Covid 19 -

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

200 cases here now, bloody hell

If WA opens its borders Trev, I mean ever not at Christmas or New Year, then it will decimate Perth being the major entry point to WA, our hospitals cannot cope now, nevermind a covid invasion, the Premier things because they got through the AFL final scot free, that they can handle anyone from over east visiting, no checks and balances, wrong, we have ambulances ramped up the driveways for 8 hrs at a stretch, paramedics keeping folk alive, glad I won't be here to see it, or experience it, WA residents are in for a monumental shock?

[russellw]

NSW/VIC

NSW records 294 cases in the current period and the 10-day average growth rate increases to 0.9828 (from 0.9621) while the actual line remains above the predictive trend line and is heading upward again.



VIC records 1,461 cases in the current period and the 10-day average growth rate decreases to 0.9697 (from 0.9891) while the actual line falls behind the predictive trend which has been changed to a 4th order polynomial.

[russellw]

Data valid as at 00:00 GMT October 24th 2021.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting.

2,203 new cases for Australia and 15 deaths so the CMR is 1.032%.

84 new cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 0.497%.

The UK had 38,740 cases yesterday and 72 deaths for a CMR of 1.590%.

30,244 new cases in the USA yesterday and 484 deaths sees CMR at 1.633%.

Other notable points: (weekend reporting)

Only
PNG (896)

... recorded new highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

No countries move above the 90th percentile for the 10 day period and no countries drop below.

[MITCHAY]

Testing numbers are way down in ACT (<1k) at the moment though a good part of that can be attributed to changing the exposure site information. I'm hoping it's not because of too much complacency because I find it hard to believe there are <1k with possible symptoms and/or exposure.

We should hit 90%+ double dose this week and they are doing some popup clinics to get to the rest.

I did finally get around to ordering some fabric masks in anticipation of being back in the office but not sure when that is going to happen. I'm hoping in the next week or two.

Work released the 'plan' but as usual it says **** all. It gives the graphic designers something to do at least I guess

[Cav]

I fail to understand the hysteria regarding the unvaccinated.

There seems to be a notion that the unvaccinated are responsible for spreading the virus. This may well be the case.

But it is also the case that the fully vaccinated are not protected from contracting the virus and indeed they can also pass it on.

[oldel]

Originally Posted by Cav

I fail to understand the hysteria regarding the unvaccinated.

There seems to be a notion that the unvaccinated are responsible for spreading the virus. This may well be the case.

But it is also the case that the fully vaccinated are not protected from contracting the virus and indeed they can also pass it on.

Yeah, some are missing the point and thinking covid will go away if everyone is vaxxed, or unvaxxed are a direct menace.
My only personal issue is that unvaxxed are going to get sicker and end up in hospital, They will clog up the system, force health workers and the system hard, cause hospital lockdowns and staff quarantines, and if you or anyone you know needs hospital for non covid related reasons you may find there will be no beds and the staffing is be an issue because unvaxxed filled the place up.
That's a real possibility, going back to the beginning of the outbreak we were terrified into lockdowns because we didn't want to fill the hospitals up like they were filling up overseas. Today there's no reason to worry except anitvaxxers.

I'm not pro partial opening up with a 2 class system but that's mainly because retail or hospitality staff shouldn't play police and have to deal with those babies. I wouldn't risk assault from morons, low paid untrained workers shouldn't either. Opening up should be done when the gov has the numbers, projections and health system up to scratch to be all or nothing, vaxxed or unvaxxed.
I do hope anitvaxxers with the conviction of saying science and medical experts are bad if the vaccines are bad, so they also stay clear from hospitals too. But they won't, because they're morons.

E: Watched an interesting thing about the spanish flu last week. Reason it was so deadly for 20-40 yr olds was solely because they caught the wrong flu earlier in their lives. The spanish flu is known for being strange because it killed more healthy younger people that the regular flu does.

Answer is the flu is always around - lives in bird populations - occasionally spreads to horse, pigs and humans as a new variant. Humans get exposed as babies and usually survive and we carry those antibodies for the rest of our lives.
Thing is though 1890-1900 was a different variant. The spanish flu (came from horses, came from toronto canada actually), was similar to 1870 flus, old people had that already, they survived. Younger people had a different flu they got in the 1890s, they weren't prepped for the 1918 flu (which had the same H and N proteins*/'spikes' as pre 1880 flus so they often died.

Point is, that's how the vaccines work, expose you to a little bit (or replication of it in mRNAs) to prep you to not get really really sick or die.

I was suprised how flu spreads and it's sources. Makes sense when you hear of bird flu, swine flu etc
*flu is all about the H and N spikes, think H1N1 (the spanish flu was H1N1) the 'h' is to get into cells (the key), the 'n' is to get out of the infected cell to spread.
The 1880 flu was h2, the 1900 flu was h3 so those people had the wrong antibodies for h1 (1870 flu and 1918 "spanish" flu)

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Cav

I fail to understand the hysteria regarding the unvaccinated.

There seems to be a notion that the unvaccinated are responsible for spreading the virus. This may well be the case.

But it is also the case that the fully vaccinated are not protected from contracting the virus and indeed they can also pass it on.

the other problem is you could be sic for 18 days before symptoms arise,
tracing someone is a little late in that respect..

[MITCHAY]

I think these restrictions on the unvaccinated at this point are stupid. Sure if they did it 6 months ago maybe but now I don't get the point and it's perhaps more burden on business. They are not enforcing it here like they do in NSW though I have heard it is a mixed bag over the border

[slowsnake]

Seems to me it's a preventative issue, even if it don't work, it's got to have a mental effect on people to be more careful with hygiene!.....

[T3rminator]

Didn't modelling suggest 90% was "herd immunity" zone? Once achieved, open her up to everyone IMHO.

The conundrum is, if govs declared that now, more than 10% might decide to wait......meaning we'll never achieve 90%.

Vic set to hit 90% first dose tomorrow according to covidlive. QLD, WA and NT still a while off.

[Citroënbender]

I’m watching NSW taper off sharply at only 85% of 16+ candidates. Sunday there was 0,2% increase in total.

If it’s any barometer for how the other states may actually proceed, this is not a good prospect for those holding out for 90%.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Ok, I'll apologise in advance as this is likely to be a lengthy post.

To recap, for those who missed it and to save you going back to look at it, the reason why we were at the hospital in the first place is that my daughter had an adverse reaction to her second Moderna vaccination on Wednesday. Even though I didn't think it was anything serious, when it comes to chest pain, I wasn't going to take a risk, so we decided a trip to the local hospital's Emergency Department was in order.

We arrived at the ED about 6:20am, to find the door to the ED closed and a sign on the window saying that the screening tent (to the side of the ED department door) was closed and if service was required, press the button near the door. We pressed the button, and once the nurse was able to get the screening room window open, she took our details. She asked us to wait outside until they were ready for us. Being a fine, mild morning, that wasn't an issue. Whilst waiting, I text the ex to let her know what was going on. We talked and she said she'd meet us up there.

Shortly after that, we were asked to come inside, entering via the Ambulance entry door, and were shown into a cubicle. As soon as my daughter was settled, I mentioned to the nurse that my ex was due shortly and that I'd wait outside for her. Heading back outside, I waited until the ex arrived, which was only about 10 minutes after we were shown inside. We then rang the bell again, and got shown in. The nurse then said that only one of us was allowed to be inside with our daughter, so I let the ex go in whilst I went back outside to wait.

Whilst waiting I saw a friend, who got caught running between a couple of buildings without her mask (tsk tsk) and had a bit of a chat. Shortly after, my friend, who is one of the infectious control nurses walked past and we had a chat. At about that time, the ex text me to say there had been an announcement over the hospital speakers that there was a code yellow in the hospital, impacting ED, x-ray and surgical ward. As a result, the entire hospital was closed and no one was allowed in or out (including ED where they advised anyone who presented to go to Traralgon or Bairnsdale (about 40 mins away) or see a GP).

With more time to kill, I continued to wait out the front until my mate, who is the hospital electrician, came past, so we chatted for a while. When I had finished, I returned back to where the chairs were out the front of ED and the gent who had been waiting out the front with me for a while told me that he had been told not to go anywhere as, after being inside, he was potentially a close contact to a covid patient and to await further advice.

Talking to my nurse friend later, what had happened was that a patient had come in late Wednesday night, with a broken limb. At that point he had no covid symptoms. He'd gone to x-ray and then on to surgical ward to have the break repaired. He had then shown covid signs, been tested, and the positive result had come through just before the code yellow was called. He had not been in ED for about 5 hours before we got there. My friend said all hell had broken loose just after she walked in the doors after having stopped to talk to me.

That was a little before 8. The covid patient turned out to be in the cubicle next to the one my daughter was in. Whilst the daughter and ex were there, cleaners were called in to do a deep clean, which had no reason to be conducted until the positive result had come back.

At about 11, the ex was talked to by the manager of the ED, providing detail as to what was going on and that, because no deep cleaning had been done before they were in the cubicle, they needed to isolate for 14 days. They provided the contact details for the Latrobe Regional Hospital, where the Gippsland Public Health Unit which manages covid issues throughout Gippsland, were located and we could get further info from. They also advised that formal contact from the DHHS would be forthcoming.

With that, they were let out of ED. Yet, no one talked to me at all about what I needed to do given that I had been inside with my daughter, albeit for no more than 5 minutes. So, I went and rang the bell for service and asked the nurse if I needed to isolate. She asked if I had been inside, which I responded yes to, and she looked confused. She came back in a minute or so and asked me to write down my contact details on a blank piece of paper! I said to her that if the info was for my nurse friend, that she was a personal friend and would know my contact details if they needed anything further.

We went home and started to isolate. Later that night, my nurse friend contacted me to advise that both the ex and I only needed to isolate for 7 days, as we are both double vacced, with a PCR test required on day 6. However, because my daughter had only received her second dose the day before, she was considered to be non-fully vacced and needed to isolate for 14 days with a PCR test on day 13. She advised that DHHS would be in contact with us to formalise the arrangement, but don't expect anything within 48 hours as they were under the pump.

So, we've been in iso since about lunchtime Thursday, which is day 0. My daughter is staying with me, and since it will be nigh on impossible for us to not interact after 7 days when I could otherwise be out of iso, I'll iso for 14 days. Plus, I can WFH whereas the ex works in a pharmacy so can't WFH. Therefore, the ex will just do the 7 days. She was contacted by the LRH PHU yesterday, but still hasn't received anything in writing which would allow her to claim the covid assistance. Doesn't bother me as I'll be working through the iso time anyway.

But, I still haven't heard anything from DHHS, apart from my nurse friend. No text, no phone call. Nothing. I know they are busy and probs overwhelmed, but how long do I have to wait? What if I did need the formal notification so I could claim covid assistance to make ends meet?

It's been an interesting experience, that's for sure. My feeling is that everything seemed to be chaotic. My nurse friend told me that the hospital lockdown this time around was much better than their first one, which was only the week before our exposure. I told her that things seemed a little disjointed, but she assured me that there were things going on in the background that wouldn't have been disclosed to me. Like when I called LRH to get some advise after we got back from the hospital. They gave me no indication that they even knew the hospital was an exposure site and the lady actually told me to go and get a covid test that day. When I asked her if that was too soon given that I was only exposed that morning, she responded with "oh, yeah, that's probably the case. Maybe just leave it until tomorrow."

If our case is the way all exposure sites in Victoria are handled, I can see why covid is spreading. I could have quite easily just not isolated at all and whilst the risk of me having got covid is very small given our exposure circumstances, the flow-on effects from me not isolating could have been significant.

[jaydee]

Mate you've definitely been you know what with a pineapple.
I admire your internal fortitude dealing with this, good luck and hope your daughter recovers OK .

[Trevor 57]

Well you might not be hearing about Shepp on the news but it is all happening here, a bus driver infected kids from about 5 or 6 schools

My daughter got notified (yes same daughter) that her daughter (my grand-daughter) is a Tier 1 - some ****ing rattle-head crack-heads sent their kid to school with 'cold like symptoms', teacher did **** all about it, didn't send the kid home, not enforcing face masks (my grand-daughter wears one all the time at aschool) and 'nek minnit' . . . . . . . .

I think we are up in the hundreds of active cases

[buggerlugs]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-...d-19/100561090

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-...d-19/100561090

One of my sisters is a head ICU nurse @ a large Melbourne hospital and the stories she has told of the final hours of the unvaccinated is as reported. The pleading, the bargaining for their lives when it finally hits that they are dying. All too late.

[Trevor 57]

I am having a HUGE LOL moment this morning, the media is going nuts over the Victorian Government proposal to move powers from the CHO to the Health Minister

umm, hey MSM look at NSW, they have been operating like this since the start of the pandemic

****ing idiot media

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

I am having a HUGE LOL moment this morning, the media is going nuts over the Victorian Government proposal to move powers from the CHO to the Health Minister

umm, hey MSM look at NSW, they have been operating like this since the start of the pandemic

****ing idiot media

The bit they seem to be going nuts over is the Victorian Premier being able to declare a Pandemic. Haven't been able to see if that is accurate, but I if it is I don't think that he or she would be qualified to declare a worldwide event.

I don't see a need to change the way emergency powers are accessed.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

I am having a HUGE LOL moment this morning, the media is going nuts over the Victorian Government proposal to move powers from the CHO to the Health Minister

umm, hey MSM look at NSW, they have been operating like this since the start of the pandemic

****ing idiot media

Yes I mentioned this bill a couple of weeks ago. SOE was extended until mid December then this new bill will kick in. There will be greater transparency on health advice, with an independent body to scrutinise, BUT they won't have veto power. The thing that worries me the most is.....the sitting premier at the time can call the "pandemic", then the rules kick into place. That is outrageous IMHO. The determination of a pandemic should be called by a health body.

[Citroënbender]

I don’t see why it can’t be slated to the state Governor. The Premier or others can meet and recommend, but it is not binding.

To allow a change as proposed, takes Victoria closer to a situation where “health reasons” become simply an excuse to restrict people.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

I don’t see why it can’t be slated to the state Governor. The Premier or others can meet and recommend, but it is not binding.

To allow a change as proposed, takes Victoria closer to a situation where “health reasons” become simply an excuse to restrict people.

It'll bring us closer to NSW. Still just a proposal at this stage, and will need to pass parliament still, but they are making concessions to get the indies over.

As you said, it doesn't sound like its just for pandemics, it can be invoked for any public health "crisis".

So I'm thinking climate change.....sporadic stay at home orders or density limits to reduce emissions / pollution.

Where's my tin foil hat?

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

It'll bring us closer to NSW. Still just a proposal at this stage, and will need to pass parliament still, but they are making concessions to get the indies over.

As you said, it doesn't sound like its just for pandemics, it can be invoked for any public health "crisis".

So I'm thinking climate change.....sporadic stay at home orders or density limits to reduce emissions / pollution.

Where's my tin foil hat?

Hello T3, mate these idiots running the state and commonwealth health system are treading water, none of them have a long plan, and their short plan about any decision making is thought upon the spot.

Think I need a tin foil hat too? Where do you buyem!....lol

[Trevor 57]

Is this happening already in NSW - if so, why are people (media) going nuts

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Is this happening already in NSW - if so, why are people (media) going nuts

Probably because NSW has shown itself to be less inclined to overuse these powers.

That still doesn't make it a good change though.

[Trevor 57]

and as seen recently, make changes without the consent/approval/sanction of the CHO

[T3rminator]

Interesting data on stringency index across the world. Not sure how accurate it is. As at 25 Oct, notable countries that rank ABOVE (more strict) Australia includes.... Russia, India, United States?!, Israel, Malaysia, Hong Kong, Italy, France, Canada, Greece, China....with New Zealand topping them all at rank 6.

"The stringency index is a composite measure based on nine response indicators including school closures, workplace closures, and travel bans, rescaled to a value from 0 to 100 (100 = strictest). If policies vary at the subnational level, the index shows the response level of the strictest subregion."

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/c...ndex?tab=table

[slowsnake]

Hey T3, do they work it out at all based on population per square kilometre, or per metre in some countries?
I mean regional New Zealand would be less populated than say Moscow, does that come into account!

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

Hey T3, do they work it out at all based on population per square kilometre, or per metre in some countries?
I mean regional New Zealand would be less populated than say Moscow, does that come into account!

I have no idea. I don't think its based on population density. Its just a set of questions to determine what has been shut and what has been open, and freedom of movement. Doesn't care how populated you are. The index takes the strickest lock down region within a country, which is why I think NZ comes out right up the top.

[slowsnake]

Had a conversation yesterday with 4 others present, I was the only one double vaxxed.
3 of the 4 work both full-time and 1 part-time, 1 is 29 yrs old, slight autism but drives a landcruiser and owns a 2012 Holden SS Thunder ute, so smart enough to get a car licence, excavator and truck licence, but not smart enough to understand that he needs a vaccination against covid!.....he is fit as a mallee bull, tae kwon do twice a week, black belt, but on a disability pension?

Another is 38 yrs old, is a driller out in the bush, asked me as did the others if they could be exempt from vaccination on religious grounds?...I don't know, does anyone here know of any exemptions on any grounds?

Another works full-time as a welder, boss told him no vaccination by December 1st, then no job?..this guy has an IQ 140 plus, but as you know IQ does not equal common sense, I was gobsmacked as to why?...why they dident want to be vaccinated as a matter of general future health, I explained that when WA opens its borders everyone not vaccinated cannot even go shopping in Woolworths or Coles or event he local chemist, I can't get through to them.

The last my mate Brooke, has all kinds on physical and mental health issues, she's 42 yrs old and works 3 daysa week as a dishwasher in a burger joint, her boss gave her and the other workers the same vaccination ultimatum, vaccinated or no job.

Now instead of getting the covid vax, and they have seen me and been around me for both my Pfizer shots, they know my health is not tip top, but I'm in front of their eyes looking at them as a walking talking survivor of the Pfizer vaccine shot, they can see it has done no harm to me.

So if iknow 4 people like that, then everyone here must know similar people, how do I get through to them?...

It's very sad, all of them are social media geeks, I'm not, I can only assume the world wide Web is the biggest issue or problem to society!
They have this idea we in WA are safe, and we are for now, but next year when WA opens up, well we are gone, the health system cannot cope now, and that is the only reason our border is shut, the WA health system cannot cope now, not post border opening!

[rare ss]

I wonder how WA sits on that ranking