Fined for crossing railway crossing too early - Page 5

Joshvee · 07-07-2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

A guy told me that he was racing a UFO across australia, but he got hung up in traffic in adelaide and the UFO was in the lead, it ended up the UFO got caught at ayers rock (as it was known back then) and he managed to dive back in front of it. As he dived just in front, the UFO driver leaned out the window and gave him all 10 thumbs up.

Not saying you were not told that story, just doubt the "guy" gave a correct account.

slo_crossflow · 07-07-2009, 08:32 PM

ahh but there is a video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rDFMjlUP0Q

geckoGT · 07-07-2009, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slo_crossflow

ahh but there is a video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rDFMjlUP0Q

maybe so, but then there is this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekpD06P7kiI&NR=1

and this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4jww...eature=related

This one is a good reason not to play with trains, don't worry, nothing gooey

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUNZO1Xti1E&NR=1

Ralliart · 07-07-2009, 09:34 PM

i won't cross untill all red lights have stopped flashing.

Teflon Turbo · 07-07-2009, 09:44 PM

some food for thought, sometimes the boom gates might not work and the train can come through. while you may have not been in the wrong, you're dead now!

geckoGT · 07-07-2009, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FG_OG

some food for thought, sometimes the boom gates might not work and the train can come through. while you may have not been in the wrong, you're dead now!

Excellent point, technology sometimes fails

JG66ME · 07-07-2009, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FG_OG

some food for thought, sometimes the boom gates might not work and the train can come through. while you may have not been in the wrong, you're dead now!

They are FAIL SAFE

JG66ME · 07-07-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Excellent point, technology sometimes fails

THEY ARE FAIL SAFE

geckoGT · 07-07-2009, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG66ME

They are FAIL SAFE

Yeah, so are aircraft control systems, space shuttle launches and the titanic was unsinkable etc

JG66ME · 07-07-2009, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Yeah, so are aircraft control systems, space shuttle launches and the titanic was unsinkable etc

Well I am sure you know

geckoGT · 07-07-2009, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG66ME

Well I am sure you know

What is your point?

Many planes have crashed through system failures, a space shuttle spread itsel all over florida and the titanic sunk on its maiden voyage, these are all common knowledge.

Having dealt with military weaponry for 13 years including very expensive guided missile weapons systems (anti tank operator), I learnt that even the safest technology can fail. To believe any system can not fail is foolish.

JG66ME · 07-07-2009, 10:01 PM

And what have planes, missiles, space shuttles and the Titanic have to do with Railway Signalling?

Stick to what you know, expert.

geckoGT · 07-07-2009, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG66ME

And what have planes, missiles, space shuttles and the Titanic have to do with Railway Signalling?

Stick to what you know, expert.

They all involve electronics, mechanical processes and an element of human error, do we really need to discuss this any more?

AUIII · 07-07-2009, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FG_OG

some food for thought, sometimes the boom gates might not work and the train can come through. while you may have not been in the wrong, you're dead now!

Good point when I learnt to drive I was told to do a quick look left and right before proceeding same at intersection just because you have a green light doesnt mean the person approaching the red is going to stop.

JG66ME · 07-07-2009, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

For a start, your tone is not real good, enough said on that.

They all involve electronics, mechanical processes and an element of human error, do we really need to discuss this any more?

Is that right? Please argue your point in full detail.

Tell me how an aircraft fails

Tell me about the failure modes of a signalling system that causes a train crash and a level crossing accident.

geckoGT · 07-07-2009, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG66ME

Is that right? Please argue your point in full detail.

Tell me how an aircraft fails

Tell me about the failure modes of a signalling system that causes a train crash and a level crossing accident.

Tell me how the tilt train derailled, let it go, please.

Pinkbits · 07-07-2009, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG66ME

They are FAIL SAFE

I have witnessed in the last 4 weeks where a broken trip arm on the west line in the down direction at Maidstone St caused the booms at Maidstone St & Kororoit Crk rd to stay down excessively. After they raised and when the next up pass tripped past the auto's the booms would not activate unless i used the test switch.
The system did what it was designed to do that is maintain all signals at stop. But i thought the crossing would have still activated though.

JG66ME · 07-07-2009, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Tell me how the tilt train derailled, let it go, please.

I know how the tilt train derailed.

The ATP system was TURNED OFF

It didn't fail it was turned off.

JG66ME · 07-07-2009, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkbits

I have witnessed in the last 4 weeks where a broken trip arm on the west line in the down direction at Maidstone St caused the booms at Maidstone St & Kororoit Crk rd to stay down excessively. After they raised and when the next up pass tripped past the auto's the booms would not activate unless i used the test switch.
The system did what it was designed to do that is maintain all signals at stop. But i thought the crossing would have still activated though.

The crossing will not activate if the protecting signal is at stop.

I would have to look at the SA to understand exactly what happend.

geckoGT · 07-07-2009, 10:36 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUNZO1Xti1E&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCoME...eature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBcHr...eature=related

Do you need more, I am sure I can find some but I do have better things to do.

JG66ME · 07-07-2009, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUNZO1Xti1E&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCoME...eature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBcHr...eature=related

Do you need more, I am sure I can find some but I do have better things to do.

Your first and third video proves me correct and the second is tabloid BS that make no sense to me.

The crossings didn't fail, just idiot car and truck drivers. The whole point of this thread.

geckoGT · 07-07-2009, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG66ME

Your first and third video proves me correct and the second is tabloid BS that make no sense to me.

The crossings didn't fail, just idiot car and truck drivers. The whole point of this thread.

Over it, you are so right, no technology has ever failed or ever will, let it go.

Time to get back on topic.

Teflon Turbo · 07-07-2009, 10:57 PM

here is the reality, my former boss lost his wife and little daughters in the kerrang crash.

JG66ME · 07-07-2009, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Over it, you are so right, no technology has ever failed or ever will

I never said that.

JG66ME · 07-07-2009, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FG_OG

here is the reality, my former boss lost his wife and little daughters in the kerrang crash.

Mate I am so sorry for their loss. That was a horrific tragedy.

That crossing should be grade separated, it is so dangerous.

Teflon Turbo · 07-07-2009, 11:14 PM

when the coppers are in blitz mode and they media back them up and the court of puplic opinion swells, you break that kind of law and you are gone for all money.

i just don't mess with that kind of intensity.

downthetrack · 08-07-2009, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Excellent point, technology sometimes fails

I have'nt yet come across a set of flashing lights/boomgates that have been completely failed ie.Blacked out so they must be fairly reliable. (But stop signs are completely failsafe too, but don't get me started on cane haulout drivers who ignore them).
In the event that I have come across Level crossings that are in failsafe mode I have already had prior knowledge from train control and have been told and been made to acknowledge train speed, this is not optional from a train drivers point of view. I have been made to approach level crossings at no greater than walking pace.

Railway signalling systems are also designed in a failsafe way, If a signal that can stop you is a black out we are required to stop and obtain authority to proceed even if the signal should have been at green. If signal telemetry, track circuiting, points fail, this also causes signals to go to red.
I'll take the security of rail signalling over road signalling anyday of the week.
The worst part about driving trains is having to drive to and from work with all the other barely trained dimwits out on the road.

Sourbastard · 08-07-2009, 09:50 AM

Some of the arguments here are pointless.

If it has moving parts, it can fail.
If it has electronics, it can fail.
If it has a human involved, it can fail.
How often it fails is a quality control issue from the manufacturer, a quality assurance issue from the engineer who installs and maintains it, a procedural issue from those who control it.

When there is the possibility of a human override in the case of a system, that introduces human failure as well. If the system is turned off or left off accidentally, thats a system failure from a procedural perspective. The end result is still no less tragic regardless if it is a wetware failure or a hardware/software failure.

No man made system is indefinitely failure proof and any engineer will tell you so.

And yes, I have seen a train roll through a set of dormant unlit lights here in the Barossa SA. It didnt matter to me where the fault lay, it was clearly a system failure.

Does anyone remember the topic?

Joshvee · 08-07-2009, 12:03 PM

this is just a guess but I think what JG66ME means when he/she says it's fail safe, is that if something goes wrong, the boom gates close. If the gates dont work, they close. If the lights fail or stop flashing, they close. if the bell circuit fails, they close. If the circuit and sensor down the track that detects the approach of a train fails or blows, the gates receive no feedback from them and so they close. If the circuit on the gate that detects all these other circuits fails or receives no feedback from them, the gates close. If the gate motor itself fails the gates fall down and close because thats the way it's engineered. Power holds the gates up.They dont just stay up. So if the power fails, the gates close.
So its safe. There will never be a time when a train comes and the gates stay open.

I think thats what JG66ME means by fail safe.

auMatt · 08-07-2009, 03:43 PM

They are fail safe to a certain extent, but you have vandals also at work etc etc. The system is designed to go into a safe position if things are not operating as it seems, but I have investigated many incidents where a level crossing has failed to operate for a train.

There can be many reasons for it as mentioned mechanical failure etc.

Point is still, it is unlawful, you do it and get caught, pay the consequences. No different to speeding.