Focus PowerShift Transmission - Page 2

mik · 08-04-2013, 10:27 PM

Something to consider , and that is the characteristics of the diesel engine, it is fairly slow revving with a smaller rev band than a petrol engine, also it has much higher compression than a petrol engine................... so therefore has a lot of engine braking, couple this with more gears and closer ratios than earlier models,
too me this means it will never be quiet as smooth in operation as the petrol engine, obviously it has it's strengths that owners will like,
speaking about going through round abouts and roll on, how do guys you go just selecting a higher gear and letting the diesel lug though?
This one of the great things about driving big trucks these days, modern diesels have so much torque much less cog swapping is needed, bare in mind I have'nt driven a diesel car for years, but to me the endearing qaulity of the diesel is the low down torque and luggability, not to mention economy.

Franco Cozzo · 09-04-2013, 08:33 PM

Gotta be careful in the manual TDCI Focii, they're torque limited on 1st/2nd gear and its easy to stall.

Theres also a bit of turbo lag there too.

Harilao · 17-04-2013, 11:18 PM

Bought a Focus 1.6lt Ambiente a year ago for the little missus and she loves it. Done 15,000kms. During the test drive she didn't notice anything different about the way the PowerShift drove and a year later she is still happy with it. She is just a regular driver who prefers Automatics.

If it was my day to day car I would have preferred the 2lt but for the little woman as a day to day runabout the 1.6 is fine.

My day to day drive is a 2003 Mazda6 with Activematic 4sp auto with manual controls. And I tend to drive it like a manual most of the time. So when I get into the Focus I also drive it like a manual most of the time. I found it a bit frustrating at first because it is quite different to a traditional auto box and in my case compared to the M6 it drives differently. The M6 slushes from gear to gear but the Focus has a bit of a manual car feel. But I have learnt to adjust my driving style and I now really enjoy drive the Focus and now prefer it to my M6.

So here are some of my tips regarding regarding the powershift and getting the best out of it.

When in D mode you can temporarily override the gear selection with the +/- buttons and it will eventually go back to D. However it will always hold the manual selection if you are going down a hill and you have your foot OFF the accelerator. Once you start using the accelerator again it will switch back to D. This is great for fuel economy and saving your brakes as the computer shuts off the fuel during this time. I use this all the time. I find my hilly suburb I get MUCH better economy than my wife does who just leaves it in D.

If you switch to sport S mode the transmission is still in Automatic gear change mode [provided you don't touch the +/- buttons] but much more responsive, less likely to use 6th gear but it will also automatically change down a gear going down a hill with your foot OFF the accelerator, but it can be very aggressive in changing down one too many times for my liking causing the engine to rev near red line.

If in S mode and you start using the +/- buttons then it behaves like my M6 in manual mode, you are in full control of the gear selection. To exit this mode you have to go back to D.

The best description for this transmission is that it is a manual with an computer controlled automated clutch. But even that is too simple a description as it actually has a 2nd clutch where the computer preselects the next gear then it disengages one clutch while engaging the next and makes for a very quick and smooth gear change. In an expensive sports car this is done in a few short mill-seconds much faster than any human can.

I have on rare occasions caught out this system where it must have preselected a higher gear when suddenly I brake just as it was about to change up. To me it feels like at this point the gearbox it goes into neutral while it figures out what gear it needs to be before re-enganging the clutch. I think this might be what some people are describing earlier - maybe.

And just like any manual you need to treat your clutch with some respect, if you always tramp on the accelerator from stand still you will stress the clutch surface causing it to wear unevenly and it may start to shudder a bit. The solution to this is to drive sedately for a while and try to wear the clutch surface back to a smoother finish. I find in stop start traffic were you are just crawling along it can have a slight shudder, I take this to be due to the clutch only partially engaging to inch the car forward at slow speed. I read somewhere that the Engineers try to program the thing to be as close to a traditional auto box as possible.

I found this link which sheds some light on how PowerShift transmissions work. I don't know if the Ford version acts exactly like this, but it seems it mostly does.
http://www.mkv-gti.net/library/trans...h/DSG-FAQ.html

junior65 · 18-04-2013, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harilao

Bought a Focus 1.6lt Ambiente a year ago for the little missus and she loves it. Done 15,000kms. During the test drive she didn't notice anything different about the way the PowerShift drove and a year later she is still happy with it. She is just a regular driver who prefers Automatics.

If it was my day to day car I would have preferred the 2lt but for the little woman as a day to day runabout the 1.6 is fine.

My day to day drive is a 2003 Mazda6 with Activematic 4sp auto with manual controls. And I tend to drive it like a manual most of the time. So when I get into the Focus I also drive it like a manual most of the time. I found it a bit frustrating at first because it is quite different to a traditional auto box and in my case compared to the M6 it drives differently. The M6 slushes from gear to gear but the Focus has a bit of a manual car feel. But I have learnt to adjust my driving style and I now really enjoy drive the Focus and now prefer it to my M6.

So here are some of my tips regarding regarding the powershift and getting the best out of it.

When in D mode you can temporarily override the gear selection with the +/- buttons and it will eventually go back to D. However it will always hold the manual selection if you are going down a hill and you have your foot OFF the accelerator. Once you start using the accelerator again it will switch back to D. This is great for fuel economy and saving your brakes as the computer shuts off the fuel during this time. I use this all the time. I find my hilly suburb I get MUCH better economy than my wife does who just leaves it in D.

If you switch to sport S mode the transmission is still in Automatic gear change mode [provided you don't touch the +/- buttons] but much more responsive, less likely to use 6th gear but it will also automatically change down a gear going down a hill with your foot OFF the accelerator, but it can be very aggressive in changing down one too many times for my liking causing the engine to rev near red line.

If in S mode and you start using the +/- buttons then it behaves like my M6 in manual mode, you are in full control of the gear selection. To exit this mode you have to go back to D.

The best description for this transmission is that it is a manual with an computer controlled automated clutch. But even that is too simple a description as it actually has a 2nd clutch where the computer preselects the next gear then it disengages one clutch while engaging the next and makes for a very quick and smooth gear change. In an expensive sports car this is done in a few short mill-seconds much faster than any human can.

I have on rare occasions caught out this system where it must have preselected a higher gear when suddenly I brake just as it was about to change up. To me it feels like at this point the gearbox it goes into neutral while it figures out what gear it needs to be before re-enganging the clutch. I think this might be what some people are describing earlier - maybe.

And just like any manual you need to treat your clutch with some respect, if you always tramp on the accelerator from stand still you will stress the clutch surface causing it to wear unevenly and it may start to shudder a bit. The solution to this is to drive sedately for a while and try to wear the clutch surface back to a smoother finish. I find in stop start traffic were you are just crawling along it can have a slight shudder, I take this to be due to the clutch only partially engaging to inch the car forward at slow speed. I read somewhere that the Engineers try to program the thing to be as close to a traditional auto box as possible.

I found this link which sheds some light on how PowerShift transmissions work. I don't know if the Ford version acts exactly like this, but it seems it mostly does.
http://www.mkv-gti.net/library/trans...h/DSG-FAQ.html

Thanks for this Harilao. I have a 2.0 Titanium PowerShift, and am experiencing a problem at slow speeds. When crawling in traffic and I touch the gas and then let my foot off, it sometimes continues to rev higher. It seems to be in between gears or something. It's a bit disconcerting though as the car continues to accelerate (albeit slowly) without me doing anything. Then, when I brake it feels like the engine is pulling against the brakes, and stopping distance is increased. Ford say this is normal. I live in Bangkok and the traffic here is horrendous, and I spend most of my time in it. BTW, I'm on this forum as the cars for the Australian market are made here and mine is the same spec. Have you experienced anything similar? Thanks.

Harilao · 21-04-2013, 02:02 PM

junior65
Can't say I have had exactly what you described, just a rare indecision occurring as described in my post above where it gets caught out between accelerating and braking. Maybe we are talking about the same thing. In my description above I said it goes into neutral while it figures out what to do, I think I have had it where it engages the higher gear just as I go from the accelerator to the brake pedal and it feels like it wants to go when I want to stop. So that kinda sounds like what you are describing. I have been to Bangkok and you certainly have a lot more stop start traffic compared to me.

junior65 · 21-04-2013, 02:29 PM

Hi Harilao,

Thanks so much for your reply.

Yes, it does seem a similar issue - the gearbox seems to be in between gears as you say. Then it selects the higher gear and wants to go just as I want to stop. Anyway, it's going back to Ford this Saturday for them to take a look. I'll post if anything changes. Thanks again for your response.

Chicka · 25-05-2013, 03:27 PM

Gooday All....Yes, I am facing a personal dilemma regarding the PowerShift Transmission. I drive a 2007 Focus TDCI Hatch 62,000 kms 6 speed Manual
no DPF. This is the best car I have ever owned or driven.
Apart from having to replace the 3 x Engine Mounts @ 33.000kms ..Just out of Warranty of course, and the starter motor at 47.000 kms...Total costs of $ 1350.00...It has been unreal. I am in my sixties, and I would like to upgrade to a LW TDCI Sport Hatch. Unfortunately, only available with PowerShift.
There seem to be a lot of owners out there dissatisfied with this gearbox ,making me feel reluctant to purchase.
IF you are an LW Focus TDCI owner , I would greatly appreciate your comments
( positive or negative). I am pleased to have read some existing comments in the above pages which appear to be quite positive...good to see.
Also, any comments on the " build quality" of the LW/LW2 Focus's.
Are the Thai Built units comparable to the German built ?
Would love your thoughts on these matters....
Oldmate Chicka from Cairns:

wombat66 · 25-05-2013, 04:53 PM

No problems with our Focus auto at all. Really happy with it. Drive one and see if you like it.

jonrothwell · 04-06-2013, 06:51 PM

My wife just bought a Focus trend. She has always had Fairlane 6's and V8's and driven my Jaguar 6's and V12's whenever needed. She is a real lead foot and killed 3 Magnas before getting into the large Fords.
When we decided to buy a new car there was the choice of many models that we were able to buy including a good second hand Ford LTD or late V8 Jag, having driven several different cars my wife chose the new Focus Trend. This was due to the larger Direct Injection petrol engine, the better electronics, and the auto box which she loved on the test drive as it was well suited to her driving style.
Now having owned the car for 6 months we are very pleased with it, the fuel consumption (we live in the country) is fantastic, and even compared to my XJ8 Jag the comfort and general features are stunning. Overall we are both very happy with the gearbox and it only shudders when the driver is indecisive about acceleration.
I would be quite happy to buy one of these and sell my Jags if I wasn't such a brand snob (the Jag is a Ford anyway), as the Focus is just such a well sorted car.

Menco · 08-06-2013, 04:13 PM

So would I be right in thinking that the wet clutch with the diesel is a little smoother than the petrol dry clutch? Looking at diesel hatches myself and I am a little wary or a dual clutch gearbox, but if it uses a wet clutch setup it might be ok.

spvd02 · 08-06-2013, 06:49 PM

Dual clutch transmissions, to me at least, are more desirable than a traditional torque-converter setup, especially when paired with a small engine.

They ensure the car runs very efficiently, combined with no loss of power. Surely you could put up with some characteristics if it means you get these benefits?

If they're covered by a good warranty, what's there to worry about? Just go and buy one!

marg99 · 08-06-2013, 06:56 PM

great idea if you get rid of them before warranty expires. With all the bad publicity the VW DSG boxes get people may well favor more reliable and traditional transmissions.

Menco · 08-06-2013, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spvd02

If they're covered by a good warranty, what's there to worry about? Just go and buy one!

What is the warranty like on the Focus? I saw 3 year but also saw 5 year for the drivetrain, is that correct?

spvd02 · 08-06-2013, 07:44 PM

fair point, but a lot of technology in new cars is expensive to fix if it breaks. Consider injectors at $900 a pop, or the astronomical cost of anything that breaks in a diesel.

Really, the dual clutch trans is just another piece of technology that will become common-place as time goes by. Cost shouldn't be any worse than any other major mechanical fault, especially since the cars with this technology are still offered at a competitive price (ie cost to produce must be pretty good)

As far as reliability goes, it's like anything. Some examples are dodgy, and they're the ones you hear about. For every dodgy one, there would be plenty more that aren't. Look after it, and in most cases it should look after you.

We wouldn't want technological advancements to stall just so that we can stick with what we know is reliable. No doubt a lot of R&D has been done to ensure that this piece of technology, too, will go the distance.

spvd02 · 08-06-2013, 07:45 PM

I extended my warranty to 5 years, but it came with 3. Not sure about the drive-train.

Yellow_Festiva · 15-06-2013, 12:45 AM

Mine has buggered up at 66k. Ford told me violent vibrations are normal and that its characteristic of the box. Sure. It just started playing up after getting it back from them to fix their last stuff up.

After blowing my stack they will look into it further. We shall see what use the extended warranty is.

3.5 years of calm, sedate driving. What a joke. Don't buy the powershift, it's an over complicated solution to a basic problem....

Now I know why Ford still only offer 3yrs warranty, goes to show the quality of the product.

mutanti · 15-06-2013, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Mine has buggered up at 66k. Ford told me violent vibrations are normal and that its characteristic of the box. Sure. It just started playing up after getting it back from them to fix their last stuff up.

After blowing my stack they will look into it further. We shall see what use the extended warranty is.

3.5 years of calm, sedate driving. What a joke. Don't buy the powershift, it's an over complicated solution to a basic problem....

Now I know why Ford still only offer 3yrs warranty, goes to show the quality of the product.

My Focus is Covered until Feb-2019 or 175,000KMs
Looks like its a dealer specific Extended Type Warranty

marg99 · 15-06-2013, 06:35 PM

Mate works for VW says no buyers since DSG publicity. No one wants to touch them now.
Shows what consumers can do if the car makers play games and hide faults.

Yellow_Festiva · 15-06-2013, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mutanti

My Focus is Covered until Feb-2019 or 175,000KMs
Looks like its a dealer specific Extended Type Warranty

Yup, mine is the same. When I collected the car the service manager was already setting me up for a 'NO' from the warranty people. Using words like "I'll try my best", "I'll explain that it's not wear and tear", etc etc etc etc blah blah blah.

The only thing going for me is that I have some big wigs from Ford CRC watching over things because the dealership has proven to be incompetant on several occasions now.

They were going to call me Friday with an answer but didn't, which means they are still trying to get it through or the people from the CRC are working out a way to get it done to my satisfaction (hope so).

If the answer was a no, I would have known by now I assume.

Yellow_Festiva · 15-06-2013, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marg99

Mate works for VW says no buyers since DSG publicity. No one wants to touch them now.
Shows what consumers can do if the car makers play games and hide faults.

Good... Nothing is more of a slap to the face when you KNOW very well the car has issues and they tell you "No, nothing wrong here, running as designed, a characteristic of the car"... like they tried to tell me with my issue.

junior65 · 15-06-2013, 09:47 PM

3,000km on the clock and 4 months in, my PowerShift is behaving brilliantly. Yes, you do get the odd indecision, but it's over in a split second. Besides, I found myself stuck between gears on occasion when driving a normal manual. Compared to a traditional auto, this wins hands down - power and good fuel consumption, but driving like an auto. I just hope it stays this way!

WILDB · 15-06-2013, 10:52 PM

The wet clutch versions (diesel LV/LW/Mondeo) are normally quite good and I would consider one.

The only thing to think about is that the 60,000km service on a vehicle with the wet clutch PS involves changing the fluid in the gearbox amongst other things and runs in the vicinity of $950.

Franco Cozzo · 16-06-2013, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WILDB

The wet clutch versions (diesel LV/LW/Mondeo) are normally quite good and I would consider one.

The only thing to think about is that the 60,000km service on a vehicle with the wet clutch PS involves changing the fluid in the gearbox amongst other things and runs in the vicinity of $950.

Meh, 40,000km services on all Honda's are $700 at the dealership due to valve clearances, 80,000km is close to $1000 due to fuel filter and valve clearances and they don't have DSGs, just a junk 5sp auto, which in 6 months of working there at least 5 or so a week were coming out for warranty.

You could do worse.

WILDB · 17-06-2013, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

You could do worse.

Absolutely, I know this from first hand experience - that pales by comparison to some other everyday manufacturers.

I merely mentioned it so that the info was out there, some people don't realize (or bother to check) then blow up about it when the 60k comes around.

ritaben · 19-06-2013, 05:50 PM

Why pay Ford $690 for DRL's when you can get these delivered for under $100, complete with controller/harness.
Mine arrived today (19 days from date of order) but won't be fitting them for a couple of weeks, going fishing.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/EMS-F...764682920.html

Sorry wrong page to post

mrmavx · 14-07-2013, 01:34 PM

well 33k on the clock of my petrol titanium and the box has to come out due to severe shudders in 2nd 4th and 6th gears when you try to accelerate and the revs are below 2000, dealer has told me that they have had a couple of boxes out allready and that they get sent to ford to be done and that it takes about a week but that depends on what is wrong (clutches and oil leak on to them is the shortest) but one of them took 16 weeks due to other internal issues not happy as this car spends 90% of its time just cruising the highway in 6th gear

mrmavx

Yellow_Festiva · 14-07-2013, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmavx

well 33k on the clock of my petrol titanium and the box has to come out due to severe shudders in 2nd 4th and 6th gears when you try to accelerate and the revs are below 2000, dealer has told me that they have had a couple of boxes out allready and that they get sent to ford to be done and that it takes about a week but that depends on what is wrong (clutches and oil leak on to them is the shortest) but one of them took 16 weeks due to other internal issues not happy as this car spends 90% of its time just cruising the highway in 6th gear

mrmavx

Keep records of this work. Part of the repair should (I assume) be new transmission fluid. Get a receipt / proof of what was done when you get it back as (in theory) you then won't need to do the 60K powershift service (costing 400-450) till 93K km.

Focus39rickb · 14-07-2013, 05:57 PM

Hi Gang. My first log to a forum would you believe!
I have August 2012 build German Focus Trend. Just had 15k service.
No complaints at all with the car. Except.... mangled one tyre on the West Gate bridge in Melbourne. A devil of a problem to get another to match.

Samurai_Chris · 14-07-2013, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ritaben

Why pay Ford $690 for DRL's when you can get these delivered for under $100, complete with controller/harness.
Mine arrived today (19 days from date of order) but won't be fitting them for a couple of weeks, going fishing.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/EMS-F...764682920.html

Sorry wrong page to post

Ha ha yeah mate, mine are still installed but not connected.. I am the dumbest bastard when it comes to this stuff!

Sorry, wrong page to reply...

WILDB · 14-07-2013, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Keep records of this work. Part of the repair should (I assume) be new transmission fluid. Get a receipt / proof of what was done when you get it back as (in theory) you then won't need to do the 60K powershift service (costing 400-450) till 93K km.

The dry clutch version doesn't have the fluid changed at 60k.