2009 Sales Figures - Page 5

Brazen · 09-02-2010, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Now that would be worth something and perhaps, a better use of funds than a wagon...

Ah well in a perfect world we would have a Ecoboost and a new wagon. Holden has shown how incredibly successful a wagon and SUV combination can be in the marketplace - Sportwagon and Captiva. Instead of taking sales away from each other they sell 150% of Territory's volume......each!

Look at the marketplace, even tradional luxury cars are turning into versatile load and people carries, the 5 series GT hatch shows that people dont want the boring three box sedan as much anymore. The sheer amount of SUVs and hatches taking traditional sedan sales should be a sign of concern. VW sells more Passat wagons than sedans, Subura sells more Liberty wagons than sedans, Mazda6 hatch sells more than sedan, Mondeo sedan cancelled due to overwhelming preference for the hatch, almost 40% of Commodores are wagons.

Leave the family sedans for the Hertz rental or government dept carpark, high end/sports/luxury wagons and hatches will get the private dollar more and more into the future.

jpd80 · 09-02-2010, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Ah well in a perfect world we would have a Ecoboost and a new wagon. Holden has shown how incredibly successful a wagon and SUV combination can be in the marketplace - Sportwagon and Captiva. Instead of taking sales away from each other they sell 150% of Territory's volume......each!

Originally, Ford felt that most wagon buyers had migrated over to RWD Territory
and that was the reason the FG Wagon was not part of the program. If these former
wagon buyers have moved on then Ford needs to review their strategy and recover them

If the new Territory diesel is available in RWD, we may see a huge surge in popularity
as perceived heavy fuel consumption is removed from the buyer's radar.
The flash new body will help no end with sales, we all remember how stale BF sales were by 2008....

vztrt · 10-02-2010, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Holden has shown how incredibly successful a wagon and SUV combination can be in the marketplace - Sportwagon and Captiva. Instead of taking sales away from each other they sell 150% of Territory's volume......each!

It has taken away from Commodore sedan sales.

Brazen · 10-02-2010, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

It has taken away from Commodore sedan sales.

Many Mondeo members on this forum, traded in a Falcon or cross-shopped it with a Falcon, yet they still sell it alongside the Falcon.
Many Territory members on this forum, traded in a Falcon or cross-shopped it with a Falcon, yet they still sell it alongside the Falcon.

Sometimes manufacturers accept a car will be substituted with one of its own, and sometimes they have to do it stop the customer wandering away to someone else.

jpd80 · 10-02-2010, 08:52 PM

What is important is that both Ford and Holden identify market needs that they can fill with products.
I think Russel mentioned that 13% of Commodore sales now come via high series Sportwagon versions,
that sounds like a very profitable niche even if it's about 7,000 sales a year.
A similar thing appears to be happening with Territory sales mix, maybe Ford and Holden aren't so different...

Joe5619 · 10-02-2010, 09:36 PM

One thing EVERY seems to assume is that, if Holden can sell 1200-1500 large RWD sports wagons per month, then Ford should be able to sell 1200-1500 large RWD sports wagons per month as well (if they built one). What happens if there is only 1200 to 1500 large RWD sports wagon sales a month in the market? Then both Holden & Ford are left to fight for these sales (say 600 to 750 each a month). All of sudden the Large RWD Wagon does not look so good.. Just a thought!!

Brazen · 10-02-2010, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

One thing EVERY seems to assume is that, if Holden can sell 1200-1500 large RWD sports wagons per month, then Ford should be able to sell 1200-1500 large RWD sports wagons per month as well (if they built one). What happens if there is only 1200 to 1500 large RWD sports wagon sales a month in the market? Then both Holden & Ford are left to fight for these sales (say 600 to 750 each a month). All of sudden the Large RWD Wagon does not look so good.. Just a thought!!

Yeah that is a valid argument, but I think such healthy numbers suggest a market exists. And the most important thing is that new competitive entrants draw customers into the segment.

Say they sell 150,000 small cars a year at the moment amongst 20 players, if over night every small car stopped being sold except for the Kia Cerato, the Cerato wouldnt automatically get 150,000 sales, as most of the sales are caused by people being drawn into one of the 20 cars on sale. So the more healthy competitors the more customers it creates.

Its also why you see car dealers grouped together on main roads, instead of dividing the amount of customers each dealer gets, it actually draws more customers into all of the dealers.

Having two great wagons competing with each other will create and stimulate further sales in wagons.

I also think that a new large Falcon wagon would gain a lot of sales due to its larger cargo area, I can imagine a lot of people going to look at a Commodore wagon and wanting more room, they go across the road to Ford and bingo they sign for a new Falcon wagon.

Likewise Holden lost a lot of sales with no more LPG in wagon, an updated falcon would grab those sales.

Holden has done the hard (and expensive) task of making the humble wagon come back on peoples shopping lists. Ford can ride the coat tails of this with a much superior product.

vztrt · 11-02-2010, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Many Mondeo members on this forum, traded in a Falcon or cross-shopped it with a Falcon, yet they still sell it alongside the Falcon.
Many Territory members on this forum, traded in a Falcon or cross-shopped it with a Falcon, yet they still sell it alongside the Falcon.

Sometimes manufacturers accept a car will be substituted with one of its own, and sometimes they have to do it stop the customer wandering away to someone else.

Mondeo is selling less then the Falcon wagon.

The figure's have shown over the years that Terri sales have gone up but Wagon has diminished. This is why the Falcon Wagon has been on the chopping block since 2006. Ford WILL NOT do a fancy wagon, its too big of a risk for the money spent. At best it'll be another fleet hack that will run a euro 4 engine.

sd1800 · 11-02-2010, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business...rom=public_rss

Hats off to Holden's marketing team.

To add some humour to this thread, I couldn't help but notice this in the comments section. Surely it's a ********-take(south yarra? dad buys her a audi?):

" Charlotte S of South Yarra Posted at 12:53 PM January 06, 2010
LOL @ all the bogans in their Commodores... losers with a capital L... my Dad just bought me a new Audi and its awesome... get a real car, you uncultured bums."

music189 · 12-02-2010, 12:49 AM

Have a look at the latest Go Auto magazine
it breaks down the sales figures by model makes an interesting read especially the graph at the end

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2576C4001687FD

jpd80 · 12-02-2010, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by music189

Have a look at the latest Go Auto magazine
it breaks down the sales figures by model makes an interesting read especially the graph at the end

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2576C4001687FD

The difference as I see it is that Holden has Commodore Sedan, Ute, Sportswagon and Captiva
while Ford has Falcon Sedan, Ute, Territory and an uncompetitive BF III Station Wagon.

Ford needs to skip fleet sales and start building FG Wagons in XR and G Series,
there's serious money and sales to be made on top of a refreshed Territory....

Joe5619 · 12-02-2010, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

The difference as I see it is that Holden has Commodore Sedan, Ute, Sportswagon and Captiva
while Ford has Falcon Sedan, Ute, Territory and an uncompetitive BF III Station Wagon.

Ford needs to skip fleet sales and start building FG Wagons in XR and G Series,
there's serious money and sales to be made on top of a refreshed Territory....

I dont agree.. Some poeple seem to think Ford has an endless amount of money to build every car they want.. Captiva is not built here so it does not cost Holden anything.. Ford either build a Falcon Sport Wagon or they built the Territory, they can't do both. With the large car making going downwards & SVU's going upwards, Territory is the way to go.. Forget Wagon people, just forget!!

cosmo20btt · 12-02-2010, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Mondeo is selling less then the Falcon wagon.

Mondeo is not a Falcon wagon and I think a lot of people can see that, as well as Mondeo is slightly tarnished from the 90's model.

cosmo20btt · 12-02-2010, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I dont agree.. Some poeple seem to think Ford has an endless amount of money to build every car they want.. Captiva is not built here so it does not cost Holden anything.. Ford either build a Falcon Sport Wagon or they built the Territory, they can't do both. With the large car making going downwards & SVU's going upwards, Territory is the way to go.. Forget Wagon people, just forget!!

If the Terri gets bad press now with all the Media jumping all over Car Companies,and Ford cannot afford any bad publicity at the moment. It would have to make Ford think twice about the wagon because nothing good may have been said about it , but nothing bad about it either. Ford may be better off killing the Terri and just importing another model, Edge maybe. This will free up room for upgraded wagons like G6 or even G8.

Joe5619 · 12-02-2010, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmo20btt

If the Terri gets bad press now with all the Media jumping all over Car Companies,and Ford cannot afford any bad publicity at the moment. It would have to make Ford think twice about the wagon because nothing good may have been said about it , but nothing bad about it either. Ford may be better off killing the Terri and just importing another model, Edge maybe. This will free up room for upgraded wagons like G6 or even G8.

When the Terri was new it was selling 2K+ per month. The SUV market has grown since then, which means when the new terri comes out we could be looking at much bigger sales than 2K+ per month. The Holden sports wagon has only sold 1.2K per month in a marketing that is now getting less. Ford would be CRAZY to kill Terri & keep the Wagon.. CRAZY.. If I was making the calls at Ford I know which one I'd go for.. But everyone is allowed to have an opinion.

T/T may run of negative story tonight, which they do all the time to lots of makes. But Territ will get over it!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmo20btt

Mondeo is not a Falcon wagon and I think a lot of people can see that, as well as Mondeo is slightly tarnished from the 90's model.

I'm also not buying that a car in the 90's (3 decades ago) could have a great effect on sales now. It sold in small numbers away, so it couldn't have effect that many people anyway. The 90’s was when Ford was very much considered the “Falcon” company, so I’d say Falcon did more damage than Mondeo.

cosmo20btt · 12-02-2010, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

When the Terri was new it was selling 2K+ per month. The SUV market has grown since then, which means when the new terri comes out we could be looking at much bigger sales than 2K+ per month. The Holden sports wagon has only sold 1.2K per month in a marketing that is now getting less. Ford would be CRAZY to kill Terri & keep the Wagon.. CRAZY.. If I was making the calls at Ford I know which one I'd go for.. But everyone is allowed to have an opinion.

T/T may run of negative story tonight, which they do all the time to lots of makes. But Territ will get over it!!

Agreed as Terri diesel will invigorate sales, but thats a year or two away, but what they could do short term would be slight mods on lines of BF III wagon that are upper market, even just to test the waters of the market Ford might be surprised what might happen.
Being in the close to fifty bracket,a lot of friends have wagons, but are all talking Commodore hatches as they are the nearest to what they want, not one of them even wants a Terri which is a shame, as it is a nice truck... get it truck thats why they don't want one. They want a car derivative

Joe5619 · 12-02-2010, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmo20btt

Agreed as Terri diesel will invigorate sales, but thats a year or two away, short term would be slight mods on lines of BF III wagon that are upper market, even just to test the waters of the market Ford might be surprised what might happen.

Now I think your dreaming.. Any "real" changes to the Wagon would be 12-18 months away, Ford only have 5 months to make those changes (Euro V). No point making up spec models on the BF shape.. This can only happen in FG shape IMO.

cosmo20btt · 12-02-2010, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Now I think your dreaming.. Any "real" changes to the Wagon would be 12-18 months away, Ford only have 5 months to make those changes (Euro V). No point making up spec models on the BF shape.. This can only happen in FG shape IMO.

No I am being realistic as I highly doubt that they will make a new FG wgn, so they either test the market or send wgn out with a bang.
Remember Australia had to run with an XD ute chassis for around twenty years before a design emerged to replace it, Ford might do it again.

vztrt · 12-02-2010, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmo20btt

Mondeo is not a Falcon wagon and I think a lot of people can see that, as well as Mondeo is slightly tarnished from the 90's model.

Mondeo is overpriced and in a segment that has not grown or shrunk in the last 10 years. As for tarnished people wont even remember the old Mondeo.

cosmo20btt · 12-02-2010, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Mondeo is overpriced and in a segment that has not grown or shrunk in the last 10 years. As for tarnished people wont even remember the old Mondeo.

I still know people driving them.

vztrt · 12-02-2010, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmo20btt

I still know people driving them.

Well they obviously are spending big on cars then....

4Vman · 12-02-2010, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Mondeo is overpriced and in a segment that has not grown or shrunk in the last 10 years. As for tarnished people wont even remember the old Mondeo.

Hate to say it but the Mazda 6 eclipses the mondeo in nearly everything too, the 6 wagon is the best looking mid sized wagon on the market now.

jpd80 · 12-02-2010, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I dont agree.. Some poeple seem to think Ford has an endless amount of money to build every car they want.. Captiva is not built here so it does not cost Holden anything.. Ford either build a Falcon Sport Wagon or they built the Territory, they can't do both. With the large car making going downwards & SVU's going upwards, Territory is the way to go.. Forget Wagon people, just forget!!

You forget funding was diverted from Fairlane/LTD to Territory development, not from the Station wagon.
Holden's design team did a lot of work on Captiva and yes, it does cost them money for the Australian versions.

vztrt · 12-02-2010, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

the 6 wagon is the best looking mid sized wagon on the market now.

I agree with this, too bad it isn't rwd!! lol

4Vman · 12-02-2010, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

I agree with this, too bad it isn't rwd!! lol

YES!! If the Mazda 6 was RWD and/or the diesel option was avaliable with an auto it would be a big seller..

naddis01 · 13-02-2010, 11:19 AM

Mazda 6 will soon undergo a facelift and along with this will be getting extra features. Which will go some way to negating one of the few advantages Mondeo has over the 6. They are also adding a higher spec wagon to the lineup. On a side note IIRC the Mazda 6 Classic wagon is/was the single most popular model in the Mazda 6 lineup. We are going to be ordering a Mazda 6 diesel wagon when we can get details of the specs of the facelifted model and especially those of the new Touring model. The main thing we want to find out is if the Touring will be available in the diesel.