Poll/ which car will be more collectable? 351GTF or VF GTS

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

You'd be wrong big damo, I'm 32 and bought a gtf its not just older guys. I know plenty of younger people who still love the idea of muscle cars and what the gt and gts stand for.

One of my apprentices bought an R34 GT skyline as his first car, the 4 door one, then he sold it and bought a MKIV Toyota Supra, then sold that for a VE Commodore, then sold the VE Commodore after 6 months and is back in a MKIV Supra lol.

One of the the guys who trained me had a few VU SS Commodores, but now he is looking to get into an S15 Silvia....

The other guy who helped me along had a 180SX.

They're all in their 20s and their friends are the same, might be more to do with inner city people but the Jap Import is king in Melbourne amongst the younger enthusiast crowd lol.

Fast and the Furious kicked off the Jap Import popularity amongst Gen Y/Z I think.

[SensationFG8]

I still don't see how that equates to only old people are buying GT's.

I know a fair share of rice fans and I know a fair share of muscle fans from that age bracket.

I've seen plenty of people transition from rice to muscle as they get into their late 20's too. Could just be a factor of what they can afford at the time.

[MercuryT]

Originally Posted by GT-0733

i'd say this would be a massive minority, based on my 22yo old son's thinking and his peers. big v8 engines mean nothing to them and a GT is from Nissan.

Even though older than your son being in early 30s, that is also my experience.

I literally know no one who had or wanted a HSV or FPV in my 20s - jap imports were all the rage, with GTR being the 'hero car'. Now they are cashed up it seems only Euro cars are worth buying - none even considered local products (definitely to their detriment IMO)

Personally I love my Xr6 Turbo, best car i've ever owned. Would buy another Ford in a flash and in fact intend to (second hand FG F6 or GT here I come!) But to be honest, FPV, HSV, GT, GTS, F6 or whatever doesn't mean anything special. Still just Holden and Ford of varying models and I will pay the $$ relative to that and hope to pick up another bargain.

I can, however, totally understand those who think very differently. The people that get right into Bathurst etc, passionate about the badge, only consider V8s etc etc. But yep, i'd say a large minority in the younger bracket and getting smaller by the day.

It will be interesting to see how collectable these cars do in fact turn out to be. Be great for the owners if they do turn into something like classic status down the track.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

I still don't see how that equates to only old people are buying GT's.

I know a fair share of rice fans and I know a fair share of muscle fans from that age bracket.

I've seen plenty of people transition from rice to muscle as they get into their late 20's too. Could just be a factor of what they can afford at the time.

Might not be only but the majority of us (1990s) couldn't give a rats *** about "GT" as a brand and that includes me, GT has no significance to me and I'm a Ford fan.

You'll find a R33 GT-R in unmolested good condition commands more price than what a BA GT will even though its a slower and older car and they change hands more frequently.

[Smoke Pursuit]

The GTF will hold its value more then a mass produced GTS...

Bit of a no brainer...

[Batmobile]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Even though older than your son being in early 30s, that is also my experience.

I literally know no one who had or wanted a HSV or FPV in my 20s - jap imports were all the rage, with GTR being the 'hero car'. Now they are cashed up it seems only Euro cars are worth buying - none even considered local products (definitely to their detriment IMO)

Personally I love my Xr6 Turbo, best car i've ever owned. Would buy another Ford in a flash and in fact intend to (second hand FG F6 or GT here I come!) But to be honest, FPV, HSV, GT, GTS, F6 or whatever doesn't mean anything special. Still just Holden and Ford of varying models and I will pay the $$ relative to that and hope to pick up another bargain.

I can, however, totally understand those who think very differently. The people that get right into Bathurst etc, passionate about the badge, only consider V8s etc etc. But yep, i'd say a large minority in the younger bracket and getting smaller by the day.

It will be interesting to see how collectable these cars do in fact turn out to be. Be great for the owners if they do turn into something like classic status down the track.

I would have to agree .. Those who didn't come through the seventies and eighties , wont understand the car scene as it was then .. everyone , drove mod cars , sedans , vans and oh my god panel vans(you 've got to have a smile on your dial , if you either took a bunch of mates or your girl to a drive night during the summer break) - never forget the promo van for Coca Cola - it felt like everyone wanted to own it .
Today , you dont see the muscle cars , like we did , those years ago - touring , beach , drive ins , etc .. The younger set , just want to turn the key and get to where they are going(its more about getting there , than the drive) , as long as it has a MP3 and Auto , and the colour right , it will do .. The next group , that are interested in what they drive , they are into fast fours and or Euro cars - they start , with a second hand and look to move into a BMW M3 or M4 ..
Agree .............if we all shelve our GT's .........the next group wont get to understand and learn about our passion , and thus , the next group wont be interested in the GT's(Valiant, Hemi. Holden, etc) in 20-40years time , hence , they wont be worth anything ..
In point - rock up to a car meet , Muscle Car Expo , and its all the old dudes , or fathers with their teenage sons/daughters .. and of those in their 20's - very little understand the 70's era (F6 is a brillant car , not sort because of emotional attachment of a yester year , but repected due to its performance)
Recently , someone said to me , if you own a GT , only those in your age group will understand the attraction , however , own a GT-R , Subura RSpec , Golf R , BMW M3 , Porsche Boxer , etc and you will have a respect from a wider audience ..
Although that statement is true .. the more important question was 'are we, as a society , more or less connected to the car , than we were some years ago ?'

[LoudPipes]

The GT and the GTS of today will never evoke the passion of the muscle cars of the ‘70s because the owners of the 1970s cars lived in a time before the nanny state impeded and clouded our freedom.
The cars and passion was everywhere, the modern muscle of today is locked away in garages.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Might not be only but the majority of us (1990s) couldn't give a rats *** about "GT" as a brand and that includes me, GT has no significance to me and I'm a Ford fan.

You'll find a R33 GT-R in unmolested good condition commands more price than what a BA GT will even though its a slower and older car and they change hands more frequently.

Lol that's the catch right there....try finding an R33 GTR in smick condition is impossible.
And in my circles....(32yrs) v8s were more "sought" after but jap imports were more commonly bought simply because they were cheaper to get into,run and pay for.
Simple as that.
The used car market is nothing like new car markets. As the guys with jap cars got older and more cashed up....they're now nearly all in big cars and v8s.
Makes a big diff where u live too of course.....cities will obviously support smaller cheaper cars better.

[MercuryT]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Lol that's the catch right there....try finding an R33 GTR in smick condition is impossible.
And in my circles....(32yrs) v8s were more "sought" after but jap imports were more commonly bought simply because they were cheaper to get into,run and pay for.
Simple as that.
The used car market is nothing like new car markets. As the guys with jap cars got older and more cashed up....they're now nearly all in big cars and v8s.
Makes a big diff where u live too of course.....cities will obviously support smaller cheaper cars better.

As a 33yo, that is the exact opposite of people I know.

VP/VR and EB/AU V8s of various varieties were very affordable, but turbo sixes and fours (and in coupes) far more desirable at that age. Can't blame them either, the local options on offer either were rubbish or looked rubbish.

Those same buyers are still not interested in large 'Falcodores', rightly or wrongly. Both Ford and Holden have much better offerings these days, especially looks wise. But those buyers have moved on to (overpriced) Euros or high end Jap cars.

GTRs in good nick are available. They command a big premium, and for a reason. They are very desirable to many people who consider them far more valuable than a basic local V8 sedan, and hence will pay for it.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Lol that's the catch right there....try finding an R33 GTR in smick condition is impossible.

They're still out there, but they're still $20K+ in Victoria. There was a nice mint condition blue one which was on carsales a few weeks ago, 100% factory, even come with boxed collectors cars, posters etc, but it was around $30K.

R34 GT-R are worth a mint too, you know the one Paul Walker drove lol.

That first Fast and the Furious movie has a lot to answer for, thats why 90% of late Gen Y loves jap imports regardless of how silly and fake it was, I remember going to see it with my friend and his older sisters boyfriend, in his early Lancer EVO haha.

[MercuryT]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

They're still out there, but they're still $20K+ in Victoria.

R34 GT-R V-spec II is worth a mint too.

That first Fast and the Furious movie has a lot to answer for, thats why 90% of late Gen Y loves jap imports regardless of how silly and fake it was.

True about Fast and Furious and 'fanbois', but the GTR is a special car.

I don't find it surprising at all that it commands a price. The local options in that year range were plain awful, including HSV/Tickford.

[AAXR8]

Originally Posted by Batmobile

I would have to agree .. Those who didn't come through the seventies and eighties , wont understand the car scene as it was then .. everyone , drove mod cars , sedans , vans and oh my god panel vans(you 've got to have a smile on your dial , if you either took a bunch of mates or your girl to a drive night during the summer break) - never forget the promo van for Coca Cola - it felt like everyone wanted to own it .
Today , you dont see the muscle cars , like we did , those years ago - touring , beach , drive ins , etc .. The younger set , just want to turn the key and get to where they are going(its more about getting there , than the drive) , as long as it has a MP3 and Auto , and the colour right , it will do .. The next group , that are interested in what they drive , they are into fast fours and or Euro cars - they start , with a second hand and look to move into a BMW M3 or M4 ..
Agree .............if we all shelve our GT's .........the next group wont get to understand and learn about our passion , and thus , the next group wont be interested in the GT's(Valiant, Hemi. Holden, etc) in 20-40years time , hence , they wont be worth anything ..
In point - rock up to a car meet , Muscle Car Expo , and its all the old dudes , or fathers with their teenage sons/daughters .. and of those in their 20's - very little understand the 70's era (F6 is a brillant car , not sort because of emotional attachment of a yester year , but repected due to its performance)
Recently , someone said to me , if you own a GT , only those in your age group will understand the attraction , however , own a GT-R , Subura RSpec , Golf R , BMW M3 , Porsche Boxer , etc and you will have a respect from a wider audience ..
Although that statement is true .. the more important question was 'are we, as a society , more or less connected to the car , than we were some years ago ?'

I read your Post and think BATMOBILE that your 100% on the money!!
I am 33 and I was brought up with the older GT, Monaro Coupe's, XB Coupe's and the Mustangs but that was because my Grandad was a Mechanic & that is what they did in there Spare time work on there cars in there shed with my Uncles & Father, But Grandad taught them how to get by when they were young so if they were on a Cruise & broke down this is what to look for!! Then me it happened with my Dad & Brothers, But the Cars we worked on together were the XD's, Torana's, WB's ute. So my Father and brothers were holden and my first car was supposed to be a XE or XD, I can't remember which one because the guy I bought it off let me Pay it off & it was stolen just near the end of Paying it off!! So I missed out on the Car but, He was nice enough to give me another car which was a VK Calais 5LTR, (was hard driving it on my P's, don't worry!!!)BUT THANKS JAMIE!!! So I was just lucky enough to see that era that you talk about!!! My familys Holden but I had to sell the Calais due to money problems and bought an EA that was a Life Changer for me because it was so comfortable to drive so I am NOW a Ford Man so I have kept buying each new serious & now I own a BA XR8 that is a Crazy Car!! But I have seen the kids change from the XD era and the VK to the recent cars and the kids in the town i live have gone from holdens VL turbo to the Supras & Skylines & now my town is full of XR6's and XR8's & the Holden VT upwards to the VF and all as load as they can so pretty much straight through exhausts! I was also brought up around ski Racing boats from the early Island Cooler-Gods Gift Days to HellRazor-Blazen which are the boats of today because off the 500 Twin turbo V8's that we are lucky enough to see the V8 Power & Sound Still!
But I would have to go the 351 GTF because seeing the price off the older XY-GT's Sky Rocket in price I think because of the stop of production in Australia that it would have to be the one!

[BHDOGS]

I like this thread makes it easy to look up the usual holden suck holes on this forum.

[Iggle Piggle]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

I like this thread really shows how blessed we are to be offered the best either brand has ever offered at this current point in time.

I agree - good job!

[hootar]

Wheels Facebook has them doing a dyno-off between FPV GTF and HSV GTS. This may give some credit to bragging rights. That's if they don't fiddle with the figures?

Check it out, results will be known on Monday??

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=908167489208910

[Iggle Piggle]

Results will be interesting.

Some will pay out on drive-train losses, particularly those that are in to trailer queens where it only comes down to which pulls the best number on the dyno, not which can pull a decent number down the quarter, let alone those that also brake and steer where times around a track will be more important.

Who cares about drive-train losses - losses down a quarter or around a track is what matters. To me that is.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Iggle Piggle

Results will be interesting.

Some will pay out on drive-train losses, particularly those that are in to trailer queens where it only comes down to which pulls the best number on the dyno, not which can pull a decent number down the quarter, let alone those that also brake and steer where times around a track will be more important.

Who cares about drive-train losses - losses down a quarter or around a track is what matters. To me that is.

Yep everyone can blame something.....
Dynos...it can be drive lines
Drags it can be tyres
Racetracks it can be gearboxes
They should take each comparo for what they.

As for all the cars mt mates n co drove growing up....it included datsuns, skylines,Sylvia's,soarers,worked vw ;), lowluxs,geminis,supras,chargers,suburus and some VNs and falcons. An even mix of NA a turbo for all of them.
The only ones I can think of still going that way is the Dato ute, the charger and one of the sub I guys. All the test are in turbo falcons,v8 commadores and a mixture of older muscle cars.
Interesting how it can be so different in other areas but the same timeline!

[rancidpunx]

I will start lol, GTF is strapped down a lot firmer.

[40RDT]

Will be interesting to see the power and torque difference between the 351 engine and the 335 engine. Will also be interesting to see the torque difference between the 5L and 6.2L

[Motorbreath310]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

Will be interesting to see the power and torque difference between the 351 engine and the 335 engine. Will also be interesting to see the torque difference between the 5L and 6.2L

The 5L will be no match for a 430kw 6.2 when you factor in 'transient overboost' just ask our mate Josh Dowling.

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by Iggle Piggle

Results will be interesting.

Some will pay out on drive-train losses, particularly those that are in to trailer queens where it only comes down to which pulls the best number on the dyno, not which can pull a decent number down the quarter, let alone those that also brake and steer where times around a track will be more important.

Who cares about drive-train losses - losses down a quarter or around a track is what matters. To me that is.

Good point at the end of the day dyno numbers don't really matter, performance times are the only numbers that really matter

[MrXR8]

as this is a ford forum obviously the GTF will be the winner of this poll. but IMO I don't think its the wrong answer. the GTF is the last GT ever. I believe the GT badge is more iconic than the GTS badge. sorry to all the holden fans out there, I just don't see the GTS badge as having the same following.

so Hail the GT for the final time.

[RB Snake]

The only thing about those cars that would be collectible for me is the memory's of driving them. We will move onto better things.

[bigwil]

Just got the latest issue of motor today, nice looking cover with a GT-F up against a club sport r8, went straight to the end of the comparison and they gave the overall win to the HSV 4 stars to the GT-F 3 and a half stars .

[hootar]

Originally Posted by bigwil

Just got the latest issue of motor today, nice looking cover with a GT-F up against a club sport r8, went straight to the end of the comparison and they gave the overall win to the HSV 4 stars to the GT-F 3 and a half stars .

Surprise surprise I would never have guessed.

Don't tell me the HSV has better power, better interior, better looking, better seating position to beat ones self. Better air in its tyres, Pays better for a favorable report.

I'll let you in on a little Secret . It's RIGGED

[timeout]

They both carry lineage back to race cars in the 70s anyway think of the people involved over the years.

Modern history one could argue HSV has more collectability back to 1988. Ford have gone through 3 identities in that time Tickford badging , FTE and finally FPV.

You could also argue the Tickfords and FPV are rarer due to a closed following sales wise.

Otherwise it will be the same conversation in 30 yrs time as it is now and as it was in 1970

[bigwil]

Originally Posted by hootar

Surprise surprise I would never have guessed.

Don't tell me the HSV has better power, better interior, better looking, better seating position to beat ones self. Better air in its tyres, Pays better for a favorable report.

I'll let you in on a little Secret . It's RIGGED

Pretty much spot on plus GT-F ride is too rough and after 11 years of testing FPVs they can't stop bagging the starter button, we get it, Motor and Wheels don't like it, freaking move on already.

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by hootar

Surprise surprise I would never have guessed.

Don't tell me the HSV has better power, better interior, better looking, better seating position to beat ones self. Better air in its tyres, Pays better for a favorable report.

I'll let you in on a little Secret . It's RIGGED

It only lost by half a star in overall score, yeah it must be rigged

The VF is the newer model of course its going to better scores in areas than the old outgoing FG model.

[hootar]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

It only lost by half a star in overall score, yeah it must be rigged

The VF is the newer model of course its going to better scores in areas than the old outgoing FG model.

Sorry Rocky I didn't know I was replying to your Post before, but any way come in spinner.

Originally Posted by 40RDT

Good point at the end of the day dyno numbers don't really matter, performance times are the only numbers that really matter

Now I could mention the massive fail of the wheels dyno run against the supposedly more powerful GTS but to use your words dyno tests dont matter. By that statement I assume you are implying what wheels has just found out, and most other people know already, that the 5.0 SC Ford has the GTS covered. As Motor pitted the GTF against the R8 Clubbie then these performance numbers may be the only numbers that matter to you in deciding a winner.

GT-F 0-100 4.8 and 0-400m 13.0
VF R8 0-100 5.5 and 0-400m 13.5

Considering that Motors sister mag Wheels has already run a 12.68 in the GTF then I'm thinking motors time is conservative.

Before you get on ya high horse remember this. I was replying to bigwil's post and the comparison was between GTF and R8. Plus I do think the air in the tyres of the R8 is better and the R8's seats are a better place to beat ya self if ya choose to do so.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by hootar

GT-F 0-100 4.8 and 0-400m 13.0
VF R8 0-100 5.5 and 0-400m 13.5

Considering that Motors sister mag Wheels has already run a 12.68 in the GTF then I'm thinking motors time is conservative.

Before you get on ya high horse remember this. I was replying to bigwil's post and the comparison was between GTF and R8. Plus I do think the air in the tyres of the R8 is better and the R8's seats are a better place to beat ya self if ya choose to do so.

Surprised a 4.8 only netted a 13 flat down the strip.
And these "non" GTS motored v8s really do seem slow for the new VF. 5.5 and 13.5 No wonder I've taken care of a few pretty easily in the g6 allready
I mean they were allready lacking a bit but with all the new weight loss, suspension upgrades and tech, along with tyres n so on......you'd expect them to progress rapidly. No doubt it's a good package tho(if that's wat ya after)

Be very interested in those dyno results when done!