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#31 | ||
you'd be popular too.....
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 287
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**edit** already said in a previous post
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:eclipsee_ |
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#32 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,798
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Quote:
15-17L That thing was stuck in 1st gear and reving it's head off. 11.3L last time I checked with my 4sp auto BFII around town.
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Daniel |
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#33 | |||
they call me Tibbo
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 6,163
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Quote:
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#34 | |||
Poor IT dude
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: WA
Posts: 168
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Quote:
Everyone knows that if you buy a base model Falcon it isn't going to be worth jack in 2 years. |
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#35 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 120
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Quote:
Yeah I found my previous VZ was actually really good around town on fuel, but my AU before that was pretty thirsty (its tall first gear didnt help) obviously im comparing cars a few years years apart. But gee 10.8 litres per 100k for a 1.7 tonne family sedan around town is pretty bloody good, no matter which brand you follow, Camrys would use more than that im sure. |
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#36 | ||
Getting it done.....
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 2,219
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It seems pretty damn obvious to me this is totally fleet motivated. Its not like Holden is selling too many of these omega sedans, wagons or utes to private buyers, so the fact the VE is now totally outclassed in terms of performance, refinement and yes, still fuel burn is of no consequence.
Anyone out there looking to buy a large car (or any car) will tell you times are tough, you don't have to go far to see crazy deals on new cars. Holden is probably the worst at this.....they have chopped the proverbial out of their commodore pricing lately. I saw an ad for a anniversary model not long ago on tv for $33k drive away....it had all the usual additions like aloys, spoiler, leather trim, even dvd. Now i know ford has territories going for $37k drive away SR models but that is an old car and is updated soon....the VE ain't that old. Ford has already tried out methods for moving pre august build FGs....fleet discounts for everyone (and bugger all if you want a new build). The point here is that holden is keeping commodore numbers up by crazy fleet discounting.....aurion sales are down, as are falcon, but VE still looks ok on paper. The percentage fleet in the VE right now must be very high (have seen numerous omega sportwagons already). The fleets are looking for the best deal, and while holden has chopped out the price of the cars up front, the high fuel burn of the VE (not just on paper, people who drive them every day will tell you) is hurting. To avoid losing sales, they basically take the HO engine (which should have been standard anyway), use the same exhaust and 4spd (which they have to sell the car so cheap) and tune it exclusively for economy. The fuel savings while significant still can't match the falcon and in fact are so aggresive they have lost power. If you wanted to keep private sales you'd do what ford did and put in the 5 (or 6) speed autos, get close to the same saving (FG 5sp XT is 10.6, 6sp XT 10.1), and still make the same or more power than current set up. Even so, this pretty much dooms the VE to irrelevancy in the base six pot game. Its now so slow that even the average punter will notice on a test drive - the lack of an upgrade to the high spec motor doesn't bode well either. God knows when holden will finally put in the DI version of the engine...looks like 2010 and by then ford has its new DI duratec which should make 200kw+ and 400nm with ease. This won't affect VE sales at all, it might even help with the fleets. But comparitive reviews its all over Holden. I just feel for the poor sods that have to drive these things day in day out....i hope it is a bit more refined because even less power and torque with that 4sp... :togo:
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Dynamic White 1995 EF XR6 Auto Now with: Pacemaker 4499s Lukey Catback Exhaust Chrome BA XR-style tip Airdam Mounted CAI with modified (bellmouth) airbox Trip Computer install KYB shocks Bridgestone Adrenalin tyres Coming Soon: Exhaust Overhaul..... |
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#37 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 397
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Does anyone remember that just a few months into the VZ model life Holden "upgraded" the VZ Alloytech from 175Kw to 172Kw and the "Alloytech 195" on Calais and SV6 dropped a couple of Kw too to meet some new environmental regulations?
I think this VE power drop will also go largely unpublished in most media who will instead focus on Ford cutting 450 jobs and rumouring about a FWD Falcon / Taurus in 2012. Holden's successful marketing will prevail. MK |
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#38 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,798
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Quote:
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Daniel |
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#39 | |||
The Vengeful One
![]() Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tazzy
Posts: 12,762
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#40 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 3,246
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Quote:
**** This is a copy of my email. Your reviews are generally pretty good. But the inaccuracy or bias evident in regard to VE Commodore over the FG Falcon is astounding. Consider this: Falcon: We would suggest that you can expect 9-11L/100km on the highway, and 15-17L/100km in town, from the 4.0 litre engine. Commodore: On test we recorded a highway consumption figure of 8 litres per 100kms. On our suburban cycle the Omega returned 10.8 litre per 100 kms both excellent figures for this size vehicle. If you guys read other reports from magazines or know the actual AS fuel figures you would know that you are grossly wrong when referring to the Falcon's consumption. I would even suggest bias. Apart from offering significantly more power, torque, acceleration, refinement and emissions the Falcon uses 10.1L (6spd) or 10.5L (5spd). The turbo uses 11.7L and is itself capable of using 8L on the open road. Your misinformation is highly detrimental to both prospective purchasers and to the sales of the FG Falcon. NRMA is continuing the perceived thirst of the Falcon, despite it being the more fuel efficient model since the AU of 1998. I therefore kindly ask that the information is in fact updated post haste.
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BA2 XR8 Rapid M6 Ute - Lid - Tint -18s 226.8rwkW@178kmh/537Nm@140kmh 1/9/2013 14.2@163kmh 23/10/2013 Boss349 built. Not yet run. Waiting on a shell. Retrotech thread http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1363569&page=6 |
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#41 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gren A Waverrey
Posts: 2,358
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I await a response, because I notice that there is very little positive coverage of Ford.
Holden released the VE and it was everywhere. Ford release a superior car, and instead, we're focusing on lost jobs. If people bought Australian, all this negativity would be lessened.
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Practicing - Sleeping with a guitar in your hand counts, as long as you don't drop it. Don't snap my undies. |
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#42 | |||
1999 Ford Fairmont Ghia
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NSW
Posts: 1,162
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Quote:
I haven't seen 15-17L around town since my dads XE 4.1L auto. My XE 5 speed gets 13 around town ans my AU in the 12's pretty much lineball with what mates with VT's get. |
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#43 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Melb.
Posts: 4,436
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We always hear stories of Holden's fleet pricing being far superior to Ford's. I even remember an article once giving some pretty good insight into how Ford has to carry greater costs in building the Falcon because it has a far greater developmental cost for it's engines due to their full local development, especially the V8's while Holden crates in their V8's and shared development of the V6's with GM Powertrain. Guess the new Ford V6 might even up the game somewhat.
Anyone in a fleet dept. confirm these stories of big differences in fleet deals without giving too much away? ps. congrats phillyc on your email. |
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#44 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Shakey Isles
Posts: 3,428
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#45 | |||
Oo\===/oO
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tamworth
Posts: 11,348
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Quote:
![]() why does a thread on holden engines have to include dim comments on BF v's FG....oh well, banned eh.
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#46 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 514
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people won't remember that the holden has less power.
Remember how gutless vb thru vk commodores were (especially VB). Even the lightest auto 3.3's couldn't break 18 seconds for the quarter. They were barely more economical than the much quicker falcons and the commies were so small. A volvo 240 (2.3 litre 100kw, 17.4 sec quarter) auto was quicker and roomier and more economical but the bogans still cruise around in commies with no fear stickers coz Brocky won bathurst in MY CAR. Even the stock V8's (not the HDT's) were slower than a decent efi XE or XF (or a manual 2.3litre Volvo) Image means a lot. Holden's 'Go bEtter'. Driving a ford just makes you play finger games and tow boats while letting the missus listen to Krap music just to shut her up while the kids puke over the leather trim in the xrb turbo. It's true. I've seen the adds image is everything I drive an XC with big rubber coz it's cool. An beige XF would drive much better and be quicker. quieter, brake better, handle better etc etc etc but I like the image of a big 70's car with wide hotwires and BF Goodrich's with raised white lettering. Commies will always sell coz people often buy with their heart rather than their brain. If the next falcon was a horse and cart painted blue, I would still buy one and tell everyone else how crap the commodore is. If I am like this then there must be plenty of people who feel the same way about commodores, or nissan skylines, or subarus, or volvos (but not aurions. I just can't accept that) |
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#47 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Perth
Posts: 187
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Some of you blokes get worked up over nothing. Who really cares if people buy 6 cylinder Commodores? Ford has had the better 6 for years so it isn't like it is anything new. I drive a Commodore because imo the V8 is a better option than the Ford. If I was in the market for a six, it would be a no-brainer. Falcon all the way!
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#48 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,848
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Funny, though - the commie 6 sells based on the reputation of the 8
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#49 | |||
Regulator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,168
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http://www.theage.com.au/national/ho...1030-5c0t.html
Quote:
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Regards Bobby Current Cars: 2000 AU2 Fairmont (2019-current) 2003 BA1 Falcon Divvy Van (2017-current) 2009 VW Mk6 Golf 118TSi (2020-current) Previous Cars: 2003 MCX10R Avalon VXi (2017-2020) 1995 EF1 Falcon GLi (2016-2019) 1997 XH2 Falcon Van OPT20 (2016-2019) 2006 BF Fairlane Ghia (2013-2018) 2001 AU3 Futura (2010-2013) 1996 EL Fairmont (2008-2010) 2004 BA XR6 (2005-2008) 2001 AU2 Forte (2005-2006) 1988 EA Fairmont Ghia (2003-2005) 1984 AR Telstar TX5 Ghia (2001-2005) |
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#50 | |||
Chasing a FORD project!
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: adelaide
Posts: 5,114
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do you reckon the drop in fuel cost associated with the commodore will offset agaisnt the fact falcon will have more power? what does the australian people want? the thirst for power has never been greater.
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1996 BMW 740iL V8. TV, phone, leather, sunroof, satnav, all as standard. Now with 19" TSW Brooklands, 2 1/2" stainless steel exhaust, plus more coming soon. |
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#51 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 291
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go ford!!! suck up the oil while its still there in my opinion :P
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#52 | ||
AWD Assassin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,170
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Just watch the HOLDEN marketing machine go to town on this one..........despite the power loss...........they'll still turn it into a winner.
They'll probably advertise the new Commodore as the "thoughtful choice".........and...... the Falcon as the lecher.......a Hoon mobile with blatant disregard for our precious resources and environment and you know what.............IT WILL WORK. |
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#53 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Salamander Bay
Posts: 5,427
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ford need an add of a falcon passing a commy both towing identical caravans with a line like the falcon will stand up the the family holiday demands ( ok i'm no good at slogans but you get the idea)
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Everyone starts off with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the experience bag before the luck bag is empty. "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Start a new career as a bus driver Rides: FG2 XR6 stock at this stage but a very nice ride xc 4 DOOR X CHASER 5.8 UNDER RESTO |
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#54 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,021
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#55 | |||
Regulator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,168
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Quote:
Extra pub bragging rights now for the blue brigade.
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Regards Bobby Current Cars: 2000 AU2 Fairmont (2019-current) 2003 BA1 Falcon Divvy Van (2017-current) 2009 VW Mk6 Golf 118TSi (2020-current) Previous Cars: 2003 MCX10R Avalon VXi (2017-2020) 1995 EF1 Falcon GLi (2016-2019) 1997 XH2 Falcon Van OPT20 (2016-2019) 2006 BF Fairlane Ghia (2013-2018) 2001 AU3 Futura (2010-2013) 1996 EL Fairmont (2008-2010) 2004 BA XR6 (2005-2008) 2001 AU2 Forte (2005-2006) 1988 EA Fairmont Ghia (2003-2005) 1984 AR Telstar TX5 Ghia (2001-2005) |
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#56 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 459
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Quote:
Commodores fuel consumption drops from 10.8 to 10.6l/100km. FG Falcon XT uses 10.5 with 5sp auto and 10.1 with 6sp auto. |
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#57 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,021
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And yet it's the Falcon that receives the new motor in two years :togo:
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#58 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 3,246
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Thanks to all for your appreciation for my email I sent to the NRMA. I got a bog stock, "thanks, we'll pass it onto the motoring review/research people."
Unfortunately, it doesn't undo the harm they have already perpertrated. At least, they now know that some people will keep the bastards honest and take them to task! Thanks.
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BA2 XR8 Rapid M6 Ute - Lid - Tint -18s 226.8rwkW@178kmh/537Nm@140kmh 1/9/2013 14.2@163kmh 23/10/2013 Boss349 built. Not yet run. Waiting on a shell. Retrotech thread http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1363569&page=6 |
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#59 | |||
You dig, we stick!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,461
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Quote:
I've been in a VE Omega for my 3rd week straight (rental). I cannot get better than 14L average. The modified BF Futura easily returns low 13's over the same route, with a fair bit more WOT moments. |
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#60 | |||
radio off =save petrol :P
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: northernbeaches(NSW)
Posts: 588
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Quote:
Absolutely a poor effort by Holden.Sacrificing power to increase fuel economy.The falcon proves that power and torque do not need to be sacrificed to achieve good fuel economy,it is just that holden's transmission and engine are inefficient. The falcon is safer,more powerful,more fuel efficient and better equiped,it also has a more upmarket interior. But why do commodores still sell better than falcons?.......Ford's marketing is a complete joke,that is why.
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