Toughest gearbox for the au?? - Page 2

**Stav** · 11-01-2009, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

Think of it like an engine, they run best at a certain operating temp.
Below this and pistons aren't the correct shape and size, clearances are greater etc. Wear is significantly increased.
Above this and things grow and clearances get tighter and wear is also accelerated.

Everything has an optimum operating temperature.

Mind you, I still think you should ditch the auto.
Even when they are working properly, they are still junk.

They are junk. The more I think of it the more want a manual. The car will be ready tommorow though. I was asking for trouble from the beggining by modifying my work car..

b2tf · 11-01-2009, 08:54 AM

I agree with private9 - every few weeks you seem to be messing with something and pushing it to its limits, then when it breaks you come on here and say it was ford crap and was never good enough etc etc.

If you dont want anything to break, leave the car alone.

RG · 11-01-2009, 09:04 AM

Stav I want to know what you are doing to these boxes. I'm still running an unmodded BTR with no cooler in mine and it's still coping just fine. It's done 60k behind the stroker, a dozen or more passes on the 1/4, a day at the skid pan plus my general abuse of it. The worst it has done is slip when it was low on fluid, sook when it gets too hot and blow a bit of oil out the breather after a couple of passes.

**Stav** · 11-01-2009, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b2tf

I agree with private9 - every few weeks you seem to be messing with something and pushing it to its limits, then when it breaks you come on here and say it was ford crap and was never good enough etc etc.

If you dont want anything to break, leave the car alone.

I havent touched the car in over a year mate. Just engine oil and spark plugs . I have been driving it to last not to blow..so I think you are alittle off the track. I have done 35000 killometres last year though.

**Stav** · 11-01-2009, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell

Stav I want to know what you are doing to these boxes. I'm still running an unmodded BTR with no cooler in mine and it's still coping just fine. It's done 60k behind the stroker, a dozen or more passes on the 1/4, a day at the skid pan plus my general abuse of it. The worst it has done is slip when it was low on fluid, sook when it gets too hot and blow a bit of oil out the breather after a couple of passes.

I am driving the car to and from work. Saw the drags 2 times last year?? I dont understand it. From my perception after 5 boxes I have formed the opinion that ford cannot make a box to last.

RG · 11-01-2009, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stav

I am driving the car to and from work. Saw the drags 2 times last year?? I dont understand it. From my perception after 5 boxes I have formed the opinion that ford cannot make a box to last.

Stav I don't want to sound like the bad guy but ever thought it may be you and your car as opposed to Ford?

**Stav** · 11-01-2009, 09:20 AM

Yes. that is why I had the last box stregthened somewhat and it still dies.You are not the bad guy.You are all good guys. I would rather know the reality of why? Are they not tough enough for 170 rwkws? Are they not tough enough for a higher stall convertor? Sure my car hauls fast but I like to know why it went. Or is my transmission place playing me?

GT0132 · 11-01-2009, 09:54 AM

Here's something that may interest you

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11243633

StealthAu · 11-01-2009, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stav

Yes. that is why I had the last box stregthened somewhat and it still dies.You are not the bad guy.You are all good guys. I would rather know the reality of why? Are they not tough enough for 170 rwkws? Are they not tough enough for a higher stall convertor? Sure my car hauls fast but I like to know why it went. Or is my transmission place playing me?

Change your plumbing around, from auto to cooler to radiator.
I think they can handle the power, 200rwkw's and my stock auto is still working fine, slipping and free reving, just fine.

bloggs24 · 11-01-2009, 10:13 AM

wow, this thread is getting me worried about having bypassed my radiator completely. then again im sure its hotter out here in the country, and im not running 170rwkw :P

5.0 ED · 11-01-2009, 12:34 PM

once again, 271rwkw's thru a 2nd hand box i got from the wreckers, driven everyday for 2years. except of course when i broke a piston 5 times, on this transmission I had cut wires to solonoid 3 and 4, and put a dummy load on the tran computer. I'd call it a stage 4 shift kit.

My AU has done 320,000km's now still on the original box, and pushing around 200rwkw's now, have had to change shift sittings, but box is handling it all good.

5.0 ED · 11-01-2009, 12:37 PM

Stav - but your only running a 2500 hi stall, its not that greater difference from standard, but as i said earlier the sprag is the weak link in the auto's and in D launching off the stall, you will be only using the small sprag to launch the car, in 1st in locks up a set of clutch packs overtop and makes it super strong, its the shock that breaks the sprags.

The Monty · 11-01-2009, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5.0whiteaughia

Stav - but your only running a 2500 hi stall, its not that greater difference from standard, but as i said earlier the sprag is the weak link in the auto's and in D launching off the stall, you will be only using the small sprag to launch the car, in 1st in locks up a set of clutch packs overtop and makes it super strong, its the shock that breaks the sprags.

Are you saying that by me driving like a manual ALL the time and launching in 1st rather than D has maybe prolonged the life of my box? Its weird, I have manually shifted for 120 000k's now, even had compression lock ups at times, 6 drags nights, 2 skid pans, dyno's and only 2 services and its 270 000k's old, solenoid S5 wound up a half turn and it shifts better than my mums brand new recoed one. Im suprised mine isnt dead yet, I guess its only a matter of time.

5.0 ED · 11-01-2009, 01:35 PM

By manually holding the auto in first on launches, yes it makes the transmission stronger, a lot stronger.

As for wear, then yes it will decrease wear on the sprag, I think it would even decrease wear on the clutch pack as from memory it stays engaged thru all forward gears. where as in D its unengaged in first and then gets engaged in 2nd or 3rd, and each engage un engage causes where.

All auto's wear out eventually how long they last just depends on temp/servicing/and overall treatment.

**Stav** · 11-01-2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5.0whiteaughia

Stav - but your only running a 2500 hi stall, its not that greater difference from standard, but as i said earlier the sprag is the weak link in the auto's and in D launching off the stall, you will be only using the small sprag to launch the car, in 1st in locks up a set of clutch packs overtop and makes it super strong, its the shock that breaks the sprags.

I belive this is why my box blew. I just love the getaway of the car and I use it. So you are saying that if I drive the car off in 1st manually the box will last longer right? Also the s3 and s4 shift kit is the one I had in past boxes.Will it extend the boxes life?

5.0 ED · 11-01-2009, 07:24 PM

If the box is modded in any way it could eventually blow them up, I personally would not run it on anything except a geniune ford box, your talking about around 800kpa of full line pressure slamming the clutches on into the back of the drums, which are only a couple mm thick alloy, i've never had one break from it, but i have had aftermarket bands shatter the lining off them from doing this shift kit.

Best way to get extended life and extreme hard shifts is to have something controlling the shift solonoid from 0-full pressure, i've been toying with the idea of making a unit that varies the rate of the solonoid rather than its pressure.

If u had broken the sprag then yes holding it in first could have very well have stopped it from happening, what's best to do is modified the shift rod so that its the same as a T series auto, that way in drive it takes off with the clutch engaged. I would put it down to this along with the cold tranny temp.

As for reco auto's my advice to you would be to just either find a good 2nd hand tranny for now, or purchase one of the new ford auto's that were available, im not 100% sure if u can still get them, but we purchased one for $2k around 2 years ago from a place in geelong vic, brand spanking new. Not reco'd.

**Stav** · 12-01-2009, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5.0whiteaughia

If the box is modded in any way it could eventually blow them up, I personally would not run it on anything except a geniune ford box, your talking about around 800kpa of full line pressure slamming the clutches on into the back of the drums, which are only a couple mm thick alloy, i've never had one break from it, but i have had aftermarket bands shatter the lining off them from doing this shift kit.

Best way to get extended life and extreme hard shifts is to have something controlling the shift solonoid from 0-full pressure, i've been toying with the idea of making a unit that varies the rate of the solonoid rather than its pressure.

If u had broken the sprag then yes holding it in first could have very well have stopped it from happening, what's best to do is modified the shift rod so that its the same as a T series auto, that way in drive it takes off with the clutch engaged. I would put it down to this along with the cold tranny temp.

As for reco auto's my advice to you would be to just either find a good 2nd hand tranny for now, or purchase one of the new ford auto's that were available, im not 100% sure if u can still get them, but we purchased one for $2k around 2 years ago from a place in geelong vic, brand spanking new. Not reco'd.

Hmm..understand...I wish I got a second hand one but already committed to a reco box from the auto place. So in a nutshell ..a recoed box may have aftermarket bands as mine did .I see exactly now why my box blew up .This auto place has refused to install my hi stall convertor and give me warranty. I am not a happy..
edit half way through my posts i rang them .My hi stall will go in. They said it was the metal inside they were worried about...its getting cleaned and i should have it tommorow. the broken component was a drum..whatever that is?

**Mechan1k** · 12-01-2009, 09:09 AM

Stav .. go an speak to Joe about a box.

The rebuilt BTR I had in my AU ute was awesome ... it's the same BTR that's in an EL GHIA V8 running NOS ... and the owner drives it like he stole it all the time ... if the car is not being thrashed it means it is stopped and turned off. And that box has lasted a long time for him as well.

Not sure if you managed to get to that dealership and etst drive my old ute ... but last i looked it was still sitting in the yard ... it had a very precise shift ... and I used t manually shift it all of the time with load on ... there was never hesitation in shifting at all .. I had a cooler on the frotn as well. .. and from memory it was running into the cooler and then back into the radiator as well (I was advised against running standalone) ... mind you I had a twin core radiator in the ute as well.

**Stav** · 12-01-2009, 11:31 AM

Simon I took it to the guys who buily it to see if theyd fix it simply. I would have taken it someone like Joe if Iknew it was blown. This far and the box out I will give these guys the benefit of the doubt as I am already charged this far. cheers mate..

What blows the drums?

5.0 ED · 12-01-2009, 11:59 AM

drums hold the clutch's, the cold tranny fluid would have a lot to with this, like i said, really hard shift pressure slams clutches into the back of drum like a hammer, each gear change until eventually it brakes.

And being that i have had aftermarket bands brake, it doesn't mean they are all crap, some i'm sure would be better than stock, but as for brands i couldn't tell you.

**Stav** · 12-01-2009, 09:02 PM

With no shift kit but just the stallie I can see that the shock of me taking off unstalled would create decent pressure there.

My gearbox temps on the freeway we 40 degrees celcius or less. In traffic it sees average 60 to 7o degrees. Perhaps I will listen to you and run it via the factory tank...

I will ask my box builder tommorow.
Can we get stronger drums?

**Stav** · 12-01-2009, 09:17 PM

5.0 whiteghia. With your shift kit I recommend a few rpm switches which in turn can provided a circuit to a higher or lower resistance at at the desired rpm. The effect will be varying the line pressure within the box with rpm.

5.0 ED · 12-01-2009, 09:56 PM

not sure on stronger drums

As for shift kit, at lower rpms if its a fast shift it will still be smoother, you don't want something too complicated cause it'll end up costing lots to make. Another way is i could make a unit that intercepts the signal out of the eec and is based of that, so that when it starts to shift it is equal with eec but ramps a lot faster, probably the best way to go, all resistor mods don't change ramp rate, they just make the start of the cycle heavy.

**Stav** · 13-01-2009, 03:53 PM

You have to work out the phasing of the solenoids for the particular gear change. Then the line pressure required to make th shift firmer and quicker.It will depend on the state of your clutches bands et. as well.

I got my car back just now and feels very unresponsive but I am not gonna flog my love hate wagon anymore. I will drive it normal easy to last more than the last one.

5.0 ED · 13-01-2009, 04:27 PM

lol I wonder how long your going to be able to resist the temptation?

As for phasing it actually doesn't matter, cause u still use the eec for that part, all that would be happening is the eec signal is altered in ratio rather than just reducing it all over.

**Stav** · 13-01-2009, 06:57 PM

The abstinence occurs when I open my wallet and its 1650 dollars lighter. I need a car that works. The car feels very unresponsive on the way home but I know that my car needs a retune every time its battery is reset. So fingers crossed.

I also ran a few points across my auto guy. He agreed that takeoff in first makes the sprag stronger. He disagreed that the hotter box is better though.He was very convinced that my cooler temps are better. Also I am 100% convinced of what broke my drum...slightly forward in neutral then reverse. I remember the moment and wondered if i damaged anything. Looks like I did. I dont know why ..but the car feels slow..will sort it in due course and even though I have quit the drags with this box I will be on the lookout for a manual performance box. These boxes are not strong. I saw my drum today and where the circlip goes the teeth were gone !!

**Stav** · 13-01-2009, 07:08 PM

Drums are made of alloy..perhaps a stronger material could be used?

**Stav** · 13-01-2009, 08:07 PM

Just went for an easy drive and all I can say is wow! I think it is ridiculously different. The gear changes are amazing and hit high speed without trying..Id love to give a blat at wsid but these things cost too much!!

poolkeeper · 13-01-2009, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stav

Just went for an easy drive and all I can say is wow! I think it is ridiculously different. The gear changes are amazing and hit high speed without trying..Id love to give a blat at wsid but these things cost too much!!

What did you do?

5.0 ED · 13-01-2009, 08:46 PM

That shouldn't have broken a drum that easy, but as i said the colder temp makes things brittle, and in the case of going forward to reverse etc, the stall should actually help due to it giving less push at idle, unless your idle speed is higher, or you've touched the pedal.

Anyway ford run the tranny cooler lines thru the cooler and then radiator for a reason. I can introduce you to many transmission experts who'll agree with me on it, i could also probably find you many that won't.

All i'll say is that there's trans reconditioners and then there's trans reconditioners who's gearboxes don't blow up after a year or 2.