![]() |
|
Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated. |
|
The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
![]() |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
![]() |
#31 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,876
|
I knew a bloke who is based in Adelaide and does building work in metro and country areas and even in rural NSW and VIC.
Back in 1998 he traded in his 4.5l Landcruiser diesel on a XH Falcon ute (thanks to a recommendation from me), purely due to comfort issues as his back was being pummelled on long distance drives in the Toyota. Well to say he thinks the Falcon is a better tow car is an understatement, he can overtakes to 140 clicks towing two tonne on the back no problem at all (and this is on LPG), whereas his Landcruiser would often struggle to maintain the speed limit when towing. His economy figures with the Falcon is much better on LPG than the Landcruiser too (was saving about 150 bucks a month with the Falcon). Since then a couple of new Falcon utes have joined it - including a FG eGas, but his original XH is still daily used by his apprentices and now has over 300,000km and is still going strong. I even know how well my Fairmont tows a horse float, so a turbo Territory would be a fantastic tow car. Its a bit of a **** in this country over diesels being used as tow cars, the best tow car I have ever driven was a AU fairlane V8 on gas, felt fantastic. But hey I wouldnt mind the new gen 6.7litre diesel in the F350 in the other thread...! Last edited by Brazen; 30-05-2010 at 12:47 PM. |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#32 | ||
PHATXR8
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Canberra
Posts: 290
|
A 4.2L turbo diesel Nissan wouldn't pull your brother off your sister. A Turbo Territory will eat a 4.2TD alive.
I know this for a fact because my wife has a Turbo Terri and my brother owns a 4.2TD Nissan which he often pulls horse floats with...it is a slug - they aren't even EFI. A multi valve 4.2TD EFI multi valve Landcruiser is a totally different kettle of fish, as are the V8 4.5L TD Landcruisers in another league of their own. |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#33 | |||
I am Groot
![]() Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burnett Heads, Qld
Posts: 6,840
|
Quote:
__________________
.. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() "Those were the days when the cars were cars, they weren't built out of an Ikea pack like they are now and clothed in plastic; they were real cars." John Bowe |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#34 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,876
|
Quote:
Yeah it was the 4.2, the series before the longer cab one. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#35 | |||
Performance moderator
![]() Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: St Clair..N.S.W
Posts: 14,875
|
Quote:
I agree the N/A diesels are slugs with pulling decent load..
__________________
Real cars are not driven by front wheels,real cars lift them!!... BABYS ARE BOTTLE FED, REAL MEN GET BLOWN. Don't be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark...Professionals built the Titanic! Dart 330ci block turbo black pearl EBXR8 482 rwkw.. Daily driver GTE FG.. Projects http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=107711 http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...8+turbo&page=4 |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#36 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 423
|
Your comparing speed of a Turbo Petrol to a Deseil turbo??
Your comparing a Patrol to a Terry?? (excuse me while I ponder the best place to start with this) By the way - the patrol pulls 3.5t and thats the gov limit not the cars - the Terry - 2.3t. Think you'll find the strenght of the terry gearbox can't do too much with 254kw with a bit of weight behind it - or the brakes to stop it. . Last edited by fairBA; 31-05-2010 at 02:38 PM. |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#37 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Utah
Posts: 3,479
|
Here's more info on another Ford diesel engine coming out. http://green.autoblog.com/2010/05/28...x-f150-engine/
4.4L V8, CGI block, 230kw/700Nm - made for Range Rover, hopefully it will be used by Ford internally also. |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#38 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,224
|
Quote:
My simple argument to him was this; With loads being equal, and torque being almost equal (TT prob has more, i have no idea what his makes), then the extra power of the TT will give it the advantage. Not to mention the short rev range of a turbo diesel, meaning he'll be in 3rd gear whilst i might still be pulling away in 2nd. Personally i would never compare a turbo diesel patrol to a TT, it is an unfair comparison, but my mates won't stop with the banter about the torque of a diesel... I honestly don't think he understands how much torque a TT makes, i might need to take him for a drive. I know that a turbo diesel with the right motor combination will make heaps of torque and power (eg: Audi Q7 with the twin turbo V12, 1000Nm and 360-370kw or so, and claimed ~12L/100km), now that thing would flog most things up a hill, towing a tonne or not! |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#39 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,876
|
Nissan Patrol has 380Nm of torque (less than a stock Falcon XT), but it would be low down in the rev range making it usable.
|
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#40 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 423
|
This a completetly useless test that proves nothing. The Patrol is worlds above the Terry. Torque is not a measure of speed and Kws are not a measure of towing ability.
|
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#41 | |||
Banana
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Wandin North, VIC
Posts: 2,031
|
Quote:
![]() I've got a mate with a 4.2 TD Patrol and it's a slug, he's just fitted a 3" exhaust to it to make it even slightly more driveable. At least with my TTG I can comfortably accelerate to overtake towing either my 2.2T caravan or my 2.1T wakeboat, whereas he certainly can't. As an on-road tow vehicle, without regard for fuel consumption, the Terri wins hands down. The current issue of "Caravan and Motorhome" has a full test of several tow vehicles, including a Patrol (TD)and a Terri (NA). I don't have the full article but a clip from one test. 0 - 80km/h, Patrol did it in 24.07s (I suspect 3.0l TD, but maybe not. The 4.2 would be slightly quicker), whilst the Terri did it in 11.45s (this was listed as the quickest of all vehicles tested, a TT would be even quicker. Will try to get my hands on the whole article Matty
__________________
2024 Ford Ranger Wildtrak V6 w/PP 2012 WK2 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland CRD |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#42 | ||
Half an aussie garage!!
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 351
|
Remember the OP is comparing territories with Patrol diesels in particular.. and it seems that everyone who has 'heard that diesels are OK' seems to be backing the patrol.. anyone that has owned a patrol diesel knows better.
The 3L is a joke.. nissan have been trying to get it right for years and have failed (IMO).. now they are putting a Renault engine in them to try and get them right. and at the same time making them 300kg heavier. I have owned a couple of patrols, we only get them for the amount room and rear airconditioning. The engine is uselss uphill or into the wind.. towing or otherwise. Towing a one ton trailer we nearly didn't make it up to Jindabyne (not over the mountains but from VIC side) due to overheating (on a freezing cold day). When you go up a hill, you have to get keep the revs under 3000rpm to avoid overheating,, this means 2nd gear and 40kmph, they wont hold in 3rd. Even while not towing.. we had to get 2nd gear getting up to mt baw baw (2nd gear!!), only 3 or 4 degrees that day.. and it started to get hot. Useless engines.. maybe the french engine will fix the issues but now that they are 2800 odd kilos I don't think so. Economy. the truth is they get about 11L/100 not towing and cruising along at 100kmph. Towing they get anywhere from 14 up to 20 L/100, depending upon the wind. Both of our patrols have been new, one manual and one auto. |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#43 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bat Cave
Posts: 1,237
|
i remember being in a mates lil econobox on the way to greendale for some camping and moto riding
we were flat out up the western highway when his bro in law in the el/ef wagon packed full of camping gear for 8 people and 4 dirtbikes on the trailer (drz400 wr450 xr650 and my xr250 :( LOL @ me) flew past us like we were standing still! crappy econo box couldnt catch it up the pentland hills!! sure it wasnt towing 3ton but hey, thats how i need to tow.... i dont have a tow bar but i think the g6e would be better than a 3L patrol for anything up to 2 ton.... after much hype i did 1500km in an auto 3.0L td patrol and the only positive thing i could say about it...... it used less fuel than i expected i averaged 12L/100km and it did standstills! ran a fair amount of boost from memory (plugged in obdII scanner) 12-14psi i believe but very slow on take off, i was convinced they weren't slow... but i was wrong (fast as in 4wd truck, not passenger car) |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#44 | ||
Banana
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Wandin North, VIC
Posts: 2,031
|
Looking at the fuel consumption figures on the test provides some interesting reading.
The Patrol consumed 20.98l/100km (diesel) whilst the Terri consumed 21.06l/100km (petrol). They were obviously towing the same van along the same route. Hate to have bought that diesel Patrol for the economy!!!!
__________________
2024 Ford Ranger Wildtrak V6 w/PP 2012 WK2 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland CRD |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#45 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
|
|
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#46 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,224
|
Quote:
My mates continued banter is about the 'torque' of a 4.2L TD 4X4... A TT has more torque, and more power... If we were talking dirt roads, rough terrain then obviously the TD patrol is the winner. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#47 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 5,414
|
Quote:
No doubt the TT is quicker than my Paj, but that's about the extent of the accolades for the Terri, period. My experience of both tells me the Paj goes in 2wd where the useless AWD system in Terri simply bogs it down and bellies it. In sand that is. I'd comfortably to a load (up to 3T in the Paj) long distances (including steep hills) in the Paj over the TT, and use less fuel too. On a good day my TTG averaged 14-15l/100km, the Paj averages mid 11's around town. Most modern common rail turbo diesel engines make good power, torque and return excellent fuel economy. There's a reason why Ford are putting a V6 TDI in the Territory ![]()
__________________
2021 BMW M550i in Black Sapphire Metallic.
11.52 @ 120mph stock Last edited by Romulus; 31-05-2010 at 08:36 PM. Reason: spelling etc |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#48 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,224
|
Quote:
You're in a position to make an accurate comparison, so; Would your TTG tow a tonne of sand up a hill quicker then your Pajero lol... I understand that turbo diesels are great cars these days! But the car in question is from the early 90s... Either way, i didn't buy the wife TT to tow or go off road. I bought it because i used to own an XR6T with 300rwkw, and i'm addicted to the easy power of the 6T motor! |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#49 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
|
Quote:
|
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#50 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 5,414
|
Quote:
Back to the orginal question, yes, I do believe the TT would tow the load quicker than the Pootrol. The older diesel engines are truly like truck engines; slow to rev, noisy, smokey and low in power and torque.
__________________
2021 BMW M550i in Black Sapphire Metallic.
11.52 @ 120mph stock |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#51 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 5,414
|
Quote:
Transfer case ratio high:low 1:1.9, the Territory does not have a high/low transfer case. Infact, it doesn't even have a lockable transfer case! Diff ratio in the Paj is 3.917:1 versus 3.46:1 in the TT. I've added taller tyres (275/75/17 compared to factory 265/65/17) giving it around 10% taller gearing.
__________________
2021 BMW M550i in Black Sapphire Metallic.
11.52 @ 120mph stock |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#52 | ||
Just cruisin
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 235
|
Just thought i'd add my 3.0T patrol can do 0-100 in 22.4 seconds and 400m in about 23 seconds just after it hits 100, but it does weigh 3000kg.
__________________
___________________ BA LTD 5.4 |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#53 | ||
Performance moderator
![]() Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: St Clair..N.S.W
Posts: 14,875
|
Any one who races a Terri up a hill with a ton of sand wants his head read !!!
It'll do it.. But chances are it could kill it also !!! I guess this going to done in a company car ??? Long wheel base version at that !!
__________________
Real cars are not driven by front wheels,real cars lift them!!... BABYS ARE BOTTLE FED, REAL MEN GET BLOWN. Don't be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark...Professionals built the Titanic! Dart 330ci block turbo black pearl EBXR8 482 rwkw.. Daily driver GTE FG.. Projects http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=107711 http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...8+turbo&page=4 |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#54 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,876
|
Quote:
My old 260,000km AU charges up hills towing 50% more than that. I bet you wouldnt even feel a tonne in a Territory Turbo. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#55 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
|
Quote:
|
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#56 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 5,414
|
Quote:
![]()
__________________
2021 BMW M550i in Black Sapphire Metallic.
11.52 @ 120mph stock Last edited by Romulus; 01-06-2010 at 12:02 AM. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#57 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,224
|
GT falcon - thanks for the info, and yep, of course the TT will struggle on any other surface apart from a normal road! I've recently got an app for my N97, racechrono... Pretty keen to see my 0-100km/h time now that i've had a tune and injectors done!
EBXR8240 - I never said i was going to race my TT up a hill with a tonne of sand. It's a hypothetical that my mate brought up. A bit of banter and sledging later, he said his 4.2L TD would beat my TT up a hill towing a tonne of sand... Interestingly, his patrol is a short wheel base... Why do you mention the long wheel base? Is it better? Not that we'll ever race! To be honest, i don't think we really care too much, it's the other mates that stir us up after a couple of beers lol... I'm more interested to know from people who have owned various types of cars and also other peoples theories. |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#58 | ||
Performance moderator
![]() Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: St Clair..N.S.W
Posts: 14,875
|
Aha no the Terri would be stretched ...Totally different body.. The 4wd truck is built for it...
__________________
Real cars are not driven by front wheels,real cars lift them!!... BABYS ARE BOTTLE FED, REAL MEN GET BLOWN. Don't be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark...Professionals built the Titanic! Dart 330ci block turbo black pearl EBXR8 482 rwkw.. Daily driver GTE FG.. Projects http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=107711 http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...8+turbo&page=4 |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#59 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Perth
Posts: 888
|
Terri would blitz it.
Modern Diesels are awsome for towing, but a TT isn't going to even raise a sweat in that senario. My N/A Terri overtakes in 110 zones towing about 1500kg, and a TT would smash my N/A Tezza. I have been driving a new diesel T/D Hilux of late, and rate the Lux as a better tow rig than the N/A tezza, but the the Tezza is quicker even dragging a load. |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#60 | ||
Trev
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Was Perth, now country Vic
Posts: 8,017
|
What would be good is if the Turbo Territory got the FG spec turbo engine rather than the BF unit. The difference is really quite massive. If they had the FG donk I would have bought a Turbo Territory, but as they still have the old design I didn't worry about it.
__________________
Trev (FPV FG II GT-E thus the fully loaded burger with the lot as standard +Alpine/Dynamat fitout - 2 of only 4 ever made GT-E factory 9" rear rims - Michelin Pilot Supersports - Shockworks Suspension) |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |