Is the Golden Era of Oz Cricket Over? - Page 2

j3t ute · 27-01-2009, 07:10 PM

^^^^ Granted his average is around 53 (was 75 - which show he's in need of a good innings)... and I do like him, he plays like M Bevan, however he gets out before he gets to the run a ball 40-50.

I think it might be for a rotation for a game or two... Just let hiom, and a few other players know that they are not a confirmed player every innings

Rodp · 27-01-2009, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j3t ute

^^^^ Granted his average is around 53 (was 75 - which show he's in need of a good innings)... and I do like him, he plays like M Bevan, however he gets out before he gets to the run a ball 40-50.

I think it might be for a rotation for a game or two... Just let hiom, and a few other players know that they are not a confirmed player every innings

53? I think you're talking about ODI cricket. A form of the game I really don't care that much about in comparison with Test cricket.

Spanrz · 27-01-2009, 09:13 PM

I reckon the Aussie Team left the good players for too long, didn't blood early enough.

It's like Essendon in the 90's, dam they couldn't be beaten, after 2-3 years, they struggled to win 1 game.

After loosing some really good players to retirements, I think they are in the stage, where "blooding new players" is all they can do.
So until there is more experience in these new players, don't expect the team of old.
It aint going to happen.

History paints the picture, all footbal clubs go through it, win 2 years in a row, then can't win for the next 2 years....It's all cyclic.

**buggerlugs** · 27-01-2009, 09:41 PM

Its good for Test Cricket, The arrogant Australian team getting knocked off.........Certainly showed up Brett Lee when he didn't have McGrath or Warne keeping one end tight all the time..........

Rodp · 28-01-2009, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Its good for Test Cricket, The arrogant Australian team getting knocked off.........Certainly showed up Brett Lee when he didn't have McGrath or Warne keeping one end tight all the time..........

Sometimes I think I watch a different game to everyone else.

Brett Lee's average and economy rate has fallen since the retirement of Warne and McGrath and his strike rate has remained much the same.

IMO, his line and length has improved immesurably. Early in his career he captured many wickets from batsmen's eyes growing large and getting out to a wide short ball. Under proper tutelage, less loose stuff and more in the slot.

I have a lot of admiration for Lee. Huge heart that never gives up and is probably the best sportsman in the Aussie side - just have to look at the 05 Ashes series to see how the Poms revered him.

**buggerlugs** · 28-01-2009, 09:19 AM

Well anyone can get wickets against New Zealand. Bit different when you play quality teams like India and South Africa.........

gtxb67 · 28-01-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Bit different when you play quality teams like India and South Africa.........

it is a bit hard to take wickets when your foot is over the line (although lee still has a few that way, lucky the umpires were blind) or when you bowl at their legs defending 180

Rodp · 28-01-2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Well anyone can get wickets against New Zealand. Bit different when you play quality teams like India and South Africa.........

His record vs India before and after McGrath's retirement is much the same.

vs SA, I don't know if he was carrying an injury into the series or not but sure, it wasn't a good series for him.

So this series vs SA is the one series he's struggled since McGrath's retirement so I still really don't understand your observation that it has shown up Lee. Clearly it hasn't.

**buggerlugs** · 28-01-2009, 05:06 PM

You have your opinion, I have mine..............

**FTE217** · 28-01-2009, 06:21 PM

The Golden era is over,plain simple and thats how it is.......
It's hard to eat humble pie when we have been spoilt for 10-15yrs but this has to happen as in any sport or life cycle.
We should be very proud especially that because of us the others have rebuilt (India SA especially) and got stronger whilst we have not imo.......youth should have been put in far earlier mixing it with the recent retirement legends but all too late.
I'm amazed since Warne's rise and retirement a quality wrist spinner has not surfaced from his lead.

I don't think we will be as vulnerable as we were after the Lillee/Marsh/Chappel eras but in time we will be the strong No1 again as the loss's will make the hunger for success once again.

Rodp · 28-01-2009, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

You have your opinion, I have mine..............

When there's questions over a bowlers perfomance over a period of time, it's quite simple to get a quantitative analysis of that performance based on averages, strike rate and economy. To suggest that, in your opinion, Lee's performance has been poor since the retirement of McGrath and Warne, even though his figures have improved would likely put you in the minority.

If you were to suggest that he just had a poor showing against SA, I'd completely agree but it's certainly not indicitive of his form since the retirements of McGrath and Warne. Despite taking 1-249 his figures are still better than they were before McGrath and Warne's retirements.

uranium_death · 29-01-2009, 01:12 AM

THe greatest thing to happen to cricket is Australia's demise as THE superpower of the game.
Three World Cups in a row, number one test team for bloody ages. Every ruler dies, every politician lies, every sporting team (except world football) goes up and down.

We can't complain. At least now, the matches will be more interesting.
Yawn, how boring to just turn up to a match and win. Wow...exciting.

Essendon were also never unbeatable in the 1990s - they won one premiership (should have been two though), and Sheedy conceded they were lucky to do so that year.

And with regards to Lee, I think he's terrible, pre or post McGrath and Warne.
He gets one wicket and jumps around like a retard when he does get it.
A showman and nothing more.

My favourite bowler of all time was McGrath. So consistent and controlled. That's how it's done!

prydey · 29-01-2009, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

vs SA, I don't know if he was carrying an injury into the series or not but sure, it wasn't a good series for him.

whilst in india he got giardia (sp). anyone that knows this illness will know that it takes a lot out of you. he was still not at his best against RSA.

one area that no one has given credit to is the opposition. RSA are having a real purple patch at the moment and both them and india have really stepped it up a knotch.

i don't have too many issues with aussie cricket at the moment. that includes debuting more mature players. blooding young players is just a tradition and is not garaunteed of success. quite often in the aussie past, young players have failed and been dropped and them re selected a few years later. older players are comfortable with their game and cope a lot better on the big stage.

one area that has dissappeared is the australia A concept. this should be brought back to nuture any potential talent.

**buggerlugs** · 29-01-2009, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uranium_death

THe greatest thing to happen to cricket is Australia's demise as THE superpower of the game.
Three World Cups in a row, number one test team for bloody ages. Every ruler dies, every politician lies, every sporting team (except world football) goes up and down.

We can't complain. At least now, the matches will be more interesting.
Yawn, how boring to just turn up to a match and win. Wow...exciting.

Essendon were also never unbeatable in the 1990s - they won one premiership (should have been two though), and Sheedy conceded they were lucky to do so that year.

And with regards to Lee, I think he's terrible, pre or post McGrath and Warne.
He gets one wicket and jumps around like a retard when he does get it.
A showman and nothing more.

My favourite bowler of all time was McGrath. So consistent and controlled. That's how it's done!

Exactly. Half the reason he's been kept in the team...........

Corzza · 29-01-2009, 10:18 AM

It will be a real challenge for the Aussies over in South Africa. The pitches are going to reletively quick. So the openers for the aussies are going to have to get good startes and keep it going through the order to post some big scores or else the South Africans are going to find it fairly easy to chase down anything around the 280 mark.

Its been a long time coming for the South africans. They got flogged 5-0 vs England in the 1 dayers back in September 2008

gtxb67 · 29-01-2009, 10:51 AM

i am not sure that we are in so much trouble - we need to work for sure. but as i posted earlier: except for one tour, we could never beat india in india anyway (even with pidgeon and warnie), the south africans were due to beat us - in my opinion, they have been better at times but could not beat us which gave us more space in the rankings. they chased down 438 the other year and we went undefeated in the world cup not long after. the new zealanders smashed us in the one dayer last time and we went undeafted in the world cup not long after

maybe we are not doing too bad. we have only been beated by the no. 1 & 2 (us excluded) teams in the world, so if in our darkest hour we are still around 3 or 4, that is not too bad. it is a platform to build on

i still think we need bowlers though

Rodp · 29-01-2009, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

one area that no one has given credit to is the opposition. RSA are having a real purple patch at the moment and both them and india have really stepped it up a knotch.

one area that has dissappeared is the australia A concept. this should be brought back to nuture any potential talent.

True. SA certainly deserved the win and it will be an interesting away series. It is tough as a supporter to have your team conquer the world for so long to have 2 series losses on the trot and likely to line up for a 3rd - but you've got to take the wins with the losses. It'll be interesting to see if the academy is grooming new talent to put us ahead of the curve again.

I also felt the A concept was a good one as well and don't understand why they didn't field an A side for the ODI series (even though I think very little of limited overs cricket). The only reasoning I can think of is time constraints.

prydey · 29-01-2009, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtxb67

i am not sure that we are in so much trouble - we need to work for sure. but as i posted earlier: except for one tour, we could never beat india in india anyway (even with pidgeon and warnie), the south africans were due to beat us - in my opinion, they have been better at times but could not beat us which gave us more space in the rankings. they chased down 438 the other year and we went undefeated in the world cup not long after. the new zealanders smashed us in the one dayer last time and we went undeafted in the world cup not long after

maybe we are not doing too bad. we have only been beated by the no. 1 & 2 (us excluded) teams in the world, so if in our darkest hour we are still around 3 or 4, that is not too bad. it is a platform to build on

i still think we need bowlers though

i agree. its the media that like to paint the picture that australian cricket is over. like you say, we've only ever won one tour in india in 03 or 04 or something, with gilly captaining one of the tests IIRC. as great as s.waugh was and with the team he had, he never got the job done. suddenly losing to india in india means we are in major trouble.

we've been beaten by RSA 2-1 in a home series. at no stage throughout the series did we have our best team on the park. even still, every game australia were in very strong positions but couldn't capitalise. the 2-1 scoreline in no way tells the true story. all 3 tests went 5 days with 2 or 3 results still possible late in the 5th day. i for one really enjoyed the series.

i also am positive that our tour of RSA will be a good one, provided lee, johnson, clark and watson are all fit and ready to go.

not sure whats happened to p.jaques but he needs to be there also.

BZINGA · 29-01-2009, 06:09 PM

Clark has been ruled out of the SA tour due too injury.

rodderz · 29-01-2009, 06:57 PM

South Africa have a brilliant team, they would have to be maybe the best at the moment. Their whole batting lineup are all good. Players like Duminy and Amlar always got good scores and the tail enders even gave a good display. Then the bowling lineup was just as good.

Quicksand · 30-01-2009, 12:21 PM

Is the golden era of cricket over? This Simpsons quote says it all really...

Quote:

Kent Brockman: "Professor, without knowing precisely what the danger is, would you say it's time for our viewers to crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?"

Professor: "Yes I would, Kent."

Corzza · 30-01-2009, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodderz

South Africa have a brilliant team, they would have to be maybe the best at the moment. Their whole batting lineup are all good. Players like Duminy and Amlar always got good scores and the tail enders even gave a good display. Then the bowling lineup was just as good.

Today will be a test with steyn & Ntini rested

prydey · 30-01-2009, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corzza

Today will be a test with steyn & Ntini rested

the aussies picked the wrong ground to rest tait i though i reckon.

Walkinshaw · 30-01-2009, 06:06 PM

I'm I the only aust fan who is happy we're not dominating every single game? Competetion is key to a good series!

**DJR-351** · 30-01-2009, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

I'm I the only aust fan who is happy we're not dominating every single game? Competetion is key to a good series!

Im with you on this 100%...

...also i am well and truly over Symonds and his headline antics... :togo:

.

uranium_death · 30-01-2009, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

I'm I the only aust fan who is happy we're not dominating every single game? Competetion is key to a good series!

Perhaps you should read my posts. Your question would have been answered even before you wrote it.

XR8putts · 30-01-2009, 10:44 PM

If Australia want a shot at winning this game they had better use their batting powerplay soon whilst these two have their eye in and before that required runrate balloons further. It seems it's not just ability that seems to have retired from the Australian team, but common-sense aswell.

Even the commentary team have been harping on about the same thing for atleast 5 overs now. Do they have the televisions in the players lounge on mute or something?

prydey · 31-01-2009, 01:14 AM

hey putts, we're just trying to improve our odds a little for the next series starting sunday. too hard to make money if you win all the time.

seriously though, its just the natural cycle of cricket and most other sports. england dominated, west indies dominated and then australia dominated. maybe this is the start of a new era.

personally i think a fully fit australia is still a match for any side out there but full credit to south africa. even with 2 debutants and no kallis, steyn or ntini, they still beat us relatively easy.

i feel that we have been beaten at our own game this whole 1 day series. austalia were known for their brilliant running between wickets and the amount of singles during the game, and still picking off the bad balls for boundaries. the series just finished was totally the opposite. as hard as we tried we just couldn't stop the singles from RSA, and australia struggled to buy a run let alone the big hit.

i feel this is also the result of too many changes in one hit. this one day team has had wholesale changes to the world cup side or champions trophy side. 2 new openers, and almost all new from 5 down except for bracken.

its not all bad for the ashes. england are being given a cricket lesson in the first tour match against west indies today.

Corzza · 31-01-2009, 05:45 PM

Im just so very proud of the Proteas for getting stuck in. They have for years been the underdogs and have by far been the only team with the gumption to take it to the aussies over the last decade. And it has finally paid off.

The aussies have been the team to beat for the past 10 years. But ponting has a youthful side to bring forward and take to the top of the rankings once again. It can be done it will just take some time.

Im sure they will show the kiwis how its done.

futura888 · 31-01-2009, 06:18 PM

Is the golden era of cricket over??i think it's a no.

The aussies are still competitive even though we've lost the big name guy's mentioned over and over again eg.Warne,mcgrath,haydos,langer,gilly and so on,but the biggest thing for me is that we still look semi competitive against the top teams.

I think all it will take for us to get back up to number 1 is a solid opener to team up with Katich,another fast strike bowler to back up Johnson and Lee(when he comes back),perhaps a promising spinner if one comes along in the next couple of years.

The only negative thing for me is it just looks to me like there is not enough leadership out there on the field,which is caused by unstability in the team (Too many part timer's,injuries,fishing

and retirement's)...I reckon give it a couple of years to see how it pans out.