Holden looks set to secure a billion dollar export program

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by kezzer

I thought Holden made a bigger profit then Ford did last year?

Neither GMH or Ford have made money in the last 4 calender years. Ford Australia has 'operationally' made money in the past 1 or 2 qtrs.

Ford lost most of their money last year on a terrible superannuation fund return. It was essentially paper money. But the exact opposite will happen this financial year. Then add in profits from making and selling cars themselves. Further to this, add a full order book, rich model mix. Ford Oz are looking pretty good.

[phillyc]

Seems, Bob Lutz, the person this whole General Motors Holden export story is attributed to didn't get this announcement right.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/cadillac...e-converj.html

Cadillac retracts promise to produce Converj

General Motors’ Bob Lutz appears to have jumped the gun when he announced that Cadillac had confirmed the production future for the Converj on Sunday. Now, Cadillac’s global product director, John Howell, has clarified that the business case for the Converj is still being reviewed.

I'm happy for manufacturing in Australia to have General Motors Holden supply North America with Australian made cars. I just don't believe the hype.

[Watto_Cobra]

That isn't the first (or second) time Bob Lutz has made a premature announcement.

[US kills Falcon]

GM is owned by the US government who will not allow jobs to be taken away from Americans.

[Paxton]

I still can't get my head around the possibility that Holden may make a profit if selling cars with a Dollar very close to parity to the $US. What are they going to do, sell the cars at a greater cost than the Australian sold cars?

Not likely. This is just a whisper to try and divert attention from the news that Cruze has been delayed again. I'm doubting that Holden will ever manufacture that car in Australia.

[Kamshaaft]

^Exactly. When they were selling Commodores there as Pontiacs, GM was pricing them at $30k, when they're sold here as $55k, minus the LHD conversion, shipping, prepping, crash testing, and leather seats / new front end etc. The Aud was near enough to parity then too, although lower than it is now.

[Ghiadude]

I think holden will eventually do exactly as ford has. Use its australian operation to design the large car platform to be used manufactured internationaly. Exchange rates will almost always be volatile so exporting from Australia is not the smartest idea

[Kamshaaft]

On a different note, I am not confident about a company that claims it's the Australian motor company et al, when it's owned by the government of then United States. They can now only ever have the United State's interests in top priority, even if it means cutting jobs here. That said, Holden is (from what I've heard, so this is heresay) GM's best development and design devision, so at least that means they shouldn't be dissolved in Australia and take with them a significant number of Australian jobs.

I don't care who the company is, if it's taking away Jobs, Wealth, or anything good from Australia, I shall voice my disapproval. If though this bllion x dollars contract works out, and we benefit, then that's great. You don't have to be a fan of Holden to be concerned about what happens with them. The way I see it, we've all got a vested interest.

Most importantly they are the main reason for Ford Australia doing anything glorious, to stay one step ahead of Holden (and occasionally one step behind), with Ford continuously upping the ante in vehicle design. After having traveled overseas, and talking to all sorts of car folk, I can tell you we really take our local industry for granted.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by Paxton

I still can't get my head around the possibility that Holden may make a profit if selling cars with a Dollar very close to parity to the $US. What are they going to do, sell the cars at a greater cost than the Australian sold cars?

Not likely. This is just a whisper to try and divert attention from the news that Cruze has been delayed again. I'm doubting that Holden will ever manufacture that car in Australia.

They wont make any profit. At best it would be GM desperately trying to get new/appealing product. Since VE/Zeta is better than pretty much everything they have in the states they are trying to shoehorn the commodore into just about everything they can....if not chevy then GMC (the ute) etc.

It won't make Holden any money at all (probably cost them...) but then GM did give holden Cruze production instead of forcing them to source the car from korea.... Its a bit of you scratch my back i'll......

I put up a thread RE the cruze being delayed. (see here: http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11284977) Whie its no shock that the media has given holden the free kick over this (esp with ford taking all the press pressure...) its telling that there is apparently little interest from teh readership on here. While falcon is no doubt a much more interesting topic then a mediocre small car designed by daewoo, its funny that all the bleeding hearts and anti-ford naysayers aren't equally scathing of Holden. Particualry given they are the traditional enemy apparently.

FFS, the falcon decision concerns a platform that won't come into affect till 2015....and the decision won't even be made till 2011. Meanwhile Holden are already backpedalling on cruze as we speak, and given the new focus will be here in mid to late 2011 and will surely crush the korean kit car it amazing no one has an opinion on it. Particulary when it is yet another example of GM-H spinning a yarn but not delivering. They have just confirmed that a 'hybrid commodore' won't appear till 2013 at the earliest and is 'not a priority' despite their former asia pacific head claiming it will be here in a 'couple of years' back in 2008!!! So where is it Holden??? We all knew Cruze woudl never enter production in 2010....now its confirmed but apparently its 'because of timing of launch'. Bollocks, it ain't ready because no one did any work on it last year because THERE WAS NO MONEY!!! Too busy spending time and coin getting those 'hugely impressive' SIDI MY2010 commodores to market......

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Paxton

I still can't get my head around the possibility that Holden may make a profit if selling cars with a Dollar very close to parity to the $US. What are they going to do, sell the cars at a greater cost than the Australian sold cars?

This is what was going through my head. Unless they sell a lot of units and bring the cost per car down there isn't gonna be any profit, and if it was to be a success then the US would just start building them over there.

[Kamshaaft]

Originally Posted by vztrt

This is what was going through my head. Unless they sell a lot of units and bring the cost per car down there isn't gonna be any profit, and if it was to be a success then the US would just start building them over there.

If I recall correctly, their South Aus plant was running OVER capacity to crank out those extra commodores for that Pontiac program. Given that, it's my reckoning that there's no way they could churn out enough of them to subsidize the cost enough to do so much as break even on such a veture.
Building or at least assembling CKDs stateside (Canada, more likely) is the only way they could make it profitable.

[Outback]

Originally Posted by phillyc

Even IF that were true. They would still have to be operating in Australia for 24 more years after Ford had gone to be the longest running car company.

Ford = Australian made since 1924
General Motors Holden = Australian made since 1948

It wasn't Ford that took the $200M AUD secret loan in 2008 to stay afloat in Australia. IT was General Motors Holden.

It wasn't Ford US that took $60B USD of American taxpayer money and shafted creditors & shareholders many times that when entering bankruptcy last year. It was General Motors.

Ford Oz is running at capacity and is turning a profit, increasing market share and investing heavily in near term driveline updates.

The kind of negative s*it pulled on Ford yesterday is exactly that. Then the media come out and run this positive 'spin'.

General Motors Holden = Automotive equivalent of the NSW Labor Party. Unfortunately, too many are just like typical NSW voters and accept the spin, spin, spin.

Ford = Australian made since 1924
Holden = Australian made since 1856
1917-1923 started making bodies for dodge, chev,ford
1931 General Motors MERGED with Holden
1948 Produced the first Australian made car.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by phillyc

Ford = Australian made since 1924
General Motors Holden = Australian made since 1948

both holden/ford were assembling kit cars and/or converting to R/H drive.
the first ford was 1960 of breadmeadow plant.

[GS608]

Originally Posted by Outback

Ford = Australian made since 1924
Holden = Australian made since 1856
1917-1923 started making bodies for dodge, chev,ford
1931 General Motors MERGED with Holden
1948 Produced the first Australian made car.

I think you mean TOOK OVER

[Fairlane]

Bugger the Holden Exports.


Camaro's in Australia, ohhh yeahh. :

[Outback]

Originally Posted by XR-CHIEF

I think you mean TOOK OVER

No I meant MERGED.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by burnz

both holden/ford were assembling kit cars and/or converting to R/H drive.
the first ford was 1960 of breadmeadow plant.

No............

T-Models were built in Geelong in 1924..........

[burnz]

t model was a car converted not made.
1960 XK falcon was the first oz made.

3. 3. Large family car
The North American Ford Falcon was assembled in Australia in 1960. The Australian and American product lines separated during the mid 1960s when the US Ford product proved inconsistent with Australian desires and requirements; In fact the initial Falcon required extensive re-engineering beyond standard RHD adaptation for Australian conditions. Since its initial offerings the Falcon has proven to be Ford Australia's most popular car.

Ford has manufactured over three million units since 1960, and has topped the sales charts on many occasions. Currently the Falcon lineup is offered in sedan, station wagon, and utility body styles, however in the past panel vans and hardtops were offered. Falcons have dominated the ranks of taxis in Australia and New Zealand, along with sister car, the Ford Fairlane, and have been widely used as police cars, especially in performance variants

[cosmo20btt]

Originally Posted by Outback

Ford = Australian made since 1924
Holden = Australian made since 1856
1917-1923 started making bodies for dodge, chev,ford
1931 General Motors MERGED with Holden
1948 Produced the first Australian made car.

Holden the Coach builder was hired by Ford to build there first Fords here, but was later sacked by Ford because their quality was poor. That was why Ford decided to look into building their own cars here.

[cosmo20btt]

Originally Posted by burnz

both holden/ford were assembling kit cars and/or converting to R/H drive.
the first ford was 1960 of breadmeadow plant.

Thats funny I thought Ford invented the Utility in 1934. It was not a knock down kit car as there were no utes anywhere in the world then.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by cosmo20btt

Thats funny I thought Ford invented the Utility in 1934. It was not a knock down kit car as there were no utes anywhere in the world then.

oh dear, the ikea cars were imports and modified for aus condition and drive.
ford and holden only assemble other (ikea) cars.
mod a car into a ute doesent mean they went into production and stamped it.

[cosmo20btt]

Originally Posted by burnz

oh dear, the ikea cars were imports and modified for aus condition and drive.
ford and holden only assemble other (ikea) cars.
mod a car into a ute doesent mean they went into production and stamped it.

Here have a read of this :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Australia
In 1934 the company invented the ute. The inventor of the ute was Ford engineer Lewis Bandt.[2] During the Depression, banks would not extend credit to farmers to purchase passenger cars- in the belief they were unnecessary luxuries. However, they would lend money for the purchase of "working" vehicles. The ute fulfilled the need of farmers to have a workhorse which could also be used "to take the wife to church on Sunday and to the market on Monday".
My point being it was invented here not the states, so panel production would have been here, or it would stated that the was assembled here which is not the case is it.

[cosmo20btt]

Sorry if a bit off topic but at the same site it says this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Australia
Ford Australia is the only Australian car manufacturer which designs and manufactures its own unique high-volume engines.[1]
which brings into speculation in a previous thread about Holden making there own engines.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by cosmo20btt

Here have a read of this :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Australia
In 1934 the company invented the ute. The inventor of the ute was Ford engineer Lewis Bandt.[2] During the Depression, banks would not extend credit to farmers to purchase passenger cars- in the belief they were unnecessary luxuries. However, they would lend money for the purchase of "working" vehicles. The ute fulfilled the need of farmers to have a workhorse which could also be used "to take the wife to church on Sunday and to the market on Monday".
My point being it was invented here not the states, so panel production would have been here, or it would stated that the was assembled here which is not the case is it.

you buy an ikea unit from harvey norman.
you get your allen key and glue and assemble.
are you a cabinet maker?
are you a furniture factory?
you decide to pop a hole in said unit to run A/V leeds, wow you've just invented the home entertainment system.

i'm not taking away anything from ford, kudos for the ute.
just that ford didn't produce localy till 1960
http://wapedia.mobi/en/Ford_Falcon_(Australia)

[cosmo20btt]

Originally Posted by burnz

you buy an ikea unit from harvey norman.
you get your allen key and glue and assemble.
are you a cabinet maker?
are you a furniture factory?
you decide to pop a hole in said unit to run A/V leeds, wow you've just invented the home entertainment system.

i'm not taking away anything from ford, kudos for the ute.
just that ford didn't produce localy till 1960 http://wapedia.mobi/en/Ford_Falcon_(Australia)

By your own admission that means that when Holden buy the engine casts from Mexico or where ever, then drill holes in them to put pistons in, or slips in a 6.2 litre crate motor from the states, and put American nose kits on a commodore, that makes them not local content then?

[burnz]

Originally Posted by cosmo20btt

By your own admission that means that when Holden buy the engine casts from Mexico or where ever, then drill holes in them to put pistons in, or slips in a 6.2 litre crate motor from the states, and put American nose kits on a commodore, that makes them not local content then?

correct sidi cast over seas, and the V8's a crate unit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnc4bMn_6-o

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by burnz

you buy an ikea unit from harvey norman.
you get your allen key and glue and assemble.
are you a cabinet maker?
are you a furniture factory?
you decide to pop a hole in said unit to run A/V leeds, wow you've just invented the home entertainment system.

i'm not taking away anything from ford, kudos for the ute.
just that ford didn't produce localy till 1960
http://wapedia.mobi/en/Ford_Falcon_(Australia)

You sound like a broken record....

You're wrong....

The Stamping plant has been operating in one form or another since 1926.

Plant 1 (Geelong) was build in 1925, with plant 2 which was the Assembly plant starting in 1925. Manufacturing Ops started in 1926....NOT 1960.

Prior to 1925 (1924) Ford leased the shed in Geelong City (wool stores) and put together CKD kits - the local content was significantly improved once the operations moved to the new operation in Norlane (then in the middle of miles of fields).

There was significant local content well before 1960... including a toolroom and die manufacture for the Stamping plant. Otherwise how did they make Bren gun carriers, other military vehicles, and landing barges during WWII ? CKD ?

Holden on the other hand weren't even a 'real brand' until after WWII....

[burnz]

holden was founding engine for WWII focker bi planes and diesel marine for landing craft.
before 1960 canadian falcons converted to R/H drive and serious suspention mods for oz roads.

the first fully fledged ford oz was an 1960 XK falcon,

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by burnz

holden was founding engine for WWII focker bi planes and diesel marine for landing craft.
before 1960 canadian falcons converted to R/H drive and serious suspention mods for oz roads.

the first fully fledged ford oz was an 1960 XK falcon,

And Ford have been Manufacturing cars in Australia (overseas designs) since 1926 (but Ford cars never the less) prior to which they only assembled them :

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by burnz

before 1960 canadian falcons converted to R/H drive and serious suspention mods for oz roads.

No....

Falcon was launched for the first time in 1960 at Broadmeadows these were NOT conversions - but they did have suspension problems (FoA was embarassed) and the next model featured the well known upgrades.

Prior to that Broadmeadows Car Assembly Plant opened in August 1959 with Australian-built Fairlane 500, Custom 300 and Ranch Wagon.

Until them Assembly was done in plant 1 Geelong (the current engive plant).