Gen F HSV GTS Review, 0-100 in 4.4s

[Glen 5150]

Originally Posted by austyphoon

People need to use some common sense here.

Most magazines/websites get limited time with the cars. It could be for just one day or even a few hours. Not to mention they have deadlines.

They can't just sit around waiting for perfect weather.

Exactly!!!

Things may be closer on a dry track perhaps, personally it doesn't matter to me, there's more to a performance vehicle than the numbers, but in saying that, if those figures on a wet track would of been in FPV's favour most members here would of been all over it like a rash. I've always loved my Ford V8's, (owned 14 of them) but you have to give credit to HSV, FPV finally produce a vehicle in the R-Spec that's of worthy competition, then HSV manage to lift the bar yet again by doing what they do best and have always done by listening to what their buyers and loyal supporters want and producing a vehicle on paper at least, that looks amazing value for money.

[DP GTP]

It would be nice if the Video was a bit more "realistic"...instead of ending up edited to show the result we see.
Owners of the review need to take a few lessons from Top Gear UK....we would then have a fun and enjoyable review!

The HSV is a great car...and Aussie built.
The FPV R-Spec is a great car....and Aussie built.
We are a lucky bunch to be able to enjoy them...for the time being.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by austyphoon

People need to use some common sense here.

Most magazines/websites get limited time with the cars. It could be for just one day or even a few hours. Not to mention they have deadlines.

They can't just sit around waiting for perfect weather.

Not only that but when they go to a track it is isn't something they can always just decide over night, at times they need to book the track well in advance depending on how much exclusivity they want.

[Chopped]

12.7 1/4 mile on a wet road !!
I like to see what the GTS can do on a dry drag strip

The review says that the GTS was struggling for grip for the first third of the track. They said the GT was launching harder but just couldn't hold off the GTS.
It also says the GT was breaking traction with drop down gear change at 120kp/h (yikes)

Enjoy and respect both cars, they will be remembered as the pinnacle of Aussie Muscle cars in generations to come.

[40RDT]

12.7 on a wet road is impressive, those continental tyres must be damn good

[BHDOGS]

Im not sure what im seeing here my mates eb fairmont does 13.4 in the dry thats the slowest rspect in the world

[Rob 351]

I think anyone who is fortunate to have driven a SC 335, knows that it's hard enough to get traction in the dry & it simply doesn't happen in damp conditions. They are impossible in any sort of damp conditions!!
While I predict the GTS to be still faster in dry conditions, the Rspec will be much closer.

[GTP534]

I don't really care what the GTS can do, I'm not going to get one but kudos to HSV for producing it.

I love my R-SPEC; best car I've ever owned and gives me a thrill every time I drive it!!

[Rodge]

I think anyone who is fortunate to have driven a SC 335, knows that it's hard enough to get traction in the dry & it simply doesn't happen in damp conditions. They are impossible in any sort of damp conditions!!

Totally agree. Dunlop Sport Maxx tyres are anything but the last word in traction especially in the wet, should fit some of the new hoops I've got and that would probably even things up. I can't see the point in comparing these cars in the wet...effectivly just turns the thing into a tyre comparison test

[XW-BAXR6T]

Originally Posted by Chopped

12.7 1/4 mile on a wet road !!
Enjoy and respect both cars, they will be remembered as the pinnacle of Aussie Muscle cars in generations to come.

What is missing now is a GT HO....

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by Rob 18

I think anyone who is fortunate to have driven a SC 335, knows that it's hard enough to get traction in the dry & it simply doesn't happen in damp conditions. They are impossible in any sort of damp conditions!!
While I predict the GTS to be still faster in dry conditions, the Rspec will be much closer.

Good tyres help!

[The FOMOCO]

I heard the car had a 5 Lt Ford engine put in it true story !!

[AGS302]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Totally agree. Dunlop Sport Maxx tyres are anything but the last word in traction especially in the wet, should fit some of the new hoops I've got and that would probably even things up. I can't see the point in comparing these cars in the wet...effectivly just turns the thing into a tyre comparison test

I don't see what the problem everyone has with the standard Dunlops. There has been plenty of stock GT's running 12.3 with the Dunlop Sport Maxx tyres which IIRC no one has posted a better standard time even using "Better" Tyres.

[manny.miner]

Originally Posted by AGS302

I don't see what the problem everyone has with the standard Dunlops. There has been plenty of stock GT's running 12.3 with the Dunlop Sport Maxx tyres which IIRC no one has posted a better standard time even using "Better" Tyres.

I agree mate. I still run them and rate them. Each to their own I guess.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2

[Rodge]

Dunlops are a pretty good tyre in the dry in my opinion but there are far better dry weather tyres such as the new Michelin Pilot Super Sports. Happy to post independent tyre tests showing the rating of highest quality tyres like Trev and I have got if you wish.
The new hoops i've just got are unbeatable in the wet and the R Spec could have spanked the GTS if it was fitted with Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2 tyres which are the benchmark for wet weather grip.

I understand magazine publishing deadlines and the need to use a small window of opportunity when they have access to both cars, the track e.t.c. but the weather makes the performance comparison all but meaningless IMO.

[austyphoon]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Dunlops are a pretty good tyre in the dry in my opinion but there are far better dry weather tyres such as the new Michelin Pilot Super Sports. Happy to post independent tyre tests showing the rating of highest quality tyres like Trev and I have got if you wish.
The new hoops i've just got are unbeatable in the wet and the R Spec could have spanked the GTS if it was fitted with Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2 tyres which are the benchmark for wet weather grip.

I understand magazine publishing deadlines and the need to use a small window of opportunity when they have access to both cars, the track e.t.c. but the weather makes the performance comparison all but meaningless IMO.

Love how the excuses start coming out. "if the R-Spec had this", "if it were dry". The fact is it doesn't. Tyres can also be changed on the GTS as well.

Nothing leads me to believe that the GT would be closer in the dry. Chopped mentioned that the GT got the better launch and that the GTS had no traction for a 1/3rd of the track yet still reeled it on. That's only going to get worse in the dry when the GTS does have traction.

[manny.miner]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Dunlops are a pretty good tyre in the dry in my opinion but there are far better dry weather tyres such as the new Michelin Pilot Super Sports. Happy to post independent tyre tests showing the rating of highest quality tyres like Trev and I have got if you like

There's always the trade off.......excellent dry weather adhesion means compound is soft like butter. Horses for courses, it really depends on your application.

I find the Dunlops excellent for my purpose. I avoid wet weather in my car but if I'm caught in it, my tyres are more than capable.

I agree with AGS302 in that people have run awesome times on the standard tyres. I'm sold.

Come over and I'll show you a real world test :p


Sent from my Fg GT

[mcnews]

It's not actually. Dunlops are completely ridiculous when even nearing half worn, on both my F6s and my GT-E I couldn't wait to change them. The Michelin Supersports I have, have hugely increased levels of grip in both wet and dry, in the wet they are incredible. And they have a treadwear rating 25 per cent longer than the Dunlops.... They still look virtually like new and have already done the same kilometres that the Dunlops had done when they were returning pathetic levels of grip and had to be changed.

As for the wet, a big part of modern tyre technology involves compounds and silica levels that actually act chemically to repel water on contact, technology is improving at an amazing rate. The Dunlops have been left behind. The same goes for dry grip also, technology is improving at an amazing rate and combining previously unheard levels of grip with excellent wear rates.

This is not said in defence of the GT in relation to the HSV, it is tyre talk. For the record, I believe the HSV is probably by far the better car hands down.

[Nikked]

That video was suss...looked like he touched the brakes in the R-spec...

Either way, hard choice eh...favtory supercharged Holden or Ford...

I dont think bill burke imagined this in his wildest dreams!

[AGS302]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Dunlops are a pretty good tyre in the dry in my opinion but there are far better dry weather tyres such as the new Michelin Pilot Super Sports. Happy to post independent tyre tests showing the rating of highest quality tyres like Trev and I have got if you wish.
The new hoops i've just got are unbeatable in the wet and the R Spec could have spanked the GTS if it was fitted with Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2 tyres which are the benchmark for wet weather grip.

I understand magazine publishing deadlines and the need to use a small window of opportunity when they have access to both cars, the track e.t.c. but the weather makes the performance comparison all but meaningless IMO.

Have you actually got the Goodyears on your car yet Rodge or are you just going off reviews and "Independent Tests" for how great they are? Not sure if you realise but Dunlop and Goodyear are the same company these days so there will be SFA between their tyres. Also having used Goodyear Eagle F1 DS-3's on previous vehicles I can tell you they are nowhere near as good a the "Independent Tests" will have you believe.

[mcnews]

The trap can be where the tyres come from. All the big brands have multiple factories making what is meant to be the same tyre. And despite Goodyear and Dunlop being owned by the same parent company and there being some cross pollination the tyres are likely to not even be remotely similar.

As a case study - Dunlop's reputation in motorcycle tyres was battered heavily a few years ago when they sourced their most popular tyre from Asia and the 'same' tyre was not the same tyre at all and the brand was trashed for years amongst road riders as a result. They finally relented and sourced only from the American factory and voila the tyres are great again, despite being the 'same' tyre.

[GTP534]

It's interesting that the 245's on my R-Spec are "Made in Japan" while the rear 275's are "Made in Germany".

So far I can't complain about the levels of grip and in the wet we drove on the Putty Road with no dramas at all.

When the new wheels (finally) come I'll be looking at new rubber for them and as usual the Forum have been a wealth of information.

[marcyeo]

This may still not be in the GTS's league and is likely stirring the pot as it's 0-100 time is 4.6s vs a claimed 4.4s for the GTS, but for a cheaper price ($75k), I'd take the Merc's A45 AMG over the GTS, similar level of practicality and comfort + mod cons.. save the change and get a tune for the AMG, which I'm sure someone will come up with in the near future..

[uniacidz]

Was a wet track in that video, personally why not reschedule.

Didnt even look a wide road as well, to me looked unsafe at speeds in which would be at the end of a 1/4 mile dash.

Proper track, proper weather conditions and drivers that can actually do it without braking early. (i am only guessing, but looked like the R-Spec braked possibly due to unsafe?)

And seriously under those conditions, did the editor or persons in charge have a can of spam for a brain. cmon.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by AGS302

Have you actually got the Goodyears on your car yet Rodge or are you just going off reviews and "Independent Tests" for how great they are? Not sure if you realise but Dunlop and Goodyear are the same company these days so there will be SFA between their tyres. Also having used Goodyear Eagle F1 DS-3's on previous vehicles I can tell you they are nowhere near as good a the "Independent Tests" will have you believe.

All of the reviews i've read have reported a huge leap between earlier versions of the Goodyear Eagle F1's and the new Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetirc 2's. I'm with Trev on the tyre thing.
Havn't fitted them yet but have 4 of these new German made tyres sitting in the garage. I'm having WAY TOO much fun destroying the Dunlop Sport Maxx's to make the switch just yet but Trev's right as soon as they hit about half worn the traction is pretty hopeless, which can be a lot of fun so I can't give any user feedback but look at other people's.

Goodyear Asymmetric 2 User rating average 91%
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Go...ymmetric-2.htm

Michelin Pilot Super Sport User rating average 91%
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Mi...uper-Sport.htm

Dunlop Sport Maxx User Rating average 67%
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Du...Sport-Maxx.htm

Besides this interesting user feedback there's heaps of independent tests out there showing the superiority of tyres like those Trev and I have fitted and the Continentals fitted to the HSV rate extremly well toobut the reality is that now the Dunlops are widely considered to be a pretty average sport tyre.

Technically the GTS appears to have FPV's measure, (the jury is still out on the performance side of things) but the VF looks like a bloated Epica in my opinion and it'll come with HSV's usual "quality control". Then there's the price...

Anyone bleating about SC FPV owners making excuses quite obviously has never driven one in anger in the Wet, especially with worn Dunlops.
Its simply not possible to overstate the traction issue with worn Dunlops in the wet.

[T4ME]

Come on Rodge a little truth please you baby that GT of yours lol.

Destroying the Dunlops.....

[Rodge]

^^ Trust me, just because its not tuned doesn't mean I'm not having fun mate

[AGS302]

Originally Posted by T4ME

Come on Rodge a little truth please you baby that GT of yours lol.

Destroying the Dunlops.....

Give Rodge a break, I don't think you realise just how hard it is being an Accountant AND a Car Enthusiast. I can imagine it would be quite similar to having the good angel on one shoulder telling you to use up every last mm of rubber and the devil on the other telling you just to burn em up and put the Goodys on.

[Rodge]

^^ You absolutly nailed it mate

[Lardman]

Originally Posted by austyphoon

Love how the excuses start coming out. "if the R-Spec had this", "if it were dry". The fact is it doesn't. Tyres can also be changed on the GTS as well.

Nothing leads me to believe that the GT would be closer in the dry. Chopped mentioned that the GT got the better launch and that the GTS had no traction for a 1/3rd of the track yet still reeled it on. That's only going to get worse in the dry when the GTS does have traction.

Originally Posted by stazza

I think if the R Spec had parking assist and an electronic handbrake then everyone would be happy. To me the GT is a muscle car. No frills, just a ballsy engine and no ******** trinkets and gadgets. The GTS to me is an AMG wannabe that looks downright ugly as ****. It doesn't look like a muscle car at all. I'm nit sure HSV knows what they want it to look like. Mazda? Toyota? Kia? Hyundai?

Originally Posted by redloamrules

If Ford Australia got the 200 million in election promises just being handed out just imagine the beast we could have, maybe 4 sec flat falcon lol . could spend 30 k on the boss and eat a the new hsv but thats not the point i think ?

Well that makes sense considering the competitor to the running gear in the current GTS is what the ZL1 Camaro runs - designed to compete with the GT500 Shelby 'Stang, which a GT is somewhat a tier below I feel. (In terms of complete package and what it's designed to do).

Realistically KPM's 500hp package would be what you'd want to use as a comparison platform. Even with the R-spec.

Ford Australia needs far more than $200 in promises to redev the falcon. They need international interest in it.