Run your car with water?? - Page 3

bob 351 · 10-06-2008, 10:23 AM

did anybody see the story on the guy,s that are using water thingy last night

BeStRaFe · 10-06-2008, 10:28 AM

yep, they are using it as a addition to the petrol system...

funny though, sdid you see how much the guys "mate" used.. it was upto 14L! for a 100km round trip... they must have been pushing it :P

**aussiblue** · 14-06-2008, 01:40 AM

Ok the car already battery produces hydrogen gas while charging - why not just use that to add to the mix?

Rastus · 14-06-2008, 11:01 AM

Just noted that this has been reported in today's media.....
car runs on water

DoreSlamR · 14-06-2008, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rastus

Just noted that this has been reported in today's media.....
car runs on water

More on this here

And a video of the car

**aussiblue** · 15-06-2008, 01:45 AM

I'll be watching http://www.genepax.co.jp/en/company/ with interest.

XlR8TED · 15-06-2008, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crrrock

*sigh*
Show of hands please.....
Who's not interested if they're only going to save $50 a week?

COMMSIRAC, would you be interested to come for a run to Sydney and back in my Canter? (about 350k's one way) One way on diesel, the return on my HHO assist, and then you can come and make an informed post for all the members.

and.... isn't this only a scam if I'm trying to sell you something that doesn't work?
All I'm offering is the information, FOR FREE, to anyone who only wants to save $50 a week. LMAO.

crrrock

I'm going to call this bluff.

Where are you located? I will gladly come and act as a third party witness to your claims. All I see on youtube though, is a high school science experiment. How what you've got there translates into fuel savings I'd like to see.

Darkr · 15-06-2008, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crrrock

*sigh*
Show of hands please.....
Who's not interested if they're only going to save $50 a week?

Not me mate, sounds like a crrrock.

I could state my reasons, but I don't want to flare this up too much more.

chevypower · 15-06-2008, 08:49 AM

It's time for no more talk and somebody just needs to try it and report back on here.

mik · 15-06-2008, 12:24 PM

some one has finally done it by the look of it, its a little different from the conventional make your own hydrogen and run it like lpg set up, somehow use hydrogen to generate electricity and run the vehicle like an electric car, it just remains to be seen what government will allow the the company to patent it and put the oil companies out of business......check this out.
http://gizmodo.com/5016343/genepax-u...-water-and-air

mik · 15-06-2008, 12:25 PM

opps repost...:(

mik · 15-06-2008, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRSex

I'm going to call this bluff.

Where are you located? I will gladly come and act as a third party witness to your claims. All I see on youtube though, is a high school science experiment. How what you've got there translates into fuel savings I'd like to see.

be carefull you might lose your shirt.

XlR8TED · 16-06-2008, 06:49 PM

I'm confident I won't.

Have you seen the youtube clip? A science experiment on the back of a ute. He's making Hydrogen sure...but that's it. It's just filling up a beer bottle. How does he collect it, store it & then use it in his car? No video evidence for any of that.

That link you posted is of a complete running car...which seems to be a long way off what this bloke has.

That all said, I'm giving him the chance to back up his claims and will gladly go out and see it. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it...

As an aside, assume this thing works & it starts being put into cars - we don't have enough water for people to drink/wash in let alone run cars with. Water restrictions in a lot of places these days.

CROC4D · 16-06-2008, 10:22 PM

[QUOTE=XRSex] How does he collect it, store it & then use it in his car? No video evidence for any of that.QUOTE]

There is no collection or storage of the gas, it is made on demand and used immediatley.

XlR8TED · 17-06-2008, 12:33 AM

How?

Show us with another Youtube clip.

scottmeister · 17-06-2008, 01:51 AM

Say you use 250mL of water on a trip. 250g/18g-mol = ~13.9mol. Thats approximately 13.9mol of H2 gas consumed, assuming your electrolysis is extremely efficient, which it most definitely is not. Hydrogen gas burns in pure oxygen with the release of 286kJ/mol, or approx. 143kJ/g, almost three times as much as petrol per gram.

Say a car uses 60L of petrol in 400km. At about 737.2g/L, thats about 44.23kg of petrol burned, at about 45MJ/kg = ~1990MJ. What is being said, as far as I can acertain, is that out of a total of around 1990MJ, the ~3.8MJ of Hydrogen you burn allows the efficiency of the engine to increase from 25-30% to 50%+. That's what is being proposed, essentially, in order to get the claimed increase in fuel economy you so readily point out. Increase in combustion efficiency effects, sure, viable. Catalytic? Go read some journals. Maybe a slight effect, I'm sure, with proper tuning and such, will have a mild effect on engine efficiency. BUT I'd love to know, as would all the engineers who design and test otto-cycle and diesel engines everyday, just how you can increase efficiency with NO large increase in flame temperature, NO increase in compression ratio, and no A/F adjustments to suit the oxidation-happy Hydrogen.

I'm a believer in a direct hydrogen engine- once generation, storage and logistics issues are ironed out, it could well make a great alternative to petrol...advancement and minor redesign of the IC engine is all that is needed for emissions issues- not ridiculously impractical/expensive/inefficient/still environmentally destructive energy cells/batteries. Hydrogen fuel cells, also, could be the way. Regardless, I wish all this "water powered car" crap would stop being propagated...it only serves to further misinform society. I'm pretty sure theres a reason car manufacturerers don't/won't/didn't/laughed at the whole notion of hydrogen aided petrol. Why bother? If you're concerned about your emissions/consumption, get a good LPG system. If you can't afford petrol every week, sell your car. Buy a bike.

kpcart · 17-06-2008, 05:15 AM

all those youtube videos about HHO powered cars seem very suspicious, they never actually show the proof that its running on water, they just show a car running, and a camera pointing to a technical devise that normal people cant tell what it is or how its working, or if it even is really connected to the car.
this crokkk guy also seems a bit suspicious, especially how he refers all questioners to his youtube vids which dont prove anything. ask for more specific photos etc, he wont answer i bet. will he come good on his offer to drive with him in the car?? i doubt it.
hes probably getting an increase in his fuel economy because of his driving technique, and perhaps his figue of 41% is just a figment of his imagination, no real data to support it. that one big website about running your car on water suggests a saving of 20-95% in costs, thats quite a big inconsistency, and strangely they offer a 56?? day garuntee (most companies offer a round number like 60) and also the company doesnt have a mailing adress and are just plain bogus, they havent updated their site in months, the offer they have which expired in May is still available to be bought (still available to put your hard earned money into a scammers bank account).
crokkk you need to produce much more facts then your measily words, and your name calling to get any sane individual to fall for your scam.

mik · 17-06-2008, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRSex

How?

Show us with another Youtube clip.

this one looks pretty good, http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=A0T7Oph_RYg&NR=1,
however you dont see it reving hard, but surley with more plates and electricity it should produce more gas. i`m tempted to have a go at this myself.

crrrock · 17-06-2008, 10:44 PM

*sigh*

in the mean time, educate yourselves....

http://pesn.com/2007/09/29/9500450_B...r_Plans/d9.pdf
This guy ran a slant 6 chrysler for 1000 MILES on HHO. Admittedly, up on blocks, but from idle to 60 mph, on blocks, for 1000 miles.
He also raced boats using HHO as fuel.

OK, here's the drill.
Pay attention, cause I'll say this only once.

The "suspicious device" on my U tube video surely is only a high school science experiment, producing "hydroxy" or "Browns Gas" (named after Yull Brown, the Australian discoverer).
The 400ml of gas shown being displaced into the beer bottle was piped, via a piece of garden hose, into the inlet snorkel of the Canter.
Very scientific.
Are you all following me so far ??
OK.
So, this HHO (electrolysis of water produces Hydrogen Hydrogen and Oxygen) burns at a rate much greater than atomised petrol or diesel.
NOTE: Atomised, not vapourised.
When ignited, the rapid flash, somewhere around 8 to 10 times faster than petrol, causes the atomised fuel to have a more complete combustion.
This more complete combustion delivers more power.
Because more power is delivered for a given pedal setting, you will now ride the pedal somewhat less, thus consuming less fossil fuel.

Maybe this Ford dealer has something to offer??
http://www.kalb.com/index.php/news/a...-mileage/8883/

Now, I dunno if Scottmeister is right or not with his mols of gas and joules per gram of water and all the scientific stuff.
The electrolysis container that you saw on my U tube, when fitted to the Canter, improved my consumption from 22ltrs/100 down to 13 ltrs/100.

I don't quite understand what makes SRSEX the adjudicator in this, or any other matter.
I told you my results, and if I replicate them to satisfy his thirst for knowledge, why on earth would any of you believe him??
Maybe I bribed him with the promise of a new car each year??

But.....
To pacify all of the uninformed and non believers here, I will submit to a test run.

ATM the canter is up for a new thrust race, and as soon as thats done, you're welcome, one and all, to bring your petrol guzzlers on an economy demo run to, lets say, Canberra and back, about a 250km round trip from my place.

Oh yes.... you can all chip in for the one way run that's NOT using the Hydroxy, and I alone will pay for the return "economy" part of the trip.

my mobile is 0428 846203
I'm in Boorowa, on the Lachlan Valley Way, NSW, about 125k's (ish) from Canberra centre.

But please, NO tyre kickers.
Read up and be informed before you come.

crrrock

PS:
MIK, I'll help you with any technical knowledge that I can, if you're keen.

PPS:
Francois Isaac De Rivaz (Google him) is credited with the first internal combustion engine in 1807.
YES, 1807.
But hey, whaddya know, he ran it on HHO.
How 'bout that.

crrrock · 17-06-2008, 11:04 PM

Mik,
I just watched the one from above...
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=A0T7Oph_RYg&NR=1,

at my girl's house, without a sound card, so I couldn't hear.
Don't get confused with a Joe Cell..
it's different, but does produce some hydroxy.
Google "Joe's Cell" if you need education, but have an open mind.

On a different track...
you shouldn't be using vacuum to try and produce more hydroxy.
Placing vacuum on a liquid helps it to boil or vapourise at a lower temperature, and you don't want water vapour in your engine at this time, you want HHO only.

Depending on the construction of a HHO cell, part of the voltage goes to produce heat, and it's a balancing act to get HHO without excess heat.
This is because as the electrolyte heats up the resistance lowers and it draws more amps, producing more gas but also more heat.
You get current runaway.
There is a lot of stuff to learn...

crrrock

mik · 18-06-2008, 03:11 AM

thanks crrrock much appreciated, there seems to be quiet a few that have also had a go at this with varying results, i have some ideas, if its ok i`ll pm you on the weekend and you can set me straight and probably have a laugh at the time if thats ok.
cheers Mik

lilmattie · 18-06-2008, 01:49 PM

Funny how much talk there is about hydrogen and water driven engines nowadays...

I've just read the thread, but I might have missed it a few things - apologies if I'm repeating other posts but are we talking about a 'replacement' to petrol or a 'supplement' to increase how much mileage we get per tank?

I for one don't think the process of seperating hydrogen from tap water and using hydrogen by itself is possible - so I don't believe you can fill up your tank with a garden hose. You put too much energy into the process to extract the too little hydrogen out. So you're using a large amount of energy to create a small amount. But in my ignorance, I don't understand why it wouldn't work if it were being used as an additive to the petrol... I'm also interested whether crrrocks research makes any difference to fuel consumption.

Like I said, I don't know anything technical at all. I'm just interested and enjoying the reading.

Hurry up with the TEST already. I can hardly wait to see the results.

Laminge · 18-06-2008, 05:49 PM

Here is something of interest

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1AUEYssry0

lilmattie · 18-06-2008, 05:56 PM

Quick correction

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilmattie

Funny how much talk there is about hydrogen and water driven engines nowadays...

I've just read the thread, but I might have missed it a few things - apologies if I'm repeating other posts but are we talking about a 'replacement' to petrol or a 'supplement' to increase how much mileage we get per tank?

I for one don't think the process of seperating hydrogen from tap water and using hydrogen by itself is not possible - so I don't believe you can fill up your tank with a garden hose. You put too much energy into the process to extract the too little hydrogen out. So you're using a large amount of energy to create a small amount. But in my ignorance, I don't understand why it wouldn't work if it were being used as an additive to the petrol... I'm also interested whether crrrocks research makes any difference to fuel consumption.

Like I said, I don't know anything technical at all. I'm just interested and enjoying the reading.

Hurry up with the TEST already. I can hardly wait to see the results.

Bad Bird · 18-06-2008, 05:57 PM

The anchorlady makes a good point at the end. "If" we do use "water" as a fuel by using electricity to decompose it into hydrogen and water, surely the price of water will skyrocket.

XlR8TED · 18-06-2008, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottmeister

Say you use 250mL of water on a trip. 250g/18g-mol = ~13.9mol. Thats approximately 13.9mol of H2 gas consumed, assuming your electrolysis is extremely efficient, which it most definitely is not. Hydrogen gas burns in pure oxygen with the release of 286kJ/mol, or approx. 143kJ/g, almost three times as much as petrol per gram.

Say a car uses 60L of petrol in 400km. At about 737.2g/L, thats about 44.23kg of petrol burned, at about 45MJ/kg = ~1990MJ. What is being said, as far as I can acertain, is that out of a total of around 1990MJ, the ~3.8MJ of Hydrogen you burn allows the efficiency of the engine to increase from 25-30% to 50%+. That's what is being proposed, essentially, in order to get the claimed increase in fuel economy you so readily point out. Increase in combustion efficiency effects, sure, viable. Catalytic? Go read some journals. Maybe a slight effect, I'm sure, with proper tuning and such, will have a mild effect on engine efficiency. BUT I'd love to know, as would all the engineers who design and test otto-cycle and diesel engines everyday, just how you can increase efficiency with NO large increase in flame temperature, NO increase in compression ratio, and no A/F adjustments to suit the oxidation-happy Hydrogen.

I'm a believer in a direct hydrogen engine- once generation, storage and logistics issues are ironed out, it could well make a great alternative to petrol...advancement and minor redesign of the IC engine is all that is needed for emissions issues- not ridiculously impractical/expensive/inefficient/still environmentally destructive energy cells/batteries. Hydrogen fuel cells, also, could be the way. Regardless, I wish all this "water powered car" crap would stop being propagated...it only serves to further misinform society. I'm pretty sure theres a reason car manufacturerers don't/won't/didn't/laughed at the whole notion of hydrogen aided petrol. Why bother? If you're concerned about your emissions/consumption, get a good LPG system. If you can't afford petrol every week, sell your car. Buy a bike.

+1

Out of interest, Crrrock, say I turned up with my 'petrol guzzler', how do you plan on fitting this system to my car? With some diagrams please. If you can't produce that, I think we have our answer.

Nothing here makes me the adjudicator, I'm simply saying I think it's all BS & am asking to be proved wrong. Nothing you've said/shown has done that so far. Sigh all you want...

fiesta8u · 19-06-2008, 12:15 AM

maybe this would be better ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4RWd...eature=related

scottmeister · 19-06-2008, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laminge

Here is something of interest

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1AUEYssry0

"It burns, then turns straight back to water! See!"

"He has just patented his process of converting H20 to HH0 - A gas that combines the atomic power of hydrogen with the chemical stability of water."

"It blows holes straight through solid charcoal...3 seconds turns a glass ball to glowing!"

:

hypnodoc · 19-06-2008, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabba

Christopher Columbus was ridiculed and called a fool because he believed the world was round... The rest off the idiots believed our world was flat... It took Christopher Columbus a few years to prove his theory and the world was in fact round..

What is happening here is similar to what happened to CC... Here are some people that are trying to find a better alternative to burning fossil fuel, and then a lot off you are knocking his efforts.... With the way fuel prices are going I hope they do fined a cheap alternative that is easy, safe and clean to use....

Remember, without the backyard inventor, we would not have the car, internal combustion engine, the wheel, hills hoist, electricity and millions off other things we take for granted every day...

100% agree jabba. Australia, the land of the tall poppy syndrome and knockers. Heres a bloke trying to share some information, which is more than amply scientifically tenable and actually reasonably well used by a lot of people all over the planet, and he gets bashed for it. Although I don't agree with name calling, I can understand his frustration, and in this case 100% agree. As my old medical professor used to say. "If your critism can't be constructive SOD OFF.

:

crrrock · 19-06-2008, 08:25 PM

SRSex,
I wasn't planning on fitting my system to your car.
Being computer operated, you'd need an EFIE.
My offer was for a convoy of disbelievers to follow the canter and check the refueling was "all legal", etc.
But, if I can figure how to place a drawing on here, I'll gladly show you a fitment and wiring diagram that would suit your car.

Hypnodoc, thanks for the support. You're obviously a thinking man with an open mind.

Mik, send me a text message when you're ready and I'll let you know if I'm near the computer at the time.

I've started construction on 6 new units, for my 3 kids, 2 mates, and a spare.

crrrock