a fair bit of weight.
But with the so called mazda 1 tonne . it would carry 1 tonne. but safely! no way! i think with about 800 KG on. anything over 60 km/h was dangerous. you could not take any evasion action if a serious situation came about. but with the VS commos, i could sit on 100 KM/H with about 800 KG no problem, but had to look out and slow down. if the road turned nasty. the main problem with having a tray is that the weight is up high. and with a ute it's sitting down low. were ya want it to be.
So the main problem is that people don't want a ride that bust ya ****!
But there can be solutions.

1TUFFUTE · 09-08-2009, 10:31 AM

id be interested to no if anyone does no if in the v8 ute racing..the holdons and fords run with there respective stock rear suspensions...because from memory i havnt seen any particular special domination on the track because of the holdon suspension. Thefore with the xr8 being quicker in a straight line...whats so bad about there horse an cart suspension...seeing as the race boys can probably carry all there own gear to the track in the ute hahaha(fords only)

Watto_Cobra · 09-08-2009, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

id be interested to no if anyone does no if in the v8 ute racing..the holdons and fords run with there respective stock rear suspensions...because from memory i havnt seen any particular special domination on the track because of the holdon suspension. Thefore with the xr8 being quicker in a straight line...whats so bad about there horse an cart suspension...seeing as the race boys can probably carry all there own gear to the track in the ute hahaha(fords only)

Rear suspension in the ute racing is same config as what we buy. Commos have extra grunt down the straights and the Falcs make it up through the corners, which seems like a contradiction. :togo:

f1tzy · 09-08-2009, 02:01 PM

I had a vz s ute manual and it understeered much worse than my nose heavy xr8 ute. If you tried to go around a corner fast in the commo the front would just push wide to the edge of the road while in my xr8 its more likely to rip my face off before it understeers (has had a little bit of suspension work tho)

4Vman · 09-08-2009, 03:03 PM

The ute racing series run stock factory suspension configurations but a homologated performance specification with a control Motec EMS which controls both engines to identical power and torque outputs...

nugget378 · 09-08-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The ute racing series run stock factory suspension configurations .

No they dont really, spring rates, shocks, camber etc etc are no where near stock..

4Vman · 09-08-2009, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugget378

No they dont really, spring rates, shocks, camber etc etc are no where near stock..

Yeah for sure.. but the poster i was replying to was wondering if both shared similar rear ends, all i was saying is both use factory configurations (IRS v Leaf), albiet with different springs, swaybars shocks etc....

nugget378 · 09-08-2009, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Yeah for sure.. but the poster i was replying to was wondering if both shared similar rear ends, all i was saying is both use factory configurations (IRS v Leaf), albiet with different springs, swaybars shocks etc....

Just went back and read the thread, which I should have done earlier, I do agree that a ute should be primarily a work/load carrying vehicle and leaf speings do fit the bill cheaply and easily.
I dont have any complaint with the ride of my BF, better than a hilux anyway :P these journo's need to harden up...

z80 · 09-08-2009, 05:50 PM

Can't recall the last time I saw an XR6T or SSV ute ute carrying anything in the back.

Hell...it would scratch the paint and maybe dirty the wheels taking it into the paddock.

Get a grip, we all know they are the poor mans performance cars...

2 seats..bahhhh

Smoke Pursuit · 09-08-2009, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by z80

Can't recall the last time I saw an XR6T or SSV ute ute carrying anything in the back.

Hell...it would scratch the paint and maybe dirty the wheels taking it into the paddock.

Get a grip, we all know they are the poor mans performance cars...

2 seats..bahhhh

Not true...

I know plenty of them that get worked pretty hard.. My XR6 gets a load in it from time to time!

GT69 · 09-08-2009, 06:45 PM

And my turbo carries work crap all the time.

galaxy xr8 · 09-08-2009, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by z80

Can't recall the last time I saw an XR6T or SSV ute ute carrying anything in the back.

Hell...it would scratch the paint and maybe dirty the wheels taking it into the paddock.

Get a grip, we all know they are the poor mans performance cars...

2 seats..bahhhh

If you have nothing constructive to say maybe you should try and not SAY anything at all.

:

b2tf · 09-08-2009, 06:50 PM

..........in stark contrast my XR8s have never, and will never, carry anything!

nugget378 · 09-08-2009, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by z80

Can't recall the last time I saw an XR6T or SSV ute ute carrying anything in the back.

Hell...it would scratch the paint and maybe dirty the wheels taking it into the paddock.

Get a grip, we all know they are the poor mans performance cars...

2 seats..bahhhh

300kg of tools almost constantly in mine, and I use it to travel to the farm, which entails a 5km track that some 4wd owners would balk at, yes it has the scars to show for it, but its a ute and can be easily used as such if you want too.