E Series??? - Page 5

Gunns · 24-07-2007, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuresm58

These people don't deserve to be here, so lets weed em out.

So when are you leaving?

After a long chat with the Admin team I believe that the 2 forums will co-exist, for different reasons and the club will have to rise above it. People like Rollin, Kenaz, Ghia5L and myself and have been around a long time and have been there and done that, and find it hard to take when people start dribbling sh!t.

Poetic Justice · 24-07-2007, 11:10 PM

I find it pretty unfair that people continue to put pressure on the people who actually spend a lot of their time moderating forums and doing their best to keep the peace. Stirring the pot is useless. All thats been created has been a rift between the E-series Club and the AFF admin.

Unsure of any aspects of the financial sides of E-series being on AFF but if there are no financial implications E-series can consider themselves lucky for the hosting of the fair amount of traffic that would have been used to date.

I think that E-series is of a size now that it cannot continue to be a part of the AFF clan. There is clash of personality, and also clash when seeing the ways each admin side wants to run their forums. AFF are quite obviously a lot stricter, but they have a wider user base to look after than just the E-series side of things.

It's a pity that something so good would be coming to an end - where instead of trying to actively solve the problem on a good club level, there's been a few people creating a forum that just hides from it essentially.

I like both sides of this debate, but hey, I'm just adding my opinion.

As for rodderz post, I only read the beginning of it. You seem to refer to this as just an e-series section? This is a club, not just a forum section. I think there should be a little more consideration on that. I think if it's a specific club, it deserves a little more than to be treated that way.

The thing that I'm most disappointed in is rebellion, and not trying to solve problems.

**russellw** · 24-07-2007, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BI6TIM

Much heated discusion has brought a few things to light, as I see it.

1. A lot of members think there are too many rules. AFF T&C's seem like they were writen for the 40 something's.
2. There seems to be a rivelry between this site and the other when there really shouldn't be.
3. Some people really can't discuss anything without it getting personal.

An excellent summary.

In reply let me say this:

1. The site T&C is written with the view that AFF is for a family audience and as the e-series forums were publicly visible to unregistered visitors (along with a couple of other areas) we have quite possibly been more diligent with ensuring that those criteria were met in those public areas.

That doesn't mean to say that there are not ways of dealing with this because there are - including making the area not publicly visisble or creating a second level area hidden from all but the e-series members. Both of those are technically achieveable and might serve to deal with the concerns of both sides of the debate.

Mind you it would still not be an anything goes area but we would be open to suggestions about what could be relaxed and new members who would be presented with the option box would need to be warned that it could contain content of whatever nature was agreed..

2. I agree with this 100% - at the mopment it is being fuelled by the anti AFF stance being taken by some there but that will wear thin in due course.

Cheers
Russ

needfordspeed · 24-07-2007, 11:14 PM

Let me clarify that all the posts made in this thread under my username were by Sundeep while he stole my account.

Quote:

I just wish Gunns, needforspeed, and various other members who still seem to be able to post here are banned too.

Don't ever hang around any of us again at any future events, your the one that's always nice at cruises and stuff and we all get along well. On the internet it's a different story though isn't it?

About the eseries club, certain members think by weeding out the members that have been banned will make this a better place, maybe for you it will there is no way this forum will ever be as informative as it used to, but what can you do, those members have moved on to another forum which will be what they want it to be.

I my self will be visiting the rest of the forums however probably won't really need to be in the eseries section much anymore as I don't have much interest in this club anymore.

[Tonko] · 24-07-2007, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yahoo189

I agree with parts of what you said. I know that it would be annoying getting cut of like that, but some posts are poorly worded and show little thought. Usually everyone thinks so but a few say so. Ghia5L, Rollin, Kenaz, mrcrackers i agree that they are INCREDIBLY HELPFUL as i have said in my first post, but they are not the only ones who make up the club. There are others... and they DO contribute.

I agree with everything you said there...

They are just the ones that have stuck in my head from the early impressionable days of this forum...

The point is, When i was a new member, wrapped up in the hype of talking to like-minded people and asking questions or making comments then getting shut down or abused via PM dosent really give the best first impressions, I have seen it happen to other new folks who do not get the E-series/Forum structure and they have turned away or not participated because of the select few.

Walkinshaw · 25-07-2007, 12:34 AM

It's quite sad really.

A vast majority of the early part of this thread is full of posts from people who are really scrimping for the slightest clue of what the issues at stake are, let alone impacted by any of this. Clearly issues at hand (raised by this thread) have not been resolved by your 2c. Better to remain quite and thought the fool than speak out and remove all doubt.

Another significant proportion is from shitstirers who don't seem to be able to drag up an ounce of tact to get their point across. Try and rephase your post to get the intended message across, it’ll usually get a far more proactive response

The next group, well, it appears if you sell up and move on you somehow gain a superior position within the community, you must make all others aware of this, and your opinions on the topics at hand (whether they impact on you or not) MUST be voiced. Use this superior position to act “superior” and stay out of the pathetic exchanges above. Trust me you would look far less childish than you currently appear.

(again it seems to be the usual suspects who are able to air diffrences and grevences in a way where issues can get resolved. Good to see some people still have their heads screwed on)

Extremely disappointing to read this entire thread. Usually I'd engage in these discussions (actually discuss events, processes undertaken & what seems important here, whether involvement in another forum constitutes a 'conflict of interest.' Seriously, if you believe someone you instill with moderation powers is so feeble to change the way they operate here due to their association in another group sounds like you made a bad selection to start with, or your faith in people you work with is skin deep. I’m sure these members (and other staff) have had significant input into other forums prior to this new forum starting, however decisions weren't implemented then to remove these positions....odd), however from previous experience they get you (and AFF) absolutely nowhere.

My active involvement has been very limited of late, and well, I'm at the point where I'm glad this is true, as the string of events above (past and present, on both sides of the so called fence) is genuinely something to be ashamed of.

Pathetic.

[Tonko] · 25-07-2007, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

Long rant

I take it you were referring to me in one of those groups.
I only know what Russ has said in this thread, and going by that, they were justified in all action taken.
So i havent seen every post/PM relating to this 'revolution' does that make my (or any other opinion less valid?)
Also, if a new member is attacked/alienated by these 'clique' members, then do you think they will continue to support the club? this does happen BTW

I only ever stated my opinion and experience related to E-series, so if you dont like it, skim over it.

Walkinshaw · 25-07-2007, 12:54 AM

Theres a few groups in my post up there. I'm not going to go arround and point at who's in what group. I'm sure people are well aware where they sit in the scheme of these things.

FGX-351 · 25-07-2007, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rollin

Am I a Neanderthal? I've been around since fordforums.com and I defy anyone to claim that I haven't been a usefull part of the club. If you like I can just take my tutorials and 16 page USEFULL build thread elsewhere.

You have a Renault. Learn to speak french, then go to the Renault forums, and stop slagging off people you don't even know. Sure, some of the banned people liked to stirr, but they also knew a hell of a lot about E-series cars, making them valuable members, if not so much valued by the people they rubbed the wrong way.

Banning 'old' members means removing vast amounts of knowlege from the forums, which is a bad thing IMHO. Banning people that are full of crap and have no idea what they are talking about FTW.

I agree with you dude, you were a great help to me when i had my old EA project/parts car/pos.

BI6TIM · 25-07-2007, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russellw

In reply let me say this:

1. The site T&C is written with the view that AFF is for a family audience and as the e-series forums were publicly visible to unregistered visitors (along with a couple of other areas) we have quite possibly been more diligent with ensuring that those criteria were met in those public areas.

That doesn't mean to say that there are not ways of dealing with this because there are - including making the area not publicly visisble or creating a second level area hidden from all but the e-series members. Both of those are technically achieveable and might serve to deal with the concerns of both sides of the debate.

Mind you it would still not be an anything goes area but we would be open to suggestions about what could be relaxed and new members who would be presented with the option box would need to be warned that it could contain content of whatever nature was agreed..

2. I agree with this 100% - at the mopment it is being fuelled by the anti AFF stance being taken by some there but that will wear thin in due course.

Cheers
Russ

First point of reply, recieved well.

However, the second, I can't agree with. It's not just the anti AFF crew causing all the drama. Yes they have their part to play but it is being kept alive on this site by the ProAFF clan (AntiSunny), members like Yags and PolyAl who just can't let it go.
Guys Sunny's gone, you can relax. Let it go and it will die down.

347_XR8 · 25-07-2007, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rollin

347_XR8 and Yahoo189 - I blush :O

Anytime mate

EFFalcon · 25-07-2007, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russellw

I'm sorry but this is not quite correct. All of the information surrounding the removal of sunny was posted in the area available for Board discussions and you contributed to those discussions yourself.

Sunny the only one removed over this whole issue, of which some were reinstated after having no explanation of why they were banned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by russellw

Likewise you have been directly informed of the changes that have related to you as have all the members impacted and offered an opportunity to discuss the merits of their case.

I was informed after the moderator status was removed, i stated my case in the eseries private area, publicly delaring to you that yes i was admin, yes i had access to both areas and that i had no intention for any wrong doing in eeither forum.
No reply existed

Quote:

Originally Posted by russellw

Your earlier comment in relation to "us" installing moderators to suit our needs is also incorrect as the three selected were all endorsed by the remaining moderator.

And what official position does that remaining moderator have in the club.
They're a moderator on the forum, not a board Member.
Perhaps a question in eseries private asking who to instate would have been more appropriate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by russellw

While on the topic (seeing as you raised it), let me add that it has now been more than 2 weeks since the e-series board was supposed to hold a meeting to discuss these "urgent" issues, which meeting has still not yet actually managed to happen so if I read that correctly we would strill be waiting for your input as a collective group?

Russ

There wasnt much of an urgent issue until moderators were removed, leaving the area with 1 moderator.

mcflux · 25-07-2007, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wulos

Like it or NOT the E series is a part of the Australian Falcon family(and as such an important part of AFF) & NO amount of matyrdom on the behalf of a few that feel like they are the be all to end all of all things E series need to take a long hard look at themselves (You know WHO you are!!!) is going to stop that.
Let me make one thing perfectly clear - Whilst ever I have a say in things here - There will ALWAYS be an E Series section here on AFF!!!

If the E-Series Owners Club were to move their forums base to somewhere else, AFF have many forums already in place which can cover all E-Series queries, which I mentioned in a previous post.

The Pub/Bar for general chit chat
Show 'n' Shine
Project Cars
General Tech
Windsor V8
Ford 6's
Transmission & Driveline
Steering, Suspension & Brakes
Power Adders/ECUs
Post Classic Falcons

etc etc etc

yahoo189: your post made me happy, in the pants!

Bipolar · 25-07-2007, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russellw

That doesn't mean to say that there are not ways of dealing with this because there are - including making the area not publicly visisble or creating a second level area hidden from all but the e-series members. Both of those are technically achieveable and might serve to deal with the concerns of both sides of the debate.

I think this could be a viable option. Anyone else think so? The line seems to be a bit blurry when it comes to the E-Series section versus the E-Series Owners Club. It could reinforce to the AFF public that they are 2 separate entities, and that it is only the forum part of the club that's on AFF.

EFFalcon · 25-07-2007, 10:03 AM

[quoteLike it or NOT the E series is a part of the Australian Falcon family(and as such an important part of AFF) & NO amount of matyrdom on the behalf of a few that feel like they are the be all to end all of all things E series need to take a long hard look at themselves (You know WHO you are!!!) is going to stop that.
Let me make one thing perfectly clear - Whilst ever I have a say in things here - There will ALWAYS be an E Series section here on AFF!!![/quote]

Theres an eseries section on FF.com too... but yeah

**Polyal** · 25-07-2007, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BI6TIM

First point of reply, recieved well.

However, the second, I can't agree with. It's not just the anti AFF crew causing all the drama. Yes they have their part to play but it is being kept alive on this site by the ProAFF clan (AntiSunny), members like Yags and PolyAl who just can't let it go.
Guys Sunny's gone, you can relax. Let it go and it will die down.

Just to set the record straight. I have NEVER been anti-anyone! NEVER have I had a go at anyone first, but Im not going to let something slide if I see another member being hassled for nothing other than a not so insightful post.

But if some are going to continuely post sarcastic replies, "stir the pot" (crap saying BTW) and basically be a nuisance then why should it be allowed? The percentage of people who get banned from this site is very very small compared to the how many thousands are active and seem to have no issues keeping within the T&C. Im struggling to see what was so difficult, you have to be trying pretty hard to get banned as you get several warnings before it happens anyway.

holmsy · 25-07-2007, 04:56 PM

this is a funny thread. it is actually showing me how these forums are actually run.
i always assumed it was a forum for the club being hosted on aff but controlled solely by the eseries board.
i understand that aff needs to keep it clean to suit their terms and conditions etc but surely the eseries board are suitable moderators otherwise they probably wouldn't or shouldn't be in the board.
im now seeing that the eseries section really could be viewed as simply an eseries section not an eseries club section. it just happens that the eseries club use it most.

iv got no real position on the banning etc of certain members as i dont know the full details and don't wish to. but im just learning how the forums are controlled. one step at a time i spose :P

Dezza · 25-07-2007, 05:15 PM

Well, I kept out of this because I was also a member of those other forums, but I've now asked to have my membership removed from there, and they obliged. When a few of those original members were banned (before the boosted e-series site was created), I thought it was a bit rough, but after joining up to boosted e-series, I must say the moderators here did the right thing to ban a number of them (not all of them, but a couple of them). Needless to say, after having to defend the right to own a rather standard looking e-series, and being treated like absolute crap on there, I had enough of it, and am no longer a member of that site.

Anyone who knows me personally would know that I'm a rather shy, friendly person, who tries to make friends with everyone. That wasn't enough for them. Because of my car, I was not welcome. I am now proud to be a member of AFF, and I am never going to that site again.

nommic · 25-07-2007, 05:19 PM

Lots of childish behaviour all round... I'd call it a clash of personalities more than anything. I don't have a long history here, and tend to avoid all the bullshit that goes on, but it was obvious that things were a bit strained lately.

It's a shame really. I prefer to think of e-series as the people I know from the Geelong mini-meets though - that sits with me better than having to decide who is in the right or wrong on these forums.

snypereb · 25-07-2007, 05:29 PM

I think this has gone to far and we are getting no where by by.

I cant see this going anywhere than another massive agrument.

We are a car club not enemies!!

Admin can change this if they want but to me enough is enough.

**russellw** · 25-07-2007, 08:48 PM

Admin has changed this - the thread is here for open discussion.

Russ

MotherNatureVer2 · 25-07-2007, 08:50 PM

Thank you for that russellw.

I think that whilst there has been a few remarks that could be construde in the wrong way in this thread we need it left opened so the members can have their say on something that matters, Their Club.

snypereb · 25-07-2007, 09:25 PM

E-Series section should be ran by e-series. If there is an extra problem AFF mods should consult e-series mods and board to make a conjoined decision. Not just go ahead and do it.

**russellw** · 25-07-2007, 09:49 PM

This thread, for your information, was reopened at the request of the e-series board and in accordance with my stated intention that this thread should stay open.

Cheers
Russ

snypereb · 25-07-2007, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russellw

This thread, for your information, was reopened at the request of the e-series board and in accordance with my stated intention that this thread should stay open.

Cheers
Russ

Was not refering to the thread I was refering to the removal of EFFalcon and jjm for mod status.

Psycho Chicken · 25-07-2007, 10:32 PM

So what's the go with pseudo bans? I don't really care either way, but if you want to ban someone wouldn't it be a better idea to just do it and inform them of it rather then make it so they can't view individual forums and hope they go away?

Or did I miss the memo and pay per view AFF is already up and running?

plext · 25-07-2007, 11:08 PM

There are not psudo bans as you so quaintly put it, but rather a staged approach which allows discussion and review before a ban is placed.

Given that arbritrary actions are something that has been raised, we are attempting to make the process fairer and more transparent by giving people the chance to state their case before being removed and also having review by all Admins to try to obviate the knee jerk reaction which all can be prone to.

Lumpen Proletariat · 26-07-2007, 12:48 AM

Hello All,

I'd like to make a post being what I consider an 'Outsider with Interest'. I've had my E-series for about 15 months and have spent quite some time browsing the ES forums here but have rarely posted.

Maybe the questions posed were simple and I was being ignorant? I am unsure, but the reception was cool to say the least. The was definately a very cliquey atmosphere to the whole shebang. Alot of sniping at people, little digs and general pettyness about the place. Over of all things, cars. As if they're some kind of status symbol. As if they really matter.

Consequently, I rarely posted, only if I was really interested or needed some information badly. I wasn't intimidated, but it just seemed pointless to drop oneself into an ugly arena. I am sure I wasn't the only inactive or rarely contributing browser due to that 'vibe' either.

Cheers,
Lumpy

Psycho Chicken · 26-07-2007, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plext

There are not psudo bans as you so quaintly put it, but rather a staged approach which allows discussion and review before a ban is placed.

Given that arbritrary actions are something that has been raised, we are attempting to make the process fairer and more transparent by giving people the chance to state their case before being removed and also having review by all Admins to try to obviate the knee jerk reaction which all can be prone to.

One would expect members would be informed of such action being taken against them, rather than being left hanging.

I'll do the thinking for you though. I know there's a big red button that deletes all trace of members, can someone push it for me.

Thanatos · 26-07-2007, 08:29 AM

Ok, probably many of you won't remember / know me as I haven't posted here for quite some time (due to my own reasons). However I have not missed a thread that has been posted in here, or for that matter when we were at FF.com or even when we were at i8.com. I have been a moderator here and on FF.com, and was the acting vice president for this club for quite a number of years. I am also a member on the new e a f a l c o n.com forums.

The e-series forums, as long as it is part of AFF, is governed by AFF Admin. Simple as that. There is a gentleman's agreement between the AFF Admin and the E-series Admin that the E-series Admin can have a fair amount of control over their forums, but it's just that: a gentleman's agreement. At the end of the day, the AFF Admin have the last say because it is their site.
I have known all of the 'evil' banned members for many years, have socialised with many of them outside of club, and consider many of them to be great people and friends. However, the fact is that I have personally witnessed some of them break AFF T&C and recieve many warnings before being banned.
Whilst I don't agree with losing such valued members, the fact is that some of them pushed the limits of the T&C and as such paid the price. And because the e-series section is governed by AFF rules, they were punished according to the AFF rules, which is rightly so.
Having said that, I can understand why many of them have done so - sheer frustration! They have been frustrated at the same BS posts that seem to occur and the same idiots posting the same crap over and over. And seeing as they are long standing members, I know many of them have witnessed this also. I have personally witnessed the slow decline into the boring, same-old-same-old threads all the time, and I can understand their frustration.
What seems painfully obvious to me, however, is that the members of the e-series section now require their own T&C, because they seek to have forums that are TRULY their own. They have expanded beyond what the scope of the AFF T&C allows them to do (whether for good or bad).
So, the simple solution as I see it is that they need their own forums, run their way, whether this is hosted on AFF or not is up to AFF Admin I guess.
There needs to be a 'newbie' section for all the same BS questions over and over, as well as an 'Older Members' section where the older members can talk and relax without being bombarded with the same boring all the time.
The appointment of the new moderators for the E-series section by the AFF Admin is just a perfect example of how the AFF Admin ruling over the E-series is touching a nerve. The AFF Admin have every right to do this, however I'm sure, as part of the gentlemen's agreement, they could have made more effort to consult the E-series Board, instead of just the one remaining moderator. Also, perhaps they could have consulted with the likes of EFFalcon before removing his status as moderator, as I have no doubt in my mind that just because he is a moderator on the new forum, does not impact in any way on his ability to moderate these forums.

Cheers,
Dave