Auto vs Manual

[51OAU]

i got a manual au3 falcon mate, never converted though came straight from the shop manual...i love driving it never get bored of it....rips nice skids aswell...only prob with the manual is the pedal box...ive had 2 already and will need a new one soon...which is a pain in the ***....i will prob get this one and try weld it up a bit stronger or some ...what happens is the clutch is to heavy and makes the pedal bend slightly so the clutch doesn't go down all the way which means u gotta keep adjusting the clutch...then your cruise control don't work cause the pedal don't touch the button, im just lucky i got mates who work for ford and can me parts cheap and do it on spare time for a carton of , thats the only problems im having...if anybody can help me solve this prob feel free to tel me


also mate for people who whinge and what not about having to change gears, it all just comes down to how lazy u really are...nothing like pulling up becide a brand new peace of s commodore and blowing its doors off just because u are manual...ive raced 2 of my mates clubsports and have beaten both of them no probs...they both have exhaust extractors cai....all i have is a $50 set of headers and a 2 and half inch mendral bent exhaust....oh thats another thing....nothing sounds better then manual!

[GK]

Originally Posted by superroo

In my manual, i will cover around 400-500km a week. Driving into the outer CBD in melb each day (hawthorn), so i have to deal with stop start traffic.
In my 3 years of doing it, i have only twice wished i had a auto. Once when i was badly hung over, and the other when i was extremely tired.

Personally, once you get used to a manual, it all becomes second nature, and it all fades away. Clutch weight and notchy box i don't notice unless i think about it.

Then the benefit is that when you want to have some fun, the car really comes alive. You really have to drive it, it's awsome.

And if you get bored in traffic, 1st gear launch's or 2nd gear foot down runs entertain you enough. :eclipsee_

Cheers

[EDIT]1000th post :

Roo, you're such a hoon! LOL!

When are we meeting up again? Rob would be in it, and I reckon we could rouse up a few others! Saturday morning on the 25th (Oct) looks good for me!

GK

[Sox]

Personally I reckon autos should be banned.:thebirds:

: By comparison to a manual, they are heavier, use more fuel, go slower, more expensive, more expensive to maintain, not as much fun, not as reliable, and make you lazy.
The argument is pretty clear to me.

I hate autos and will never own one again. I've had about 3 in my time, and had at least 15 manuals.

Go back 30 years and autos were quite rare, no one complained about manuals being a problem in heavy traffic then. People have just gotten lazier, I have no problem with my manuals in any traffic. It's just what you get used to.

I have never driven an auto which has made me even close to satisfied as a manual does. Even well tricked up units with high stalls, and shift kits still feel lethargic and unresponsive by comparison.

BTW, have I mentioned I hate autos? :

[ten[A]cio[U]s]

I am pretty sure i want to convert it too manual. I see myself of late putting it in first just because im sick of the bloody annoying auto drove when you let "D" do all the work. The car is starting to come alive now, it is going harder then it ever has, and sounding better then it ever has but 90% of the time its boring because its auto..

I dont do much driving each week, so start stop isn't and issue. I drove my EB around wagga as a manual and loved every minute.

[fordman_01]

manual it mate, i was going to convert mine but i will be selling it shortly. defs getting a 6spd xr6 next tho

[blackers10]

I have an auto that cost 3300 built with a 2800 red diamond high stall
its got alot of custom machining inside it apparently.. was built to handle a 450+hp turbo AU XR6 that copped alot of abuse
and its still going hard as ever(the box) in my car

i find it made the car come alive alot more but i use more fuel playing with the auto(reving it while cruising using the flash of the stall ... or stamping on the throttle to move small amounts just to make noise haha)..
and forever tempted to just fry the tyres but i dont because they are expensive and my diff clunks enough as it is ... and i have a single pegger

the only thing that would make me go manual would be the enjoyment of throwing the car through the twisties or what ever makes it rather tame

[BLACKAUXR8]

The thing with the manual is rolling along at 60 kmh and fanning clutch i can leave 2 black marks and clouds of smoke with 20 inch wheels on a resonably stock XR8. That is fun you can't have in a auto.

[MaTTe]

Manual all the way.

I bought my BA as an auto because I couldn't find a manual at the time. I got so bored by the tiptronic that I converted it to manual. Best $3k I ever spent.

I drive in alot of conditions and was doing 5-600km a week atleast, heavy traffic and cruising. And never once wanted the auto back. Put on cruise control and the missus can give head just as easily as an auto.

If you want to drive the car, auto is no comparison. If you want to point and shoot, join the grandpa's in the ford'o'matics..

The car is faster, more controllable, more fun, and saved me heaps of fuel.. even when i revved first and second out.

Its just my opinion, but there is no comparison.

If the Bedford had power steering I'd make that a manual too.

Cheers,
MaTTe

[ten[A]cio[U]s]

What price would i be looking at for a conversion? Also is it possible to put a 6spd box in the AU? I have seen in done several times in ED's and maybe one AU xr6?

What price would i be looking at for this?

[protd]

people with f@rk all hp love manuals, makes their doe bags feel fast..

[blackers10]

7k for a 6 speed conversion from mal wood.. should have no problems in an AU as long as you get hte speedo signal from somewhere(BA uses magnets on tailshaft or somthing)

conversion probably 2-3k depending on the spec of the 5 speed gearbox and how much you do your self. or get cheap from wreckers/friends/off here

then if you want a strengthened item its a bit more (rebuild for a T5 that will handle ALOT of hell is 1800 + gearbox supplied by you from Hart Transmissions up here at Brendale

good luck mate

[Sox]

Originally Posted by protd

people with f@rk all hp love manuals, makes their doe bags feel fast..

And people with high hp love autos cos' they have no clue how to drive manuals properly. :

[protd]

Originally Posted by Sox

And people with high hp love autos cos' they have no clue how to drive manuals properly. :

sorry been there done that : had a manual in a falcon running well into the tens sorry to dissapoint you :togo:

fact still remains guys that hate auto,s have never had a decent one or a car worth having a decent auto..

and people that say auto's are more expensive have never had a car with a manual and decent power, because manual in big hp cars tear them to peices :

enjoy your manual and your slow cars

[Sox]

Originally Posted by protd

sorry been there done that : had a manual in a falcon running well into the tens sorry to dissapoint you :togo:

Why would I be dissapointed if you can't drive?

fact still remains guys that hate auto,s have never had a decent one or a car worth having a decent auto..

That's not a fact at all, it's just your misinformed opinion.
Fact is, there is no such thing as a decent auto, that's why manufacturers have been making all atempts to refine them over the last 30 years and they still can't hold a candle to a manual which has been left fundamentally unchanged since the year dot. :

and people that say auto's are more expensive have never had a car with a manual and decent power, because manual in big hp cars tear them to peices :

Eh? and they don't tear the buggery out of an auto, what have you been smoking? :
Both auto and manuals can be made to handle obscene amounts of power.
In any case, the discussion is about a street driven 4L 6 pack, so it's not too difficult to find a box which can handle that power.

enjoy your manual and your slow cars

I certainly will, I like to actually drive my cars.

Anyway, I'm done here, I have better things to do than fart around with trolls.

[protd]

see your replying to me as if i don't like manual cars, which is not true..

and i was talking about manuals tearing up the car not the trans you egg..

if steering a full weight falcon into the 10's with a manual is not being able to peddle a manual car i'm happy with that :



maybe read before you dribble..

[GTP owner]

I'm with protd on this one. Having driven 10 sec manuals that eat ducatis for breakfast and chew up bits all the time, and 9 second autos that car not too bad to drive on the street.
But the topic is for a mild street car - so would actually suggest the manual option - more fun, more involvement, more interaction with the car.
Oh, and autos are usually quicker in a straight line because of the torque multiplication effect, but that is not important for a streeter.

[BFD83]

I would love to convert mine to manual..its just the $$ part that's stopping me :(

[b2tf]

I own an auto but it's more because Ive never actually had a chance to drive a manual, hence I stuck with auto. Really doesnt bother me either way, but I reckon I'd get sick of having to change gears in city traffic etc. Yes I may be lazy etc but I'm sure you'll get over it.

Now play nice people or I will bring out the ban stick.

[Mechan1k]

I could clean this out ... but for now I will leave it .... but if it keeps up, action will have to be taken as Austin mentioned.

[shazaam]

It really depends on what you really want to do. If you have the dollars and want to spend, then go the manual. If not, then put the money towards other things. My XR8 is auto and does me fine. I would of preferred a manual but couldn't find one at the time and as I don't drive it that much and never drive it hard the auto doesn't bother me too much.

I guess it boils down to this, convert to manual or toughen up the auto. Personally I don't have oodles of cash so I'd spend it elsewhere.

[broken_suave]

Personally I reckon a stalled and kitted auto gives a decent seat of the pants feel. I admit the manual is a bit more fun for all out octane based fun, however if the car is already an auto, I'd keep it an auto. If you really want a manual, I'd buy a car already equipped with one.

The other thing is, an auto can tow without getting out of the ez-chair, whereas a manual has to work for it. This is important to me, as I would like to be able to tow whenever needed. My AU has already had to go on an emergency recovery mission with a massive car trailer, something that simply could not have been done with a manual.

Mind you, towing probably isnt the biggest concern for most people here.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by broken_suave

The other thing is, an auto can tow without getting out of the ez-chair, whereas a manual has to work for it. This is important to me, as I would like to be able to tow whenever needed. My AU has already had to go on an emergency recovery mission with a massive car trailer, something that simply could not have been done with a manual.

FWIW, I've been towing heavy loads for the last 15 or so years with manual Falcons.
Anywhere from typically 1200-1300kg and up to just over 2000kg.
I've never had the slightest problem with a clutch or anything else for that matter due to towing.

The few times I have used an auto to tow, I've been unimpressed, mainly because of the lack of engine braking and the inconsistency with gear changing, and then having to select gears manually anyhow.

I do usually throw in a shorter diff ratio for good measure, however that's not primarily for towing reasons, and I'd do the same if I were to own an auto.

[MaTTe]

Hahaha I didn't realise this would be such a touchy subject..

A 10 second car is probably good as an auto, you don't want to have to change gears twice in 10 seconds.. or was it 9 seconds..
But that being said, who really wants to be restricted to driving fast in a straight line?

I'd much rather drive a 250hp car fast around barbagello, than a 500hp car down kwinana..
I'd also much rather drive a manual 500hp car around barbagello, than an auto 500hp car down kwinana..

A manual is something that helps you control the car throughout the driving experience, an auto is something you use when you want to delegate the 'chore' to someone/thing else

For me, rev matching is an enjoyable experience, even at posted speed limits.

I don't quite understand the towing comment however.. Manuals are equally capable in towing, provided you select the appropriate gear. Towing in 4th in an auto is just as bad as being in 5th.

But I have heard of cars with high stalls suffering when towing..


So long as you enjoy cruising in your ride, thats all that matters

Cheers for the enteretainment fellas
MaTTe

[protd]

Originally Posted by MaTTe

Hahaha I didn't realise this would be such a touchy subject..

A 10 second car is probably good as an auto, you don't want to have to change gears twice in 10 seconds.. or was it 9 seconds..
But that being said, who really wants to be restricted to driving fast in a straight line?

I'd much rather drive a 250hp car fast around barbagello, than a 500hp car down kwinana..
I'd also much rather drive a manual 500hp car around barbagello, than an auto 500hp car down kwinana..

A manual is something that helps you control the car throughout the driving experience, an auto is something you use when you want to delegate the 'chore' to someone/thing else

For me, rev matching is an enjoyable experience, even at posted speed limits.

I don't quite understand the towing comment however.. Manuals are equally capable in towing, provided you select the appropriate gear. Towing in 4th in an auto is just as bad as being in 5th.

But I have heard of cars with high stalls suffering when towing..


So long as you enjoy cruising in your ride, thats all that matters

Cheers for the enteretainment fellas
MaTTe

you do realise that a manual valve body auto has to be changed by you?? the auto won't change the gear unless you do it with the shifter, hardly delegating the chore..

as for towing with a manual and a auto, manuals must be better that's why they are rated at being able to tow LESS from the factory

and every comment being made supports what i said, people with less power prefer manuals for the simple reason it makes their cars feel faster..

I do agree in this situation the manual is probably better, but to carry on about how good manuals are is a joke IMO because they have there place but it ain't when you want to go fast (1/4 obviously)

Look at the F6 and the likes, are the manuals faster than the auto brothers?? i think not..

if i had a car with a auto i would simply trick it up shift kit, bit of a stall, clutches/bands billet servo's etc and it will be a totally different car..

auto's are also more forgiving on the rest of the car, you drive that 500hp car with a manual your in for a world of hurt, my Xd was pulling the B pillar out of the roof and the A pillar away from the fire wall, the shock loading with manuals is out of control in big Hp application,s these are things that are minimised with a auto, but i guess if someone has plenty of money and likes drive line and car maintenance that's fine, also the manuals are hard on the crank shafts of the engine once again the shock loading is shocking..

driving a manual hard is fun, but you step up the power it becomes expensive..

correct trans for the correct application..

[Sox]

Before I start, you need to put this into perspective. We're discussing a 4L 6 pack AU Falcon, and the potential fun and thrill factor for the owner.

Originally Posted by protd

you do realise that a manual valve body auto has to be changed by you?? the auto won't change the gear unless you do it with the shifter, hardly delegating the chore..

I think most realise this, but it's hardly relevant to the OP.

as for towing with a manual and a auto, manuals must be better that's why they are rated at being able to tow LESS from the factory

Yep, you're right, and it's a very annoying restriction. From what I understand it's done simply because of warranty issues for the clutch. Ironically I haven't had a clutch failure which was directly attributed to towing in 15 years or so.
Yes, I have replaced several clutches, however in the same situation I would likely have had to do repairs on the equivalent auto.

Interestingly Ford recommend a tranny cooler for the autos when towing, why don't they add a clause to the manuals as well, such as fitting a heavy duty clutch.

Think about it, what do the vast majority of trucks use......

and every comment being made supports what i said, people with less power prefer manuals for the simple reason it makes their cars feel faster..

That may be your opinion, and perhaps even true for some, though not for me.
FYI, back in the early 90's my brother and I owned a 10sec Clevo powered strip car, it had a 'fully sic' auto. Yes, it was appropriate for the application, however it was still lame in it's own kind of way. Yes a manual would have been more effort, harder on the car, and more inconsistent, however it would also have been a load more fun, and only barely slower, if any.

I do agree in this situation the manual is probably better, but to carry on about how good manuals are is a joke IMO because they have there place but it ain't when you want to go fast (1/4 obviously)

True, but highly exaggerated. Manuals are barely slower if at all on the strip. They are just harder to live with.

Look at the F6 and the likes, are the manuals faster than the auto brothers?? i think not..

Sure, the autos are slightly quicker on the dragstrip, but what about around a circuit, or even just around the country side with nice winding roads......

if i had a car with a auto i would simply trick it up shift kit, bit of a stall, clutches/bands billet servo's etc and it will be a totally different car..

Yes it is, but IME it's still got nothing on a manual for fun factor and control.

auto's are also more forgiving on the rest of the car, you drive that 500hp car with a manual your in for a world of hurt, my Xd was pulling the B pillar out of the roof and the A pillar away from the fire wall, the shock loading with manuals is out of control in big Hp application,s these are things that are minimised with a auto, but i guess if someone has plenty of money and likes drive line and car maintenance that's fine, also the manuals are hard on the crank shafts of the engine once again the shock loading is shocking..

Whoah there big fella, perspective! We're not discussing a 500hp drag car.

driving a manual hard is fun, but you step up the power it becomes expensive..

Fair enough, but even so, it's still fun, your bank account will simply be smaller.

correct trans for the correct application..

Sure, but have a close look at THIS application.

Peace, we're all car enthusiasts.

[protd]

Originally Posted by Sox

Before I start, you need to put this into perspective. We're discussing a 4L 6 pack AU Falcon, and the potential fun and thrill factor for the owner.

I think most realise this, but it's hardly relevant to the OP.

Yep, you're right, and it's a very annoying restriction. From what I understand it's done simply because of warranty issues for the clutch. Ironically I haven't had a clutch failure which was directly attributed to towing in 15 years or so.
Yes, I have replaced several clutches, however in the same situation I would likely have had to do repairs on the equivalent auto.

Interestingly Ford recommend a tranny cooler for the autos when towing, why don't they add a clause to the manuals as well, such as fitting a heavy duty clutch.

Think about it, what do the vast majority of trucks use......

That may be your opinion, and perhaps even true for some, though not for me.
FYI, back in the early 90's my brother and I owned a 10sec Clevo powered strip car, it had a 'fully sic' auto. Yes, it was appropriate for the application, however it was still lame in it's own kind of way. Yes a manual would have been more effort, harder on the car, and more inconsistent, however it would also have been a load more fun, and only barely slower, if any.

True, but highly exaggerated. Manuals are barely slower if at all on the strip. They are just harder to live with.

Sure, the autos are slightly quicker on the dragstrip, but what about around a circuit, or even just around the country side with nice winding roads......

Yes it is, but IME it's still got nothing on a manual for fun factor and control.

Whoah there big fella, perspective! We're not discussing a 500hp drag car.

Fair enough, but even so, it's still fun, your bank account will simply be smaller.

Sure, but have a close look at THIS application.

Peace, we're all car enthusiasts.

Ok i was not posting in regards to the original poster, i was simply commenting to the person i quoted not you..

so you have replaced clutches in the manual that has no issue towing, but you assume you need to fix the auto you have never owned

trucks are trucks not cars completely different kettle of fish, i can't see the comparison, maybe I'm missing something??

so you never tried a auto in your brothers car but you think it would have been just as quick, i recon it would have lost at least 3 tenths and consistency would have been completely throw out the window, yeah it's fun driving a car that SEEMS quicker but is in fact slower..

the only manuals that even come close to auto's at the strip are the clutchless types, EG liberty Doug Nash..

I never said auto's were quicker on a winding rd or at the track, but i think if manuals are able to be made do at the strip because they are only marginally slower so could the auto on the winding rd :

I know we're not talking about 500 hp cars but the person i quoted was and my entire post was to him, so i can't see why you needed to comment on something that was not directed at you, but a conversation i was having with someone else...

I'm pretty sure if you take the time to read my whole post you will clearly see i said the manual would be better in this case, maybe you should take the time to read before you get on your high horse and pick my post apart and tell me how bad auto's are and how good manuals are, when the fact is I'm not anti manual, I'm simply putting the other side of the option out there and the pros and cons, instead of just saying this is the best the other sucks and not giving a reason..

enjoy your day..

Lee

[Sox]

Originally Posted by protd

so you have replaced clutches in the manual that has no issue towing, but you assume you need to fix the auto you have never owned

Yep, it stands to reason.
When I say I didn't have a problem with a manual box towing, I mean that a clutch did not fail during or even soon after towing a heavy load. Which is why I said nothing failed as a direct result of towing.

I'm sure a clutch or 2 (over the years) failed prematurely as a result of continuous towing, however I'm certain an auto would also have had a failure of some sort during that time. I'm not sure why you're implying they're bulletproof.
Do you agree or not?

trucks are trucks not cars completely different kettle of fish, i can't see the comparison, maybe I'm missing something??

Pot, kettle, black!
If you can bring 500hp drag cars into it, I can bring 30 ton trucks into it.

so you never tried a auto in your brothers car but you think it would have been just as quick, i recon it would have lost at least 3 tenths and consistency would have been completely throw out the window, yeah it's fun driving a car that SEEMS quicker but is in fact slower..

I agree about consistency, I don't know about the time, 3 tenths seems too much, but I can't say for sure.
And who cares if it is slightly slower, if it's more fun, then it's more fun, what can be said?
Aren't most things we do about fun? Unless of course you're chasing a record of some kind.

the only manuals that even come close to auto's at the strip are the clutchless types, EG liberty Doug Nash..

You're probably right, last time I looked at the drag strip in a competition sense was more than 10 years ago (at EC actually). Back then there were plenty of normal manuals, and a more than a few were as consistant as we were.

I never said auto's were quicker on a winding rd or at the track, but i think if manuals are able to be made do at the strip because they are only marginally slower so could the auto on the winding rd :

How often do you think the OP will take his car to the strip?

I know we're not talking about 500 hp cars but the person i quoted was and my entire post was to him, so i can't see why you needed to comment on something that was not directed at you, but a conversation i was having with someone else...

Oh pardon me for joining back into the discussion. Is it ok if I continue, Sir? :

I'm pretty sure if you take the time to read my whole post you will clearly see i said the manual would be better in this case, maybe you should take the time to read before you get on your high horse and pick my post apart and tell me how bad auto's are and how good manuals are, when the fact is I'm not anti manual, I'm simply putting the other side of the option out there and the pros and cons, instead of just saying this is the best the other sucks and not giving a reason..

I think you need to relax a little matey. :

[protd]

once again read my post properly before you comment..

i never brought 500hp cars into it THE PERSON I WAS QUOTING DID and my response was to him not you..

basically you have no experience with auto's yet you bag them.. you use assumptions and no real world experience..

you can join in what ever conversation you like, just read what is being said before you go off running your mouth..



oh and for what it's worth trucks used in mines are auto's, probably because a manual could not handle pulling 100 ton of dirt up a 25% incline out of the pit all day, but you would no that wouldn't you....


anyway you won't change my opinion, i won't change yours.. that's life
once again enjoy your day..

[ten[A]cio[U]s]

I really never meant to make an arguement about this subject. I was simple enquiring what people opinions are for my car. Its no rocket ship.. It will never need to tow, Its not a strip car, I do a conjsiderable amount of highway driving.

What worries me about auto
- Boring!
- Stall + 100km/h on highway i will lose fuel economy and will still be slipping which will heat the box up and enough of this can cause damage
- $3000 to build a box i SHOULD be happy with but will still be auto
- Fuel economy around town will be worse then it is now and its pretty bad

Positives of auto
- Ease of use when im lazy
- With a decent box should get good launch
- Every now and then will bring smile to my face

What worries me with Manual
- Car came as auto so legalities and insurance
- Hillie area so having to change gears a lot (not really a problem)
- How well it will work after conversion
- If i go crazy later on will it hold this magic 500hp?

Positives of Manual
- Smile on my face every time i drive it
- Car will feel more alive (and yeah maybe quicker.... )
- Better fuel economy
- Cruising at 100km/h wont be a worry, still get fuel economy

Its a win/win lose/lose situation. I just wanted p[eople experience in similar situation froms similar positions. The car could have been quick not long ago, but plans changed. Now i just want to have a bit of fun with it and not try and be a bloody rocket ship..

[Sox]

Originally Posted by protd

once again read my post properly before you comment..

I've read them, though I still have little clue as to what you're saying.

i never brought 500hp cars into it THE PERSON I WAS QUOTING DID and my response was to him not you..

Nonsense, you implied it with your very first post in this thread.
Your words -

people with f@rk all hp love manuals, makes their doe bags feel fast..

What's that supposed to mean? Particularly when you have a 500hp car mentioned in your sig.

basically you have no experience with auto's yet you bag them.. you use assumptions and no real world experience..

Who's not reading the posts now?
I've owned at least 3 (off the top of my head) of which I've already mentioned, and drag raced an auto for at least 5 years, which I've also mentioned.
It's those experiences which allow me to make a good enough judgement to not ever own one again.
And I still have the 'privelage' of driving my folks auto when I play taxi for them on occassion. Oh joy.

you can join in what ever conversation you like, just read what is being said before you go off running your mouth..

I've read it and read it, yet I'm still not sure whether you're just trolling or have any worthwhile input to this thread.
I'm pretty certain that everything you've brought up has no relevance to the OP.
Classic trolling.

oh and for what it's worth trucks used in mines are auto's, probably because a manual could not handle pulling 100 ton of dirt up a 25% incline out of the pit all day, but you would no that wouldn't you....

Nope, I have no idea.

anyway you won't change my opinion, i won't change yours.. that's life
once again enjoy your day..

I'm not trying to change your opinion, I'm trying to give the original OP my experiences, something which you haven't done.
Remember how helpful your OP was in this thread?