Should the voting age be raised to 30?

[irish2]

In my experience in supporting causes like the Ark Tribe case link. The younger people on site were more likely to turn upto the rally. The older blokes were still on site working.

[GreenMachine]

More people really should be out in the street supporting Ark Tribe...

[ltd]

Originally Posted by flappist

What is it with the youth of today?
Where is the power and the passion?

When I was a teenager we did not just roll over when the Government did things "for our own good". We stood up and made a difference.

Right to march. Many were arrested until the tyrants worked out that they were in a losing battle.

Sydney Mardi Gras. Being gay was a criminal offence (punishable by being locked up with a lot of other people of the same gender so go figure).

Eco issues. Franklin, Iwasaki, Lake Pedder etc.

War issues. How many street marches and civil disobedience has there been over Iraq & Afganistan as opposed to Vietnam.

We got angry and did something about it.
We rolled federal and state governments as well as individual politicans.

Now if you are really angry you post on a forum, twitter and facebook.

Alcopop tax. Absolute scam aimed square at gen Y
Speed cameras. Scam.
Red P, Green P now 3 years, all about control and domination.
Credit card/phone bill/HECS financial domination.
And so much more.....

The morons (of all sides) keep getting back in and every time I have asked a gen Y about what they believe in and support all I seem to get is O.M.G. LOL.

So should the voting age be raised to 30 until a new generation comes through who is not totally submissive?


P.S. this is sarcasm......(or is it?)

Couldn't agree more.
What's transpired in politics in the last couple of weeks is ostensibly a whole nation being "RickRolled".
Gen Y are about as passionate about current issues as the RTA is about road safety; they couldn't give a rats ***.

Good post as always.

I'll add, this whole agenda 21 thing is really scary, can't believe how passive we have become.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by irish2

In my experience in supporting causes like the Ark Tribe case link. The younger people on site were more likely to turn upto the rally. The older blokes were still on site working.

Exactly.

The young have the power and the passion and nothing to lose.

Older have responsibilities and have to compromise.

e.g.
Young single person loses their job. No money for a short while. Has to drink cheaper beer and rent weekly DVDs rather than new releases. Daily SMS sent reduces to 3 figures for a while.

Older married person loses job. Wife and children need to eat etc. School costs. House needs to be paid for.

Now here is the scam.

When I was 20 I owned my car (piece of crap it was) as finance was very difficult to get. I had no phone debt, no credit card debt, no 1000 day interest free debt, basically I could do what I liked. Almost everyone else was was the same.
I had never even heard of someone my age being bankrupt.

Now the average 20 year old has a credit card (or 7) a really nice newish car (or 3) on finance, a PS3, Xbox 360, Plasma, iPhone, iPad...etc.
That is a lot of commitment and a lot to lose.
This, I believe, is how you have all been manipulated.

Govco are not afraid of you at all because you will do what you are told for fear of reprisals.

Grey power are the opposite. House paid for, kids left home, money in the bank, plenty of time to play the game.

Govco ARE afraid of grey power.

Make them afraid of you and they will stop doing stupid things to you.......

[|||]

Originally Posted by flappist

Exactly.

The young have the power and the passion and nothing to lose.

Older have responsibilities and have to compromise.

e.g.
Young single person loses their job. No money for a short while. Has to drink cheaper beer and rent weekly DVDs rather than new releases. Daily SMS sent reduces to 3 figures for a while.

Older married person loses job. Wife and children need to eat etc. School costs. House needs to be paid for.

Now here is the scam.

When I was 20 I owned my car (piece of crap it was) as finance was very difficult to get. I had no phone debt, no credit card debt, no 1000 day interest free debt, basically I could do what I liked. Almost everyone else was was the same.
I had never even heard of someone my age being bankrupt.

Now the average 20 year old has a credit card (or 7) a really nice newish car (or 3) on finance, a PS3, Xbox 360, Plasma, iPhone, iPad...etc.
That is a lot of commitment and a lot to lose.
This, I believe, is how you have all been manipulated.

Govco are not afraid of you at all because you will do what you are told for fear of reprisals.

Grey power are the opposite. House paid for, kids left home, money in the bank, plenty of time to play the game.

Govco ARE afraid of grey power.

Make them afraid of you and they will stop doing stupid things to you.......

That's an interesting point & I do agree with you that people with the most to lose vote for the status quo rather than rebelling.

The risks for a Gen Y kids to gamble their future in the hope of some reform however are huge. Gen Y knows there is no age pension waiting for them at the end of their working life. The need to build wealth as soon as they can if they want a decent retirement. Of course some will waste it on interest free scams, but that's true of all people. I know plenty of 40 year olds with TVs from Radio Rentals & the like.

So, Gen Y member Johnny decides he wants to be the rebel. To do this he will need lots of time to organise action (time he could be working or studying) and will be exposed to a police force eager to catergorise him as a trouble maker which future employers will have a dim view of.

Why would he risk it? His life is pretty good. No one is forcing him to go to war, cars & safer & faster than ever even though he can't drive the really fast ones yet, the job market is great if he puts his head down & learns a trade/gets a degree, & a few dollars more for a premixed drink isn't a big deal when he's paying $20 to enter the nightclub anyway. There are still battles to fight, but nothing like the ones facing the baby boomers.

The lack of protesting by Gen Y isn't a result of them individually it is a result of the times we live in. The baby boomers got a raw deal from the generation above them so they were right to protest. Gen Y has got it pretty good in comparision.

The kids in Greece in 2008 were more than happy to riot/protest at the perceived injustices they faced so it's not about age it's about weighing up the risks of being the rebel vs the importance of the change you want to make. If this ratio tips back to the risks are lower than the importance of change you'll see plenty of Gen Ys politically active.

[bingoTE50]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Those who have a problem with Generation Y forget who raised it

The selfish, gluttonous lifestyles the bulk of the baby boomer generation leads is a terrible example.

Yep could not agree more.Not a problem in my house....

[Mr Hardware]

flappist = monday's expert

[grandpa_spec_F6]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

flappist = monday's expert

monday's expert? explain please... not quite sure what you mean.

Would have to say considering I know you personally, the generic "Gen Y suckz zomg" statement really doesn't apply very well to either of us.

Edit: I was reminded today why we do get branded as stupid, recalling a friend of mine drawing a picture of himself on the ballot paper, submitting it, then telling everyone and thinking he was the funniest most original person ever to do such a hilarious prank.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by Cam

Cracker post!


Maybe an IQ test at the polling booth is a better idea?

IQ has been phased out and replaced with $A

[flappist]

Originally Posted by grandpa_spec_au

monday's expert? explain please... not quite sure what you mean.

Would have to say considering I know you personally, the generic "Gen Y suckz zomg" statement really doesn't apply very well to either of us.

Edit: I was reminded today why we do get branded as stupid, recalling a friend of mine drawing a picture of himself on the ballot paper, submitting it, then telling everyone and thinking he was the funniest most original person ever to do such a hilarious prank.

The idea of this thread was to bring focus to an issue.

Some agreed with some or all of my points others did not but most supported their position with some form of argument (which is what I was trying to achieve).

Others just got their noses out of joint, blamed everyone and everything except themselves and resorted to personal attacks which, quite amusingly, actually supports my original post.

O.M.G. LOL

[gtfpv]

I'VE JUST READ THE LAST 2 PAGES OF THIS THREAD , AND THE YOUNGER PEOPLE MAKE GREAT SENSE AND I CAN SEE SOME REAL WISE WORDS THERE .
sorry caps . now flappist has made some great points and stirred you up . but the reality is , people under 30 are about to enter the greatest power and do need to start using it , i always used to wonder why the 50yr old had more say then me at work . when you are younger its cause you think they are wiser , have more experience etc . when you get older , you realise its because they have had more experience in munipulation in order to get what they want , not because they are trying to look after every body . younger people allow the older people to rule . by the time most of us realise this we have acheived our security blanket and now become like them , not really considering or caring about how the 20 year old is going to get by conformiong to my 40++ rules that suit me . who has more to lose ??? easy the 20's somethings , if the older ones dont get thier way they will be alright , the younger ones need to bring back the passion and rule .

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by flappist

Exactly.

The young have the power and the passion and nothing to lose.

Older have responsibilities and have to compromise.

e.g.
Young single person loses their job. No money for a short while. Has to drink cheaper beer and rent weekly DVDs rather than new releases. Daily SMS sent reduces to 3 figures for a while.

Older married person loses job. Wife and children need to eat etc. School costs. House needs to be paid for.

Flappist I am confused from being over worked, over taxed and financiially stretched to my limits, so please talk slowly.

You are saying that Gen Y should take all of the risks because they have little to lose.

You then go on to say that old people have more responsibilities so therefore have to compromise and be less vocal, to save your job,etc.

I feel that this second statement represents Gen X ( people of my age) with their massive mortgages ( compared to what a baby boomer had to fork out for their first home) and high cost of bringing up kids, not the Baby boomers, who have already paid off their mortgages and put there kids through school,etc, and now have an empty nest and lots of free income to buy Landcruisers and 30 foot long caravans.

That being the case, why isn't the burden of responsibilty for standing up for the stupidity in the way we are over governed and over legislated shared by both the Boomers and Gen Y?

After all, there are heaps of issues that affect all generations and people my age are too busy running around trying to keep our jobs and our heads above water to help you guys out too much.

After all, you old buggers have nothing better to do than hold us mortgage payers up while drive along annoying the **** out of everyone ( in Landcruiser with van attached) at 20KPH under the speed limit during work hours.

Why dont you guys wave the flag in a two pronged attack. Go and protest about the cost of living, or the flash for cash revenue raisers rather than simply lump it ALL on the poor little Gen Y sissies?

[Chopped]

Soon the Baby Boomers will drift off into retirement and the Gen X & Y pick up the Pension and Aged Care tab. These Baby Boomers will most likely live it up and spend every last cent that they have so no inheritance for you GenX or Y (even though BB's got one!!). This will be a MASSIVE burden on the remaining tax payers of this country, they will try the old "I paid taxes all of my life, I deserve it" attitude but do they ?.

Flappist is right, look out for your own interests and to hell with others. Gen X and Gen Y should follow the BB example and making sure changes are made NOW to protect our own interests in the future. The pension will not be around for us to benefit from, the government will expect us to live of our Super till we die.

Let's drop the pension, replace it with vouchers and bring back FREE UNIVERSITY.

Is this sarcasm ?!

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by buggo_gt

I beleive that, generally, the laws aimed at young people are for our benifit. Would you want your childs first car to be a 260Kw V8 or high performance turbo? 6's of the last decade (AU 172Kw, BA 182Kw, BF 190Kw, FG 195KW, VE 210Kw)are more than powerful enough to be fast and fun. And while they have similar power to V8s of the mid - late 90's, these cars are a lot safer with airbags, improved crush zones ect, while being better on fuel, a win win. This law will also be more relevent in the coming years as the price of BF and FG 8's and T6's, with well over 300Kw, and the ever common hoon mobile Holden and HSV V8's drops to within reach of teenagers. Not to mention the STIs and EVOs with 5 sec 0-100 times come below $15k. And eventually they will.

Why should the government have a say in what I can purchase and drive with my own money? I think the parents can take responsibility for their "Child" (who by the time is on their Ps here in Victoria, is 18, which means they can legally drink, smoke, serve their country and vote), who should be old enough to know that abusing ANY car can easily lead them to an early grave.

Why should I be punished, because some moron decided to wrap his car with the "big bad V8" around a tree and kill his passengers, what ever happened to people being accountable for their own actions? At school when ever we acted up and come up with an excuse, the teacher would tell us we were accountable for our own actions, or "If he asked you to jump off a cliff, would you?" The Government should be happy if we buy cars with big engines, they get more money off us in fuel exise and GST when we go to the bowser.

Well just because I want a V8 and I'm a P plater, doesn't make me dangerous to myself does it?

America doesn't have this restriction, either does the UK.

Also for the record, in 2009 I had saved up enough $$$ through WORK to buy a new car without any finance or help from my parents, its sitting in my driveway as we speak, though its now a year old. I believe I don't fit this stereotype of 7 credit cards and new car on finance. I also have a PS3 and 32" TV, but that was payed without credit card, haha.

I hold down two jobs for all of this, why can't I drive what I like?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Craiginmackay

Flappist I am confused from being over worked, over taxed and financiially stretched to my limits, so please talk slowly.

You are saying that Gen Y should take all of the risks because they have little to lose.

You then go on to say that old people have more responsibilities so therefore have to compromise and be less vocal, to save your job,etc.

I feel that this second statement represents Gen X ( people of my age) with their massive mortgages ( compared to what a baby boomer had to fork out for their first home) and high cost of bringing up kids, not the Baby boomers, who have already paid off their mortgages and put there kids through school,etc, and now have an empty nest and lots of free income to buy Landcruisers and 30 foot long caravans.

That being the case, why isn't the burden of responsibilty for standing up for the stupidity in the way we are over governed and over legislated shared by both the Boomers and Gen Y?

After all, there are heaps of issues that affect all generations and people my age are too busy running around trying to keep our jobs and our heads above water to help you guys out too much.

After all, you old buggers have nothing better to do than hold us mortgage payers up while drive along annoying the **** out of everyone ( in Landcruiser with van attached) at 20KPH under the speed limit during work hours.

Why dont you guys wave the flag in a two pronged attack. Go and protest about the cost of living, or the flash for cash revenue raisers rather than simply lump it ALL on the poor little Gen Y sissies?

Ok to make it a bit more clear.

EVERYONE is responsible for themselves and society in general.

To give an example of what I trying to explore.

P Plate: 1 yr then 3 yr then no V8, then night curfew (but only if you are under 25)
M Plate (mature drivers).....they ran away screaming in fear.

Alcopop tax: (primarily the domain of the sub 30s) $300,000,000 in the first few months.
Change the tax on wine or beer....yeh right...running and screaming again.

GovCo are constantly looking for ways to extract money from us. Divide and conquor has been the easy path since before Sun Tsu

Some groups are easy because they just take it.......I am trying to point this out in the hope that a few might realise that they are being unfairly hammered and do something about it.

[JC807]

if voting wasn't compulsory, then the candidates wouldn't have to keep trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator and perhaps be voted in on real issues instead.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by Chopped

Soon the Baby Boomers will drift off into retirement and the Gen X & Y pick up the Pension and Aged Care tab. These Baby Boomers will most likely live it up and spend every last cent that they have so no inheritance for you GenX or Y (even though BB's got one!!). This will be a MASSIVE burden on the remaining tax payers of this country, they will try the old "I paid taxes all of my life, I deserve it" attitude but do they ?.

Flappist is right, look out for your own interests and to hell with others. Gen X and Gen Y should follow the BB example and making sure changes are made NOW to protect our own interests in the future. The pension will not be around for us to benefit from, the government will expect us to live of our Super till we die.

Let's drop the pension, replace it with vouchers and bring back FREE UNIVERSITY.

Is this sarcasm ?!

disagree with this statement , the BB'S were collective and stood up for all of thier generation . when they were young !!!! when you getr old and comfortable you resign to authority and want to leave it to others .
the gen x's ( me ) wrongly thought that we would inherit the lifestyle they created, govts attacked collective and created casualisation , and then contractors, and then individualism , whilst cleverly leaving the boomers pension entitlements etc alone , gen xr's saw the erosion and demise and took plan "b"( investments and business ) with a look after me attitude as prices are rising , this was possible , but changed the world into individualism , the gen y's grow up , take a look and decide F this , i'm F'D before i start.
the tide does need to turn and gen Y have to do it X's Are still in debt .
i guess ultimately THE BB's are to blame , as they were paid out ( hush money ) redundancies with promeses of casual employment in later years as well and then the pension as well , the gen x's wrongfully thought the same would be the case for them but then no one stood up when the game plan changed for the x's the LIBS got in with a GST and then indavidualism ( work choices) which prometed small business and investment at the cost of security , permenent work , and collective . the transission have left GEN Y with the DUD stick . time to start whipping it .
a GOOD PLACE TO START _ ( BIG BUSINESS AND CASUALISATION ) BRING BACK THE CONTRACTOR RULE _ YOU WORK ON MY SITE YOU GET PAID WHAT I GET PAID , YOU WORK TO OUR RULES NOT YOUR OWN >

[4bbl]

Originally Posted by flappist

Ok to make it a bit more clear.

EVERYONE is responsible for themselves and society in general.

To give an example of what I trying to explore.

P Plate: 1 yr then 3 yr then no V8, then night curfew (but only if you are under 25)
M Plate (mature drivers).....they ran away screaming in fear.

Alcopop tax: (primarily the domain of the sub 30s) $300,000,000 in the first few months.
Change the tax on wine or beer....yeh right...running and screaming again.

GovCo are constantly looking for ways to extract money from us. Divide and conquor has been the easy path since before Sun Tsu

Some groups are easy because they just take it.......I am trying to point this out in the hope that a few might realise that they are being unfairly hammered and do something about it.

hard to fight when these things are all deamed or justified as anti-social behaviour

[Franco Cozzo]

I'm looking into getting a petition signed (ooh, a piece of paper) with lots of names, trying to get that no V8 claused changed and back to power to weight ratio and capacity to weight, would anyone here be interested in putting a name down (includes all you full licensed drivers).

Who would I adress and write letters/send petitions to? Victorian premier and VicRoads? I'm going to write up a little essay comparing older cars with 8 cylinder plus engines compared to todays 6s and point out how the new rules are illogical with the removal of power to weight ratio, making quicker cars now legal.

I might post it here but P plater threads turn into world war three and get closed anyway. This could be interesting because we could threaten not to vote for their party in the upcoming state election, and this vote is going to include the latest of generation Y into the polls.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

disagree with this statement , the BB'S were collective and stood up for all of thier generation . when they were young !!!! when you getr old and comfortable you resign to authority and want to leave it to others .
the gen x's ( me ) wrongly thought that we would inherit the lifestyle they created, govts attacked collective and created casualisation , and then contractors, and then individualism , whilst cleverly leaving the boomers pension entitlements etc alone , gen xr's saw the erosion and demise and took plan "b"( investments and business ) with a look after me attitude as prices are rising , this was possible , but changed the world into individualism , the gen y's grow up , take a look and decide F this , i'm F'D before i start.
the tide does need to turn and gen Y have to do it X's Are still in debt .
i guess ultimately THE BB's are to blame , as they were paid out ( hush money ) redundancies with promeses of casual employment in later years as well and then the pension as well , the gen x's wrongfully thought the same would be the case for them but then no one stood up when the game plan changed for the x's the LIBS got in with a GST and then indavidualism ( work choices) which prometed small business and investment at the cost of security , permenent work , and collective . the transission have left GEN Y with the DUD stick . time to start whipping it .
a GOOD PLACE TO START _ ( BIG BUSINESS AND CASUALISATION ) BRING BACK THE CONTRACTOR RULE _ YOU WORK ON MY SITE YOU GET PAID WHAT I GET PAID , YOU WORK TO OUR RULES NOT YOUR OWN >

Damn - this thread just got ruined

[Chopped]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

disagree with this statement , the BB'S were collective and stood up for all of thier generation . when they were young !!!! when you getr old and comfortable you resign to authority and want to leave it to others .
the gen x's ( me ) wrongly thought that we would inherit the lifestyle they created, govts attacked collective and created casualisation , and then contractors, and then individualism , whilst cleverly leaving the boomers pension entitlements etc alone , gen xr's saw the erosion and demise and took plan "b"( investments and business ) with a look after me attitude as prices are rising , this was possible , but changed the world into individualism , the gen y's grow up , take a look and decide F this , i'm F'D before i start.
the tide does need to turn and gen Y have to do it X's Are still in debt .
i guess ultimately THE BB's are to blame , as they were paid out ( hush money ) redundancies with promeses of casual employment in later years as well and then the pension as well , the gen x's wrongfully thought the same would be the case for them but then no one stood up when the game plan changed for the x's the LIBS got in with a GST and then indavidualism ( work choices) which prometed small business and investment at the cost of security , permenent work , and collective . the transission have left GEN Y with the DUD stick . time to start whipping it .
a GOOD PLACE TO START _ ( BIG BUSINESS AND CASUALISATION ) BRING BACK THE CONTRACTOR RULE _ YOU WORK ON MY SITE YOU GET PAID WHAT I GET PAID , YOU WORK TO OUR RULES NOT YOUR OWN >

A bit of tongue and check from me !

Baby Boomer rules for Baby Boomer Business owners, controlled by Baby Boomer Governments.

To change that would mean massive social unrest (like what we saw with the BB gen).
Is this the way each new generation should behave ?
Do we have to go through all that crap again ?
Do baby boomers really want the younger generations to treat them with contempt as they did to the Builder Generation. ?

[grandpa_spec_F6]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I'm looking into getting a petition signed (ooh, a piece of paper) with lots of names, trying to get that no V8 claused changed and back to power to weight ratio and capacity to weight, would anyone here be interested in putting a name down (includes all you full licensed drivers).

Who would I adress and write letters/send petitions to? Victorian premier and VicRoads?

I live in QLD and I'm 2 months from being able to drive my V8 that I bought a few months ago, don't know if it would help but I'd love to sign it!

What I find is that there is always a way of turning a protest into a round of "this is exactially what we are talking about". Say I wanted to protest the banning of high performance vehicles, went and sat my car along with a bunch of other high powered cars outside parliament, they would label us all "hoons", claim we are the ones raising the road toll and heaven forbid if someone decided to do a burnout, they would merely use it to reinforce their point through some skewed sort of logic.

They would surely use that as another reason for the "breakdown of society and the family unit" ideology that the powers at hand so desperatly cling onto.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Damn - this thread just got ruined

no it hasnt . this isnt a political thread , these things still exist today under either govt .
its not political its about GEN Y.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by 4bbl

hard to fight when these things are all deamed or justified as anti-social behaviour

Deemed by whom?

20 years ago gay and lesbian lifestyles were a criminal offence.
20 years ago duck hunting with an automatic weapon was perfectly normal.
Prior to the Melbourne Olympics the Olympic event that is now clay target was actually shooting live pidgeons.

A young person is not a good driver, punish all young people....an old person is not a good driver, well that is life....

Young people drink, add a tax to their grog.....old people drink, well that is just life...

Again....Deemed by whom?

The media? No they just like stirring the pot (sort of like me in this thread).
The "experts" (including the monday ones of course)? Well they just push their agenda and use the media to popularise it.

It is important for well being that you are not the worst so in order to not be the worst you have to be better than someone else. Basic psychology.

GovCo know this and play on some groups so they feel they are better than other groups and the lower groups should be controlled.

I had a V8 on Ps and have had more than one time when the world was spinning after a couple of light shandies. I am still alive...

Which actually makes me think of how the world has changed.

I once met Gough Whitlam at the Miners Arms Hotel in Torbanlea while he was on a whistle stop tour. I was about 12 years old and in the front bar of a Hotel with the Prime Minister of Australia and I personally saw him drink 3 pots of heavy beer while talking with the union reps of the local miners.
Media was there (drinking too) as were various coppers and security.

Would that be deemed or justified as anti-social behaviour?

Bit of a change from Abbott and his beer tinged lemonade....

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by grandpa_spec_au

I live in QLD and I'm 2 months from being able to drive my V8 that I bought a few months ago, don't know if it would help but I'd love to sign it!

What I find is that there is always a way of turning a protest into a round of "this is exactially what we are talking about". Say I wanted to protest the banning of high performance vehicles, went and sat my car along with a bunch of other high powered cars outside parliament, they would label us all "hoons", claim we are the ones raising the road toll and heaven forbid if someone decided to do a burnout, they would merely use it to reinforce their point through some skewed sort of logic.

They would surely use that as another reason for the "breakdown of society and the family unit" ideology that the powers at hand so desperatly cling onto.

Any extra name on there is a help, so certainly, I appreciate it. Already, one person on my side

You know what would be funny, if you had 100 or so people, you protest, do what ever, nothing happens, book meetings with the people in power, fill up their days for weeks on end with the same thing day in day out, session by session.

[grandpa_spec_F6]

While that would be fantastic, most people either work fulltime or don't have the time to ever do this sort of thing, which is why there rarely is a protest. Gen Y, while uni / tafe may not consume all their time, still work, still want to do well at their studies and really in the end, just want to get a decent start to life.

Before I got my current job I was going through hell because my work decided to cut my hours from 24 a week to just 8. Needless to say, text books aren't cheap, transport to and from uni isn't cheap even if it is public, and taking a vegemite sandwitch every single day for lunch really isn't that appealing after a while.

If some of us had the drive to protest, if I'd had the money to protest, they are all "what if" questions for sure, but the trap there is that now I am working full time, I don't have 'time' to protest without either using up all my holiday pay or getting fired for not attending work.

[Mr Hardware]

ageism, the new racism.

Originally Posted by Dictionary.com

rac·ism   /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ [rey-siz-uhm]
–noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

Change 'races' to 'age-groups' and you'll see flappist is as bigoted as they get

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by grandpa_spec_au

While that would be fantastic, most people either work fulltime or don't have the time to ever do this sort of thing, which is why there rarely is a protest. Gen Y, while uni / tafe may not consume all their time, still work, still want to do well at their studies and really in the end, just want to get a decent start to life.

Before I got my current job I was going through hell because my work decided to cut my hours from 24 a week to just 8. Needless to say, text books aren't cheap, transport to and from uni isn't cheap even if it is public, and taking a vegemite sandwitch every single day for lunch really isn't that appealing after a while.

If some of us had the drive to protest, if I'd had the money to protest, they are all "what if" questions for sure, but the trap there is that now I am working full time, I don't have 'time' to protest without either using up all my holiday pay or getting fired for not attending work.

Maybe do it on a weekend? We've just come up with the idea, protest isn't on the agenda yet haha, I'd get fired for not showing up to work as well. I'm working on points for an essay, but the hamster on the wheel up stairs in my head is a bit tired at the moment haha. I need to get myself fired up and angry on the topic first before my best work comes out.

[buggo]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Why should the government have a say in what I can purchase and drive with my own money? I think the parents can take responsibility for their "Child" (who by the time is on their Ps here in Victoria, is 18, which means they can legally drink, smoke, serve their country and vote), who should be old enough to know that abusing ANY car can easily lead them to an early grave.

Why should I be punished, because some moron decided to wrap his car with the "big bad V8" around a tree and kill his passengers, what ever happened to people being accountable for their own actions? At school when ever we acted up and come up with an excuse, the teacher would tell us we were accountable for our own actions, or "If he asked you to jump off a cliff, would you?" The Government should be happy if we buy cars with big engines, they get more money off us in fuel exise and GST when we go to the bowser.

Well just because I want a V8 and I'm a P plater, doesn't make me dangerous to myself does it?

America doesn't have this restriction, either does the UK.

Also for the record, in 2009 I had saved up enough $$$ through WORK to buy a new car without any finance or help from my parents, its sitting in my driveway as we speak, though its now a year old. I believe I don't fit this stereotype of 7 credit cards and new car on finance. I also have a PS3 and 32" TV, but that was payed without credit card, haha.

I hold down two jobs for all of this, why can't I drive what I like?

I am not saying I agree with the p-plate restrictions, I am just saying I understand where they are coming from, and preparing for the next decade of second hand cars.
In the last 10 years, 6cyl cars are just as, if not much more powerful than the V8s of the 90's. What if this trend continues? 2020 Falcon XT with 250+Kw and XR8 with 350+Kw. It is 2030 and these cars are worth less than $10k. And I agree completly the restriction (if we must have one at all) should be based on power/weight, not No. of cylinders or the fact a 100Kw 4cyl has a low boost turbo. But that could be too hard for police to memorise, or access a handbook on the fly to see what car is what. And any mods throw that out the window anyway.
I have a BA XR6, while I would love an XR8, I don't think I am being punished. Driving isn't a right, rather a priveledge. You don't start a new job as the boss, do you. You have to earn that position, through proving yourself in your efforts and of course time.
You reference America, do you really want them as role models to develop our country? I don't.
And as for that last point you made, I'm not sure if that is directed at me?
I also work as well as doing my HSC this year and have an XR6, a big Plasma in my room, with surround sound, xbox, $2500 laptop, good clothes, a social life and emergency money if something ever comes up with no finance.

[sarrge2001]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

ageism, the new racism.

Change 'races' to 'age-groups' and you'll see flappist is as bigoted as they get

Pffft.....

He is generating a healthy discussion based on the premise that his generation protested to change things whereas todays generation doesn't.

And he's right

BUT

The issues are waaaay different. His generation protested about sending kids off to war, about legalising homosexuality, about civil rights for blacks (i'm talking globally here), about legalising abortion. Is the inability to drive a V8 for a few years or pay an extra $2.50 for a drink as serious.

I don't think it's as much an issue about the generations as it is about the difference in issues. Yes people come on here and complain but really, is it such an imposition?? Compared to "hey, it's your birthday....and you're going to Vietnam" or "hey, you're the wrong colour to come into this bar"

Damn sure if i was 20 and they wanted to shoot at me i'd be out protesting, but not driving a V8???.......nah.

Whether it was the 40's, 60's, 80's or now, times change, issues change but underneath it all, kids are kids are kids. As someone in here said, bring in conscription for Afganistan and watch people protest!