Ford committed to leaving Aus.

[Juan Loco]

The Falcon is conceptually dead, and yes the decision to kill it off was made a LONG time ago, way before it was announced. No point wasting too much money advertising and building recognition for a dead product.
At this point, it appears likely the Commode will continue. It will probably be FWD and made in China, but it will wear the Commode badge, hence why they will continue to spend advertising dollars maintaining the brand.

At its core, Ford remains an American "Family" company. It is driven by internal politics, and puts American interests 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, and everyone else distant last. (By which I mean that they will manufacture wherever its cheap, sell wherever they can make a buck, and care nothing for the countries they do or do not operate in.) Not only do they have no loyalty or affection for Australia, I reckon we are still being punished for the perceived sins of Jac Nasser.

[au2000]

Again, I'm not suprised about how ford are handling these final 2 years of manufacturing, when it comes to territory and falcon, I'm sure ford has it's business analysis and has planned how many cars they think they can sell between now and then and will prob only make a specific number until closure as they won't risk producing vehicles past a certain date.
as for the question of brand loyalty for future purchases, well like most others, when I buy the next car after 2016 it won't be based on it carrying a blue oval badge anymore,
ford will have to offer me what I want & need & at this moment apart from the falcon they don't.
If I needed a ute/ 4x4 the ranger would be it, but I don't need it
If I want a rear wheel drive sedan, the 300c would be it
Most probably the next one will be a 4 cylinder for the mrs & although we love the focus st, she only wants an auto this time so the focus is out
So that's means she will for the first time end up in something other than a ford,
Unless by some miracle ford begin to slip autos into their st range.

[xr6 nut]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

Yes, put huge tariff barriers back up, then we will only have the choice between an EA falcon or VN Commodore style of car with quality and features to match.
Advancement in aussie cars has ONLY happened because of competition.

yes competition is a good thing...but you also seem to forget the 1979 opel rekford...or crumpledoof which fell apart after about 500 kms on aussie roads and gobbled up around 500 mill in r and d,,,,or the xp reliability trail of 1962
this is what we will lose out of ford/toyota/gmh (along with many jobs/associated industries) leaving a trip back to 1961
inferior products under engineered/underfunded and equipped for the aussie market
the toyota land cruizer might be the best selling 4wd but it sure ain't the best suited to aussie conditions

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by xr6 nut

yes competition is a good thing...but you also seem to forget the 1979 opel rekford...or crumpledoof which fell apart after about 500 kms on aussie roads and gobbled up around 500 mill in r and d,,,,or the xp reliability trail of 1962
this is what we will lose out of ford/toyota/gmh (along with many jobs/associated industries) leaving a trip back to 1961
inferior products under engineered/underfunded and equipped for the aussie market
the toyota land cruizer might be the best selling 4wd but it sure ain't the best suited to aussie conditions

I'm sorry can you please explain further?
It was because of the advancements of overseas makers in quality and refinement that forced the locals to up their game too. Do you seriously believe cars today have the same build quality and refinement from those in the 60's?

The Aussie condition belief is not what it used to be either. The majority of our roads are no worse than those in other developed nations. The USA have far worse conditions than we do, their freeways especially in LA are atrocious. Their weather varies from freezing to unbearably hot. They even have to lay salt on the roads to ensure cars can be driven.

[daryle]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

Yes, put huge tariff barriers back up, then we will only have the choice between an EA falcon or VN Commodore style of car with quality and features to match.
Advancement in aussie cars has ONLY happened because of competition.

What i find annoying is that when the world press gets hold and tests our local products they usually get very strong positive reviews. This has been the case for many years, we just cannot get past barriers which would enable us to sell overseas. Fair playing field for us never existed. I believe South Africa for instance would be a good market for our Territory but we cannot break into their market.
Advancement in Aussie cars would have occurred regardless of competition. We and GMH make a world class car and always have, just cannot break into protected markets. As technology progresses the need for human labor decreases dramatically lessening the validity of the "high cost to make locally" argument. It is simply we have the capacity to produce but cannot break into markets to sell.
No point being able to make 800 vehicles per day and only sell 50.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by daryle

What i find annoying is that when the world press gets hold and tests our local products they usually get very strong positive reviews. This has been the case for many years, we just cannot get past barriers which would enable us to sell overseas. Fair playing field for us never existed. I believe South Africa for instance would be a good market for our Territory but we cannot break into their market.

Ford use to export 20/25000 units a year over there (during SX/SY days) and then it dried up and was replaced for the Everest (which is built over there). Otherwise there are plenty of Terri's in SA.

[xr6 nut]

Originally Posted by Wretched

I'm sorry can you please explain further?
It was because of the advancements of overseas makers in quality and refinement that forced the locals to up their game too. Do you seriously believe cars today have the same build quality and refinement from those in the 60's?

The Aussie condition belief is not what it used to be either. The majority of our roads are no worse than those in other developed nations. The USA have far worse conditions than we do, their freeways especially in LA are atrocious. Their weather varies from freezing to unbearably hot. They even have to lay salt on the roads to ensure cars can be driven.

no it's worse....my 1977 holden is far better in fit/quality/finish than my 3 au's or any car i've worked on built from 1988 on
and you missed my point
if we only had the opel rekford straight off the boat back in 1979 then we would have had broken rebadged crumpledoofs everywhere due to the original design not being up to the task and conditions
that's the main thing we are going to lose with the big three pulling stumps taking thier bat and ball and going home
the ability to change designs due to our unique conditions
while the lada niva might have been a great car in russia...it never suited our conditions even the great peter perfect learnt this the hard way
and fyi even the yanks had to redesign and pump mega $$$$ into the 2 gen monaro to make it viable and suited to thier conditions and market
which ultimately resulted in the crumpledoof being a better designed car for us as well

[LoudPipes]

Australian made vehicles are behind Europe, Japan, Canada, USA and South Korea when it comes to Euro Emissions Standards.
The Australian Government for years has caved in and allowed the local manufacturers to take the soft option when it comes to Emissions.
This fact alone has hindered the export of the Aussie product into the world market.

[xr6 nut]

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

Australian made vehicles are behind Europe, Japan, Canada, USA and South Korea when it comes to Euro Emissions Standards.
The Australian Government for years has caved in and allowed the local manufacturers to take the soft option when it comes to Emissions.
This fact alone has hindered the export of the Aussie product into the world market.

both the "aussie" v8's are imported from americia which are euro 4 complaint
all the export cars barring a few v6 statemans to chinia/and omegas to brazil (alcho cars) where v8's
i never saw a v6 powered base model crumpledoof head to either britian/usa or sualdi arabia,the 3 main export markets barring nz, in the 6 months i worked at hbd (the main export preparing arm of gmh) in early 2001 0r 2002

[Alan D Segal]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Actually my name is Alex

Guess what my name is

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by xr6 nut

no it's worse....my 1977 holden is far better in fit/quality/finish than my 3 au's or any car i've worked on built from 1988 on
and you missed my point
if we only had the opel rekford straight off the boat back in 1979 then we would have had broken rebadged crumpledoofs everywhere due to the original design not being up to the task and conditions
that's the main thing we are going to lose with the big three pulling stumps taking thier bat and ball and going home
the ability to change designs due to our unique conditions
while the lada niva might have been a great car in russia...it never suited our conditions even the great peter perfect learnt this the hard way
and fyi even the yanks had to redesign and pump mega $$$$ into the 2 gen monaro to make it viable and suited to thier conditions and market
which ultimately resulted in the crumpledoof being a better designed car for us as well

What is a crumpledoof? I haven't heard of such a vehicle.
I seriously doubt your claim of the 77 Holden being better built than an AU Falcon.
What unique conditions? Are we on another planet?
How much of the Camry is adjusted? What about about a BMW 3 series, a Toyota Corolla or a Ferrari? What adjustments are made to these cars?

I am confused with your comment, so are you saying that we should have the yanks build our cars because they seem to be able to design them better for our conditions?

[xr6 nut]

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

Australian made vehicles are behind Europe, Japan, Canada, USA and South Korea when it comes to Euro Emissions Standards.
The Australian Government for years has caved in and allowed the local manufacturers to take the soft option when it comes to Emissions.
This fact alone has hindered the export of the Aussie product into the world market.

government policy both current and previous killed off the motor industry here
government policy here and abroad hindered export
holden never made a big amount on any crumpledoof/monaro they sold in the us,in fact at the start they made a huge loss on every car they sold there with oparah giving away about 100 just to get em off the showroom floors, the saving grace and reason they did it was quantity and brand recognition
the gfc was the main factor in killing off exports...but sales where on the decline before this anyway
and if you look at the countries you mentioned all of them have a huge government subsidy scheme and import traffifs not just on cars but agriculture as well

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by xr6 nut

both the "aussie" v8's are imported from americia which are euro 4 complaint

Miami was modified here with the SC. So it had to go through the entire emissions process as well as new durability testing. Its not a crate motor like Holden's V6 and V8.

[xr6 nut]

Originally Posted by Wretched

What is a crumpledoof? I haven't heard of such a vehicle.
I seriously doubt your claim of the 77 Holden being better built than an AU Falcon.
What unique conditions? Are we on another planet?
How much of the Camry is adjusted? What about about a BMW 3 series, a Toyota Corolla or a Ferrari? What adjustments are made to these cars?

I am confused with your comment, so are you saying that we should have the yanks build our cars because they seem to be able to design them better for our conditions?

you got your wish yanks will now build our cars to suit thier conditions
um i suggest you take a trip out to the country...the real country commonly called the "outback"
real gravel roads real dusty really hot (45 deg+ days 0 deg nights) real car breaking conditions unique to australia
lets see a camry survive out there,,,forget your euro puss it will call the white flag and die in a hail of electric sparks at the first sign of a speck of red dust

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by xr6 nut

you got your wish yanks will now build our cars to suit thier conditions
um i suggest you take a trip out to the country...the real country commonly called the "outback"
real gravel roads real dusty really hot (45 deg+ days 0 deg nights) real car breaking conditions unique to australia
lets see a camry survive out there,,,forget your euro puss it will call the white flag and die in a hail of electric sparks at the first sign of a speck of red dust

Huh? my wish? I never said that, re read my post, I never said anything like that.
Yeah I have been there and I didn't see many local cars out there just a bucket load of 4x4.
Tell me, how would a GT or GTS handle those gravel roads or even the Canning stock route? Hell even a standard one? Just as well as a Camry would.
The majority of vehicles out there are not your average sedan or city car but imported 4x4s.
Adding to that, the outback is not a true reflection of the car buying public in Australia anyway. How many Australians drive in the outback?
The only part of the outback they drive is on sealed roads. Any car can do that. Hell Wheels took a 911 Porsche and drove it around Australia, not an issue.

[#Russ#Es#]

Originally Posted by xr6 nut

you got your wish yanks will now build our cars to suit thier conditions
um i suggest you take a trip out to the country...the real country commonly called the "outback"
real gravel roads real dusty really hot (45 deg+ days 0 deg nights) real car breaking conditions unique to australia
lets see a camry survive out there,,,forget your euro puss it will call the white flag and die in a hail of electric sparks at the first sign of a speck of red dust

And how many cars are actually driven daily in the "outback" compared to the rest of Australia? Vehicles driven in the "outback" are designed for it. A Falcon/Commodore has little/no durability advantage over the rest of the market (generally speaking) when they're driven where Ford/Holden have found their market to be.

EDIT: beat me to it Wretched.

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by xr6 nut

both the "aussie" v8's are imported from americia which are euro 4 complaint
all the export cars barring a few v6 statemans to chinia/and omegas to brazil (alcho cars) where v8's
i never saw a v6 powered base model crumpledoof head to either britian/usa or sualdi arabia,the 3 main export markets barring nz, in the 6 months i worked at hbd (the main export preparing arm of gmh) in early 2001 0r 2002

I won’t argue as you obviously have a good handle on the subject.
But if you ever feel the need to broaden your knowledge on Euro Emissions Compliance for Australian produced vehicles have look into the long history of the Australian Government’s pandering to the local manufacturers to allow them to trail years behind the rest of the world.

In short for the recent standards, the Australian government was originally proposing to introduce Euro 5 in 2012 and Euro 6 from 2016 but postponed both at the urging of the local car industry.
Instead Australia will have a phased Euro 5 & 6 emissions roll-out to reflect engine development needed by local manufacturers.

In Australia full Euro 5 standard takes effect on the 1 November, 2016 and by 1 July, 2018 all new light vehicles sold in Australia will have to meet Euro 6
Internationally Euro 5 came into force in September 2009 and applied from 1 January 2011 for the registration and sale of all new passenger cars and Euro 6 came into force in September 2014 and applies from 1 January 2015 for the registration and sale of all new passenger vehicles.

It limits the markets for exporting Aussie made vehicles.
Australia only talks tough on pollution, its never been very active in backing it up with action.
Not that it now matters to the local manufacturers as the industry is all but dead.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Ford use to export 20/25000 units a year over there (during SX/SY days) and then it dried up and was replaced for the Everest (which is built over there). Otherwise there are plenty of Terri's in SA.

Am surprised they even sent that many over?

SA found the Terry too soft for the market while the Everest being more heavy duty than the Terry. 4X4 is the order of the day over there as their roads are 5 times worse than ours except for the main Freeway. There were quite a lot of EL's running around though.

[Juan Loco]

But here's a thought:
WHY should Australia have to comply with European Emission requirements?
The idea that it would boost exports has proven to be a crock, but at the same time it has limited the options available to Australians, and for what?

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Juan Loco

But here's a thought:
WHY should Australia have to comply with European Emission requirements?
The idea that it would boost exports has proven to be a crock, but at the same time it has limited the options available to Australians, and for what?

What would have been the point in establishing emissions standards here when the hard work has already been done? Why re invent the wheel?

How has it limited the options here? Apparently we have a flooded market of cars.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by xr6 nut

um i suggest you take a trip out to the country...the real country commonly called the "outback"
real gravel roads real dusty really hot (45 deg+ days 0 deg nights) real car breaking conditions unique to australia

From what I hear only the 70 series cruiser lasts out there..

Seriously, do you think Australia is the only country with hot dusty roads. and cold nights? you need to travel more or at least watch National Geographic.

Besides that where are most of the cars driven? that's what drives the big car manufacturers

sorry but the built for Australian conditions tag really erks me

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Am surprised they even sent that many over?

SA found the Terry too soft for the market while the Everest being more heavy duty than the Terry. 4X4 is the order of the day over there as their roads are 5 times worse than ours except for the main Freeway. There were quite a lot of EL's running around though.

That could be because south African conditions are tougher than Australia's

[Danny]

Originally Posted by xr6 nut

Removed silly rant

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

Yes, put huge tariff barriers back up, then we will only have the choice between an EA falcon or VN Commodore style of car with quality and features to match.
Advancement in aussie cars has ONLY happened because of competition.

Which is great if your not an unemployed Australian and can afford the choice in this wonderful non union, 24/7 little USA we are making out here.

[1TUFFUTE]

Just read a comparo where they took the new electric or 'hybrid' Mitsubishi PHEV off-roader....offroad. It cut a tyre on a dirt track, had no spare, so had to be recovered and hauled home. Funny fail if you ask me.

Just thought I'd put that out there seeing as were talking about supposed aus conditions,new cars and even new hybrid tech mixed in!

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

Edmunds.com lists the following manufacturers who currently sell new vehicles in the United States market.

Acura, Alfa Romeo, Aston Martin, Audi, Bentley, BMW, Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Dodge, Ferrari, Fiat, Ford, GMC, Honda, Hyundai, Infiniti, Jaguar, Jeep, Kia, Lamborghini, Land Rover, Lexus, Lincoln, Lotus, Maserati, Mazda, McLaren, Mercedes-Benz, Mini, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Porsche, Ram, Rolls-Royce, Scion, Smart, Subaru, Suzuki, Tesla, Toyota, Volkswagen, Volvo.

Yeah, not as many makes as people would think available in the USA. Only 40 or so.

[XD 351 Ute]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

Yes, put huge tariff barriers back up, then we will only have the choice between an EA falcon or VN Commodore style of car with quality and features to match.
Advancement in aussie cars has ONLY happened because of competition.

To hazard a guess, I would say you may have only read the first line of my post, and skimmed the rest.

I did say "SOME protection".
As it stands we virtually have none now, the overseas manufacturers, producers, and exporters of pretty well anything into our country are being greeted with the big red carpet, and even that is not made here any more...

All these free trade agreements, tariff removals etc as I understand it, and I may be, or am probably wrong, (but this is my rant regardless) don't do a hell of a lot to keep anyone making or producing anything of real value in business any more.

It's fair comment to state that quality of our products have improved due to competition, and it is most probably a reality in a lot of cases.

But when some of our goods easily exceed the world standards for similar items that we now have to import, because our previously locally produced goods are 'TOO EXPENSIVE'; due to a now biased playing field, and are now not available, in my view makes the acceptance of inferior items, a bitter pill to swallow.

I'm not stating that we should be going all 'iron curtain' with 1000% tariffs or the like, but our industries should have at least been allowed to compete equally with the imports, to stand a reasonable chance of survival.

I have no idea where any of this will finish up, but I am reasonably certain that a lot more of our country folk will become jobless, we are going to lose so much in the way of skills, talent and ability, of many trades and professions.

Not all of us are destined for greatness on the big screen or super stardom, and to have the option of building our nation with the basic necessities of life, in many of the careers now being lost is just plain wrong.

I know this thread is about vehicle manufacturing here in Australia, but this situation is applicable to so many more, that will affect us for generations, and that is simply a travesty.

Ed

[commodorenutt]

I agree. Tariffs on imported vehicles were phased down over time. Hyundai still did very well when tariffs were at 15-20%. A SMALL tariff (compared to protection schemes in other countries) could have also funded the local manufacturing handouts, instead of taxpayers coughing it up.

People like to blame the unions, but really, it's consumers and the government to blame.

Consumers demanding cheaper goods, the government wanting to appease them, and follow new world order, and the idiots just wanting a cheap price, and who don't care about the quality, are the ones to blame.

They are usually the same ones who will bleat about local companies closing, and look for anyone else to blame but themselves.

I have always chosen an Aussie car as my company car, even when imports were an option. Hell, I even got a V6 Camry for a period when that was the only Aussie option at one company where I worked. I've had numerous Falcons (still have the FG) and Commodores. Even when the gadgets on imports outweighed the locals (Mondeo titanium VS G6) I still stuck with the locals. How many people didn't give a **** about local cars, and are now complaining?

If anyone thinks protection of local industries (and government rules to encourage local manufacturing) doesn't work, you only have to look at the story behind the very successful BMW plant in Spartanburg SC. It's volumes weren't high either.

[daryle]

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257D7400234DC0

Figures.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by xr6 nut

you got your wish yanks will now build our cars to suit thier conditions
um i suggest you take a trip out to the country...the real country commonly called the "outback"
real gravel roads real dusty really hot (45 deg+ days 0 deg nights) real car breaking conditions unique to australia
lets see a camry survive out there,,,forget your euro puss it will call the white flag and die in a hail of electric sparks at the first sign of a speck of red dust

LAWL

Because the 'outback' is where most cars reside anyway.......

0 degree night? because that doesn't happen anywhere but the outback.


Also good news re falcon production being increased too