My incident with a speed camera operator

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Axeman82

If your car goes an extra 3-4kms over the limt on overrun, then why not just stop accelerating at 3-4kays under the limit? Does the extra 3 secs you gain in time affect things?

Dan...

I give up. Your all right, I've an evil, venomous criminal because I travel 3kph over the limit when I burp.

Hell, I'll just lose all my points, lose my job, go on the dole and let you all look after me and my wife and 4 kids... I can sleep in every day and get paid hansomely to do it. Not to mention getting cheap rego, elec, gas, medical. All on the taxpayers.

I'll just drive unlicenced too.. screw it, why not.

Sound like an extreme case? I'm betting there's cases like this happening every day.

[xdc351]

Originally Posted by Dez

i never said the law was fair. i said it is in place, and i deal with it. i also never said i agree with current laws.

You deal with it or you haven't yet been directly affected by it?

I haven't recieved a single fine since the 3kmh tolerance was imposed and only recieved one fine in my life 4 years ago... But I can see a shafting from a mile away and refuse to stand by and watch my fellow citizens get robbed by their government's fancy PR campaigns which exist soley to cover up the gaping holes in their mis-managed budget.

[Dez]

Originally Posted by xdc351

You deal with it or you haven't yet been directly affected by it?

I haven't recieved a single fine since the 3kmh tolerance was imposed and only recieved one fine in my life 4 years ago... But I can see a shafting from a mile away and refuse to stand by and watch my fellow citizens get robbed by their government's fancy PR campaigns which exist soley to cover up the gaping holes in their mis-managed budget.

so you must be doing something about it....

i deal with it, and no i haven't been fined as yet....i'm sure i will 1 day, and obviously i wont be happy about it. But i am saying that the law is there AT THIS POINT IN TIME and we are all bound by it

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Dez

i never said the law was fair. i said it is in place, and i deal with it. i also never said i agree with current laws.

You never said it no, but by your own admission:

Originally Posted by Dez

well maybe he would have been the 1 to change it...but since he is no longer in that position, it'll probably stay the same as it is now, no matter who's running the show

You have no intention of trying to change it either. That means you have done a net total of NOTHING and deserve everything you get.

[xdc351]

Originally Posted by Dez

so you must be doing something about it....

i deal with it, and no i haven't been fined as yet....i'm sure i will 1 day, and obviously i wont be happy about it. But i am saying that the law is there AT THIS POINT IN TIME and we are all bound by it

I do what I can. We all need to do something if we want this madness to stop because it won't change by itself.

[Dez]

Originally Posted by Casper

You have no intention of trying to change it either. That means you have done a net total of NOTHING and deserve everything you get.

which at this point in time is absolutely nothing, and its not like i avoid certain roads etc. i drive where ever i have to go, main roads etc, ring road, where ever i have to go, i drive there.

what exactly is it that you are doing about the issue? just out of curiosity...

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Dez

which at this point in time is absolutely nothing, and its not like i avoid certain roads etc. i drive where ever i have to go, main roads etc, ring road, where ever i have to go, i drive there.

what exactly is it that you are doing about the issue? just out of curiosity...

including the dozen or so letters to MP's and Fedral pollies? Or the ones I'm taking to court to fight? Or the number of emails and letters sent to newspapers, current affairs shows etc stating the case against them and asking for them to do a story on them based on facts? Maybe just the discussions I have with anyone who listens trying to get them to do the same.

Apart form that, not much.

How about you? Just being a lemming and following all the rest off the cliff?

[DanXR6T]

Originally Posted by xdc351

With the exception of parking officers, the others are doing a job legally and have very strict laws on them to stop wrongdoing. Speed camera's and parking fines run in a different world where grabbing those last few bucks is more important than truth or justice (you don't want to hear my list of unlawful parking officer behaviour)

Or the same way in how banks continually change rules and regulations in finer and finer print to extract fees and surcharges without offering substantial user benefits in return? I guess in a car you can't just say, "well I'm going to change road systems" lol..

Speed camera operators also have guidelines to follow, conversely there are police rules that allow them to override these guidelines. Such as cameras should be setup with respect to x, y and z, however police are also able to park anywhere they want in the course of their lawful duty. So technically they could drive into your house and park in front of the TV if they could justify it.

Originally Posted by xdc351

Dez and Dan, the reason most people get so worked up about the 3kmh tolerance is not because it means we can only speed by 3kmh before being caught, but because our speedo's are manufactured with a 10% tolerance built in.... which means my speedo can be SHOWING me 60kmh an I can still be fined because the actual speed i'm travelling is 66kmh. So through through no fault of my own i'm a target. Now assume for a second that the thickness of my speedo needle covers about 2kmh on the dial, I could be travelling as high as 68kmh without even knowing or intending to break the law. Thats the reality, and thats where bracks and co have been robbing us blind and labeling us as criminals. How is that fair?

I know why people get worked up about it re: ADR's and tolerances. Do we have a system of heirachy of laws in Australia? Does federal ADR overwrite state law? I'm sure that a competent lawyer could make a case. Where's the motoring groups on this? RACV or whatever the Victorian equivalent is? Where's Ford and Holden on this? Thats right they don't care because they are compliant to the law that regards them. What about a civil case against Ford because they don't make speedo's accurate enough for the intended purpose (comes under Fair Trading Act)? And also have people actually tested their speedos? Or is it a case well it make be inaccurate so thats what I'll base my judgement on. What about the tyre companies? Maybe we can sue them because due to tyre wear the speedo becomes less accurate (actually dropping speed, contributing to lower offences), and so they have sold a product that in time will make your car potentially non-ADR compliant...

Take your pick, there's plenty of people to blame...

But last time I checked we lived in a democracy and you ARE allowed to vote them out. Obviously the majority of people don't think speeding tolerances are significant in the big picture of society.

But yes I do understand and as a motorist I'm sure I'll grumble to myself when I get my first speeding ticket.

Dan...

[Captain Stubing]

I'm assuming in the southern states, that speed cameras are operated by local council?

In Qld the police operate the cameras, and they have a 10k/hr buffer. I've been caught a couple of times at something like 71 in a 60 zone.

I think I would have lost my licence if that buffer was only 3 k's!

I know a lot of areas where cameras might be set up, but we still have the handheld LIDAR in use, too.

I think the best bet is to put on your knee-high socks and then your sandals, and pretend you're grandpa behind the wheel.

Sort of defeats the purpose of driving a car to it's design.....

[Dez]

Originally Posted by swanny

I'm assuming in the southern states, that speed cameras are operated by local council?

they hire people, like regular residents to set up and monitor the speed cameras...

[DanXR6T]

Originally Posted by Casper

I give up. Your all right, I've an evil, venomous criminal because I travel 3kph over the limit when I burp.

At least now you admit it LOL...

Just kidding Casper..

In fact I'd like to thank you for supporting me while I was at Uni...

And maybe one day I'll look forward to supporting you in your elderly days (I think there is an adequate age gap between us to assume you'll retire before me - after all I'm only 23)

Dan...

[xdc351]

At the moment I am trying to get a copy of the current radio commercials the TAC is using so I can research their accuracy. I'll be posting more on this issue when they supply me with the information I have requested.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Axeman82

At least now you admit it LOL...

Just kidding Casper..

In fact I'd like to thank you for supporting me while I was at Uni...

And maybe one day I'll look forward to supporting you in your elderly days (I think there is an adequate age gap between us to assume you'll retire before me - after all I'm only 23)

Dan...

No pension when I retiire, I'll be self funded.

[DanXR6T]

You don't have to be on the pension to gain benefits from peoples taxes, seeing as how the government funds things..

And thats a good plan to have, cos the way our population is aging, the place is gonna be up the duff more than ever in 30-40 years..

[xdc351]

Originally Posted by Axeman82

Or the same way in how banks continually change rules and regulations in finer and finer print to extract fees and surcharges without offering substantial user benefits in return? I guess in a car you can't just say, "well I'm going to change road systems" lol..

Speed camera operators also have guidelines to follow, conversely there are police rules that allow them to override these guidelines. Such as cameras should be setup with respect to x, y and z, however police are also able to park anywhere they want in the course of their lawful duty. So technically they could drive into your house and park in front of the TV if they could justify it.

Banks must answer to higher authorities when their increases are questioned. You also have the advantage of changing banks if you don't like what one is doing. Not exactly the same is it? Spped camera operators have been caught hundreds of times parking illigaly. What happens? NOTHING, because the people that are supposed to charge them are on the same payroll.

Originally Posted by Axeman82

I know why people get worked up about it re: ADR's and tolerances. Do we have a system of heirachy of laws in Australia? Does federal ADR overwrite state law? I'm sure that a competent lawyer could make a case. Where's the motoring groups on this? RACV or whatever the Victorian equivalent is? Where's Ford and Holden on this? Thats right they don't care because they are compliant to the law that regards them. What about a civil case against Ford because they don't make speedo's accurate enough for the intended purpose (comes under Fair Trading Act)? And also have people actually tested their speedos? Or is it a case well it make be inaccurate so thats what I'll base my judgement on. What about the tyre companies? Maybe we can sue them because due to tyre wear the speedo becomes less accurate (actually dropping speed, contributing to lower offences), and so they have sold a product that in time will make your car potentially non-ADR compliant...

ADR's are applicable to vehicle manufacture/import in Australia. Road laws and enforcement is managed at the state level. You note the fair trading act.... what about the fact Bracks allows cars to be sold in his state with his ridiculos laws. What about cars manufactured prior to the law change? The problem is not the car makers, tyre companies, the ADR's or the speedo needle designer... its the money hungry morons running Victoria.

Originally Posted by Axeman82

But last time I checked we lived in a democracy and you ARE allowed to vote them out. Obviously the majority of people don't think speeding tolerances are significant in the big picture of society.

Yes but who do we vote in? Doyle? An imcompetent of the highest order. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't. I'd say most people either don't know or are so convinced they are some kind of monster because they were 'caught breaking the law' that they wouldn't want to bring the issue up. If you haven't heard the latest TAC commercials then you have no idea what is fed to the great unwashed in Vic... its disturbing to say the least.

Originally Posted by Axeman82

But yes I do understand and as a motorist I'm sure I'll grumble to myself when I get my first speeding ticket.

Dan...

Grumble quietly to yourself 'eh? Welcome to the nanny state, come meet uncle steve.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Axeman82

You don't have to be on the pension to gain benefits from peoples taxes, seeing as how the government funds things..

And thats a good plan to have, cos the way our population is aging, the place is gonna be up the duff more than ever in 30-40 years..

I wont be aound. According to uncle Steve, I travel 3kph over the limit too often, I'll be killed and take out a line of orphans at his soup kitchen when I roll my car 27 times on a 4 lane freeway. Hell, according to him if I had P plates I would be dead already.

[DanXR6T]

Originally Posted by xdc351

Banks must answer to higher authorities when their increases are questioned. You also have the advantage of changing banks if you don't like what one is doing. Not exactly the same is it? Spped camera operators have been caught hundreds of times parking illigaly. What happens? NOTHING, because the people that are supposed to charge them are on the same payroll.

I did make a comment about changing road systems that was sarcastic as I know its not possible. Maybe Vic laws are different to Qld laws but police can park anywhere here in the course of their duty. Well as for charging them, it really comes down to take with one hand give to other as the money only circulates the same system.

[QUOTE=xdc351]ADR's are applicable to vehicle manufacture/import in Australia. Road laws and enforcement is managed at the state level. You note the fair trading act.... what about the fact Bracks allows cars to be sold in his state with his ridiculos laws. What about cars manufactured prior to the law change? The problem is not the car makers, tyre companies, the ADR's or the speedo needle designer... its the money hungry morons running Victoria.

Well as I said in an earlier post, if politicians were subject to the same penalties as company directors he'd be in jail for not providing a duty of care for his state motorists for allowing a product to be sold that is unfit for the legal requirements. This I don't agree with, if politicians have too much protection from real world rules. As for older cars, well they are reducing in numbers every year and where do you draw the line? How thick does a line become before its not a line but a rectangle?

Originally Posted by xdc351

Yes but who do we vote in? Doyle? An imcompetent of the highest order. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't. I'd say most people either don't know or are so convinced they are some kind of monster because they were 'caught breaking the law' that they wouldn't want to bring the issue up. If you haven't heard the latest TAC commercials then you have no idea what is fed to the great unwashed in Vic... its disturbing to say the least.

I don't really follow Victorian politics so you've got me there.

Originally Posted by xdc351

Grumble quietly to yourself 'eh? Welcome to the nanny state, come meet uncle steve.

Well if he was my uncle I might so see him about some cushy public service job!!!! I don't often grumble quietly to myself, but it would all depend on the situation. 3 kays over in a school zone? I'd slap myself up the head for doing that. 3 kays over on the highway? I'd feel ripped maybe, but then again maybe not. All depends on the situation, and that hasn't yet arisen..

[DanXR6T]

Originally Posted by Casper

I wont be aound. According to uncle Steve, I travel 3kph over the limit too often, I'll be killed and take out a line of orphans at his soup kitchen when I roll my car 27 times on a 4 lane freeway. Hell, according to him if I had P plates I would be dead already.

I don't know what to say to that LOL...

To quote a brilliant mind from our generation...

"Aw, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. 14 percent of all people know that."

You know what they say about brilliant minds thinking alike...

[kiwikid]

hmmm such a fuss about 3km/h over the speed limit.... wow a whole 15cm longer stopping distance....

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Axeman82

I don't know what to say to that LOL...

To quote a brilliant mind from our generation...

"Aw, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. 14 percent of all people know that."

You know what they say about brilliant minds thinking alike...

Problem is, I've looked at the statistics going back over 10 years, they prove that cameras are an excellent source of revenue but have done nothing for the road toll.

That might explain why there are 4 cameras on the westgate bridge..... where there hasnt been a fatality since the late 80's .. and that was caused when a trucks brake discintergrated and went though the front window of a car coming the other way. Its revenue, simple as that.

[RSgerry]

okay...maybe $peed camera operator$ arent nazis, but the arguement that if they didnt do the job, some other scum-sicking lowlife will holds no water. if that was the case, lets not bother arresting drug dealers...after all, someone else will fill their shoes tomorrow.

if these "people" had a conscience, then they wouldnt go out and steal from their fellow citizens and dress it up as 'feeding the family'. they are all a part of the very well oiled money-making machine. they are scum and should be put in stocks in the town centre and have rotten food thrown at them. while it is still in the can.

[DanXR6T]

Casper in the recent RACQ mazagine they did an article on speed cameras.. I'll pick out the more interesting points..

"Proposed zones are identified by Queensland Transport using road crash data that is not more than five years old" the guidelines state.

Queensland Transport has confirmed there are speed camera zones in the police scheduling system which were created using data from up to five years prior to when the program started in 1997.

The RACQ is concerned that while there is consultation when new sites are added to the speed camera scheduler, little effort has been made to review site appropriateness since the programs inception.

There has not been any new sites identified since 2000. That means that in Qld some of the data is over 13 years old...

That is dodgey...

[kiwikid]

after all the ghetto drug dealer is most likly doing it to feed his family aswell, still dosnt make it right... :togo:

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Axeman82

Casper in the recent RACQ mazagine they did an article on speed cameras.. I'll pick out the more interesting points..

"Proposed zones are identified by Queensland Transport using road crash data that is not more than five years old" the guidelines state.

Queensland Transport has confirmed there are speed camera zones in the police scheduling system which were created using data from up to five years prior to when the program started in 1997.

The RACQ is concerned that while there is consultation when new sites are added to the speed camera scheduler, little effort has been made to review site appropriateness since the programs inception.

There has not been any new sites identified since 2000. That means that in Qld some of the data is over 13 years old...

That is dodgey...

That is REVENUE. :togo:

[DanXR6T]

Originally Posted by RSgerry

okay...maybe $peed camera operator$ arent nazis, but the arguement that if they didnt do the job, some other scum-sicking lowlife will holds no water. if that was the case, lets not bother arresting drug dealers...after all, someone else will fill their shoes tomorrow.

if these "people" had a conscience, then they wouldnt go out and steal from their fellow citizens and dress it up as 'feeding the family'. they are all a part of the very well oiled money-making machine. they are scum and should be put in stocks in the town centre and have rotten food thrown at them. while it is still in the can.

This post is just stupid...

Speed camera operators are NOT the same as DRUG DEALERS? How can you even make that comparison?

Why paint everyone with the same brush? In other states that don't have the 3km/h tolerance I'm glad there are speed cameras to stop people doing 150km/h on the highway or 80 in 60 zones. Or even 66 in a 60 zone.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by Axeman82

To quote a brilliant mind from our generation...

"Aw, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. 14 percent of all people know that."

You’ve stolen my thunder.

Originally Posted by kiwikid

hmmm such a fuss about 3km/h over the speed limit.... wow a whole 15cm longer stopping distance....

The problem with that Kiwikid is that 15 cm is the difference between stopping and missing someone, to wiping out a complete suburb of overweight ADHD effected school kids who wag school and whose parents are on welfare.

Cheers, Danny

[DanXR6T]

Originally Posted by Casper

That is REVENUE. :togo:

Yep, but not in the same regards as 3km/h tolerances. Generally in Qld if you've been flashed, you know your in the wrong.

My decided position on this subject is that camera operators are doing a legitimate job, if you don't like them personally, build a bridge or whatever, move on.. (which was the orginal issue in this whole thread)

Anything under ADR tolerance is revenue raising but don't assume that because you are doing 65 in a 60 zone that you should be exempt because your speedo "may" be inaccurate. Too many people use this excuse as a cover cos they are losers.

And also just think of all the times that DO speed, compared to the times when you ACTUALLY get caught. I'm sure you come out substantially infront. Just all be glad we don't have GPS transmitters built into our ECU's...

My contribution is over... :

Dan..

[DanXR6T]

Oh and they are general comments, I wasn't directing them at you Casper lol..

[kiwikid]

if you know your car like all drivers should you will also know how far you speedo is out by...
and i wasnt stating that its only 15cm so it doesnt matter if you speed, i was just stating the fact that it is only 15cm...

[DanXR6T]

I said I wasn't going to post again but couldn't help it...

kiwikid, I want to learn the way of the car from you.
Despite my hardest efforts, I am unable to tell from the imperfections in the roads suface and its subtle vibrations, or from the noise of the chirping birds, or the density of air coming through the vents if my car is doing 60 or 61.5 km/h...