Skills shortage again!!!

[scoupedy]

Originally Posted by Auturbo6

The skills shortage can be partly blamed on the union mentality under which this country runs. As long as everyone within establishments earns the same wage, whether competant and hard working or not. I personaly have had to endure one lazy and incompetant tradesperson after the other time and time again, yet these people are the first to windge and complain about how unfair this and that is! Too make things worse the current young generation want everything handed to them on a platter. Trades in general are in trouble and things are only going to get worse.
However the upside is that those of us that are left will be able demand wages higher than ever before. Even if our future operations highly entail babysitting forign workers.
They couldn't be any worse than whats getting around now!

Unless off course if the government just do what they did with my trade- deregulate it so any moron of the street can work in the industry then you trade certificate is a hinderance as you will want more money and expect better quality work

[big fella]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

im not 100% sure on the numbers, but im sure on one of those docos about immigration it said that 'boat people' type immigrants accounted for less than 1% of the total immigrants.

Don't let facts get in the way of a decent rant nstg8a. They don't even form the majority of our "illegal" immigrants. Most of these are people who have come on tourist or student visas and never gone home. It wouldn't quite have the same impact though.

Which of these headlines do you think would sell more copy?

"White skinned, English speaking, Canadian woman overstays visa because she was stoned and having a good time"
OR
"Afghani Muslims with possible links to terror cells throw children off leaky boat"

Neither need necessarily be true, but I know which one most of the so called news services would run with.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by dave289

Ironic how some feel the need to keep their post count up by jibbering crraaap. going by your post count you must of spend 3 years non stop on this site alone,I was going to flame you but now I just feel sorry for you.

Give it a rest, and this goes for everyone else aswell. Back on topic

[xt3valve]

Originally Posted by scoupedy

This is part of the problem since when have chippies ever been worth that!!! i have two trades that would never pay anywhere near that, a mate who top mechanical engineering working now as a plant manager only earns about $80k this guy got 100% in a heat and energy subject (3rd year)

Mate some people probably think that where not worth diddaly squat. But obviously some employers think we are. Why would they pay the money otherwise.

Im not complaining.

Just goes to show that you dont need diplomas and uni degrees to get the big dollars. I droped out of school at the end of year 10 completed a 4 year apprenticeship in carpentry and now on the big bux building boxes to fill with concrete.


Its FIFO work and it may not suit everybody but it pays the best and you get about 16 weeks holiday.

Hard to believe I know.

Oh and engineers and management are on salary. The workers are on wages.

The workers will earn more than management any day. Sometimes brains doesnt always pay.

[Green X]

Originally Posted by scoupedy

And how did you get this apprenticeship in the first place?
and you think working your butt off for 3.5 years is long how many holidays did you have ?-4 weeks a year? i had two weeks off in 5 years
you started on $12/hour($25000/year) and now earn 5-7 times that!!!!
My trade paid me $20 extra a week after i qualified and the most you can earn is about $40k/year but I got that apprenticeship when youth unemployment was 40% (1989)
p.s i spent 5 years partime studing and did not finish

Why did you take a apprenticeship that you, A don't enjoy, B has verry little in the way of wages and C when you finished why didn't you go and do somthing else when you were still young that had morer too offer?? I moved back in with Mum & Dad so i could do my Apprenticeship.

To spend 5 years studing and not finish sounds like a silly thing to do, why go straight out and try and do a degree why not start lower and work upto it. I.E Cert 4/ Deploma go out get a Job get Industry time get some $$ in the bank then do the degree and walk back into a job.

I Applied for it, and did 2 interviews. I started out in the marine indestry. Drove 600km a week to go to work + spent 2 years doing night corses on top of work and TAFE
I normally took 2 weeks holidays a year, sorry i sould say i started on $6.50P/h it went to $12 after i turned 21.

Yep you know why i earn 5 time that now. I have 8 days off evry 28 days, i work 130 upto 156hour+ fortnights when on plant shutdowns, My job isn't stable I can go to bed employed and wake up unemployed, it's happened.

Average summer day.


A Pilbara iron remote site, next site 50km, closest town 130km Day in day out. My family and freinds 1400km away

[Green X]

Originally Posted by scoupedy

This is part of the problem since when have chippies ever been worth that!!! i have two trades that would never pay anywhere near that, a mate who top mechanical engineering working now as a plant manager only earns about $80k this guy got 100% in a heat and energy subject (3rd year)

Mate he's a chippy on barrow I.E gorgan. it's Off-shore work in the gas sector. working on the camp or mabey civils, he may get 1 year out of it mabey!!, then he'll be outa a job. don't bump into too many chippys out on the Plant.

Good money on Expansion Projects is nothing new, the guys who did the first NWS LNG plant in 86 or whatever where on killer coin aswell.




Where does your mate work. how manny years does he have under his belt? Give him 5-10 years he'll be on 300,000 a year if he works in the right areas.

[xt3valve]

Not offshore. Barrow now has its own post code.

Could be here for 5 years if im lucky and do the right thing. MASSIVE job and its the slowest job I have ever been on. Takes 2 months to get gear from the mainland to the island. Because of all the quarantine it has to go through.

But yeh its the constructon industry. I dont expect and know I wont be on this money forever. Once this one is over its on to the next job. All jobs having different agreements meaning different pay. This one just so happens to be a workers dream agreement.

[xy500]

Originally Posted by Green X

Mate he's a chippy on barrow I.E gorgan. it's Off-shore work in the gas sector. working on the camp or mabey civils, he may get 1 year out of it mabey!!, then he'll be outa a job. don't bump into too many chippys out on the Plant.

Good money on Expansion Projects is nothing new, the guys who did the first NWS LNG plant in 86 or whatever where on killer coin aswell.




Where does your mate work. how manny years does he have under his belt? Give him 5-10 years he'll be on 300,000 a year if he works in the right areas.

it's true, don't count on the formwork in the north west to keep up at its current pace. Formworkers are in big demand, to the point that people are getting away with fudging their resumes. I know people that pretended to have experience and somehow got away with it!
I hope it comes around to bight them in the bum, i can't stand it when someone unqualified gets a job when someone qualified can't. All that hard work for nothing.

[Green X]

Originally Posted by xt3valve

Not offshore. Barrow now has its own post code.

Could be here for 5 years if im lucky and do the right thing. MASSIVE job and its the slowest job I have ever been on. Takes 2 months to get gear from the mainland to the island. Because of all the quarantine it has to go through.

It's Offshore, the post office was put there so they could get away with saying it's not and so workers carn't get the Tax brakes.

I wouldn't bet the house on being out there 5 years, They'll be pushing Gas way befor then.

[xt3valve]

Dont worry about that. We have heaps of so called formwork chippies that have come up here to work. Trust me you can spot them a mile away and they wont last too long up here. Once management find out who they are there quick to get rid of them. There is always another formwork chippie with experiance to take his place.

Its easy to find out who they are. One easy way that makes me laugh is they kock up formwork shutters out of LVL and plywood like there making a stud frame wall for a house haha. Not the way to do it son. bye bye

[BOSHOG]

Originally Posted by dave289

*charming sentiments removed*

*excitable adjective removed* you are whats wrong with our great country, you should realize that a majority of migrants come to this country the right way, follow the rules and ADD to our communities. maybe you should do more reading to go along with learning basic English, just those migrants have to.

[Fled74]

FYI, I'm a migrant who's been here less than 8 years. I came here under a skilled worker visa, only to find out when I arrived that my 3 years' real-world experience in I.T. and web development didn't mean diddly-squat unless it was with an American company. Coming from a third-world country like the Philippines, it was like turning in a blank resume with my job applications.

Being on permanent resident status meant I was not eligible for financial assistance for two years, and I could not afford TAFE. So I basically took any job that came along and busted my *** for 5 years, doing the crap jobs that "white people are too cool to do themselves" , until I got the job I'm doing now (pallet control for a big transport company on just $47K a year). So I didn't come over here just to be on the dole and be a burden on taxpayers.

As far as I know, I haven't taken any jobs from anybody - I've actually given regular long-term work to several casuals who needed it.
Unlike a lot of migrants who barely speak English, I can actually pass for a Skip on the phone, and unlike a lot of migrants I actually made an effort to assimilate. I got my Aussie citizenship four years ago.
I pay my taxes on time and contribute to society.

In fact, I've never encountered statements like yours, Dave, anywhere except on here, where people are mostly anonymous. All the other Aussies I've encountered are very open and welcoming. So there's no need for that kind of attitude here or elsewhere. Like it or not, migrants are a fact of life these days.

[RG]

Originally Posted by Fled74

FYI, I'm a migrant who's been here less than 8 years. I came here under a skilled worker visa, only to find out when I arrived that my 3 years' real-world experience in I.T. and web development didn't mean diddly-squat unless it was with an American company. Coming from a third-world country like the Philippines, it was like turning in a blank resume with my job applications.

Being on permanent resident status meant I was not eligible for financial assistance for two years, and I could not afford TAFE. So I basically took any job that came along and busted my *** for 5 years, doing the crap jobs that "white people are too cool to do themselves" , until I got the job I'm doing now (pallet control for a big transport company on just $47K a year). So I didn't come over here just to be on the dole and be a burden on taxpayers.

As far as I know, I haven't taken any jobs from anybody - I've actually given regular long-term work to several casuals who needed it.
Unlike a lot of migrants who barely speak English, I can actually pass for a Skip on the phone, and unlike a lot of migrants I actually made an effort to assimilate. I got my Aussie citizenship four years ago.
I pay my taxes on time and contribute to society.

In fact, I've never encountered statements like yours, Dave, anywhere except on here, where people are mostly anonymous. All the other Aussies I've encountered are very open and welcoming. So there's no need for that kind of attitude here or elsewhere. Like it or not, migrants are a fact of life these days.

Statements like this prove that you don't have to be born here to be an Aussie, and just because you are born here doesn't make you an automatic Aussie.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Fled74

FYI, I'm a migrant who's been here less than 8 years. I came here under a skilled worker visa, only to find out when I arrived that my 3 years' real-world experience in I.T. and web development didn't mean diddly-squat unless it was with an American company. Coming from a third-world country like the Philippines, it was like turning in a blank resume with my job applications.

Being on permanent resident status meant I was not eligible for financial assistance for two years, and I could not afford TAFE. So I basically took any job that came along and busted my *** for 5 years, doing the crap jobs that "white people are too cool to do themselves" , until I got the job I'm doing now (pallet control for a big transport company on just $47K a year). So I didn't come over here just to be on the dole and be a burden on taxpayers.

As far as I know, I haven't taken any jobs from anybody - I've actually given regular long-term work to several casuals who needed it.
Unlike a lot of migrants who barely speak English, I can actually pass for a Skip on the phone, and unlike a lot of migrants I actually made an effort to assimilate. I got my Aussie citizenship four years ago.
I pay my taxes on time and contribute to society.

In fact, I've never encountered statements like yours, Dave, anywhere except on here, where people are mostly anonymous. All the other Aussies I've encountered are very open and welcoming. So there's no need for that kind of attitude here or elsewhere. Like it or not, migrants are a fact of life these days.

now thats what i like to hear..especially that you can pass as a skip on the phone.

top post fled..

[Professor Farnsworth]

keep

the

thread

ON

TRACK

[|||]

Originally Posted by Fled74

FYI, I'm a migrant who's been here less than 8 years. I came here under a skilled worker visa, only to find out when I arrived that my 3 years' real-world experience in I.T. and web development didn't mean diddly-squat unless it was with an American company. Coming from a third-world country like the Philippines, it was like turning in a blank resume with my job applications.

Being on permanent resident status meant I was not eligible for financial assistance for two years, and I could not afford TAFE. So I basically took any job that came along and busted my *** for 5 years, doing the crap jobs that "white people are too cool to do themselves" , until I got the job I'm doing now (pallet control for a big transport company on just $47K a year). So I didn't come over here just to be on the dole and be a burden on taxpayers.

As far as I know, I haven't taken any jobs from anybody - I've actually given regular long-term work to several casuals who needed it.
Unlike a lot of migrants who barely speak English, I can actually pass for a Skip on the phone, and unlike a lot of migrants I actually made an effort to assimilate. I got my Aussie citizenship four years ago.
I pay my taxes on time and contribute to society.

In fact, I've never encountered statements like yours, Dave, anywhere except on here, where people are mostly anonymous. All the other Aussies I've encountered are very open and welcoming. So there's no need for that kind of attitude here or elsewhere. Like it or not, migrants are a fact of life these days.

good post. i'd take thousands of hard workers like you over lazy "aussies" with "F-off we're full" stickers on their rusted out cars.

[Fled74]

Thanks everyone, and to keep the thread on track, I agree with the original poster's sentiments. Whenever I hear about skills shortages I get frustrated - in my case I was granted a visa because of my skills in a certain field, but when I finally arrived here I couldn't get any work in that field unless I brought my skills up to the "Australian standard."
I couldn't do that because I wasn't eligible for financial assistance to pay for TAFE courses. That led to a lot of disillusionment.
In my mind the government was only compounding the problem - bringing in skilled migrants despite not having any jobs we were qualified for. Both population and unemployment were increasing at the same time. This was back in 2003, but it's obviously still happening today.

[ST]

I apologise if my post came out provocatively, it was solely intended to be tongue in cheek. I just don't understand how somebody can believe something like that so strongly right now; it is completely against what Australia as a nation is trying to achieve.

[scoupedy]

Thank you for all your reply's the original post is abit all aver the place my points were:

Government & mining companies don't want to train they just want to steal people from OS- which means people like myself don't get a chance and when the **** falls out of the mining boom we will then be stuck with them. (NOT THE MIGRANTS FAULT AT ALL) side note when i was looking for work the only mine open in Kalgoorlie was the tourist mine as soon as the **** falls out they WILL close them down.

Universities are a business and don't give a #### about actually educating people- Out of 160 that started engineering at QUT in second year there were 45 left, of that only about 20 graduated. (~12.5%)

Trades should be illegal unless they offer above average wages- the only trades worth doing are building trades, most are a waste of time.

My friend who topped the class (MECH ENG) has been working for 7 years with the same company (Amcor got him in 4th year) when he first started i was earning more than him with a car and phone!!! but yes in a few years he will be earning big dollars and he deseves it.

The reason i did those trades was because in 1989 when i left school the unemployment (youth ) was 40%+ and at the time only job going (every mate was on the dole earning more than me-Dole $220 me $160).

The real reason your getting $200k as a chippie is the hours and where you work your actual full time rate would be about $70k which is more like it ( i made about $70k as a cabbie working 60 hours /week) i was thinking you were getting $200k for 40hr/week!!

The reason I gave up after 5 years study i was burnt out sick of being poor, and sick of the university giving girls easier assignments and screwing me as far as work was concerned (setting exams on Saturday and not giving a **** that i worked EVERY saturday for the money that i lived on) not one of my friends that graduated worked.

anyhow i have given up... better bring in someone to cover me in the dole line

[burnz]

maybe the skill shortage memo was an internal document...

the serous lack of skills displayed by the upper/lower house, the house of reps and of course the govco itself...

WANTED: treasurer for local goverment, the ability to be able to count to ten a must.
the ability to plan a budget prefered but not essential.
on the job traing provided.

fax your resume to 1300 WESUCK.

[Samy82]

Ok, I am generation Y, borderline really, but I totally understand where you guys are coming from with the young folk of today expecting too much too soon. We do need to work hard to get somewhere in life, but we need to pick what's right for us. EG, those who want to work in mines, do it, and yes I've made mistakes too. I completed a Motor mechanic apprenticeship thinking that is what I wanted to do... 5 and a half years late, changed my mind. I know blokes who have been in the industry for 20 years only earning $50,0000 tops, and they are highly skilled in technical diagnostics, but the way that trade is going, people are becoming simply lubeys and parts fitters so it is more beneficial in the eyes of an employer to hire cheap immigrant labour. This is disheartening for younger blokes because they work hard, for 4 years to get paid crap wages. Yes alot could've picked another trade, but passion doesn't pay rent and buy nappies... I miyself have started a mechanical engineering degree this year, and am passionate about all things technical. If I have to work for peanuts for the first 5-10 years of my life, it will be better than the trade I left and will work out for me in years to come that I will be able to support myself and my family. Starting and stopping and having 3 trades or whatever is all well and good, but you never "establish" a career, no stability is achieved. As for immigration, I am first gen Aussie, my folks both came out as children from europe, they both embrace their heritage but I see them as Aussies. Both set of grandparents had to be sponsered and find jobs as soon as hitting the shores the proper way. My grandfather built a house, and a business up from nothing and lived the "australian" way which I've always believed as being you earn what you deserve. Skills shortage? No. Skills training shortage? Yes.

[|||]

Originally Posted by scoupedy

Thank you for all your reply's the original post is abit all aver the place my points were:

Government & mining companies don't want to train they just want to steal people from OS- which means people like myself don't get a chance and when the **** falls out of the mining boom we will then be stuck with them. (NOT THE MIGRANTS FAULT AT ALL) side note when i was looking for work the only mine open in Kalgoorlie was the tourist mine as soon as the **** falls out they WILL close them down.

Universities are a business and don't give a #### about actually educating people- Out of 160 that started engineering at QUT in second year there were 45 left, of that only about 20 graduated. (~12.5%)

Trades should be illegal unless they offer above average wages- the only trades worth doing are building trades, most are a waste of time.

My friend who topped the class (MECH ENG) has been working for 7 years with the same company (Amcor got him in 4th year) when he first started i was earning more than him with a car and phone!!! but yes in a few years he will be earning big dollars and he deseves it.

The reason i did those trades was because in 1989 when i left school the unemployment (youth ) was 40%+ and at the time only job going (every mate was on the dole earning more than me-Dole $220 me $160).

The real reason your getting $200k as a chippie is the hours and where you work your actual full time rate would be about $70k which is more like it ( i made about $70k as a cabbie working 60 hours /week) i was thinking you were getting $200k for 40hr/week!!

The reason I gave up after 5 years study i was burnt out sick of being poor, and sick of the university giving girls easier assignments and screwing me as far as work was concerned (setting exams on Saturday and not giving a **** that i worked EVERY saturday for the money that i lived on) not one of my friends that graduated worked.

anyhow i have given up... better bring in someone to cover me in the dole line

its obvious you are frustrated & i do feel exactly where you are coming from, but focussing on factors outside your control wont solve your frustration.

1) you had a bad experience at uni. i didn't go to your uni so i cant comment on it, but as a rule they work ok for a large organisation. how about you take some credits from your uncompleted degree & try & finish it somewhere else that provides a better service?

2) people are paid what the market thinks they're worth. most people would love to earn a great wage doing something they love but it doesnt always work out that way. to make a living you usually either have to work hard mentally (lots of education + high stress/complicated job) or work hard physically (education + big hours on the job/difficult conditions). work out which of these options appeals to you and go at it.

3) if you're smart enough to get this far welfare is a cop out. the dole has its place but if you're physically & mentally able to work then relying on hand outs instead of working will do nothing to solve your frustration.

[ROLLI]

I am gen Y as well, I have had so many jobs cos I just wanted to start at top be on the big $ I used to get frustrated cos people there were on more money than me and did half the work. It took me a long time to pull myself together and just stick at it and get some experience, do some hard work to earn where i wanna be. I am now also a Pallet Controller/HR and doing a diploma in business managment which work is paying for slowly getting to the top. Anyway 2 of my mates just applied for the same job, both same age 23 one had 5 years experience and good record other had 2 years experience had a few jobs but they gave the job to him cos he has a house to pay off something to work for and my other mate still lives at home. I guess its just up to the employer and what they are looking for. I have a few mates just starting apprenticeships at age 25 been labouring for years now and havent got anywhere. Its a tuff world out there if your not prepared to put in you will not get anywhere.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by scoupedy

Universities are a business and don't give a #### about actually educating people- Out of 160 that started engineering at QUT in second year there were 45 left, of that only about 20 graduated. (~12.5%)

Uni's will not teach you the way a High school or to a lesser extent a Tafe will. The idea of Uni is they lecture you and you have to learn it yourself by research. Many people will leave as it is a shock. Uni's dont hold your hand because no one is gonna hold your hand in the real world.

[Jason[98.EL]]

I'm a boilermaker by trade and due to a back injury unfortunatly i cant work in the trade anymore

What I would like to do is pass my knowledge on to others but you need to have a teaching degree to do this now if they are saying that there is a shortage then why not get people like me to train them even train the people from other countries to get them up to speed to our standards

Jason

[Samy82]

Jason, you don't need a teaching degree, you can just get a certificate IV in education, Dip Ed, which is 1-1.5 years, then you can be a trade school teacher. Gordon Tafe might be able to give you more info on it.

[scoupedy]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Uni's will not teach you the way a High school or to a lesser extent a Tafe will. The idea of Uni is they lecture you and you have to learn it yourself by research. Many people will leave as it is a shock. Uni's dont hold your hand because no one is gonna hold your hand in the real world.

yeah everyone realizes this when they go to uni my point is if they actually gave a **** about all the students and were interested in teaching and not their own research and could speak half decent english maybe they would retain a few more of these people and we wouldn't have to import skilled migrants, the only students they care about in ENGINEERING is full fee paying students and female students.

[RG]

Originally Posted by scoupedy

yeah everyone realizes this when they go to uni my point is if they actually gave a **** about all the students and were interested in teaching and not their own research and could speak half decent english maybe they would retain a few more of these people and we wouldn't have to import skilled migrants, the only students they care about in ENGINEERING is full fee paying students and female students.

You don't need them to care, you need them to provide the basic direction you need to take and that is all.

The rest is up to you my friend.

[scoupedy]

Originally Posted by RG

You don't need them to care, you need them to provide the basic direction you need to take and that is all.

The rest is up to you my friend.

Yes this is why we are importing labour constantly and 140 students would prefer they could speak and teach just a little

[RG]

Originally Posted by scoupedy

Yes this is why we are importing labour constantly and 140 students would prefer they could speak and teach just a little

It's uni, they aren't teachers.