FG2 FPV's - Page 3

AMGC63 · 03-10-2011, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elks

I personally think the F6 now lacks some relevance.

Back in the boss 5.4 days there was a choice of big cube V8 noise etc vs I6T fast.

Now with S/C 5.0, you get both in the one package. Hence the drop in sales of the F6. It's still a great package but I wouldn't buy one over a 5.0.

Exactly my line of thinking..
Id like to see FPV rationalise thier range a bit and concentrate their R+D efforts on 1 engine range.
Combine the GS and F6 into 1 model to give a budget priced S/C V8 model but with the F6's FPV kit and extras and price it where the F6 currently sits, maybe call it F8?
Then allow Ford to use the current GS as the XR8 as a 302kw model.

SteveJH · 03-10-2011, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elks

I personally think the F6 now lacks some relevance.

Back in the boss 5.4 days there was a choice of big cube V8 noise etc vs I6T fast.

Now with S/C 5.0, you get both in the one package. Hence the drop in sales of the F6. It's still a great package but I wouldn't buy one over a 5.0.

Depends what your requirements are. The F6 has almost the same power/perfromance, but uses considerably less fuel.

**Polyal** · 03-10-2011, 09:33 PM

While I dont want to think that the F6 doesnt belong it does seem like an odd situation that FPV finds itself in.

There is no doubt that the F6 has saved FPV while the 5.4 was around. Yes the 5.4 still sold well but they could polish a **** and the GT would still sell. What I truely believe is that the F6 opens doors for Ford/FPV to people who dont want a bar of the GT or dont really care much for its historu or culture.

Remember we will be having people buying these cars who witnessed and idolized the R32 GTR, and the rise of imports as a young persons car was a spin off of this. (although recent P plater rules have killed that a bit).

Now when these people mature, have kids etc what do you think they will be looking at for a large sedan?

I would not be surprised if the F6 did not go past the I6T, the XR6T can still exist via the 3.5 Ecoboost within Ford, but translating that to a FPV car doesnt seem to make much sense. FPV rightly so made the most of the I6T being around at the time.

For me, I dont want the F6 to go and I think the I6T deserves to go out with a bang, a big bang, but I would be happy if Ford took over the ownership of the hipo 6's (and have the NA XR8) and FPV stuck to S/C 8's.

AMGC63 · 03-10-2011, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveJH

Depends what your requirements are. The F6 has almost the same power/perfromance, but uses considerably less fuel.

Really???? are you sure about that????? All indications ive seen is they both use about the same amount of fuel when driven in a similar way...

1TUFFUTE · 03-10-2011, 09:39 PM

seems to me like there are alot of know it alls and everyone doesnt actually know anything at all. Its impossible to have differing opinions that have been said are coming from a great source. lets wait for an official ford release to help prevent us coming back here and making you eat your words. One thing i always have known...dont back it till your 110% sure its fact...

**Polyal** · 03-10-2011, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

seems to me like there are alot of know it alls and everyone doesnt actually know anything at all. Its impossible to have differing opinions that have been said are coming from a great source. lets wait for an official ford release to help prevent us coming back here and making you eat your words. One thing i always have known...dont back it till your 110% sure its fact...

So how is that pointy fence?

Is it not half the fun attempting to make educated guesses? Would be a very quiet place if we waited until FPV did a press release.

Talking about things usually brings out tidbits.

Road Games · 03-10-2011, 09:48 PM

The XR8 will be back next year ...

Just Sayin'

cartaa100 · 03-10-2011, 09:51 PM

id love to see wider tyres, upgraded suspension and just a tune out of both engines for power upgrades.

excopau · 03-10-2011, 10:04 PM

i love the f6 over an supercharger 8, if u blow engine, easier to fix and cheaper. Australians have always talked 8's and bought 6's. Some forget what saved FPV, F6 F6 now the 8 is good everyone forgets.

XRDeeze · 03-10-2011, 10:21 PM

well i think theyll get rid of the XR8 too big too heavy . mo

Falc'man · 03-10-2011, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

So how is that pointy fence?

New nickname: splinter.

Rodge · 04-10-2011, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMGC63

Really???? are you sure about that????? All indications ive seen is they both use about the same amount of fuel when driven in a similar way...

FG F6 Euro 3 version. ADR combined 12.1 litres per 100 km's Real world average off the car's trip computer averaged over 1,000's of km's 13.3 litres per 100 km's. SC GT-P ADR combined 13.7 litres per 100 km's. Real world average over 5,000 km's 15.0 litres per 100 km's. Both cars I've owned for 1,000's of km's and driven in exactly the same manner over exactly the same terrain. SC GT-P uses 12.8% more fuel in my experience.

Having said that the newer Euro 4 compliant F6's which are obviously designed to have cleaner emmissions have a combined ADR of 12.6 litres per 100 km's 4% thirstier than the Euro 3 version, go figure ?? so the current Euro 4 difference would appear to be around 9%. Doesn't sound like a lot but in a world where consumers are really starting to look at fuel consumption...its well known that turbocharging is more efficient than supercharging. The motto that I knew going into the change was "if you want to hear the music, you have to pay the band"

TS50 · 04-10-2011, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodge

Having said that the newer Euro 4 compliant F6's which are obviously designed to have cleaner emmissions have a combined ADR of 12.6 litres per 100 km's 4% thirstier than the Euro 3 version, go figure ?? so the current Euro 4 difference would appear to be around 9%. Doesn't sound like a lot but in a world where consumers are really starting to look at fuel consumption...its well known that turbocharging is more efficient than supercharging. The motto that I knew going into the change was "if you want to hear the music, you have to pay the band"

I know what you are saying, BUT....
I have a EURO3 Manual F6 Ute, a friend has a EURO4 Auto F6 Ute
He gets better fuel economy than I do
Could be driving style?
Could be Auto?
Could be Euro 4?

Rodge · 04-10-2011, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TS50

I know what you are saying, BUT....
I have a EURO3 Manual F6 Ute, a friend has a EURO4 Auto F6 Ute
He gets better fuel economy than I do
Could be driving style?
Could be Auto?
Could be Euro 4?

Any / All of the above plus tyre pressure's, state of tune, type of fuel, how clean your air cleaner is and the different terrain in which you live BUT Most importantly the mix of urban and extra urban running and what constitutes urban and extra urban to you and your mate may be two completly different things. My experience OTOH is the same terrain, driver, tyre pressures, type of driving and so on.

Gobes32 · 04-10-2011, 09:30 AM

What if FPV released FG2 and it came out with bigger brakes, wider tyres and a 5% reduction in weight? Would that be preferable over an extra 10kw?

cartaa100 · 04-10-2011, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

What if FPV released FG2 and it came out with bigger brakes, wider tyres and a 5% reduction in weight? Would that be preferable over an extra 10kw?

my oppinion yes, cause of how easy owners can tune the new fpvs.

i dont think itd happen though i dont know where they could shed 5% id say the new fpv will have wider tyres, judging from there ideas from the fpv black edition concept.

prydey · 04-10-2011, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TS50

I know what you are saying, BUT....
I have a EURO3 Manual F6 Ute, a friend has a EURO4 Auto F6 Ute
He gets better fuel economy than I do
Could be driving style?
Could be Auto?
Could be Euro 4?

could simply be the gearbox. manuals are no longer more economical. the zf box would make a fair difference.

dimka100 · 04-10-2011, 10:34 AM

In the past the F6 (typhoon) has helped FPV to get through some thought times when their V8 offering was not that attractive in the market place. Now however with the new SC V8s models enjoying strong sales the F6 is looking like the odd man out …

Realistically for the F6 to come back as a strong sales contender it needs a fair amount of R&D invested into it which FPV is in no way going to bother with … lets be real, FPV is run by people who love their V8s, people who think there is no substitute for cubes, and that straight-line is all that matters … for the F6 to be successful in the market place this mentality needs to go, as people who are into real performance cars have a different performance criteria to the usual V8s crowd.

Personally I think that FPV would be better off to just stick to performance V8s and let Ford run with the performance 6s & 4s models … FPV could then include a cheaper non SC V8 model in their line up as a GS replacement (dropping the supercharger but adding a few extra useful FPV goddies instead) as well as offering 2 or 3 supercharged tunes as higher models (GT, GTS, whatever) … this would create a good and obvious brand differentiation that FPV is clearly lacking say compared to HSV.

prydey · 04-10-2011, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimka100

In the past the F6 (typhoon) has helped FPV to get through some thought times when their V8 offering was not that attractive in the market place. Now however with the new SC V8s models enjoying strong sales the F6 is looking like the odd man out …

F6 has never outsold GT. (if it has it would've been brief) GT has generally held a 2:1 sales advantage since F6 started. it is a potent machine, but it doesn't wear the right badge and is 2cyl short for many of FPV's customers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimka100

… lets be real, FPV is run by people who love their V8s, people who think there is no substitute for cubes, and that straight-line is all that matters …

i think this is way off the mark. the early fpv's were critisized for being too slow in a straight line, however as a package, they were a very good car. fpv then succumbed to the power war and dropped an epic engine into the existing chassis without doing anything major to it, and now the car has too much power for the chassis, so the balance has been lost.

having said that, those whinging that early fpv's were too slow weren't the customers. mainly the wannabee's that were losing the arguments in the schoolyard and pub.

AMGC63 · 04-10-2011, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimka100

In the past the F6 (typhoon) has helped FPV to get through some thought times when their V8 offering was not that attractive in the market place. Now however with the new SC V8s models enjoying strong sales the F6 is looking like the odd man out …

Realistically for the F6 to come back as a strong sales contender it needs a fair amount of R&D invested into it which FPV is in no way going to bother with … lets be real, FPV is run by people who love their V8s, people who think there is no substitute for cubes, and that straight-line is all that matters … for the F6 to be successful in the market place this mentality needs to go, as people who are into real performance cars have a different performance criteria to the usual V8s crowd.

Personally I think that FPV would be better off to just stick to performance V8s and let Ford run with the performance 6s & 4s models … FPV could then include a cheaper non SC V8 model in their line up as a GS replacement (dropping the supercharger but adding a few extra useful FPV goddies instead) as well as offering 2 or 3 supercharged tunes as higher models (GT, GTS, whatever) … this would create a good and obvious brand differentiation that FPV is clearly lacking say compared to HSV.

Yes the F6 sales helped a bit no doubt but even when the GT/GT-P was selling at its weakest (2006) it still outsold the F6 (44% to 41%).
The current S/C 5.0 V8 engine is roughly the same weight at the F6 engine, produces more power and torque and has newer better technology and can adopt future technology that the I6T cant...
So tell me why you think that the new S/C 5.0 V8 isnt the best way forward for FPV?? Its the most sophisticated high tech high performance engine in the current range, and is comfortably upgradable well into the future unlike any other engine we have.

flappist · 04-10-2011, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

F6 has never outsold GT. (if it has it would've been brief) GT has generally held a 2:1 sales advantage since F6 started. it is a potent machine, but it doesn't wear the right badge and is 2cyl short for many of FPV's customers.

i think this is way off the mark. the early fpv's were critisized for being too slow in a straight line, however as a package, they were a very good car. fpv then succumbed to the power war and dropped an epic engine into the existing chassis without doing anything major to it, and now the car has too much power for the chassis, so the balance has been lost.

having said that, those whinging that early fpv's were too slow weren't the customers. mainly the wannabee's that were losing the arguments in the schoolyard and pub.

Might want to check your figures, BF F6 outsold BF GT (2006)
http://www.fordforums.com.au/vbporta...ategory&cid=32

The 2:1 sales were only in the later era circa 2008.

As far as the "customers" who went from V8 (GT-P) to T6 (F6) because of performance, well I was one of them and I know several others personally.

It is interesting to note that it appears the "whinging wannabes" you speak of appear not to be confined to pubs that sell beer........

**Polyal** · 04-10-2011, 11:13 AM

When you sit back and look at what the F6 has "cost" FPV I am sure they are very happy with the return.

The F6's progress will depend on how Ford tackle the V6 issue and whether or not the further investment is worth the numbers sold. I would hazard a guess and say not but who knows.

Would the F6 exist if Ford didnt have the XR6T, id say no. Alot of factors just fell into place and it just so happened to be perfect timing for FPV.

Have people not noticed the clear lack of marketing for the car? Does Allan Moffatt not like the F6? Its an inconvenient truth that it keep FPV relevant performance wise until Miami come around.

I hope the last of the F6's gets some serious R Spec treatment, it deserves it.

AMGC63 · 04-10-2011, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

When you sit back and look at what the F6 has "cost" FPV I am sure they are very happy with the return.

The F6's progress will depend on how Ford tackle the V6 issue and whether or not the further investment is worth the numbers sold. I would hazard a guess and say not but who knows.

Would the F6 exist if Ford didnt have the XR6T, id say no. Alot of factors just fell into place and it just so happened to be perfect timing for FPV.

Have people not noticed the clear lack of marketing for the car? Does Allan Moffatt not like the F6? Its an inconvenient truth that it keep FPV relevant performance wise until Miami come around.

I hope the last of the F6's gets some serious R Spec treatment, it deserves it.

FPV know for every dollar they spend marketing the F6 they'd get 4 times the result marketing the GT.. They also need to get a return on the 40 mil... Makes sense to me to push the product most likely to get you the best return on your investment.

**Polyal** · 04-10-2011, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMGC63

FPV know for every dollar they spend marketing the F6 they'd get 4 times the result marketing the GT.. They also need to get a return on the 40 mil... Makes sense to me to push the product most likely to get you the best return on your investment.

In turn putting all your eggs in the one basket is not overly great either, and is not a model for growing a business.

B series GT is proof you do not need great product to sell a GT (thats an objective opinion, id happily own one).

Everyone talks about this 40M...they will be spreading that out for another 4 years so lets not get to precious about that, because I cant see another engine (V8) coming to FPV before 2016.

edit: I also hope Harry Kewells appointment is an attempt to attract younger people to the brand through the F6, thats where it should be IMO.

Then AM can talk about the grand old days with the GT crowd, all bases covered.

SVT8 · 04-10-2011, 11:31 AM

Im hoping the fg II gt's come out with a bulkier bodykit or at least some sort of tweak on the rear bumper if anything. Besides the stripes and badges, the GT is not set apart enough from the rest of the falcon range.

This is the only thing stoping me from buying a gt at the momement, so im waiting to see what they will do so i can base my decision on a series 1 or 2.

SteveJH · 04-10-2011, 11:31 AM

Putting all your eggs in the V8 basket particularly seems like a risk to me in this day and age.

flappist · 04-10-2011, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMGC63

FPV know for every dollar they spend marketing the F6 they'd get 4 times the result marketing the GT.. They also need to get a return on the 40 mil... Makes sense to me to push the product most likely to get you the best return on your investment.

This is probably very close to the mark.

I suspect the majority of FPV customers choose a car in the following priority.
1) Badge and bodykit
2) Falcon
3) Performance

The majority of FPVs bought new never see a track other than the "FPV day", hardly ever exceed the speed limit by more than 20km/h (or driven on open zones when they existed) and are never modified in any way shape or form.

They are bought for what they are, a reasonably quick inexpensive family car with a bit of style and heritage.
Historically the most popular options are stripes and pretty wheels rather than upgraded brakes etc.
They are an emotional purchase (which is easily demonstrated by the level of angst in many of the debates) and as such are a "possession" rather than just a "transport medium".

I am quite sure FPV recognise this and are focussing the products accordingly.

AMGC63 · 04-10-2011, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

In turn putting all your eggs in the one basket is not overly great either, and is not a model for growing a business.

B series GT is proof you do not need great product to sell a GT (thats an objective opinion, id happily own one).

Everyone talks about this 40M...they will be spreading that out for another 4 years so lets not get to precious about that, because I cant see another engine (V8) coming to FPV before 2016.

edit: I also hope Harry Kewells appointment is an attempt to attract younger people to the brand through the F6, thats where it should be IMO.

Then AM can talk about the grand old days with the GT crowd, all bases covered.

Why cant FPV attract younger buyers to the GT range? The Miami engine is much newer technology and far more "high tech" than the F6 engine....

As you point out it makes sense to market the "newest tech" to attract the "younger crowd" too...

Gobes32 · 04-10-2011, 11:46 AM

What is more important to the potential FPV customer? Keep power the same but give the bodykit a makeover, or do we want it to be faster?

**Polyal** · 04-10-2011, 11:48 AM

Your assuming younger people care about the GT. The XR6T/F6 has had quite an influence on "younger" people, to discount this is incorrect (IMO).

The GT is currently being brought by people who either want a stonking V8, or simply enjoy the attachment they have with the name and their youth.

Perhaps we are all assuming to much, the OP asked about a release date but it seems we are talking about FPV's product mix (Im to blame). Happy to talk about the F6's relevance in another thread.