P'd off at LPG prices - Page 2

Lotte · 08-03-2012, 10:58 PM

Also, what are your sources on knowing what is and isn't flared. Do you know the protocols on flaring? Are you aware that LPG is created in a plant separate to the oil refineries. Etc etc etc.

davenl5l · 08-03-2012, 11:51 PM

lpg is in high demand in europe & the usa for heating homes as its freezing so they are paying through the nose for it & even though we cannot ship them larger quantities we still have to pay higher prices because we are linked to the global economy so the oil companies price gouge us & no government will change this because. (a) no balls & (b) tax revenue goes up

MS33LU · 08-03-2012, 11:57 PM

My sources of what is and isn't flared is my 24 years of refinery experience including controlling the the LPG production and looking after the minimising of flaring at different refineries.
Is LPG created at a different plant to oil refineries? It's not "created" but extracted and at oil refineries as well as plants that handle raw crude oil.
Why would you flare a saleable product?
The simple reason is if you can sell a product in Oz or overseas. If they want to pay more overseas because the winter is extremely cold then you have to equal their price. We're talking wholesale price, not pump price. And no we are not selling it cheap off the nth-west shelf, that's LNG not LPG. A totally different product.
Wait a couple of weeks, european demand will decrease and prices will drop. Petrol will remain about the same

Lotte · 09-03-2012, 12:16 AM

Thankyou!
Mind if I pick your brain via pm on this topic later?

SM1DY · 09-03-2012, 12:22 AM

I almost snapped my neck doing a double take when driving past the local servo today. I though LPG was meant to be the cheap alternative?

krzysiek · 09-03-2012, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS33LU

My sources of what is and isn't flared is my 24 years of refinery experience including controlling the the LPG production and looking after the minimising of flaring at different refineries.
Is LPG created at a different plant to oil refineries? It's not "created" but extracted and at oil refineries as well as plants that handle raw crude oil.
Why would you flare a saleable product?
The simple reason is if you can sell a product in Oz or overseas. If they want to pay more overseas because the winter is extremely cold then you have to equal their price. We're talking wholesale price, not pump price. And no we are not selling it cheap off the nth-west shelf, that's LNG not LPG. A totally different product.
Wait a couple of weeks, european demand will decrease and prices will drop. Petrol will remain about the same

Whats the bet that once we are used to the higher pricing for a couple of weeks, we wont see it come back down..

aussie muscle · 09-03-2012, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torment47

I don't think holden deserve a 22% .... not fair, that's like telling guilia gillard " hey thanks for Fking things up heres another 50k a year keep up the good work ;) "

Don't forget these guys took a pay cut to save the company. this rise restores that pay cut.

gillard on the other hand....

TMC · 09-03-2012, 10:26 AM

LPG is a mix of butane and propane BUT there is no regulation in this country that dictates what mix ratios can be called LPG. One day you can fill up on almost pure butane and another almost pure propane. So what they burn off on a platform can be LPG.

92.9cpl in Perth, mainly Caltex. BOYCOTT CALTEX!!!!!!!!!

Hood-G6 · 09-03-2012, 11:14 AM

I filled the wagon a 89.9cpl this morning.

**Revolver** · 10-03-2012, 01:44 PM

I work in a servo. And I can't answer that question. I am surprised more than anybody.

I just love how some people have come into the thread with "look at the cost of petrol" I'm sorry, but irrelevant. During my 8 years in servos, I have never once seen "petrol" jump 24c - 30c in 3 weeks. Never. Not even a month. Not in 2. The most I have seen is 12c on one morning I confirmed it 3 times with HO that it was right. 2 days later it was back down by 12. LPG has gone up & stayed up.

Yes we shouldn't be whinging since "petrol" is 136 to 155 or there abouts depending on the fuel type, station, area, good or bad day of the week. But think about this. At 65.9c I went through around $100-110 a week in gas. (1000+++ Kms a week). On average about 160litres a week. ($105) now multiply that at .899c a litre is $143. A WEEK. A rise of $40 a week. Around 160 pm.

OUCH THAT ******* HURTS!

Trade to a smaller car? Nope. Car isn't worth that much to trade out to get one. Move closer to everything? Can't afford to.

Just got to grin & bear it. I'm with you last Fairlane.

jonty · 10-03-2012, 02:03 PM

Hi Guy's,
Just a bit of an observation of whats been spoken about LPG prices. I think if we think back when Mr Howard was in Government he brought out an initaitive of a LPG Rebate of some unbelievable amount, I thought myself of sighning up for It but then thought "hang on these dudes dont do anything for the people for free" and it has turned out as usual a "win, win" for the "F_ _ _ _ _ s" again at the expense of average joe.

Cheers

TMC · 10-03-2012, 05:42 PM

I think Joseph Kony is in charge of all the oil companies at present.

Bobman · 10-03-2012, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pottery beige

man you should see the price of petrol.......

Price of petrol has roughly been around the same ~1.30 for the last few years around Melbourne with only short-lived jumps.

LPG going from ~50 cents per litre to 89 cents per litre is like petrol going from $1.30 to $1.90. That would be the only fair comparison.

350125GO · 10-03-2012, 07:01 PM

LPG price sucks at the moment, but don't worry itll come when Europe stops the huge demands caused by the cold chill atm.

JG65TE · 10-03-2012, 10:04 PM

if it goes any higher, im gunna quit my job n start doin dodgys at home for cash n you can all support me while i go on the dole. that will save me 200 a week on juice + my dole money n i only need to rake in a coupla hundred on dodgys and im on my normal wage n i can stay at home all week. im thinkin good tonight.

TMC · 10-03-2012, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG65TE

if it goes any higher, im gunna quit my job n start doin dodgys at home for cash n you can all support me while i go on the dole. that will save me 200 a week on juice + my dole money n i only need to rake in a coupla hundred on dodgys and im on my normal wage n i can stay at home all week. im thinkin good tonight.

Although I don't endorse illegal behaviour I can see where you're coming from. It gets too hard and then you begin to wonder why you bother. I think a lot will think like you.

When you're trying to dig yourself out of a hole, it doesn't help when someone else is throwing the dirt back in. The ramifications for the economy are real. It's not all about mining. If the general community has less disposable income it will have knock on effects through the entire economy. Actual inflation is way higher than the "official" figures.

Donny · 10-03-2012, 11:53 PM

I said it years ago, (back even before the govt got a h@rd on about LPG, and then they added those wickid incentives to get as many people into LPG as possible) that once enough people were suckered in, the price of LPG was gunna skyrocket up, and low n behold look whats happened - It did..

deesun · 11-03-2012, 12:04 AM

Well this week the price of unleaded jumped a min 10c per litre Now on Gold coast at 150cpl when it had dropped to 138cpl from previous 150cpl about 4 weeks ago. My car uses 95 but I use 98 usually so it is currently sitting on 162cpl. Even with gas at 90cpl I am in front but this week I was still able to get it at 69, WOOO HOOOO.

Lotte · 11-03-2012, 02:11 AM

I just had an argument with someone, who firmly believes it's the fuel excise, then complained that petrol went up by 15c a litre overnight.

I verbally bitchslapped them to the ground.

Bushbasher · 11-03-2012, 11:27 AM

In Pt Lincoln we got stung in 2 bites. First bite was from 59.9 3 weeks ago to 73.9 then 2 days ago jumped again to 85.5 with the independents at 89.9. Because we live 60km away 95% of our travel is on the highway and as of now it's line ball cost wise about going back to ULP. Between both cars we do 1100km -1200km a week so this price hike has hit us hard. Next fill I'm going to switch the missus' wagon to petrol and see what mileage she can get and if it's no different cost wise I'll be going back to petrol for the foreseeable future and there goes what little disposable income we had left at the end of the week. There are 2 stations in Tumby Bay with LPG which is only 10ks away and when I went past them yesterday they were both at 99.5c so I dare say, they'll not be selling too much LPG for a while. It's a very sad day when I have to actually save up to but diesel in my 4x4 so I can go fishing. That day was 3 weeks ago and I was on a downer till Friday when we went to town and saw 85.9c. Now I'm positively crying every time I think about it.

Bushbasher

TMC · 11-03-2012, 01:47 PM

Petrol (91 RON) is around 151cpl now in Perth and diesel in some areas is selling for less than 91RON, so everything is screwed up and wrong with the pricing. Diesel attracts a higher tax due to it's BTU content too. So oil companies are yoyoing all the prices around to probably confuse everyone and everything to the point that no one can tell what part is due to the excise etc etc. If it was only 2.5cpl increase on LPG that would be fine.

I remember just before the GST was brought in the oil companies launched the LPG price which had stayed stable for years at 35.9cpl to around 45.9cpl overnight. Back then LPG had no tax on it. The moment you introduce a tax the oil companies ramp the price up uncontrollably.

hondatoford · 11-03-2012, 06:20 PM

The excuse for rip off is as follows:

http://cms.wc.raa.net/images/documen...ument_4041.pdf

burnz · 11-03-2012, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hondatoford

The excuse for rip off is as follows:

http://cms.wc.raa.net/images/documen...ument_4041.pdf

yep what your point?
world gas price on an open market 74cpl
so add tax + margin + gst...and you've got what your paying for.

TMC · 11-03-2012, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hondatoford

The excuse for rip off is as follows:

http://cms.wc.raa.net/images/documen...ument_4041.pdf

According to that, the average price for the raw goods has gone up around 13-16% depending on butane or propane. That doesn't explain the over 50% rise in the pump price, and the ARAMCO price was at similar levels in 2008 yet the pump price was nowhere near as high.

That proves major price gouging on the part of the oil companies. If the price was around 60cpl before all this started, it should be at 68cpl if it was all about the ARAMCO price. But it's near on a dollar in some areas.

TMC · 11-03-2012, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

yep what your point?
world gas price on an open market 74cpl
so add tax + margin + gst...and you've got what your paying for.

Where do you get the 74cpl figure from????????

burnz · 11-03-2012, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMC

Where do you get the 74cpl figure from????????

thats todays price being sold to europe.

krzysiek · 12-03-2012, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

yep what your point?
world gas price on an open market 74cpl
so add tax + margin + gst...and you've got what your paying for.

If only it was that way. 74cpl includes margin as they wouldn't be supplying at a loss. So they're loving it currently. Not to mention Aussie dollar is strong at the moment, making it even more of a rip off?

Who knows.

IceValk85 · 12-03-2012, 12:30 AM

89.9 at BP aitkenvale on the way home tonite.

normally sits around 75-79cpl in townsville, never seen it lower than that since ive been here in 2003.

Ice

**GasoLane** · 12-03-2012, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny

once enough people were suckered in, the price of LPG was gunna skyrocket up, and low n behold look whats happened - It did..

It did'nt. !!

(I like your choice of words..."suckered in"?? )

Fuel here has been stable since Christmas, with only a slight rise in LPG at some servo's in the last week.

I think ULP here is around $1.44cpl and LPG is between 77 and 80cpl

burnz · 12-03-2012, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krzysiek

If only it was that way. 74cpl includes margin as they wouldn't be supplying at a loss. So they're loving it currently. Not to mention Aussie dollar is strong at the moment, making it even more of a rip off?

Who knows.

commodities are allways USD so they are losing in that department.