RB20det powered ED what do people think ?

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

With a 2.5L engine running 16psi, it would be making in excess of 450Nm, and over 400hp. More than enough to push 1500kg. Probably run high 12s without too much trouble.

That's what crossed my mind.... a turbocharged motor with a bit of TLC is probably going to out do a 4.0L in the torque stakes isnt it?

However - going to a jap turbo engine to produce similar results to an N/A falcon... is it worth the fabrication (altho that's the fun part) and compliance (the not-so-fun part) hassles? And the extra 10c/L for 98RON?

Would be great idea for a track car tho!

[XRated]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

With a 2.5L engine running 16psi, it would be making in excess of 450Nm, and over 400hp. More than enough to push 1500kg. Probably run high 12s without too much trouble.

Do it to just to prove these nay sayers wrong.

What sort of torque would the 4.0L with 16psi make?

[4.9 EF Futura]

^ that's cheating The 4.0L doesnt come with a turbo! lol. But i'd guess 600 or 700nm??

[XRated]

^ Only playing fair heheh!

Comparing it to the feasibility of it all, the 4.0L turbo would require a lot less work IMO, and produce better results. I guess it all depends on how much you can score a half-cut, time & money factors of putting it in with custom mounts and then wiring it all up. Sounds like a nightmare to me!

[dansedgli]

Turbo 4 litre is better.

If you can get cheap halfcuts get something a bit bigger than a 2 litre.

[Joes_meat]

There's a guy on the justcommodores forum with an SR20 turbo in a VS.

The VS's are around 200 KG lighter than ED's I think.

He said the motor has plenty of power to get the car around, except his gearing is too high with the standard diff. 100ish kmph in first.

I'm not sure how different the power outputs for the SR20 and RB20 motors. Without a smaller diff though, low-end torque will be a problem.

[sven]

IMO i'd stay with ford but i'd like to see what you could do with any RB.. really it doesn't matter what anybody on here says (even though some are great options) its what you wanna do. you can either be original and go with the RB20DET (or bigger ) or stick with the ford and boost the hell outta the 4L

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Joes_meat

There's a guy on the justcommodores forum with an SR20 turbo in a VS.

The VS's are around 200 KG lighter than ED's I think.

He said the motor has plenty of power to get the car around, except his gearing is too high with the standard diff. 100ish kmph in first.

I'm not sure how different the power outputs for the SR20 and RB20 motors. Without a smaller diff though, low-end torque will be a problem.

Difference between ED and VS is only 100kg or so

[EFFalcon]

half the capacity... no thanks.
i can understand a proven 3litre, or going to a larger engine.
but not something 1/2 the size.

[xr8ute]

An RB20DET...no. But an RB25DET would be worth a go.

Anyone ever compared the 2.5L TT and 4.0L V8 Soarers? The 2.5L turbo inline six is much torquier than the V8. And the Soarer weighs between 1600-1700Kg depending on options!!!

An RB25DET or 1JZ-GTE in an ED is not a bad idea at all if you can get them cheap. Do it!!

[oneredED]

Along the same lines our ex-mechanic owned a VS (or VR cant remember) with a modified RB26DETT, that was running psi in the high twenties... Sleeper outside with stockies n hubcaps all round etc, absolute tyre shredding monster though on the inside...

[BLSTIC]

here's an idea, see if you can find a decent sized screw blower and bolt it up to an RB25 turbo bottom end. That should easily bring the engine up to moving a falcon quickly...

oh, and the reason the 2JZ moves big cars so quickly is the turbo arrangement. They have two (relatively) small turbos in series. At low rpm (eg ~3000rpm, depending on torque loading) the engine shoves air through one turbo, which boosts quickly. At higher rpm a gate to the second turbo opens, allowing it to spool up also, covering the massive torque drop that would normally be associated with a small turbo.

the reason for that spiel is to point out that without huge development and/or a high stall, a hot RB30 (single turbo) is never going to have the low speed grunt the average boosted falcon has.

cya
Ben

[Devious Jet]

Yeah, an boosted Rb20 could make more torque than a 4.0l.......but you will need to rev the ring out of it.....the torque in an Rb20 is produced much higher in the rev range than the RB30. Even with the rb26dett in my R31, it makes nothing below 2500 RPM, compared to the RB30's pull from 1700 rpm....which is really notable daily driving.

An RB20DE NA from an R32 makes less torque then an SR20 NA from an S13. I cant remember how they compare turbo wise tho.

And for something different......I am currently sussing out turboing a 4.2l petrol nissan patrol engine and dropping it into a mini tubbed R31 wagon.....*drools at the thought of stupid amounts of fun*......

[neil_se]

Forget the rb20det, it's not powerful enough to lug a falcon around at any decent place. You'd probably struggle to do a 15 sec 1/4 mile. Even the 4 cyl sr20det has more torque, but i wouldn't recommend it either. The rb25det has good torque and strong gearbox, but are expensive to buy and 9:1 compression limits boost somewhat. The rb26dett is strong but the r32 has a known oil problem and an r33 halfcut would be at least 7k.

I think the 1jz (2.5L TT) would be more ideal especially since it'll cost you about the same to install. Similar torque as the rb25det but much cheaper, great gearbox, and will make big power (350rwkw+) and big boost (20psi+) on stock internals. 2jz is even better but not really worth it for the increase in price. A few cressidas use the 1jz to run 10s (not sure how the falcon and cressida weights would compare).

Some other interesting options would be the vg30det (as opposed to dett) which has semi-forged internals and capable of some big figures, as well as the toyota 1uz which will handle massive power on stock internals.

[eed-250]

an RB20det pushing 300-400hp isnt powerful enough to lug a falcon around?..
come on guys..

I agree with the other blokes, i hate the fact an import engine is going in a Falcon.
And you will not get my respect nor alot of other peopls if you do htis :P

[neil_se]

300rwhp maybe, but i can think of a lot better ways to spend the 7k for the conversion and 7-9k for the mods and end up with less lag, more torque and more street-ability.

[sphell]

who cares if there is another manufacturer's engine in a Ford! Stuff like this creates interest, good on him I say if he wants to have a go.....although, the RB20det will be too small for the Falcon. My sis has one in her R32 and that is boosted up to 15psi with a front mount etc and it's by no means fast. Imagine adding another couple of hundered kilos to that and you'd be no better off than a stock 4.0.

For the hassle of swapping engines, you'd be better off just turboing the 4ltr...it's been proven again and again you can get big power even on a stocker.

PS - Dave, I like your idea of a 4lt into a VL....DO IT!! Don't let Dan get in first on this one LOL :P I remember a while ago Bass_Crazy was thinking of putting a 4ltr six into his Gemini but i think he measured it up and it wouldn't fit so he went with a Holden V6 ;) Would have been different!

[Rollin]

With a 2.5L engine running 16psi,

RB20 = 2.0L, not 2.5.

I used to SMASH RB20DET powered skylines when my car was N/A, even raced one running 11psi, 3" exhaust and front mount, he was doing 14.7s while I was doing 14.5s...why swap an entire engine to get the same or better performance you get from a cam, exhaust and diff swap???

I can't see the logic in swapping in a turbo engine of half the capacity, rather than just turboing the factory one - more power, less hassle, for same or less cash...

People should be putting the 4.0 into other cars, not other engines where a 4.0 goes! I would love to throw a 1UZFE into a falcon though...keep the 4.0 badges but with twin pipes and a V8 exhaust note...would confuse the hell out of people!

A 26DETT in a commo would be sick, SR not so good IMHO, from a lag point of view - to get enough power to do a low 13 you would need to upgrade lots of stuff and end up with an expensive laggy car...an auto would probably be better than a manual though, you wouldnt notice it as much...I can understand the conversion - practically anything is better than that godawful Buick V6...

On the subject of obscure engine conversions - My brother loves KE70 corrollas...I so wish it was legal to throw a 4.0 in one of them!!! Might have to make a fullysick drift Four Litre KE70 one day I think...

[Me_3]

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

So the 4.0 V8 in an EB wagon that a member on here is building up/has built up (?) doesn't cut it?

I'll know in the next day or two if it cuts it or not.... :-)

I'm not the only one putting a 1UZ from a toyota into a falcon...

My Project : http://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=46817

DeanKdx is putting one in an XF Falcon : http://lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2340

And for the really crazy people out there... A TWIN TURBO 1UZ in an EA Falcon...
:

BlownEA : http://lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1856


And as far as I know, there is another one or two falcons getting the 1UZ transplant... :-)

As for using a RB20.. too small for such a big car. It would have to be always working on boost just to move it without being a real big slug...

[BLSTIC]

oh yeah, regarding people putting 4L OHC engines into other cars...

LC/LJ + EF 4.0L...

would perform just like a falcon minus 6-700kg...

we had a boosted 202 in an LJ two-door a while back, it went like a shower of .... with an estimated 200 flywheel hp (red 202, low compresson, towing cam, and a T04 with no wastegate, 19-20psi was ping threshold on avgas). I imagine with a worked falcon driveline (gearbox and diff ratio too) it would get moving a little faster than ours did...

anyone have a spare engine-less LC/LJ lying around?

cya
Ben

[Streeter]

to be honnest with you guys i think that a RB series skyline motor in a falcon is a stupid idea because it has no low down torque and most of them actually havent got enough torque to move the car unless you use an RB26(very pricey), the motor will not suit the car driveabilty wise as its a falcon not a drift car if you want to do a convo on the cheap use a supra motor or a soara motor either of the JZ-GTE engines will do the job i have a TT supra parked in my drive way now it makes 327 rwhp with only a cooler, 3" exhaust, pod filter and a boost controler and i only run it at 5-10lb of boost as any more and the standard clutch slips thus why its parked up now but the best part about a JZ-GTE series engine is the low down pull as mine is making peak torque of 700Nm at only 2900rpm all the way to red line now i also have a mate with a soara and he experiences the same with his 1JZ-GTE and as a stock motor they are actually more tuneable and cheaper to get hold of and get parts for so i think if you decide to go for a convo get the 1JZ-GTE for value and power its one of the better motors out there for torque it will suit your car alot better and as for the actual soara they weigh in at 1780kg so it will push a falcoon no worries.

[dansedgli]

Originally Posted by BLSTIC

oh yeah, regarding people putting 4L OHC engines into other cars...

LC/LJ + EF 4.0L...

would perform just like a falcon minus 6-700kg...

we had a boosted 202 in an LJ two-door a while back, it went like a shower of .... with an estimated 200 flywheel hp (red 202, low compresson, towing cam, and a T04 with no wastegate, 19-20psi was ping threshold on avgas). I imagine with a worked falcon driveline (gearbox and diff ratio too) it would get moving a little faster than ours did...

anyone have a spare engine-less LC/LJ lying around?

cya
Ben

I like your thinking. Stuff putting smaller capacity/lower powered engines in big cars. Put bigger capacity/bigger engines in small cars!! Ive got an LC coupe at home with a R31 engine with lots of good stuff bolted on. Strangely enough Ive got a ford in the driveway with nissan power as well. :

[BLSTIC]

I like your thinking. Stuff putting smaller capacity/lower powered engines in big cars. Put bigger capacity/bigger engines in small cars!! Ive got an LC coupe at home with a R31 engine with lots of good stuff bolted on. Strangely enough Ive got a ford in the driveway with nissan power as well.

schweeeet! ie an RB30 or an FJ20 (or was that the R30?)? Either way any modern design engine in a torana would kick ***...

[Kenaz]

Originally Posted by Streeter

to be honnest with you guys i think that a RB series skyline motor in a falcon is a stupid idea because it has no low down torque and most of them actually havent got enough torque to move the car unless you use an RB26(very pricey), the motor will not suit the car driveabilty wise as its a falcon not a drift car if you want to do a convo on the cheap use a supra motor or a soara motor either of the JZ-GTE engines will do the job i have a TT supra parked in my drive way now it makes 327 rwhp with only a cooler, 3" exhaust, pod filter and a boost controler and i only run it at 5-10lb of boost as any more and the standard clutch slips thus why its parked up now but the best part about a JZ-GTE series engine is the low down pull as mine is making peak torque of 700Nm at only 2900rpm all the way to red line now i also have a mate with a soara and he experiences the same with his 1JZ-GTE and as a stock motor they are actually more tuneable and cheaper to get hold of and get parts for so i think if you decide to go for a convo get the 1JZ-GTE for value and power its one of the better motors out there for torque it will suit your car alot better and as for the actual soara they weigh in at 1780kg so it will push a falcoon no worries.

Man that is one huge sentence.

[Streeter]

Originally Posted by Kenaz

Man that is one huge sentence.

yeah got a little carried away. i always do with turbo 6's :

[Cobalt_bucket]

Done a bit more work on this rb conversion and taken on board what everone has said, we have 5 containers coming from japan and have some 1jz's coming so wait and see when it arrives the dimensions, should just drop in tho, will be checking on wiring over the next week, a 1j will only be about $200 more than an RB20 anyway, so the boss has just told me,


anything than can better a 17.1 1/4 mile would be nice

[Streeter]

Originally Posted by Cobalt_bucket

Done a bit more work on this rb conversion and taken on board what everone has said, we have 5 containers coming from japan and have some 1jz's coming so wait and see when it arrives the dimensions, should just drop in tho, will be checking on wiring over the next week, a 1j will only be about $200 more than an RB20 anyway, so the boss has just told me,


anything than can better a 17.1 1/4 mile would be nice

go for it i am keen to see how it turns out! the 1JZ-GTE i know they are reliable and powerfull and at the end of the day going to make you very happy. as for putting it in the car it should easily fit no worries and all of the wirring loom should be no worries provided you get the original for the transplant motor just time consuming.

as for 1/4 mile times you will have worries of being in the mid to low 13's or even faster depending on the tune level and set up of your motor and car easy 11's if you use a Apex'i power fc plug and play direct swap engine management system a electronic boost controller a decent sized front mount a pod filter a 3" exaust and a set of adjustable timing gears and maybe a set of cams and a decent set of tires. you would almost be making 300rwkw if you want to tune it hard! :

[FRDXR6]

Originally Posted by Cobalt_bucket

Done a bit more work on this rb conversion and taken on board what everone has said, we have 5 containers coming from japan and have some 1jz's coming so wait and see when it arrives the dimensions, should just drop in tho, will be checking on wiring over the next week, a 1j will only be about $200 more than an RB20 anyway, so the boss has just told me,


anything than can better a 17.1 1/4 mile would be nice

Given the current climate of cops with modified cars you might also want to check the legalities and/or risk your willing to take doing the conversion.

Espicially if your in Vic where they are cracking down on every type of car yet making it harder to get it all legal and engineered.

[Rollin]

Originally Posted by Streeter

go for it i am keen to see how it turns out! the 1JZ-GTE i know they are reliable and powerfull and at the end of the day going to make you very happy. as for putting it in the car it should easily fit no worries and all of the wirring loom should be no worries provided you get the original for the transplant motor just time consuming.

as for 1/4 mile times you will have worries of being in the mid to low 13's or even faster depending on the tune level and set up of your motor and car easy 11's if you use a Apex'i power fc plug and play direct swap engine management system a electronic boost controller a decent sized front mount a pod filter a 3" exaust and a set of adjustable timing gears and maybe a set of cams and a decent set of tires. you would almost be making 300rwkw if you want to tune it hard! :

Man, Please use punctuation!!!! It is SO hard to read a post which contains no full stops or commas, and people tend not to even bother trying, they just skip to the next post meaning you have typed all that for nothing.

ED Cobalt - I will be very interested to see what times you pull from a 1J in a falcon - we will use EVLELF as a benchmark - 13.3 seconds and around 6k worth of stuff (?) No doubt you can make a 1J powered falcon go hard, I'm just not sure the bang-for-buck will be worthwhile...

[K_Man]

ED 4.0L - 148kw/348nm
RB25DET - 187kw/294nm (R33 GTS25T)
RB25DET Neo - 206kw/342nm (R34)

I say go for the RB25 mate if the budget stretches, might rev more, but should still shift alright, plus so much aftermarket stuff out there.