Northern Territory, 1 January 2007, No more (//)

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

True 'power' seems to reside with the public servants.

When federal Labour come to power, they too will, again, suffer the same old employees. Shuffle them sure, but . . .

See, an' you lot thought that "Yes Minister" was just a fictional Pommy comedy

[MarkAW]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

See, an' you lot thought that "Yes Minister" was just a fictional Pommy comedy

Not ever - seen it too many times in real life

If was more prevalent during the mid 80's when everbody was expected to bow before the Minister. These days he's just as likely to get the finger cause he's a polly.

Then again we've got the GG coming to some galah openning - think its a new substation - and all the mid level a/hole lickers are running round trying to be important. The executive are on contract and don't give a flying unless directly involved, the engineers and technicals couldn't care less about pollies so it only leaves the managers and senior admins who want or need to be seen and get their rocks off at the thought of meeting the GG or being mentioned in dispatches.

[Orbit]

well....who wants to start the Australian road users party and run for the next election...

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by MarkAW

KL are you refering to the role of the RTA in NSW? Over the past 10 years this dept. seems to have gone from being a paper shuffler of regos and the like to a quasi enforcement agency (which I truely dislike). Another one is WorkCover who have changed the laws like wouldn'y believe.

Whilst virtually every other form of Gov. Trading Enterprize (GTE) reliquished the role of "Authority" (i work for a GTE for energy) the RTA just seemed to get worse - resulting in jack booted storm troopers called inspectors!

As an ex plant mech where I also used to hold an RTA vehicle inspection qualification, I do see a large number of vehicle on the road which shouldn't be there, but I do believe that the only true enforcement agency should be the Police. I'm not sure that I would (as a car driver) pull over for some jackass with purple flashing light.

RTA is just one of the agencies I refer in that assertion, and it is NSW's biggest agency, but really compared to the many other administrative agencies its not as bad as some, although to folk such as yourself they certainly seem so being at the coal face and all.

Big government maybe, sure IF this includes its administrative agencies. It'd be a bastard of a job for any government to clean up NSW and strealine its services for genuine 'people oriented services', it'd *almost* be impossible.

My convcern with 'agencies' applies to both those at Commonwealth level (hence PM's remarks) and at state. In 1999 I attended a NSW parliamentary regulation review committee meeting, at that time the ALP chair had to 'remind' attending public servants that it was indeed 'elected parliament' that only made 'enforceable law', not they via their agency 'policies and agenda'.

How's that for a generalisation? :-)

I am not delighted with increasingly 'enforcement-oriented' local government. I can recall a time not so long ago when this was the friendly face of government, building/development stuff notwithstanding. I'd love a Constitutional battle over this level one day. Maybe in 25 years time.

Orbit wrote: well....who wants to start the Australian road users party and run for the next election...

Look, in the fair dinkum side of things, single-issue 'parties' will simply not get elected to an extent to be effective. Now, some NT people, cranky at Clare Martin's, in my view - 'hysterical' removal of speed derestricton from NT key highways, have advocated the creation of a 'motorists-like party' to show displeasure at this faulty move.

Such a party will fail, and its creation could be deliberate in order to prevent the CLP gaining power from tens of thousands of angry NT road-users who would otherwise vote for that, and not the CLP who have rightly stated their intention to re-instate (//) to NT's key highways.

* I am not a member of any party btw, I nag all sides of politics for $ for roads and vehicle improvements.

A party that seeks state or commonwealth election *must* have full and comprehensive all encompassing plans and agenda, even 'costings' if it is to succeed.

Single issue parties are also created by one political parties 'activists' to impact the vote outcome of the other major political opposition party, using preferences and individual targetting of electoral booths to achieve that, with the aim of getting their original party membership over the line, or at worse preventing the key opposition party from gaining the seat it might otherwise have achieved.

An individual of note can be elected, particularly if the person is well known and respected in his or her community, but that is a rare person indeed, and I am stating the bleeding obvious.

When an electorate simply cannot afford a missed opportunity, it should stick with one of the majors when in doubt. NT in my view is in at one of those points. "Divide" - and conquer as they say.

Another NT news item on (//) :
http://ntnews.news.com.au/common/sto...E13569,00.html

[Silver Ghia]

We'll probably now see the road toll in the NT to go up. I thought the toll was very low there. Now drivers have a good chance of falling asleep behind the wheel, also congestion which causes accidents, if drivers abide by this stupid legislation.

Politicians seem to have no idea on what actually causes accidents.

[MarkAW]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

We'll probably now see the road toll in the NT to go up. I thought the toll was very low there. Now drivers have a good chance of falling asleep behind the wheel, also congestion which causes accidents, if drivers abide by this stupid legislation.

Silver Ghia
Can I ask why you think that accidents from fatigue may rise. I may be looking at it from a differing viewpoint but IMO if a driver is relying on the adrenolin (sp) rush of high speed driving to keep him awake then he really should not be driving but taking a break.

[Keepleft]

What will lower the NT toll will the programs increased enforcement action targetted at drink driving.

Removing (//) from NT's key highways will not be the reason for the reduction, but arguably will lead to increased bunching-up commuting events leading sometimes to collisions, again offset by the other measures taken by NT GovCo.

NT has had one fatigue related crash in the last day or so, a 4WD rolled, near potential for a fatal. Not speed related according to police, but fatigue.

It is correctly argued in my view that not being able to cover distance as 'fast and safe', one has to then be on the open road longer, leading to increased exposure over the long term trend to the fatigue relationship.

This accepts too that the fatigue ratio for high speed driving and low speed limited driving works out at about the same. Sometimes only a few minutes makes the diference between a microsleep and not.

[Silver Ghia]

I'm thinking of the long distances that one travels in the NT with the endless constant scenery, and with speed limits, drivers would tend to be more on the cruise control at the speed limit, mind at ease thinking about other things.

I also put losing concentration in the same category as falling asleep.

I would have thought with no speed restrictions, one would constantly think about the road and conditions that prevail at each instant, also not be on the cruise control at the higher speeds due to the changing conditions. That way the mind is constantly working and therefore there would be less chance of running off the road due to inattention or falling asleep.

Or am I wrong? There are lots of different types of drivers out there.

[Panda]

Originally Posted by MarkAW

Silver Ghia
Can I ask why you think that accidents from fatigue may rise. I may be looking at it from a differing viewpoint but IMO if a driver is relying on the adrenolin (sp) rush of high speed driving to keep him awake then he really should not be driving but taking a break.

I did exactly that, after crossing from the Northern Territory doing 140-180 into QLD I had to slow back down to 100km/h with the cruise control on. I almost fell asleep several times between the border and Mount Isa (speed kills, yeah right).

It is not adrenalin that kept me awake in the NT, it was the fact that I actually had to use my brain while driving. I was concentrating on the road, the traffic, the wildlife, the weather etc etc instead of letting the cruise control do the thinking.

Panda

[Panda]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

I would have thought with no speed restrictions, one would constantly think about the road and conditions that prevail at each instant, also not be on the cruise control at the higher speeds due to the changing conditions. That way the mind is constantly working and therefore there would be less chance of running off the road due to inattention or falling asleep

Yep, there was no need to use cruise control in the NT, just drive to the prevailing conditions, not an arbitary speed limit.

Panda

[MarkAW]

Maybe its the cruise button which is the evil here??

Mind you I'd point a shotty at anyone who'd think they'd remove my CC. It's saved me from many a speeding ticket.

Ah Ha
A revelation - this is a circular arguement.

No speed limits = No speeding tickets = No cruise control (No revenue for Government)

Speed limits = fear of speeding ticket = cruise control = fatigue = death (costs billions in insurance and loss of life - more than would be recouped from speeding fines.)

Get rid of cruise control and speed limits!!!!

[Panda]

Originally Posted by MarkAW

Get rid of cruise control and speed limits!!!!

Now you're talking

[MO]

Simple answer..get rid of Clare Martin and her puppet labour gov't=get rid of speed limits.

From abc talk show host to Chief Minister...what a bloody joke!!!!!!

[flappist]

Originally Posted by MO

Simple answer..get rid of Clare Martin and her puppet labour gov't=get rid of speed limits.

From abc talk show host to Chief Minister...what a bloody joke!!!!!!

This from a true believer? Well there is hope for Australia.

How's the fishing?

[Focussed]

claire & her party need to have a look at the real issues up here, drink driving, not wearing belts, unregisted vehicles & unlicensed drivers.
think of the impact on the economy up here too. there are that many manufacturers who used to do road testing up here. from our aussie contingent to the europeans.
i mean there was even talk sometime last year & resurrecting the NT Canon Ball Run. Not anymore!

[Jayden]

im going to build my own roads :P

[MO]

Originally Posted by flappist

This from a true believer? Well there is hope for Australia.

How's the fishing?

Hope burns eternal..the fishings been good getting lots of bites but I better stop before I get banned.

[kyro_02]

people are already screwing with the signs ~ + there is another pic I won't post that says "<naughty-wordlol> U CLARKE" on the roads.

[Tiapan]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

I'm thinking of the long distances that one travels in the NT with the endless constant scenery, and with speed limits, drivers would tend to be more on the cruise control at the speed limit, mind at ease thinking about other things.

I also put losing concentration in the same category as falling asleep.

I would have thought with no speed restrictions, one would constantly think about the road and conditions that prevail at each instant, also not be on the cruise control at the higher speeds due to the changing conditions. That way the mind is constantly working and therefore there would be less chance of running off the road due to inattention or falling asleep.

Or am I wrong? There are lots of different types of drivers out there.

exactly right, i work and live in the country (whilst away on roster) my work is 45km away, one big straight road connects us, i will sit on 170-200+kmph twice per day..everyday, its a 5 speed and dosnt use much fuel (melts tires pretty quickly)
this keeps me awake for sure, if you relise what adreniline did to your body you would support it e.g. slows down certian bodily functions/organs to send more energy to the brain, senses ect.

p.s. i realise the speeds are dangerous and anythnig coul happen blah blah blah, to increase my chances of survival i have performance brakes, stiffer suspension and regulary get new tires and now i have alot of experiance driving (AND STOPPING!) at these speeds. also i know what happens to large ducks when they get in the way....

[Tiapan]

well it used to be large

[Keepleft]

Quote from a poster at the NT anti-speed limit site.

"For anybody interested, the NT Motorcycle Centre on the Stuart Hwy at Pinelands has anti-Labor/Pro Open Speed Limit stickers that you can place on your bumper.

They actually read,"Remember Open Speed Limits - Forget Labor".

Last time I was there they had plenty, so maybe you should call them on 8939 0390 before you make the trip".

[Keepleft]

An update to the above post, opposition to NT's new speed limits continues for a long term fight:-

http://keepntlimitfree.org/

[new2ford]

Keepleft there is some interesting writeup about speed limits in the latest Wheels mag.

[TE50 027]

I lived in the NT for a few years and regularly made the Darwin-Adelaide run. To overtake roadtrains (which have 4 trailers and are up to 60m long) I would wait for one of the 2km deadstraight strtches of road change lanes abot 300m before the truck and make sure I ws doing 170-180kmh. The truckies would let you know that they know you're there and that it's clear by flashing their indicators for you.

Once saw a Barina overtake one of them. She was doing about 125-130kmh, truck about 100kmh. I decided to hang back once I saw how much the last trailor was starting to sway over the road due to the Barina upsetting airflow down the side of the truck. All up took her almost 15 seconds to overtake. IMO, it's a damn sight safer getting past the trucks quicker.


Was thinking of moving back to NT but if this slower speed limit sticks I may reconsider. It's a restriction on the laid back lifestyle up there.

[HOON69]

making trips longer by reducing the speed limit will increase travel time making fatigue a problem

they stop every 2 hours,like anyones gunna stop in the middle of the bush at night ;) or even during the day in 30-40c heat

they "think" they are saving lives etc but i reckon it places more ppl at risk,trucks in NT do a average of 130 anyways yet the law is 90-100kmh
i reckon the death toll will rise not fall....

[Wally]

Ever noticed how other drivers get cranky with you if you travel under the posted speed limit (even if you are using the lefthand lane on a freeway)? I would suspect if someone is travelling at 125kph in a signed 130 limit there will be some tailgating and road rage occuring, because the 5 kph overtaking speed would take from Katherine to Adelaide to achieve LOL.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Wally

Ever noticed how other drivers get cranky with you if you travel under the posted speed limit (even if you are using the lefthand lane on a freeway)? I would suspect if someone is travelling at 125kph in a signed 130 limit there will be some tailgating and road rage occuring, because the 5 kph overtaking speed would take from Katherine to Adelaide to achieve LOL.

I agree but for interest I did the numbers:

If you were 2 lengths behind when you overtook and pulled in 2 lengths in front, it would take you about 14 seconds to pass the car and you would have travelled about 500m to do it

edit - yeah, yeah, 2 lengths isn't enough room but for the sake of simple maths blah blah.

[Wally]

I didn't do the numbers, but if the back of the car is 18 metres to the back of the car in front and you wanted to get 12 metres in front after overtaking, that would be about 36 metres tavelled, which is about 26 seconds and nearly a kilometre.

[Scott]

lol, good pickup! I didn't factor the length of the overtaking car, well done.

[Wally]

Enough time to sink a can of VB, while waiting for the oncoming roadtrain to clean you up. LOL.