If this is a sign of trouble, then Ford Aus are in deep dodo

[boris]

Was looking at a 03 BA e-gas a couple of months ago 140,000kms, car lot wanted $15,000 nz for it, I said 'yeah right!' went down the road to turners picked up an late 05 BA2 petrol for $10,000 with 70,000km paid $5,000 for LPG injection, happy as a pig in S@#T!! Even on petrol it only cost $9 more to run a week than our 2000 mazda mpv 2.5 v6. Now about three or for other guys at work have bought falcons cause they are 3 or 4 grand cheaper than commodores. Mine was cheaper than a mondeo of similar age and kms, people I know ask how much? I tell them and they don't believe it, they are a bargin!! Even a few holden guys are lookin at them becuse they are so cheap, I never seen so many fords at work!! I'm holding onto mine for at least 7yrs, I'll get my moneys worth. The tide seems to be turning as far as public opinion is concernd around here any way!

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Mercury 8

Geez mate how many more posts can you bag Ford in.Since you don't drive a Ford any more or thinking of buying one it might be time to build a bridge.Lifes to short.

Unlikely to buy a new one but have no issues buying a second hand one. The dealer network is poor in my experience and would have to improve markedly for me to venture back. That may happen in the future, who knows.

I'd love to be able to walk into a Ford dealership in 3 years time and experience the same level of service I've received elsewhere and drive out in a new Ford. If I say nothing, how will Ford know things may need to improve?

[Wally]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Falcon / Commo poor resale is not new it's always been bad always will. Our fleet supliers actively discourage anyone buying a Ford or Holden for that reason. ...........i

Talking to a fellow businessman the other day and he's ordered quite a few Holden Sportswagons for his technicians and sales reps.

[Buddy 1]

Originally Posted by loltastic

Possibly the fact that they're riddled with problems. The FG is no different.

I have to say I had a 05 Territory & it had Many Issues ( mostly small things but rather Annoying) & some major Issues as well.

Then I Purchased a BFII XR6 Ute & I have not had any Issues with it at all apart from the Exhaust was touching the Body & making a Noise.

Ford fixed that no Problem.

Compared to the Territory the Falcon is a much Higher Quality vehicle (personal Experiance) just take a look at the Territory section & you will see Many Owners with the same Issues.

So the low resale is a Joke as the BF Falcons & in Particular the BFII's were well made.

And the Territory may be loved by Many Women however it is more of an effort to Drive, Park or perform U Turns in so the only plus for women is the amount of room inside & the fact they feel safer sitting up high.

And yes the Falcon is in trouble because of the Petrol prices in the most part however my Ute gets good Economy on the Hwy & not bad around town so you do not actually save that much in the end compared to a 4 cylinder & of course a Territory uses a fair bit more than a Falcon as it is 300 kilos heavier for a start.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by MR_SIDO

Alright, I am getting sick of people flaming dealers like this. I am a Dealer Principal and I can tell you that MOST Ford Dealers are working their guts out trying to make the dealer experience a positive one. To say "bad dealer network" to me is extremely offensive.

Unfortunatly like most things in business you cannot please everyone and every now and then you have some issues that reflect the dealer in a bad light. Its the old story, you will recieve 10 bad stories to 1 good one, why do you think the news is mostly bad? because no-one thrives on good stories, only bad ones.

Re-sale values are crap at the moment and most of the issue is to do with high new vehicle volume over the last 5 years and many low kilometre Falcons, Commodores, Aurions, Camry's and soon Corolla's coming back into the market. With Corolla selling 3000 per month, wait and see how many of these are back in the market in 3 - 4 years time, it will be a dollar a dozen. And the manufacturers couldn't give a rats.

Anyway, I would say that most of these words will be wasted on you guys as I am only a Ford Dealer, hey....what would I know?

Brilliant! Suggest you do some more reading before wading in.

There are some stories of brilliant service on here and that is a good thing to see. The down side is there are many stories of poor service.

In my personal experience, my list of poor service is as such.

BAI XR8

1 Complaint on 3 different services (45,000km covered) that the car was down on power and not idling well, 2 different service departments (due to change of state in which I live) and told each time it is my imagination. One even told me I should take to the highway and hold it flat all the way to 4th gear, which would equate to more than 160km/h at WOT (sure the cops would love that) all this so that I teach the ECU new tricks. Finally get annoyed and take it to dealer number 3, he finds it does not have a XR8 ECU fitted, new ECU and all is good.

2 Start up rattle, dealer denies there is an issue with timing chain tensioners and refuses to investigate under warranty, call to Ford CRC and the dealer changes his mind.

3 Rust in boot, dealer arranges repair under warranty, 6 months later it comes back.

4 Pick up car after having diff locating bush replaced, my Ipod that was in the console is missing, service department know nothing and refuse to do anything.

BAII GT auto

1 Service done, brakes inspected and reported as good on paperwork, 3000km later front pads are metal on metal. Dealer arranges a tow and receives a rocket from me. When I pick the car up I notice that the rock ape that worked on it has chipped the hell out of my wheels with a rattle gun.

2 Knocking sound in steering, fault found in ball joint on tie rods. Dealer claims that it can’t be fixed under warranty because the car has lowered suspension. Changed his mind when he found it was his sales team that lowered it as it used to be showroom stock.

3 Complaint of poor idle quality over numerous services, same response every time, no fault found. I can't stand it anymore so I changed the O2 sensors just in case it is them, smooth idle from then on.

4 Complaint of auto stuck in drive on a number of occasions but an intermittent problem. Left stuck at home a couple of times until the fault self rectifies, late for work once. Talk to service department and they say nothing can be done until it completely fails and until then it is too hard. It finally completely fails at great inconvenience to me, new transmission fitted.

5 Complaint of vibration and distortion from rear subwoofer on premium sound, service dept says it is fixed, new sub fitted. 2 days later the problem is back. I have a look and find the bits of foam stuck to the speaker has not worked. Take it back, ask to confirm it was replaced, they say of course it was, so I advised them the bits of foam on that brand new sub does not seem to be helping, replace it.

BFI Super Pursuit manual

1 Constant suspension squeaks, service says it is fixed and then a week later it squeaks again. After about 6 complaints someone finally works out there is a worn component in the leaf pack, problem solved.

2 Paint bubbling and peeling on plenum chamber, servicing say they have never seen this before. Lie, half the BOSS motors I have seen have bubbled paint somewhere on the plenum or rocker covers.

3 Intermittent problem of speedo not working, ask service department about it and they say it is too hard and not worth looking for. Their advice was to just put up with it and if it happens, pull over and re start to fix it. Annoyed I leave and a couple of weeks later whilst shifting from 4th-5th, I find out reverse lock out does not work when the speedo is not working (good thing I noticed it went into reverse and did not let out the clutch at 80km/h). Inform the service department and suddenly they find some enthusiasm, problem fixed.

4 Pick up the Ute after a service, incidentally a couple of days after we have had $1000 dollars worth of repair to the front bar. I washed the car the night before because I am so fussy and will not allow the service department to wash my car (standing instruction at service department of do not wash), I therefore know there are no scrapes on the front bar. Pick the car up and there is a huge scrape on the lower right side of the bar, visible from standing height. Ask the service advisor, she flatly denies it was them and argues with me that none of the boys would have done that. After much argument and me having to fight very hard to not blow a valve, she finally says "it was not one of our guys but we will repair it". I doubt they would repair it if they could prove it was not them. I am not after a free repair on old damage; proof of this is my car never went back, I arranged my own repair. That service department will never see my car again. Pity as they are my closest and most convenient.

In conclusion, yes there are some good service departments and my search for one continues. I am sick of crap quality of work and having to argue for everything.

But then again, I am only a customer that has bought a Ford every time for my last 4 cars, over $200,000 worth, what would I know?

By the way, I have not bought another since the Ute, last was a Mini and my next will not be an FG (Evolution X MR lancer looks good at this stage). We are keeping the Ute, but it will take some huge improvements in Ford quality control and service network for me to buy another Ford.

[Penelope Pitstop]

I work in commercial insurance and insure many high volume and medium sized fleets.

A lot of my clients are turning over and increasing their fleets and none of the ones that had Fords previously are sticking with them. I am seeing a lot of Mazda's and Toyotas coming through especially in the ute fleets. The Mazda BT50 diesel is way way popular at the moment.

Funnily enough the only client I have that has gone to FG has changed over from Holden Commodores.

Originally Posted by MR_SIDO

Anyway, I would say that most of these words will be wasted on you guys as I am only a Ford Dealer, hey....what would I know?

You know, as a business man I would have thought you would be trawling the forums reading all the problems that people are having and taking it on board... Learning from the bad experiences that your POTENTIAL customers have endured and ensuring that your sales, service and administration people are aware of the frustrations and disappointments that your POTENTIAL client base has received from COMPETITOR dealerships and brainstorming ways to rectify and be more pro active when dealing with such issues. Seems to me if you could nail this dedication to top level servicing you would be sitting on a GOLD MINE.

I work in sales and am, even if I say so myself, quite successful – my secret has always been to LISTEN to my clients. Especially since they are paying my wage through COMMISSION.

Anyway, I would say that most of these words will be wasted on you MR SIDO as I am only a Ford Customer, hey....what would I know?

[loltastic]

Wow - I've never seen so many problems with that many cars before, ever!

[MR_SIDO]

Originally Posted by Penelope Pitstop

I work in commercial insurance and insure many high volume and medium sized fleets.

A lot of my clients are turning over and increasing their fleets and none of the ones that had Fords previously are sticking with them. I am seeing a lot of Mazda's and Toyotas coming through especially in the ute fleets. The Mazda BT50 diesel is way way popular at the moment.

Funnily enough the only client I have that has gone to FG has changed over from Holden Commodores.


You know, as a business man I would have thought you would be trawling the forums reading all the problems that people are having and taking it on board... Learning from the bad experiences that your POTENTIAL customers have endured and ensuring that your sales, service and administration people are aware of the frustrations and disappointments that your POTENTIAL client base has received from COMPETITOR dealerships and brainstorming ways to rectify and be more pro active when dealing with such issues. Seems to me if you could nail this dedication to top level servicing you would be sitting on a GOLD MINE.

I work in sales and am, even if I say so myself, quite successful – my secret has always been to LISTEN to my clients. Especially since they are paying my wage through COMMISSION.

Anyway, I would say that most of these words will be wasted on you MR SIDO as I am only a Ford Customer, hey....what would I know?

You could not be further from the truth when you say that your words would be wasted on me, I read most of the issues on these forums and find myself looking at ways to improve, this is the heartland of the Ford enthusiest right here why would I not look at it? My customers are the lifeblood of my dealership and I will always listen, so thanks for your comment's, I love the passion on these forums. I just wish that us dealers were not pigeon holed as villians when most of us are trying to do the right thing, hence the reason for my post.

[Penelope Pitstop]

Originally Posted by MR_SIDO

You could not be further from the truth when you say that your words would be wasted on me, I read most of the issues on these forums and find myself looking at ways to improve, this is the heartland of the Ford enthusiest right here why would I not look at it? My customers are the lifeblood of my dealership and I will always listen, so thanks for your comment's, I love the passion on these forums. I just wish that us dealers were not pigeon holed as villians when most of us are trying to do the right thing, hence the reason for my post.

Granted I understand the whole villain thing - try working in insurance - we are always the bad guys too.

I know what its like to be disheartened by the constant bagging out of your industry - especially when you have a true passion for what you do.

Thing is that there are a lot of dealerships out there that stop caring once you sign the dotted line. I am unsure of how much involvement the Dealer Principal has when it comes to the day to day running of the Service Dept but in my opinion, and one that appears to be echoed by my fellow impassioned enthusiasts on this site, is that the servicing level and treatment is turning people away from upgrading or re-purchasing Fords.

I have purchased a large number of Fords in my time and always thought of myself as a dedicated Blue Blood. I have always upgraded to the new model without thinking about it. I have taken myself off to the local dealerships and looked at the new FG range and wanted to love them... however when I think about buying one - my thoughts immediately turn to fights over warranty, things breaking, falling off, being left stranded on the side of the road, being towed, desperately trying to organise a loan car because I have given 5 weeks notice even though my car was only in being serviced 2 days ago and is now not working again, having to ring FPV CRC after ever service to get them to talk to the service manager so that I can get things fixed... etc, etc. I feel depressed at the thought of buying yet another Ford and just can't bring myself to do it. I have owned 3 x FPV's and an XR6 in the last 4 years and seriously although I have loved the actual cars - I can't put myself through the gruelling ups and downs of keeping it on the road.

I will most likely go to a prestige car when it is time to upgrade - I will spend the money to get the personalised, professional service offered by these dealerships.

MR SIDO – if you are in Brisbane or in fact anywhere in South East Queensland or Northern New South Wales shoot me a PM – I am willing to travel if it means doing business with someone who gives a damn.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by MR_SIDO

I just wish that us dealers were not pigeon holed as villians when most of us are trying to do the right thing, hence the reason for my post.

I can tell you that not all dealers are "pidgeon holed as villains", in fact those that do the right thing for forum members get a lot of positive publicity and I assume flow on business. Those that give poor service, get a bad review and miss out on the business of those that are in the know.

As a dealer, you can only look after your own business, which it sounds like you are doing. Our point is it is time for Ford to start cracking down on those dealers that are not representing the Ford brand well and giving us the consumers a bad taste in our mouth, as well as a huge headache.

When I have terrible experience with 6 seperate dealers, I blame the manufacturer and my only defense is to change brand until I see an improvement. Until then I will love the FPV we have but will not consider another.

If I as a passionate motorist and an avid supporter of Ford (yes I will be dressed in blue tomorrow) feel this way to a point that will not at this stage buy another Ford, you have no hope of keeping the average buyer that does not have brand loyalty.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Oh dear... what has happened here. I think some dealers have become somewhat complacent in the last 5 years with the sheer volume they have been selling. Now that things have gone quiet (and they have) dealers are starting to panic and are probarly trying to change their ways... I just purchased a new FG and the transaction was rather simple, but then again i have a number of contacts in the Industry and buying a car for me is like buying a carton of stubbies, i dont really give a damn about how they treat me as long as A) I get a good deal, B) The cars what i want, not what they want to sell and C) The car they sell me is 100% perfect.

Different departments in dealerships can give customers different feelings, its hard for them to get it so the levels of service are the same from purchase till 10 years later when you want a rare spare part...

Tori, i dont believe the larger prestige franchises offer a great deal more then the likes of the smaller home brand dealers, our dealings at work with Motorline BMW have been less then good for example...

Is your bad experiences based on the service departments, or have the sales departments also let you down??

[Gobes32]

I am willing to put a flame suit on here and come straight out and suggest that Ford are not exactly fighting for fleet sales due to public image. Alright let me explain. From what I am told, there is bugger all profit in fleet sales. The fleet managers absolutely drag you over hot coals to get the best deal and so they should if they are buying 20 to 50 + cars. But with high volume comes an excess of base models at the end of lease terms generally two to three years after the release of that model. Territory owners have not suffered this as badly as BA/BF owners granted but its still worse than the european models. Holden however, I am told they are very good at fleet sales and their monthly sales reflect this. I think Ford Aus are aiming at low sales / high profit at the expense of volume. This is also reflected in the fact that most of Ford's small cars are not the cheapest in their class but are generally regarded as of better quality. VW does not sell a massive amount of Golf's each month compared to the Toyota Corolla but most people would suggest that the Golf is in the prestige hatchback market which gives them the low volume / high markup Ford one day hopes to emulate.

This all may sound stupid and totally off course but it is only an opinion and you should all bear in mind my lively hood depends on Ford Aus having a future so i hope they have SOMETHING in place.

[Penelope Pitstop]

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

Tori, i dont believe the larger prestige franchises offer a great deal more then the likes of the smaller home brand dealers, our dealings at work with Motorline BMW have been less then good for example...

Is your bad experiences based on the service departments, or have the sales departments also let you down??

Mostly the service departments - I bought my cars through Denmac and Steele always looked after me very well - would love to buy a car from Steele and Larry again. We don't get our car serviced with them though because it is an hour away from our home and work and Lynton had problems there with Gecko so he is reluctant to travel to them.

We use Motorline BMW to service the MINI and they are awesome. They are prompt, courteous, professional and not frightened about warranty work - in fact they pointed out stuff that should be fixed under warranty (warped bonnet scoop) and had already ordered one when we went in to pick up the car. Another time, we went to pick up the Mini and they were apologetic that it wasn't finished yet so they handed us the cars to a new BMW and said take this for the night - we will call you tomorrow when your Mini is ready. They have even offered to drop the MINI off at my work after the service is completed if that is easier for me - a little full on I admit and not what I expect nor need, but hows that for going above and beyond.

So far so good with BMW – this is how I expect to be treated – like my time, money and custom is not only respected but appreciated.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by acosta32

I am willing to put a flame suit on here and come straight out and suggest that Ford are not exactly fighting for fleet sales due to public image. Alright let me explain. From what I am told, there is bugger all profit in fleet sales. The fleet managers absolutely drag you over hot coals to get the best deal and so they should if they are buying 20 to 50 + cars. But with high volume comes an excess of base models at the end of lease terms generally two to three years after the release of that model. Territory owners have not suffered this as badly as BA/BF owners granted but its still worse than the european models. Holden however, I am told they are very good at fleet sales and their monthly sales reflect this. I think Ford Aus are aiming at low sales / high profit at the expense of volume. This is also reflected in the fact that most of Ford's small cars are not the cheapest in their class but are generally regarded as of better quality. VW does not sell a massive amount of Golf's each month compared to the Toyota Corolla but most people would suggest that the Golf is in the prestige hatchback market which gives them the low volume / high markup Ford one day hopes to emulate.

This all may sound stupid and totally off course but it is only an opinion and you should all bear in mind my lively hood depends on Ford Aus having a future so i hope they have SOMETHING in place.

Quality of sales versus quantity, has merit. I think the issue is can they hold out long enough to live out the reputation of being a fleet manufacturer and gain a reputation of selling quality cars to private buyers. They do not have the reputation yet and will not for quite a while yet.

The key to that reputation is quality cars that lead their class and value that extends to after sales service, lot of work there.

[Gobes32]

I only mention my theory because it seems to be the way Ford US is heading and it's how Alan Mulally got Boeing out of the pooh. Make less planes but make them better and charge better. It's obviously more complicated than that but I am a simple guy.

[geckoGT]

Like I said, has merit. I hope that is the way it is going, better quality, better service, less fleet sales and less cars on the used market = better resale. The winner is the small private use buyer (us). Let holden have all the fleet sales and we can have the better car that is worth more when we change for the new model, I would pay extra for that.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Penelope Pitstop

I work in commercial insurance and insure many high volume and medium sized fleets.

A lot of my clients are turning over and increasing their fleets and none of the ones that had Fords previously are sticking with them. I am seeing a lot of Mazda's and Toyotas coming through especially in the ute fleets. The Mazda BT50 diesel is way way popular at the moment.

Funnily enough the only client I have that has gone to FG has changed over from Holden Commodores.


You know, as a business man I would have thought you would be trawling the forums reading all the problems that people are having and taking it on board... Learning from the bad experiences that your POTENTIAL customers have endured and ensuring that your sales, service and administration people are aware of the frustrations and disappointments that your POTENTIAL client base has received from COMPETITOR dealerships and brainstorming ways to rectify and be more pro active when dealing with such issues. Seems to me if you could nail this dedication to top level servicing you would be sitting on a GOLD MINE.

I work in sales and am, even if I say so myself, quite successful – my secret has always been to LISTEN to my clients. Especially since they are paying my wage through COMMISSION.

Anyway, I would say that most of these words will be wasted on you MR SIDO as I am only a Ford Customer, hey....what would I know?

My advice to any Dealer Principal is to setup a desk in the service department and work from there, two days a week. Introduce yourself to your customers, watch your staff interact with each other and the customers. Answer the phone, inspect the work being done, get to know this aspect of your business better than the new car sales. Heck a laptop and a desk are not that hard to setup and you can catchup on other work too. Just being there will make a difference. Service Manager doesn't like it? Show them the door, as things are going on they obviously didn't want you to know anyway.

You see you buy the car once and then you get it serviced many times. The service experience has more bearing on wether a person or company sticks with Ford as a brand (note not just Falcon), then anything else.

Want to know why Ford small cars aren't competitive in the Aussie market? Want to know why user choosers don't even consider Fords of any kind?

Look at the service department.

Unfortunately many Dealer Principals have this misconception that they are too important to hang out in the service department. Lets get real, you are in sales and many, many sales will be decided by how the customers experience goes in the service department.

Amazing to me that such a critical part of a business is left to a "service manager" so the DP can feel important in the new car lot with the few new customers who are even in the market to look at new cars at the moment.

Service and spares, more then anything else are what set the companies and the dealers reputation. Make it important and you might be surprised to find there really was room for improvement and that you bottom line is actually growing as word gets out (including on this forum) that you are putting the right empahasis in your dealership.

So my advice, is do take what is on here personal. Make it your mantra that it won't be your dam dealership they are talking about on here, because you are actively involved in all aspects of your business. You will be one huge leap ahead of many competitors and fellow Ford dealers if you do.

Good luck to you.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

You see you buy the car once and then you get it serviced many times. The service experience has more bearing on wether a person or company sticks with Ford as a brand (note not just Falcon), then anything else.

I fully agree. For me the dealers need to work on the whole total ownership experience and servicing plays a massive part of this. My experience with Ford dealers is that they make no attempt to build a relationship with their customers.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

My advice to any Dealer Principal is to setup a desk in the service department and work from there, two days a week. Introduce yourself to your customers, watch your staff interact with each other and the customers. Answer the phone, inspect the work being done, get to know this aspect of your business better than the new car sales. Heck a laptop and a desk are not that hard to setup and you can catchup on other work too. Just being there will make a difference. Service Manager doesn't like it? Show them the door, as things are going on they obviously didn't want you to know anyway.

You see you buy the car once and then you get it serviced many times. The service experience has more bearing on wether a person or company sticks with Ford as a brand (note not just Falcon), then anything else.

Want to know why Ford small cars aren't competitive in the Aussie market? Want to know why user choosers don't even consider Fords of any kind?

Look at the service department.

Unfortunately many Dealer Principals have this misconception that they are too important to hang out in the service department. Lets get real, you are in sales and many, many sales will be decided by how the customers experience goes in the service department.

Amazing to me that such a critical part of a business is left to a "service manager" so the DP can feel important in the new car lot with the few new customers who are even in the market to look at new cars at the moment.

Service and spares, more then anything else are what set the companies and the dealers reputation. Make it important and you might be surprised to find there really was room for improvement and that you bottom line is actually growing as word gets out (including on this forum) that you are putting the right empahasis in your dealership.

So my advice, is do take what is on here personal. Make it your mantra that it won't be your dam dealership they are talking about on here, because you are actively involved in all aspects of your business. You will be one huge leap ahead of many competitors and fellow Ford dealers if you do.

Good luck to you.

Excellent post, sums it up well!

[snappy]

Well just got off the phone to my uncle .
He just had an interesting expierence with his dealer .
While he was sitting there waiting for his ute to be brought around . The workers in the service department where talking about a man who bought his festiva in that needed a new fuel pump. One worker said well thats covered under warranty . Which the other worker then said just say it was dirty fuel that way we he needs to pay for it.
Well to say the least my uncle was not impressed .
He is looking for a new ute because his ford has had to many problems in the last 2 months he replaced the cpu,rotors and now the diff on a ute that done 55 thousand k's.
looks like another toyota driver . He was thinking the mazda but afraid it will be to similar to the ford .
With service like that i can't blame him

[Buzz Box]

Well I am thinking of getting a 2nd hand BF car because they are so damn cheap atm they are basically giving them away but I am reluctant and my partner is 100% against another ford from the troubles we've had so far.

Brand new car in 6 times in the first 2 months and still not fixed.........(went external)

[BFZ Wagon]

The service department is who the customer deals with more often than the 'initial purchase' and that is what they will go on when judging their Ford experience.
Look after the customer very well and you get repeat business and new customers (via word of mouth). People will return to a place if they're looked after and made to feel special. Treat them with contempt and rudeness and you're going to watch them turn away in droves and go elsewhere.

Also, employees need to keep their mouths shut. Talking about customers or talking of ways to rip them off (especially within earshot of a customer) is just not on!
Sounds like Ford need to look at how well companies like Lexus and Mercedes treat their customers.. Very different situation! Yes, they probably pay more.. But that's not the point!

[Wally]

Originally Posted by MR_SIDO

You could not be further from the truth when you say that your words would be wasted on me, I read most of the issues on these forums and find myself looking at ways to improve, this is the heartland of the Ford enthusiest right here why would I not look at it? My customers are the lifeblood of my dealership and I will always listen, so thanks for your comment's, I love the passion on these forums. I just wish that us dealers were not pigeon holed as villians when most of us are trying to do the right thing, hence the reason for my post.

Well from my perspective as someone who actually buys new cars every three years (wife's and mine) dealers have to change the hachneyed way they sell a car. For too long the dealer principle has been that invisible guy who the sales rep runs to get a another one ripped in his rear because the customer is driving such a hard bargain... yeah right.

For some reason this game survives even though it's makes the poor sod, who just wants a car, aggravated and uncomfortable. It's got to the point with me that I do a walk around the showrooms and rather than go through the drill, I go home and call the dealer to bring around a demonstrator where the rep is on my turf and I can actually have a casual negotiation.

As per a previous post the dealer principle should be less of a shrinking violet and actually interact with the clients. Having said that, the Ford dealer near me does wander around, but acts like he's Caesar, which is even more off putting.

Simple marketing tells you that if someone is in your car yard, they are a potential sale. Simple marketing also says that a product does not sell itself; five star rating or not. The fact that a client views a car sales rep with skepticism speaks liberally of the barriers to purchase from past misdemeanors. Joe Public knows he can't make demands on the likes of Toyota, but Holden and Falcon are seen as local produce and they expect more flexible and patriotic treatment, by someone other than a twenty something yearold in a cheap suit and a rat cunning personality.

[balthazarr]

Originally Posted by Wally

Well from my perspective as someone who actually buys new cars every three years (wife's and mine) dealers have to change the hachneyed way they sell a car. For too long the dealer principle has been that invisible guy who the sales rep runs to get a another one ripped in his rear because the customer is driving such a hard bargain... yeah right.

For some reason this game survives even though it's makes the poor sod, who just wants a car, aggravated and uncomfortable. It's got to the point with me that I do a walk around the showrooms and rather than go through the drill, I go home and call the dealer to bring around a demonstrator where the rep is on my turf and I can actually have a casual negotiation.

As per a previous post the dealer principle should be less of a shrinking violet and actually interact with the clients. Having said that, the Ford dealer near me does wander around, but acts like he's Caesar, which is even more off putting.

Simple marketing tells you that if someone is in your car yard, they are a potential sale. Simple marketing also says that a product does not sell itself; five star rating or not. The fact that a client views a car sales rep with skepticism speaks liberally of the barriers to purchase from past misdemeanors. Joe Public knows he can't make demands on the likes of Toyota, but Holden and Falcon are seen as local produce and they expect more flexible and patriotic treatment, by someone other than a twenty something yearold in a cheap suit and a rat cunning personality.

I agree. But having said that, there is nothing stopping you from having a sit down with the dealer principal - and if he/she won't talk to you, then find a dealership where they will.

I actually signed the deal with the dealer principal when I bought my car recently. The salesman is happy, he'll still get his commission, and I was happy because I didn't have to deal with all the BS of having the sales guy check everything every 2 seconds.

[4Vman]

I can't believe the amount of people who go to Ford dealerships looking to form life long friendships!!
I just go there to buy the car i want... to be perfectly frank it doesn't bother me if they're nice or not, just sell me the car!

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I can't believe the amount of people who go to Ford dealerships looking to form life long friendships!!
I just go there to buy the car i want... to be perfectly frank it doesn't bother me if they're nice or not, just sell me the car!

The dealer will only ever be accommodating when buying, thats what salesmen do. If not, you dont buy and go elsewhere.

Its the after sales service that people are referring too as far as I see. And after sales stuff is a large part of new car ownership which is reflected in the reputation, thus future sales and the future of the company.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by fmc351

The dealer will only ever be accommodating when buying, thats what salesmen do. If not, you dont buy and go elsewhere.

Its the after sales service that people are referring too as far as I see. And after sales stuff is a large part of new car ownership which is reflected in the reputation, thus future sales and the future of the company.

Yeah true, but don't think for one min Ford people are alone with disgruntled dealer service, for me personally i've had worse experiences with Holden and Mazda dealers than Ford dealers... im not saying the Ford dealership experience was perfect, but there has been issues with Holden and Mazda dealers that stick out far more, ultimately i took those cars to different dealers for service because i wasnt happy, it didn't impact my perception of the product itself though, nor did it change my potential buying preference either, and that's after owning multiple examples of all 3 brands, so i think it needs to be looked at as a "dealer by dealer, case by case" issue, not just a Ford issue.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Yeah true, but don't think for one min Ford people are alone with disgruntled dealer service, for me personally i've had worse experiences with Holden and Mazda dealers than Ford dealers... im not saying the Ford dealership experience was perfect, but there has been issues with Holden and Mazda dealers that stick out far more, ultimately i took those cars to different dealers for service because i wasnt happy, it didn't impact my perception of the product itself though, nor did it change my potential buying preference either, and that's after owning multiple examples of all 3 brands, so i think its an industry issue, not just a Ford issue.

Mazda??? I remember buying bits for my wifes 323, Ford were cheaper for the exact same part, and a lot cheaper at that. Yet for other parts, it was the reverse.

For sure its industry, especially the lower end of the market. Comparisons to Merc or BMW are senseless, you dont pay $100k plus for a Falcon so you cant compare the spectrums.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by fmc351

Mazda??? I remember buying bits for my wifes 323, Ford were cheaper for the exact same part, and a lot cheaper at that. Yet for other parts, it was the reverse.

For sure its industry, especially the lower end of the market. Comparisons to Merc or BMW are senseless, you dont pay $100k plus for a Falcon so you cant compare the spectrums.

A particular Mazda dealership was possibly my worst experience: charging for stuff that wasn't done (proved without doubt), steeling loose change from the console.. on more than one occasion too, hence why we take the car elsewhere now. The car is fantastic though, id buy another tomorrow, just not from that dealer.
Anyone who swaps brands purely because they had bad experiences dealing with a particular branded service dept is in for one very rude shock based on the law of averages... Bad dealer service is NOT the sole domain of Ford, nor is it any worse (or better) than other "regular" brands.
Mercedes were fantastic to me, but so they should for what you pay.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

A particular Mazda dealership was possibly my worst experience: charging for stuff that wasn't done (proved without doubt), steeling loose change from the console.. on more than one occasion too, hence why we take the car elsewhere now. The car is fantastic though, id buy another tomorrow, just not from that dealer.
Anyone who swaps brands purely because they had bad experiences dealing with a particular branded service dept is in for one very rude shock based on the law of averages... Bad dealer service is NOT the sole domain of Ford, nor is it any worse (or better) than other "regular" brands.
Mercedes were fantastic to me, but so they should for what you pay.

What if they brand swap because they have had bad dealings with 4 Ford service departments, about 80% of the available service departments and 100% of all the individual franchises on the south side of Brisbane?

Had a phone call from BMW servicing today, my new A pillar trim is in as is the new bonnet scoop. These will take about 2hrs total to replace, I mentioned I might be able to book the Mini in for friday. The service advisors first response was "that is excellent Mr Goodwin, we have a loan car available for you". Has anyone heard that response from a Ford dealer? I klnow that I have not. I even said thanks for the loan car but it will not be needed, so much service I get to knock some back. I am so happy, that 335 is looking more competitive for our next buy.