I see Chinese made MGs everywhere!

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Here's a MG I'd consider (the Rover moreso)

https://www.classicandsportscar.com/...tzt-t-rover-75

There's nothing of the former scale really to defend any more in terms of Australian industry in the auto sector, so all importers on an equal footing. Have at it. Maybe question if the country the importer is from is blocking trade with Australia for any items/disregarding signed FTAs - breaking rules etc etc.

I've noticed Aussies will go the cheapest option, almost every time. You know that smirk when you get that dead-set rippa bargain? Political stances evaporate compared to the savings that you just made on that deal where you practically stole it from the other bloke. Low ball the offer and it's so sweet. Look at that goose who just paid full price. Brother in law got a cabin cruiser for an absolute steal, yeah, it foundered at its mooring, but it was the deal of a lifetime... etc etc

I deal with that all the time at work, everyone wants something for nothing, try working in manufacturing that makes things in Melbourne

Regardless of how low volume or how quick you can turn it around, can get it on ebay for less.

Well buy it from ebay then?

My favorite one was someone who come to us who bought a couple thousand widgets from China, and they made it wrong, but then wouldn't fix it and they had to order a few thousand of the right ones. They then come to me expecting Australian service at Chinese prices - GAGF.

[Citroënbender]

There was a story about P76 taillights, maybe before your time. Thai company, desperate to impress, made a production run to order exactly per the sample provided.

A perfect product was the result, every moulding/tooling mark honoured.

Right down to the sun-faded colouring.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

There was a story about P76 taillights, maybe before your time. Thai company, desperate to impress, made a production run to order exactly per the sample provided.

A perfect product was the result, every moulding/tooling mark honoured.

Right down to the sun-faded colouring.

I like the each way bet you did there, keep people guessing about me being a salty boomer

Where Australia can compete is on quality, low volumes and value adding - product support when unforeseen circumstances happen or design help.

[csv8]

MG EV Sportscar is coming.


"MG will launch its all-electric sports coupe in late 2021, according to a new report from the December 9, 2020 issue of Autocar magazine.

What's more, the report specifically states the model will be offered in right-hand-drive markets including Australia.

The MG brand – which was synonymous with small and affordable sports cars throughout much of the 20th century – is yet to build a performance-oriented product under current Chinese SAIC Motor ownership.

The upcoming model will reportedly be heavily based on the 2017 E-Motion concept (shown at the bottom of this story), and is expected to feature a dual-motor all-wheel drive powertrain.

However, the initial concept's butterfly doors are expected to be dropped for mass production, due to their complexity and cost.

MORE: 2021 MG E-Motion: electric coupe rendered from patent filings

MG is reportedly targeting a zero to 100km/h time of below four seconds and a range of 482km.

If accurate, this would place the British-badged coupe in competition with the performance figures claimed by the Porsche Taycan 4S and Tesla Model 3 Performance.

No pricing details for Australia have not been reported, however it's likely the model will tend closer to its indirect rivals – with the Model 3 priced from $103,994 plus on-road costs – than MG's sole electric vehicle as of writing, the $43,900 drive-away ZS EV.

"The Autocar report also suggests the brand is currently developing an entry-level, compact electric hatchback to sit alongside (and eventually succeed) the current, petrol-powered MG 3 city car.

Slated for a late 2021 launch, the model will reportedly offer a range of around 240 kilometres, with prices in the UK to start around the £20,000 (AU$35,600) mark." https://www.caradvice.com.au/910758/...tralia-report/

[Yellow_Festiva]

When you think about it, the MGs we have are either overly expensive or the closest sized models by the Koreans and Japanese are grossly under priced.

I threw in Thailand as we often say that what we get from there is grossly overpriced and the figures seem to back that thinking.

While the old adage of "the Chinese work for a bowl of rice a day" is far from the truth these days their average income and standard of living is still way, way below their Asian competition.

Gross domestic product (at purchasing power parity) per capita. The GDP (PPP) per capita is often considered one of the indicators of a country's standard of living.

China: $17,206
Korea: $44,292
Japan: $41,637
Thailand: $18,073
Australia: $50,845

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...PP)_per_capita

Their standard of living costs are less than half that of Japan and Korea yet their cars are only say 15-20% lower.

We can assume that the Japanese and Korean plants have a greater deal of automation (costing more up front) and that China will take advantage of their much lower cost of labour to save on the robotics and do more things by hand.

If you look at average income per country:

China: Doesn't even make the top 35 list so less than $16k
Korea: $40,856
Japan: $40,573
Thailand: Doesn't even make the top 35 list so less than $16k
Australia: $53,349

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_average_wage

Even at bargain basement prices they are probably making a very tidy profit on each car.

Throw in lax environmental and waste management rules, a workforce that works without complaint 60 hrs a week, and the huge government support and subsidies their manufacturers get its not at all surprising that they can undercut the competition.

They may be 95% as good as the rest, but for a 20% discount people are happy to take the gamble.

In 4-5 years when they start selling their next wave of models they will be 98% as good as their competition due to more investment in automation and and still be 15-20% cheaper than the rest.

If any manufacturer has a hope of competing with China they need to get manufacturing going in India or Philippines.

[oldel]

You make a good point, the profit must be huge.
I wonder if the margins are out the factory gate or whether the AU distributor/SAIC australia (if it exists), make the cash because of "special AU" pricing?

Originally Posted by csv8

"The MG brand – which was synonymous with small and affordable sports cars throughout much of the 20th century – is yet to build a performance-oriented product under current Chinese SAIC Motor ownership.

If accurate, this would place the British-badged coupe in competition with the performance figures claimed by the Porsche Taycan 4S and Tesla Model 3 Performance."

Is it just me or does anyone else hate the way they downplay the Chinese part and play up the name?

Like they always say something along the lines of historical british marque (chinese owned said quietly). Rather than just saying be open and honest about the whole thing and stating it's a Chinese designed and manufactured car (the badge is irrelevant anyway, just a recycled name they bought to help flog the cars and motoring journalism is running with it for some reason -$$$$$)

E: to put it clearer these advertorials have done this since the brand relaunched. Muddy it up to make it sound like Chinese investors bought a British car factory, rather than the reality that a Chinese car factory just bought the rights to a badge.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by oldel

You make a good point, the profit must be huge.
I wonder if the margins are out the factory gate or whether the AU distributor/SAIC australia (if it exists), make the cash because of "special AU" pricing?



Is it just me or does anyone else hate the way they downplay the Chinese part and play up the name?

Like they always say something along the lines of historical british marque (chinese owned said quietly). Rather than just saying be open and honest about the whole thing and stating it's a Chinese designed and manufactured car (the badge is irrelevant anyway, just a recycled name they bought to help flog the cars and motoring journalism is running with it for some reason -$$$$$)

E: to put it clearer these advertorials have done this since the brand relaunched. Muddy it up to make it sound like Chinese investors bought a British car factory, rather than the reality that a Chinese car factory just bought the rights to a badge.

It's the same as bike brand Royal Enfield - owned and manufactured in India but they consistently talk about it's 'British heritage' in reviews and advertising.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by oldel

Is it just me or does anyone else hate the way they downplay the Chinese part and play up the name?

Like they always say something along the lines of historical british marque (chinese owned said quietly). Rather than just saying be open and honest about the whole thing and stating it's a Chinese designed and manufactured car (the badge is irrelevant anyway, just a recycled name they bought to help flog the cars and motoring journalism is running with it for some reason -$$$$$)

What's missing from their MG History page?

https://mgmotor.com.au/mg-family/mg-history/

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

What's missing from their MG History page?

https://mgmotor.com.au/mg-family/mg-history/

Chinese ownership,

Kinda disingenuous, like Masterfoods tomato sauce:

'Made in Australia'



'From 35% Australian ingredients'



Whats the 35% Australian ingredients? The plastic bottle?

[randel]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Whats the 35% Australian ingredients?

Probably the water

[csv8]

[QUOTE=randel;6543889]Probably the water [/QUOTE
Aldi and Rosella Tomato Sauce is 100% Australian.
It wouldnt suprise me if the Aldi Tomato Sauce was Rosella.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Chinese ownership,

Kinda disingenuous, like Masterfoods tomato sauce:

'Made in Australia'

image

'From 35% Australian ingredients'

image

Whats the 35% Australian ingredients? The plastic bottle?

At least Ford are (kind've) honest about the Aust content

[383hq]

[QUOTE=csv8;6543923]

Originally Posted by randel

Probably the water [/QUOTE
Aldi and Rosella Tomato Sauce is 100% Australian.
It wouldnt suprise me if the Aldi Tomato Sauce was Rosella.

Not many Large Australian companies left that are still Australian owned.
Larger populations afford larger businesses/profits enabling buyout of Australian companies that are built on smaller population. Naturally, maximum profit over nationalistic loyalty is considered best value.
Cant have it both ways with small population.

Hell, even Shockworks manufacture out of South Korea.

Similarly, All Australians love best value (which differs person to person).

Somewhere there is a manager or two who feels vindicated in deciding to exit vehicle manufacturing in Australia, with everything happening in the market now, can't change it.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by oldel

You make a good point, the profit must be huge.
I wonder if the margins are out the factory gate or whether the AU distributor/SAIC australia (if it exists), make the cash because of "special AU" pricing?



Is it just me or does anyone else hate the way they downplay the Chinese part and play up the name?

Like they always say something along the lines of historical british marque (chinese owned said quietly). Rather than just saying be open and honest about the whole thing and stating it's a Chinese designed and manufactured car (the badge is irrelevant anyway, just a recycled name they bought to help flog the cars and motoring journalism is running with it for some reason -$$$$$)

E: to put it clearer these advertorials have done this since the brand relaunched. Muddy it up to make it sound like Chinese investors bought a British car factory, rather than the reality that a Chinese car factory just bought the rights to a badge.

I have noticed this in the Haval ads. Something along the lines of European design and safety? No mention of it being completely Chinese.

[T3rminator]

I can't recall seeing an ad where they would market the fact that the vehicle was designed or made overseas. Not for Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia etc.

Except maybe BMW. I do recall "german engineering" was a great marketing point.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

I can't recall seeing an ad where they would market the fact that the vehicle was designed or made overseas. Not for Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia etc.

Except maybe BMW. I do recall "german engineering" was a great marketing point.

The chinese manufacturers are doing it simply to deceive potential buyers into believing it comes from somewhere other than china.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The chinese manufacturers are doing it simply to deceive potential buyers into believing it comes from somewhere other than china.

It's Advertising, deceiving goes with the job

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

I can't recall seeing an ad where they would market the fact that the vehicle was designed or made overseas. Not for Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia etc.

Except maybe BMW. I do recall "german engineering" was a great marketing point.

A lot of companies throw around Europe as a general term. Usually 'European styling' or 'European Design' Never trust a company that uses vague locations to sell stuff.

I saw a product last year that said proudly in huge letters "Made in Europe"
It peaked my interest since Europe is a huge and diverse place, so I looked into the product. Turns out it was made in one of those small Eastern European countries that are probably less advanced than the developing countries that print their name as inconspicuously as possible on the products they make.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Ben73

A lot of companies throw around Europe as a general term. Usually 'European styling' or 'European Design' Never trust a company that uses vague locations to sell stuff.

I saw a product last year that said proudly in huge letters "Made in Europe"
It peaked my interest since Europe is a huge and diverse place, so I looked into the product. Turns out it was made in one of those small Eastern European countries that are probably less advanced than the developing countries that print their name as inconspicuously as possible on the products they make.

I do recall hearing ads with "european style and handling" can't remember which brand. But I distinctly remember it was either BMW, Audi or VW that specially marketed the "german engineering". Having owned a BMW Z4 when I was in the UK, I can 100% understand why they would use it in the marketing. The build is bloody spectacular, everything is just solid. Shame the engine consumed 1 litre of oil every 1000 miles

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The chinese manufacturers are doing it simply to deceive potential buyers into believing it comes from somewhere other than china.

I don't think you are giving enough credit to average joe public. If I'm going to spend $30k+ on a car I'd sure be talking about it and looking it up, and it wouldn't take long before the "its made in China" comes up. Just google any of the brands and the search results will generally come up with something about chinese ownership. LVD Australia's website, about us section, even spells it out in black and white. All those MG car reviews almost certainly brings up the "its now owned by China".

Anyhow, if they are trying to deceive then they are doing a terrible job. If I was trying to deceive you I'd be setting up several shell companies all over Europe as a front, then add some obscure shareholding arrangements, to make ownership more of a puzzle on google. They are obviously not going to use "made in china" on the ads, its not exactly a sexy selling factor

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

I do recall hearing ads with "european style and handling" can't remember which brand. But I distinctly remember it was either BMW, Audi or VW that specially marketed the "german engineering". Having owned a BMW Z4 when I was in the UK, I can 100% understand why they would use it in the marketing. The build is bloody spectacular, everything is just solid. Shame the engine consumed 1 litre of oil every 1000 miles



I don't think you are giving enough credit to average joe public. If I'm going to spend $30k+ on a car I'd sure be talking about it and looking it up, and it wouldn't take long before the "its made in China" comes up. Just google any of the brands and the search results will generally come up with something about chinese ownership. LVD Australia's website, about us section, even spells it out in black and white. All those MG car reviews almost certainly brings up the "its now owned by China".

Anyhow, if they are trying to deceive then they are doing a terrible job. If I was trying to deceive you I'd be setting up several shell companies all over Europe as a front, then add some obscure shareholding arrangements, to make ownership more of a puzzle on google. They are obviously not going to use "made in china" on the ads, its not exactly a sexy selling factor

I think you are giving way too much credit to the IQ of the average car buyer. Most wouldn't have a clue. Nor are they interested beyond I want X type of car, and what's cheapest.

Or they are Toyota sheeple who just buy them because Toyota.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Ben73

A lot of companies throw around Europe as a general term. Usually 'European styling' or 'European Design' Never trust a company that uses vague locations to sell stuff.

I saw a product last year that said proudly in huge letters "Made in Europe"
It peaked my interest since Europe is a huge and diverse place, so I looked into the product. Turns out it was made in one of those small Eastern European countries that are probably less advanced than the developing countries that print their name as inconspicuously as possible on the products they make.

Romania comes to mind... over a quarter of the population live on less than US$5.50 per day.
I don't know what their quality is like, but they make the following Fords
Ford Transit Connect (2009-2012)
Ford B-Max (2012-2017)
Ford EcoSport (2017–present)
Ford Puma (2019–present)

[MercuryT]

My neighbour has one.

Really nice car and great value.

Would I buy one? No.

But the lovely lady is near 80 and it's simply perfect for her. Looks great too in dark red.

[MercuryT]

Ok I took their car for a drive today (to get groceries as I had day off and husband in hospital)

It's a fantastic SUV - interior perfectly ok, engine lacks power but fine for near 80yos, tranny not much good.

7 year warranty and at 30odd K or something ridiculous is a great buy.

As previous theirs the dark burgundy and looks every bit as good as SUVs twice the price and less warranty.

Check out for sure if up for a cheap SUV.

[MercuryT]

[chinamonty]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

When you think about it, the MGs we have are either overly expensive or the closest sized models by the Koreans and Japanese are grossly under priced.

I threw in Thailand as we often say that what we get from there is grossly overpriced and the figures seem to back that thinking.

While the old adage of "the Chinese work for a bowl of rice a day" is far from the truth these days their average income and standard of living is still way, way below their Asian competition.

Gross domestic product (at purchasing power parity) per capita. The GDP (PPP) per capita is often considered one of the indicators of a country's standard of living.

China: $17,206
Korea: $44,292
Japan: $41,637
Thailand: $18,073
Australia: $50,845

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...PP)_per_capita

Their standard of living costs are less than half that of Japan and Korea yet their cars are only say 15-20% lower.

We can assume that the Japanese and Korean plants have a greater deal of automation (costing more up front) and that China will take advantage of their much lower cost of labour to save on the robotics and do more things by hand.

If you look at average income per country:

China: Doesn't even make the top 35 list so less than $16k
Korea: $40,856
Japan: $40,573
Thailand: Doesn't even make the top 35 list so less than $16k
Australia: $53,349

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_average_wage

Even at bargain basement prices they are probably making a very tidy profit on each car.

Throw in lax environmental and waste management rules, a workforce that works without complaint 60 hrs a week, and the huge government support and subsidies their manufacturers get its not at all surprising that they can undercut the competition.

They may be 95% as good as the rest, but for a 20% discount people are happy to take the gamble.

In 4-5 years when they start selling their next wave of models they will be 98% as good as their competition due to more investment in automation and and still be 15-20% cheaper than the rest.

If any manufacturer has a hope of competing with China they need to get manufacturing going in India or Philippines.

the problem with comparing what you earn is that it is meaningless unless you compare it to what you need to spend. I lived in China between 2004 and 2009 and in those days I could have had an OK standard of living on CNY8.000 per month which equated then to about AUD1200. My rent was the equivalent of USD 45 per month and a dozen long necks of beer were AUD6. A restaurant meal was about AUD 10.
The current average wage in places like Shanghai is USD1240 per mpnth.
By they way in my time there doing pre-shipment inspections at various facories all over the country the only companies I heard of with 60hour weeks were run by Taiwanese. The factories I visited usually worked 8:30 to 6:00 mon to fri and a half day on Saturday but some did work a full day Saturday.

[MercuryT]

BTW when I said groceries I meant to buy for my neighbor and condition was I drive her new car!

She is nearly 80 so i like to help where I can with how i've been in hospital etc.

[chinamonty]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

BTW when I said groceries I meant to buy for my neighbor and condition was I drive her new car!

She is nearly 80 so i like to help where I can with how i've been in hospital etc.

Thats a really nice thing to do. I bet she is very appreciative.

[MercuryT]

Originally Posted by chinamonty

Thats a really nice thing to do. I bet she is very appreciative.

Her husband has had so many emergency visits.....we worry.

Pam is a fantastic woman so i help where I can.

(i would done the Grocery shop anyway but we laughed on MG so so took it for a spin as Pam insisted)

[Yellow_Festiva]

Your questions answered: Is MG Chinese-owned?

Need advice on a new car? Got a problem with your existing ride? We’re here to help...
There is more and more talk about Chinese cars as MG, LDV and GWM grow their following in Australia.

But much of the talk comes in the form of questions, from the origins of the brands to the reliability, quality and resale value of their products.

Question: Some time ago I heard that the MG car brand had sold their badge to China and they were not the cars of old. What is your opinion — Gerry M

Answer: It’s not an opinion, it’s a fact. MG is Chinese owned as are brands like Volvo and Lotus. We’ve driven MG’s two newest SUV models and they are decent but still have progress to make to match the best from brands like Hyundai and VW. MG is not the only Chinese brand making good progress with its products, the latest SUVs and dual-cabs from brands such as LDV and GWM are also much improved.

Question: I have sent an email of protest to MG Australia about them using the slogan ‘MG Value Since 1924’ in their advertising. I am very concerned as a motoring sportsman that MG Australia is misleading people with claims that the Chinese-operated company has been building MG motor cars since 1924, which is incorrect as the original Morris Garage stopped production back in 1972 in Longwall Street, Oxford, in England. — Slade Y

Answer: You are not the only one who feels this way.

https://www.carsales.com.au/editoria...hinese-128489/

[T3rminator]

The next Q&A is interesting, one that I didn't know i.e. Michelin being churned out of China...

Question: Your opinion on Chinese-manufactured tyres, please. I am very uncomfortable about them, particularly with long-term use. Just recently I had a new set of tyres put on my Volkswagen Tiguan Allspace and I’m not sure whether I should change them. — Klaudia S

Answer: After investigating, your tyres are from the South Korean brand Hankook, which makes perfectly acceptable tyres. As yet, it’s too early to judge Chinese tyres but there are global brands that manufacture in China, including Michelin, and they will apply their normal quality standards.

So as I said, if they really wanted to deceive and hide the china owned factor, they would have just incorporated a company in europe, set chinese shareholdings through multi layer companies, and just have the vehicles coming out of China. How many people are going to stop buying Michelin just because its being churned out of China?