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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#31 | |||
let it burn
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: QUEENSLANDER!!!!!
Posts: 2,866
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Quote:
Theres a trade off between safety and practicality already. If you dont agree with the posted limit (the balance they struck), fine, I may agree with you in places. If you think there should be better infrastructure, I wont argue with that, who would? But I will never agree that driving under or at a posted limit is difficult, and that falling 'victim' to the fines is unavoidable. Governments want money? What, are you shocked by that? Im not, but I dont have to pay it and if I did, Id kick myself for being so stupid, not the goobermint, or the police. |
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#32 | |||
Mot Adv-NSW
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lake Macquarie, NSW
Posts: 2,153
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Quote:
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ORDER FORD AUSTRALIA PART NO: AM6U7J19G329AA. This is a European-UN/AS3790B Spec safety-warning triangle used to give advanced warning to approaching traffic of a vehicle breakdown, or crash scene (to prevent secondary). Stow in the boot area. See your Ford dealer for this $35.95 safety item & when you buy a new Ford, please insist on it! See Page 83, part 4.4.1 http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/media...eSafePart4.pdf |
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#33 | |||
.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 6,197
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Quote:
Roads have natural rythms, rarely do speedlimits match them. |
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#34 | ||||
let it burn
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: QUEENSLANDER!!!!!
Posts: 2,866
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Quote:
Tyre wear makes the speedo read higher, that is speedo says 100, radar reads 97 for example. It wont make the speedo read under what youre actually doing. The tyre would need to get bigger to go the other way. Quote:
Im only responding to the argument that a fine is unfair, that drivers cant avoid it, and the government are thieves. You dont need to steal from clowns trying to hand you money. |
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#35 | |||
Broken
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,845
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Quote:
I have NEVER condoned EXCESSIVE, INAPPROPRIATE vehicular velocity, rather I have actually written to the contrary, and I will continue to do so. However, I won't change my view about the audacity of fining motorists for a couple of percent in excess of signposted limit. It is not reasonable. Nor is it a pathway to safer roads. And zip you've typed has made me think otherwise. Regardless, you are not mistaken about my vehicular inadequacy - I do sometimes find it most difficult, and certainly tiresome to maintain my long legged, near 300rwkw car exactly at, or preferrably (according to you), below the signage directed 'limits'. Trouble is I tend to look outside of the motorvehicle while driving it down some street / road / highway. Ive yet to run over someone inside of the car you see. Hence my attention is predominantly directed through the windscreen. Heads up display - maybe that's what I need. Or an in built GPS. Or a speed cam up my clacker. And cruise control on a typical hwy? Not worth jack in my car - allows the car to reach about 15 kms over the set point before simply giving up and switching off..... ![]() Your retort no doubt will be much of the same you've soap boxed about previously, so lets have it. ![]()
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The Scud GT 11.4 @ 128, 1.88 60ft. |
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#36 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Melbourne, Vic
Posts: 421
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Quote:
Well, under the law, I can't do 61 in a 60 zone, and here in Victoria, I get the oh-so-generous "tolerance" of 3 km/h before I'm considered spawn of satan, and stung with a fine and/or points loss. How about a scenario: You have the choice of being a passenger in one of two cars, being driven by two different drivers. The driver of the first car, is completely paranoid about speeding, and religiously checks the speedo to make sure he's not 0.5 km/h over the limit. The driver of the second car, well... he might slip occasionally and end up doing 65 in a 60 zone, but he pays far more attention to the road and traffic conditions. Which car would you rather be a passenger in? Which car would you rather have behind you? I know which I'd choose. And yes, I know that it's possible to be attentive to the road and to your speed... but, let's face it, they let anybody drive... and a lot of people will be like driver #1 above, and be really clueless as to their surroundings. I've seen it, you've seen it - everyone has seen it. |
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#37 | ||
Getting it done.....
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 2,219
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What is so frustrating with these attacks on speeding is that the stats used from the 'motor accident comission' are totally bogus. I mean from a logical standpoint just think about it....do you really think changing your speed by 5km/h (up or down...no-one mentions the disruption to traffic by going slower either...) would double your chance of a fatal crash.
For this to be true, accounting for the slighly higher chance of death by having an accident at the 5km/h higher speed you would have to have a close to 60% greater chance of crashing purely on account of the higher speed....does this sound likley??? For a much more extensive view of what causes death on the roads i would suggest you look at this caradvice story and the report it references: http://www.caradvice.com.au/6756/spe...-its-official/ It found that if you look at fatal accidents only exceeding the speed limit was a factor in only 10% of cases (exceeding a safe speed was 13%). It is quite a detailed report which looks at where accidents happen, the causes (primary and contributory) and who is involved (age groups etc.) Totally debunks most of the stuff you here in the media and from the government. I was surprised myself on some areas but it is totally logical when you think about it and look at where accidents happen. For example, just how high the accident rate per kilometre is for urban driving versus highway/motorway. Which makes a mockery of the highway speed cameras at the expense of employing more officers to be on the beat in urban areas observing unsafe driving and taking action there.
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Dynamic White 1995 EF XR6 Auto Now with: Pacemaker 4499s Lukey Catback Exhaust Chrome BA XR-style tip Airdam Mounted CAI with modified (bellmouth) airbox Trip Computer install KYB shocks Bridgestone Adrenalin tyres Coming Soon: Exhaust Overhaul..... |
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#38 | ||||
let it burn
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: QUEENSLANDER!!!!!
Posts: 2,866
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Swordsman, now theres an argument. I dont know if its right or not as I havent read it, but it focuses on facts and figures at least.
You people should learn from this. If you dont like the limit, look at real reasons for its change. Make logical arguments that are supported by data. None of this "Im inept and therefore need special treatment, goobermint revenue blah blah wah wah". But you will never successfully defend the claim that creeping over the limit should be acceptable. Do you want change to get reasonable limits, or do you just want to whinge? Quote:
Do you ever take responsibility for yourself? Given the account for your original post, the "it was light hearted" while specifically mentioning me, and then to blame the car yet expect to be able to drive it, tells me probably not. Where in my post to you, did I mention excessive speed? Where did I defend the level at which a limit is set, or even the necessity for a 100km/h limit on freeways for example? Where did I say goobermints dont grab for cash? I didnt, I know goobermints grab for cash. Doesnt change it, you dont have to pay it. I defended the notion that the fine is a voluntary tax which was what you raised, and now acknowledge you cant avoid. Again it doesnt change it, its an idiot tax, and purely voluntary for anyone who is not an idiot. Quote:
Dont know about you, but I can walk and chew gum at the same time. Im not special, my wife does it too. |
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#39 | ||
XP Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,098
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Interesting tool. I haven't checked if the braking distance varies by the square of the velocity.
http://www.stoppingdistances.org.uk/...Distances.html |
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#40 | ||
growing up is optional
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Gawler area SA
Posts: 3,303
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Speeding is a major cause of road accidents for sure, but driver education, or lack of it, is a much bigger one IMO.
It is too late to learn how to control a skid when its already happening on a wet road with lots of things around to hit (trees, other cars etc). As long as you can do a hill start, parallel park and pay the money, the bean counters will give you a piece of paper that allows you to drive. What a joke! Living in a country area, I get to see a lot of city drivers make potentially fatal errors on weekends on the roads. The same could be said for country drivers in cities too. Educate drivers properly!!! |
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#41 | ||
XP Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,098
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#42 | |||
13.96 @ 101.65
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Rockingham WA
Posts: 1,577
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Quote:
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BLUEPRINT XR6T XR8 CAI - K&N Filter - T56 - Generic Tune
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#43 | |||
Broken
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,845
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Quote:
Back to topic, fines / sanctions for IDIOTS for any velocity exceeding that signed.
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The Scud GT 11.4 @ 128, 1.88 60ft. |
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#44 | |||
Getting it done.....
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 2,219
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Quote:
This is my point...it isn't. That is to say, if only 10% of accidents involved driving over the speed limit (and some of these must have been by a hell of a lot above the limit) then creeping or driving above the limit (if safe for the conditions) is most likley pefectly fine. In some cases (highway driving etc.) German reports have found it is safer because it reduces fatigue (a major source of crashes on motorways etc.) The argument that we shoud all 'slow down' so if an accident happens you won't hit something at a higher speed, or be able to stop etc. is just silly because if you use that we would all walk everywhere. Since the NT government introduced speed limits on the open highways deaths on the road have gone from 44 in 2006 (pre limits) to 57 in 2007 and on current numbers will be 65 at least this year. Either it made the open roads more dangerous or a lack of focus on the real causes (drink driving, no seatbelts, urban accidents in Darwin) has led to more deaths (or both). It is my belief that people should be informed on this issue rather than just have a rant..... I would admit to regularly 'speeding' (that is exceeding the speed limit) but never speed (that is going faster than conditions). However, unless i believe the police have broken the law in booking me (as in using a measuring device against their own guidelines) i won't complain. Just pay the fee.....it was my fault i got busted. However, i exceed the limits because they are rubbish, they are never consistent and are a 'one size fits all' solution (which is silly). I have driven on roads in north queensland with limts of 80 or 100 (yes even the highways) that i would struggle to do the limit on in the dry.....what does that say about people who do this everyday in the wet??? In brisbane i must do 110 max on the M1 otherwise i'm the devil....that road in the dry should be 130km/h, which coincidentally was the number it was engineered to do (like most motorways in australia). I'd happily do 40km/h in surburban streets in return for raised limits on motorways, but apparently this won't happen anytime soon. As you say, keeping to a speed limit and the limit set are two different arguments. In saying that, more representative limits might reduce the chances of people exceeding the limit and a greater focus on policing/training drivers might have more effect on reducing the road toll than installing tonnes of speed cameras which apart from taxing road users and encouraging a misguided focus on speed (rather than looking where you are going) are also shifting our attention away from the real problems. -lack of training/skills - lack of attention on our roads - lack of policing or road rules/behaviour - poor infrastructure
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Dynamic White 1995 EF XR6 Auto Now with: Pacemaker 4499s Lukey Catback Exhaust Chrome BA XR-style tip Airdam Mounted CAI with modified (bellmouth) airbox Trip Computer install KYB shocks Bridgestone Adrenalin tyres Coming Soon: Exhaust Overhaul..... |
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#45 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
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We can all argue, debate and gnash teeth about the relative merits of the system of fining motorists who exceed the posted limit, but at the end of the day we all have the ability to avoid detection or "voluntary contributions"... choose to ignore them as an act of defiance and the consequences are pretty obvious....
Its also worth noting that a member here who is an ambo said they'd never attended a fatal accident where speeding above the posted limit wasn't involved.
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335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars.. ![]() |
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#46 | |||
Formally Kia Chaser
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 2,493
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Quote:
Going by that, why don't they lower 60 kph zones to 55kph and 70 to 65, and half the accident risk.... My theory is that if your travelling faster, you would have avoided the incident because you would have already passed the area where it would have happened...
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Kia Grand Carnival (2006) Silver, Grill Mesh, Tints, Sidesteps (with lights), Towbar, 7" Touch Screen DVD Tuner with intergrated GPS & Bluetooth, Roof Mounted Flip Down 15.1" LCD Screen, Reverse Camera - 184Kw HSV Clubsport R8 VY (2003) Black, 6sp Manual, Coulson Seats, Red on black interior, Pacemaker extractors, Twin 2.5" exhaust, Custom Red 20" VE GTS Rims, Custom Red Stitching
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#47 | |||
Parts bin special
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Narre Warren, Vic
Posts: 8,275
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Quote:
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Weekender 1964 US Falcon Futura convertible - Rangoon Red 260 Windsor V8, 4 speed manual, LHD, Electronic ignition, Mustang wheels https://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11470868 Daily 2014 SZII Territory diesel - basic runabout Previous Cars 1990 EAII Fairmont Ghia - Tickford engine, 5 speed, SVO wheels, bodykit, much more 2000 AUII Fairmont - XR wheels, Ghia interior 2010 FG XR50T ute - XR8 bonnet, Streetfighter intake |
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#48 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
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Quote:
As for your theory.. well its pretty stupid.
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335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars.. ![]() |
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#49 | |||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,536
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if you change the wheel/tyre combo on your car from what it was when it left the factory, it is your responsibility as owner of the vehicle to make sure it complies and that speedo is correct. |
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#50 | |||
Blue blooded
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Geelong, Vic
Posts: 1,638
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Quote:
I'm in full agreeance on the last statement you made though, I witness drivers making stupid decisions almost everytime I go out for a drive, mostly decisions that would otherwise result in a fatality, if there were a greater volume of traffic present. Too many people think they're invincible on the road, and sadly haven't been taught a harsh enough lesson in life as of yet. |
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#51 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Melbourne, Vic
Posts: 421
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Quote:
Forget the fact that the driver was centimetres from the rear end of the car in front and had no hope of stopping in time, whether travelling within the limit or not. Lies, damned lies, and statistics... |
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#52 | |||
let it burn
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: QUEENSLANDER!!!!!
Posts: 2,866
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Quote:
No argument on doing the limit in poor conditions. I dont recall ever being told that is what you should do. I was told to drive to conditions upto the posted limit if that is safe to do so, not always do the limit. I certainly never read it in any testing book, or test. I tend to agree at least at certain times, the new sections of the M1 GC could be 130, I'd feel safe doing it under a proviso. As has been pointed out here before, there are U-turn facilities along it for emergency vehicles (these or something similar are necessary). If used by someone else, who knows how safe that would be. I dont make an argument supporting speed limits as they stand, I do support them in suburban areas. I certainly dont think the current licence standards and driver training are anywhere near good enough. But I could argue, that driver training in controlling skids for example while having the obvious benefits can instill a bullet proof mentality in others. You would need to find what would be more likely. Not guess at it. That bullet proof mentality appears here far too often. |
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#53 | |||
Getting it done.....
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 2,219
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Quote:
As for the whole 'advanced driver training' debate, it is an interesting one. Once again, stats can be used to support both points of view, some reports i've read have said it is advisable, others say it promotes unsafe driving. At the end of the day i struggle to see how knowing how to control a car better in a range of conditions (remembering that most of these courses include theoretical discussion aswell) can be a bad thing. If set up properly with equal emphasis on avoiding bad situations and advice on safe driving habits it seems ok to me. I think alot of drivers when they realise just how hard it is to swerve and recover a car or the effect of water on stopping distances would drive very differently in a positive, not negative way.
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Dynamic White 1995 EF XR6 Auto Now with: Pacemaker 4499s Lukey Catback Exhaust Chrome BA XR-style tip Airdam Mounted CAI with modified (bellmouth) airbox Trip Computer install KYB shocks Bridgestone Adrenalin tyres Coming Soon: Exhaust Overhaul..... |
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#54 | ||||
let it burn
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: QUEENSLANDER!!!!!
Posts: 2,866
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Quote:
Ive heard others argue in regards to the torrential rain anyone not doing 110 are a hazard as they cant be seen in time and traveling slower than the traffic is a hazard as no-one can react. Ill bet a thousand $$ if they were told the proper answer for the test in the guide book, they would give the proper answer, but still drive how they like. I recall on my test (long time ago) there was a question on braking in the wet, and asked for a distance based on a calculation given in the book. Quote:
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#55 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
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Millions of people drive every day without incident or needing defensive or advanced driver training beyond what they learn as learners......
Lack of correct Driver attitude is the issue, not lack of driver training. Smart drivers asses the conditions presented to them and don't take unnecessary risks, and that includes speeding beyond what's safe for the conditions they're faced with.
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335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars.. ![]() |
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#56 | |||
growing up is optional
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Gawler area SA
Posts: 3,303
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Quote:
Excessive speed is definitely a major cause of accidents. How many times do you see on the news a car cut in half after hitting a pole on a suburban street. It takes more than 55kph to do that. I have helped cut several people (alive and otherwise) out of mangled cars and it aint pretty. Some things stay with you for life. Like the time we cut an elderly lady out of a ZK Fairlane, with her dead husband sitting beside her. If the idiot going the other way around the sweeping bend wasn't speeding and had managed to keep his car on the right side of road then I guess they would have made i home safely that night. The length of the skid marks leading up to the point of impact were incredible and indicated a speed well over the posted limit. He walked away unscathed. |
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#57 | |||
.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 6,197
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#58 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Adelaide Nthn suburbs
Posts: 546
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Its just another scare campaign, nobody listens to them, they dont work.
They made this creeping crap up and where's the proof that "creeping" has a major effect on road accidents/death ?
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Quote: Originally Posted by XCPWSF Is there portable speed cameras? Because coming home from school I noticed a cop sitting on the corner, with some box with buttons and knobs, with wires running into one of the big gum trees. Just practicing with the Tazer on a Koala? |
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#59 | ||
.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 6,197
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^^ I'm a creep and I'm not dead.
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#60 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,798
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Quote:
Unfortunately the driving instructors also tech you to pass a test, not how to drive the car. One thought I would like to put out is have new cars out there been designed now that it can be quite easy to be distracted or not learn any skills. Things like auto's, T/C, esp, cruise control. While fantastic devices (auto is debatable) do people concentrate less as they would feel they just have to steer and things will be ok??
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Daniel |
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