The Heart of the 2011 Falcon

[Joe5619]

I'm surprised the LPG one is as high as it is.. Wonder if it will translate to move sales for the LPG when it is introduced.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I'm surprised the LPG one is as high as it is.. Wonder if it will translate to move sales for the LPG when it is introduced.

Don't be surprised, there are a huge number of LPG enthusiests in the forum but as you have stated, wallets speak louder than keyboards so sales may or may not reflect the poll.

[Romulus]

You missed a diesel option. I'm a big advocate of the oil burner. Look at how popular Merc's and BM diesel vehicles are. Their performance is on par with larger petrol powered equivelant models due to the huge amount of torque produced. Piezo electric injectors are wonderful things. Fuel economy is also very good, much better than similar sized petrol engines.

I think the line-up should be:
I4T
I6TD/V6TD
Dual fuel I6 (T)
S/C V8

Surely it cannot be that complex to run a dual fuel I6 engine (with a turbo if one wants one).

I think economy is the new performance benchmark, and it will be a race to see which local manufacturer can release the most economical large size sedan. Holden are already trumping their wares with the 3.0 DI engine and as I have stated in another post I believe Ford are taking too long introducting the I4T in 2011. It should be brought forward to next year, inline with Euro 4 compliance engines.

Back to diesel for a moment. One of the largest gripes against diesel powered cars is not so much the stigma attached with oil burner engines, but the refuelling experience. I do a lot of work on service station upgrades and upgrading pumps for diesel product is high on the agenda by most of the major oil companies. There's nothing more annoying than having to refuel where trucks fill up, walking through the fuel stained forecourt and dragging your dirty shoes back into your car. I bet the car companies wish the oil companies would lift their game.

[ED Classic]

I cant give 1 vote as I think a few of those engines are essential to be honest. I would have a Diesel in Territory as buyers of those SUV/4WD look for a Diesel more than LPG etc but keep LPG for Falcon along with your engines mentioned but no NA V8...Just a Supercharged 8

[GT69]

Its interesting times ahead, if the I4T lives up to its power figures, it could well make the I6 redundant, If the I6 is redundant, i cant see FoA keeping the I6T. Leaving Falcon with a 4T and V8 line up. Not necessarily a BAD thing, but consumer choice will be cut right back. Sure other companies make plenty of sales with limited engine options but if all engines could live together, that would be excellent.

You also get to a situation where, if the I4T is around 205kw, very close to the I6, then to option the I6 up to around 220kw - 230kw would keep it in the game as a valid upgrade from the 4T, but for this to happen you'd also need the I6T optioned up to atleast 290 - 310kw (an almost certain thing if you look at power options from B series to F series) Of course you can only do that when the 'top' engine (the V8 of course) can be pushed to around the 320 - 330kw mark. Leaving FPV to roll out the S/C 350 - 380kw V8 and the F6 around the 345 - 375kw mark.

If all that can happen, then I think we'll all be happy. The government not so much though. LOL its only a power war if Holden come up with some form of reply. Otherwise I believe its known as a rick roll.

[R-Design]

A quick review of the results based on category:

Category Qty %

1. Cylinders
4 13 8.6%
6 91 59.9%
8 48 31.6%

2. Fuel Type
LPG 29 19.1%
Petol 123 80.9%

3. Type
Consumption 69 45.39%
Performance 83 54.61%

4. Aspiration
N/A 66 43.4%
Boosted 86 56.6%

[flappist]

Originally Posted by GT69

Its interesting times ahead, if the I4T lives up to its power figures, it could well make the I6 redundant, If the I6 is redundant, i cant see FoA keeping the I6T. Leaving Falcon with a 4T and V8 line up. Not necessarily a BAD thing, but consumer choice will be cut right back. Sure other companies make plenty of sales with limited engine options but if all engines could live together, that would be excellent.

You also get to a situation where, if the I4T is around 205kw, very close to the I6, then to option the I6 up to around 220kw - 230kw would keep it in the game as a valid upgrade from the 4T, but for this to happen you'd also need the I6T optioned up to atleast 290 - 310kw (an almost certain thing if you look at power options from B series to F series) Of course you can only do that when the 'top' engine (the V8 of course) can be pushed to around the 320 - 330kw mark. Leaving FPV to roll out the S/C 350 - 380kw V8 and the F6 around the 345 - 375kw mark.

If all that can happen, then I think we'll all be happy. The government not so much though. LOL its only a power war if Holden come up with some form of reply. Otherwise I believe its known as a rick roll.

I doubt that the 6 will be dropped, if the only parameter was performance then the V8 would have been dropped several years ago when the T6 showed its capability. It wasn't.

There are many reasons to drop the V8. Cheaper rego, perceived greenieness, perceived anti-hooniness and all the other warm and fuzzy political correct insanity that abounds at the moment.

But Ford are not here to be warm and fuzzy, they are here to sell cars and they will make what people want to buy (usually).

Technology is incremental. New ideas are slowly implemented rather than rammed down peoples throats. IRS was an a couple of models, then a few more and is still not available on all models. VCT, DSC, LPG, F/I et al. are gradually becoming more common but are still restricted to a small part of the range

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Boss315

A quick review of the results based on category:

Category Qty %

1. Cylinders
4 13 8.6%
6 91 59.9%
8 48 31.6%

2. Fuel Type
LPG 29 19.1%
Petrol 123 80.9%

3. Type
Consumption 69 45.39%
Performance 83 54.61%

4. Aspiration
N/A 66 43.4%
Boosted 86 56.6%

So from that we can say that the majority of respondents want a 6 cylinder, petrol powered, turbo or supercharged performance engine and yet, the V8 outsells the 6 at FPV.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by ltd

So from that we can say that the majority of respondents want a 6 cylinder, petrol powered, turbo or supercharged performance engine and yet, the V8 outsells the 6 at FPV.

I laughed when I saw how unpopular the N/A V8 is on here, and how many people say they would buy the Supercharged V8.... The actual sales figures are going to be completely different from what people are saying on here.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by ltd

So from that we can say that the majority of respondents want a 6 cylinder, petrol powered, turbo or supercharged performance engine and yet, the V8 outsells the 6 at FPV.

I dont think people shoudl read to much into that; why?

1. Barrat knows that FPV should be known for its V8's, if the T6 started to outsell the 8 would they be happy about it considering HSV's position?

2. Does anyone know the sales figures for the FG series? Why is it that these splits are never (that I have seen) been published? Just totals if that.

3. I strongly believe the 65:35 ratio thats been thrown around is riding on models such as the GT40th and Cobra, once off specials that have inflated the V8 figure. FPV's historical sales split, not current.

At the end of the day they are sales and thats great, but FPV should not be relying on anniversary to sell cars....next we will get a FPV ESP in acknowledgment for the last clevo made....(actually ESP sounds better that GTE if it wasn't for the dynamics control acronym..LOL)

Until someone can actually prove the sales split on the FG series, who cares about B series now, then I find it hard to believe the ratios that are being quoted. Happy to be proven wrong though.

[kircher]

What is the 'coyote' v8? is it the short stroke modular v8 that they call the 5.0 litre cammer in the US? Also, what happened to the BOSS/Hurricane v8 that Ford is developing? it was supposed to be a 'proper' v8 with oversquare bore/stroke, supposedly an entry level 4" bore, with a 4.5" bore centreline, which should crap on any of the modular v8s. They were also supposedly working on direct injected versions, as well as turbocharged, and the architecture can potentially support up to 7.3L. Look it up on wikipedia. Their 6.2L version going into an F-150 will have 317kW and 576Nm.

[chevypower]

Coyote is not the Cammer 5.0 V8. It is all AL-alloy construction, with DOHC and from what i understand will have direct injection.
Boss 6.2L V8 is still happening, though I am lead to believe it is called "Premium" 6.2L V8 now. Hopefully will know more about that engine tomorrow. The 2011 SuperDuty will be fully unveiled tomorrow at the Texas State Fair (Thursday during the day local time). The SuperDuty (F250 & F350) will have the 6.2L V8 and the 6.7L V8 diesel. Look out for power and torque figures tomorrow!
6.2L is a 2 valve, oversquare (like real V8s) with iron block, alloy heads. 2 large valves per cyl, 4.02'' bore, 3.75'' stroke - so it would be close to a 351, but slightly longer stroke.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I dont think people shoudl read to much into that; why?

1. Barrat knows that FPV should be known for its V8's, if the T6 started to outsell the 8 would they be happy about it considering HSV's position?

2. Does anyone know the sales figures for the FG series? Why is it that these splits are never (that I have seen) been published? Just totals if that.

3. I strongly believe the 65:35 ratio thats been thrown around is riding on models such as the GT40th and Cobra, once off specials that have inflated the V8 figure. FPV's historical sales split, not current.

At the end of the day they are sales and thats great, but FPV should not be relying on anniversary to sell cars....next we will get a FPV ESP in acknowledgment for the last clevo made....(actually ESP sounds better that GTE if it wasn't for the dynamics control acronym..LOL)

Until someone can actually prove the sales split on the FG series, who cares about B series now, then I find it hard to believe the ratios that are being quoted. Happy to be proven wrong though.

Like everything else to do with that topic you continue to choose to ignore the facts and hard data, but in-case you're in a receptive mood today i'll share Rods assessment on FG FPV sales cumulative for the model to July:

QUOTE Rod Barrett july 2009: Barrett puts the current production ratio of V8-powered FPV models to turbo sixes at 65:35 roughly. He doesn't believe the model mix has changed significantly since the introduction of the FG Falcon,...." I think we're always going to be a V8 company"... .

you obviously don't believe Rod...
The BF is locked in stone, sales were 66 : 33, or 2 : 1...

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Like everything else to do with that topic you continue to choose to ignore the facts and hard data, but in-case you're in a receptive mood today i'll share Rods assessment on FG FPV sales cumulative for the model to July:

QUOTE Rod Barrett july 2009: Barrett puts the current production ratio of V8-powered FPV models to turbo sixes at 65:35 roughly. He doesn't believe the model mix has changed significantly since the introduction of the FG Falcon,...." I think we're always going to be a V8 company"... .

So where is the sales data? Not that I doubt his integrity, but have you seen the split?

Im not going in circles with you again (and slightly off topic), but do you 100% believe that quote, its sounds like an off the cuff round about figure to me.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Polyal

So where is the sales data?

Im not going in circles with you again, but do you 100% believe that quote, its sounds like an off the cuff round about figure to me.

I give up with you, you refuse to accept it, despite the company explaining it.
I worked for a company supplying parts for both and guess what? 2 : 1 in the supply chain too... so YES ive seen the split.
Enjoy your bliss!!!.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I give up with you, you refuse to accept it, despite the company explaining it.
I worked for a company supplying parts for both and guess what? 2 : 1 in the supply chain too... enjoy your bliss!!!.

Ditto, and yet again you bring up BF (inflated V8 numbers) sales which have no bearing on the current situation other than a historical reference and I did acknowledge it in my first post. Where are the facts (independent of Ford/FPV) that back this up, they never seem to appear.

[greenfoam]

There's far more V8 Falcons around that Turbo 6's you only have to go outside to see that

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Polyal

2. Does anyone know the sales figures for the FG series? Why is it that these splits are never (that I have seen) been published? Just totals if that.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/vbporta...article&id=644



Up to the end of 2008

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

http://www.fordforums.com.au/vbporta...article&id=644



Up to the end of 2008

he wont believe it.. even if Rod Barrett rang him personally and sent him the sales orders car by car he will still refute it...

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I give up with you, you refuse to accept it, despite the company explaining it.
I worked for a company supplying parts for both and guess what? 2 : 1 in the supply chain too... so YES ive seen the split.
Enjoy your bliss!!!.

Norm- Your signature is it made up or is it a direct quote from a publication?

If so can you remember which publication?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by HSE2

Norm- Your signature is it made up or is it a direct quote from a publication?

If so can you remember which publication?

Ian, it was a direct "cut and paste" quote from Rod himself from an E news source, i can't remember which 1, but talked about the future direction of FPV..
Ive sat in a meeting with a V High placed Manager that you've entertained personally and been shown the splits too...

[JPFS1]

I wouldn't read much into Barrett's comments. Although Norm's sig is an accurate quote from Barrett, we should be mindful that Barrett will say what he wants to achieve his short term objectives.

Not long after Barrett made the comments above, he also went on to say that the T6 would increase it's share in the FPV lineup.

[4Vman]

Just so everyone is clear on this i've also been in a position to see the procurement of Model specific components for the range, and Barrett's comments very accurately reflect their ordering pattern for specific parts.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

he wont believe it.. even if Rod Barrett rang him personally and sent him the sales orders car by car he will still refute it...

Settle pettle, sorry I dont think Rod is the Messiah and that everything publish is quoted as the truth.

The split for 2009 will be very interesting, the 2008 figures as I have said before got a helping hand from two special one offs. Obviously they count as sales but I wouldn't be making future decisions based on 2008's record.

Lets see what happens when (if) FPV go a cycle without recycling badges.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Settle pettle, sorry I dont think Rod is the Messiah and that everything publish is quoted as the truth.

The split for 2009 will be very interesting, the 2008 figures as I have said before got a helping hand from two special one offs. Obviously they count as sales but I wouldn't be making future decisions based on 2008's record.

Lets see what happens when (if) FPV go a cycle without recycling badges.

So you finally except the figures and current split assessment, its taken a while!

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

So you finally except the figures and current split assessment, its taken a while!

That depends on what you call current?

Current should be FG sales only. The 2008 sales figures would include the 40thanni and Cobra GT's; im assuming the split Rod is going on about is for the 2008/2009 financial year. Again, I acknowledge they are well and truly count towards it, but my issue is that it has skewed the results as they are not indicative of long term business.

2009/2010, a real example of current sales/trends will show where FPV sit.

[timmo]

With Holden going to a DI V6 why would Ford not bring in the 3.5TT DI EcoBoost engine?? Purely from a global business point of view it would make sense to only have one performance 6 in the stable...as the 2010 Taurus will come equiped with this motor, I can't see Ford Australia holding on to the I6

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Polyal

That depends on what you call current?

Current should be FG sales only.

In case you missed it:

QUOTE Rod Barrett july 2009: Barrett puts the current production ratio of V8-powered FPV models to turbo sixes at 65:35 roughly. He doesn't believe the model mix has changed significantly since the introduction of the FG Falcon,..

[HSE2]

On face value the only engine that has earned its place in 2010/11 is the IN6.

It has evolved with critical acclaim and is truly deserved of its ongoing tenure.

The engine I hope to see most is a blown all alloy 5.0.

[4Vman]

Well done, thanks for clearing this up, i hope it satisfies the doubters.