Tax the rich?

[BPXR6T]

The country made an investment in me as an underprivileged uni student. I took HECS and Austudy and absolutely a lot of education expenses were covered by the government. Most my professional life I paid six figure tax. For the few thousand the government invested in my higher education they received back literally millions in tax. Personally I believe uni should be free. If you're a citizen you should be given your shot no matter your demographic. Higher education is an investment in economic productivity.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by BPXR6T

The country made an investment in me as an underprivileged uni student. I took HECS and Austudy and absolutely a lot of education expenses were covered by the government. Most my professional life I paid six figure tax. For the few thousand the government invested in my higher education they received back literally millions in tax. Personally I believe uni should be free. If you're a citizen you should be given your shot no matter your demographic. Higher education is an investment in economic productivity.

Earn your place for free through good marks at school rather than $$$$ talks should be the go.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by BPXR6T

The country made an investment in me as an underprivileged uni student. I took HECS and Austudy and absolutely a lot of education expenses were covered by the government. Most my professional life I paid six figure tax. For the few thousand the government invested in my higher education they received back literally millions in tax. Personally I believe uni should be free. If you're a citizen you should be given your shot no matter your demographic. Higher education is an investment in economic productivity.

And for your one good news item, I can show you literally dozens or hundreds or thousands of university degree bums! They went to Uni because it was 'free' and because they could, they have Uni degrees pushing paperwork throughout every government department in Australia. What a waste of time/money/effort, these same people don't apply their degrees in any shape or form pushing paperwork, many have a chip on their shoulder blaming everyone for not recognising their brilliance...

People often complain about gold plating electricity or roads, how about gold plated education?

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by BPXR6T

The country made an investment in me as an underprivileged uni student. I took HECS and Austudy and absolutely a lot of education expenses were covered by the government. Most my professional life I paid six figure tax. For the few thousand the government invested in my higher education they received back literally millions in tax. Personally I believe uni should be free. If you're a citizen you should be given your shot no matter your demographic. Higher education is an investment in economic productivity.

Totally agree...

[SB076]

Originally Posted by BPXR6T

The country made an investment in me as an underprivileged uni student. I took HECS and Austudy and absolutely a lot of education expenses were covered by the government. Most my professional life I paid six figure tax. For the few thousand the government invested in my higher education they received back literally millions in tax. Personally I believe uni should be free. If you're a citizen you should be given your shot no matter your demographic. Higher education is an investment in economic productivity.

I agree with your comments except uni should be free. In my opinion Uni should cost, so that people who go value it and make the most of it. I think the current system is pretty good, most can go to uni and defer payments (HECs)

Its an important lesson that no everything in life is free and the longer you delay the lesson the more painful it becomes later on in life.

As you said the country made an investment in you, but no doubt you also made an investment in yourself and to me thats a good thing, thats why I think the current system is pretty good.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by cheap

And for your one good news item, I can show you literally dozens or hundreds or thousands of university degree bums! They went to Uni because it was 'free' and because they could, they have Uni degrees pushing paperwork throughout every government department in Australia. What a waste of time/money/effort, these same people don't apply their degrees in any shape or form pushing paperwork, many have a chip on their shoulder blaming everyone for not recognising their brilliance...

People often complain about gold plating electricity or roads, how about gold plated education?

This is sadly the outcome for most of the uni graduates, irrespective of their field of study.

A merit-based entry requirement in lieu of financial means as a benchmark would ensure sustainability in offering fully funded university degrees. But in this day and age of political correctness, it would be seen as a form of intellectual elitism, with the dropkicks bleating discrimination and calling for the waaaaambulance.

[MAD]

IMO education and healthcare should be free.
We pay the government to run the country the way we feel fit, with OUR money.

Why should someone that can't afford it not be able to access the best healthcare, or education? (Fred Hollows comes to mind)
*Obviously only necessary healthcare, no boob jobs.

[XWGT]

I started a long post on this but deleted it, to distil the long rant into a few lines.

Free education is what moved my family from the working poor (i.e poverty) to 4 siblings who are all tertiary qualified and earning in the top 5% of the nations wage earners. Which conversely means, in the top % of tax payers and contributors as well. Anf have been for many many years.

I paid HECS on my education but at that stage it was still very much a merit based system, and I believe it absolutely should be.

I have no issue paying tax. And I pay a lot of tax. As do my brother and sisters. The only thing I ask of it is that those that want an education or trade can get an education or trade, and those that need medical attention receive free prompt professional medical attention. That's it

They are the two fundamental pillars to a civilized society in my view, and if they are removed, then I'm not sure how happy I will be contributing the same amount of tax every year to watch some moron in Canberra tell us we cant afford the fundamentals but we can afford to pork barrel at every election and waste more money than appears humanly possible.

[MAD]

Originally Posted by XWGT

I started a long post on this but deleted it, to distil the long rant into a few lines.

Free education is what moved my family from the working poor (i.e poverty) to 4 siblings who are all tertiary qualified and earning in the top 5% of the nations wage earners. Which conversely means, in the top % of tax payers and contributors as well. Anf have been for many many years.

I paid HECS on my education but at that stage it was still very much a merit based system, and I believe it absolutely should be.

I have no issue paying tax. And I pay a lot of tax. As do my brother and sisters. The only thing I ask of it is that those that want an education or trade can get an education or trade, and those that need medical attention receive free prompt professional medical attention. That's it

They are the two fundamental pillars to a civilized society in my view, and if they are removed, then I'm not sure how happy I will be contributing the same amount of tax every year to watch some moron in Canberra tell us we cant afford the fundamentals but we can afford to pork barrel at every election and waste more money than appears humanly possible.

Better put than I could have done.

I too am a receiver (and returner) of a HECS debt that has shifted me further up the pay chain, allowing me to purchase a home, and have a child that is not totally dependant on a childcare centre.
Mind you, I'm only just falling into this 'debt levy', so we don't have fancy cars, have a very modest mortgage and don't live in the best of suburbs.


And like yourself I am more than happy paying taxes as long as they go where they should



Someone said to me the pollies pay is justified due to the public scrutiny.
No mention of their pay being tax free, no mention of the generous pension, No mention of all the other "after office" perks, no mention of the lack of responsibility and ownership they must face for their decisions/actions.

Serving your country should be the biggest reward of all.

[JC]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

You know what REALLY ***** me, and this is probably going to hurt some people here on the forum but here goes:

People who have kids, but then both parents work full time and the kids get dumped on the child care center, then the people complain about child care costs.

Is it your kid or the child care center's kid? Because you aren't raising them, the child care center is.

Then once they reach school age they spend the majority of their time at school so again parents having nothing to do with their kids because they're both at work, they only wake them up, feed them, send them to school, feed them again at dinner time then make them go to bed.

There should be one parent who stays home and looks after the kid, I don't care if its the mother or father, call me old fashioned but thats how my parents did it raising me and my sister, I didn't get dumped in some child care center for them to raise me.

Makes me feel like people just have children to complete an image of a successfull family with a house in the suburbs, 2 cars and 2 kids, but the kids spend more time at the day care center than at home.

At the end of the day, parents will do what needs to be done to support their kids. Now that may mean they don't spend daylight hours with them during the week, but do the kids want a house, car, ipod etc, or don't they???

For some it means that both HAVE to work full time to pay for housing, food, lifestyle etc, and if they're lucky, that even means they have to pay for child care (note that even BASCA - after school care - is roughly $100 per week per child, so it's not cheap) - no-one in their right mind chooses to pay forchild care for the sake of it; more often than not, it is a result of a whole lifestyle choice.

To "afford" child care, the lower paying job would need to still be a high paying job if you have more than two children; one is usually not too bad in terms of childcare fees vs wages earned. For us, with 3 kids between 9 and 11, childcare is not a viable financial option. My missus works 5 hours per day, 5 days per week (full time would be 7.5 hours per day), so at roughly $30 per hour, she only drops $75 per day, or $375 per week, before tax. BASCA would cost us $300 per week at current rates, and that's after tax.

If she worked full time, it means she wouldn't be taking them to their sports training etc that they have twice per week, and it means she wouldn't assist with/supervise their homework, plus it means dinner would be later than 6.30 most days which means the kids would miss their 8pm bed time, etc etc. So we choose for her to work "reduced" hours so she can spend the rest of the day running around after the kids, preparing dinner etc (not really reduced now is it - just unpaid). But not everyone is able to make that choice - what if her employer didn't allow part-time? We coudln't afford for her not to work, so she would just have to work full time so that we got at least some income to help pay for our lifestyle.

Anyway, taxing the rich should be aimed at anyone who earns more than $200k per year as a single, or $300K as a couple. Anything under that is really middle class these days, and not what I would call "rich". Unfortnately, the real target group probably minimise their taxable income by going through trusts etc, so who is left to pay? The middle class.

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by cheap

What's the bet they're associated with Getup which for some reason is a 'not for profit' entity and pays no tax! A consequence of the age entitlement on national TV, beware of these left wing people who basically will stop at nothing to get their grubby hands on whatever they want. They are not warm fuzzy loving people. They will be tomorrows academics spreading their vile message to your kids.

Openly admitted members of the Socialist Alliance and the University based Socialist Agenda. Funny thing is most of these "socialists" end up beocming Chardonnay Socialists when they realsie how much they make with the law, chemistry, engineering , education degrees.

on a lighter note, one of the Twitter comments on QANDA was "Why should I have to pay for my arts degree that hasn't got me a job?" Easy, because you should have picked a degree that would get you a job, like engineering, chemistry, law, medical.

When I went to uni after working for years and doing a Chemistry Major, the jokes were: " How do you avoid gettting a job? Get an arts degree" or " What is the most common thing heard form a working arts graduate? Would you like fries with that?"

Guess that Twitter sender fits int the first one.

[mechanic]

What is " rich " ?
The bloke on the dole thinks $50k/year is rich, he in turn thinks the bloke on $100k/year is rich, who then thinks the bloke on $200k/year is rich.

[MAD]

I guess in this context, 'rich' would be those earning a decent amount above the average wage. Maybe from the $160k-$180k mark.

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by MAD

Someone said to me the pollies pay is justified due to the public scrutiny.
No mention of their pay being tax free, no mention of the generous pension, No mention of all the other "after office" perks, no mention of the lack of responsibility and ownership they must face for their decisions/actions.

Serving your country should be the biggest reward of all.

their pay isn't tax free

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by BPXR6T

The country made an investment in me as an underprivileged uni student. I took HECS and Austudy and absolutely a lot of education expenses were covered by the government. Most my professional life I paid six figure tax. For the few thousand the government invested in my higher education they received back literally millions in tax. Personally I believe uni should be free. If you're a citizen you should be given your shot no matter your demographic. Higher education is an investment in economic productivity.

I wish i could jump on this bandwagon, but I am paying similar tax, and got to where I am through hard work - no government funding of my learning.

The problem is if it is free you will get more professional students doing 1 degree after another on street chalk drawings and how long a pizza can be left in the fridge and still eaten, being a pest at every rent a crowd protest.

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by mechanic

What is " rich " ?
The bloke on the dole thinks $50k/year is rich, he in turn thinks the bloke on $100k/year is rich, who then thinks the bloke on $200k/year is rich.

Why start at that end?
Start with the richest 100 and then work backwards if required

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

You know what REALLY ***** me, and this is probably going to hurt some people here on the forum but here goes:

People who have kids, but then both parents work full time and the kids get dumped on the child care center, then the people complain about child care costs.

Is it your kid or the child care center's kid? Because you aren't raising them, the child care center is.

Then once they reach school age they spend the majority of their time at school so again parents having nothing to do with their kids because they're both at work, they only wake them up, feed them, send them to school, feed them again at dinner time then make them go to bed.

There should be one parent who stays home and looks after the kid, I don't care if its the mother or father, call me old fashioned but thats how my parents did it raising me and my sister, I didn't get dumped in some child care center for them to raise me.

Makes me feel like people just have children to complete an image of a successfull family with a house in the suburbs, 2 cars and 2 kids, but the kids spend more time at the day care center than at home.

Unless you are in that position haivng to use a child care centre, you are talking about something that you do not understand.

In a perfect world where all things are equal it might be great that 1 can be at home while the other is a full time mum (Dad or whatever) but some need to to keep their heads above water and a roof over the family with food to go around and find that is the only way to do it.

We used them, had to at that stage. My wife is also a teacher and now being a kinder teacher knows from day 1 the kids that have come straight from home and those who have been to a centre.

There is more to being good parents than just being home for them 24/7. Seen both and no way can someone make such a blanket and what I think, a naive and biased statement.

Move from home, have a kid, buy a house ... etc, and then come back and talk about it. Some can do it quite well, some cant.

[xxx000]

I was going to reply to your comments about both parents working too.
We've moved on from the sexist wife at home role, women can and should be able to work too.
Our situation is not dissimilar to Auslandau's and it's tough, financially and emotionally sometimes but we feel that we chose our kids carers and the situation well.
In a year or so we'll be out the other side financially too and we're confident it's worth it.
like he said have kids of your own and see how life changes regardless of your thoughts and opinions now

[atec77]

Originally Posted by commonrails

The politicians need to amend the 1953 tax act were oversea's company's pays FA tax, but they won't. Google made over 1 billion in oz last financial year and paid 60k in tax (before the political backlash). 1 of the big 4 banks (well there is at least 1 that I'm aware of) that has off shored their head office to avoid paying some Australian tax. What more do I need to say?

http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-e...501-37iq1.html

I attended an economics lecture recently during which several great ideas were espoused , flat rate taxation over 35k a year , something like 10 or 15% , a modest increase in gst and a transaction tax on all monies of at least .5% on all monies leaving the country . It was claimed the levy would pay billions a year off the current deficit .

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by xxx000

I was going to reply to your comments about both parents working too.
We've moved on from the sexist wife at home role, women can and should be able to work too.
Our situation is not dissimilar to Auslandau's and it's tough, financially and emotionally sometimes but we feel that we chose our kids carers and the situation well.
In a year or so we'll be out the other side financially too and we're confident it's worth it.
like he said have kids of your own and see how life changes regardless of your thoughts and opinions now

Don't necessarily want to turn this into a child care debate, but the thread does touch on the subject ...... so

One thing that you and everyone needs to understand that sending a child to a good day care centre is not punishment for the child or family as a whole. BOTH the parents and child need that separation whether it be a couple of hours or a couple of days or so a week.

Having 1 child in the household, they can thoroughly enjoy the interaction (and need) with other kids and adults. They can learn so much between 2-4 before kinder or school. They need time out from each other, to do new things and have different experiences.

And that is coming from a teachers perspective. Kids that go through the child care system can and do usually come out confident, with good interactive skills and able to enjoy different things rather than the same old same old.

Just saying ........ no one should have to justify the choice they make to anyone, Especially to those that think parenting is written in a text book and everything should be confined to the home. Even full time stay at home mums or dads should drop their kids into a centre for a day or 2. Kids love it. Parents get a break. Kids interact with others and can come out, at the end of the day, better for it. No one should make it out that it is punishment, as it isn't, by a long shot.

To tie it to thread ....... yes, it is actually very important that education is helped from an earlier age than just primary school. It starts earlier than that. It is very important that child care, along with kinder, primary, secondary and uni is funded sensibly. No ..... it shouldn't be free. Nothing is. Someone pays for it.

[XBROO]

Auslandau reading that was the ear bashing, I got from the wife when I said our kids don't need to go to child care. She has worked in child care for around 10 years and loves her job. Talk about deja vu.

[BHDOGS]

Some folks are born silver spoon in hand
Lord, don't they help themselves, no
But when the taxman comes to the door
Lord, the house looks like a rummage sale, yeah

It ain't me, it ain't me
I ain't no millionaire's son, no no
It ain't me, it ain't me
I ain't no fortunate one, no

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by XBROO

Auslandau reading that was the ear bashing, I got from the wife when I said our kids don't need to go to child care. She has worked in child care for around 10 years and loves her job. Talk about deja vu.

LOL ....... my Mrs is the teacher. 30 years as Early Childhood Development and a Kinder teacher. She is wrapped when she reads that the new kids coming in have had Child care experience. I get the talking to way to often. Just say "Yes dear ..... " It works

[XBROO]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Some folks are born silver spoon in hand
Lord, don't they help themselves, no
But when the taxman comes to the door
Lord, the house looks like a rummage sale, yeah

It ain't me, it ain't me
I ain't no millionaire's son, no no
It ain't me, it ain't me
I ain't no fortunate one, no

Oh got to love CCR, thanks now I'll be singing that all night.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by xxx000

We've moved on from the sexist wife at home role, women can and should be able to work too.

Have we, really, as a society?
I read an article the other day, it claimed that the average family still has one bread winner and a stay at home mum...stay at home mum.
No, the stigma still exists.

@ BigDamo, I agree with your thoughts completely on childcare centres raising your children.
Don't get me wrong, there is a place for them as all children should get interaction early, but having one carer allocated to half a dozen kids is less than ideal.
As a stay at home father of one 2 year old I can not fathom how one person can provide the daily care and attention that a 2 year old needs when you have to share yourself amongst half a dozen or more.

I had an argument with a woman at centrelink over sending my daughter off to day care. She insisted that it is an important part of a child's development.
I mentioned my thoughts above to which she replied that she had been a cared for child and had done her no harm.

I then told her that my eldest son is 15, achieves B averages at school, was SRC all through his primary school years and has just finished his first 12 months of work as well as beginning Cert3 in retail and being offered an assistant managers role.
My eldest daughter is 13, she graduated primary school as Dux and was also SRC throughout her time there. She has been offered a job with my son when she turns 14 in June. She is also an under 18 South Australian representative in her chosen sport.
My youngest son is 9 and has been awarded SRC every year he has been at school.

None of them went to full time day care, all of them went 1 or 2 days a week and the wife had them the rest of the time.

The conversation ended there.

I take my 2 year old to Kindergym and the local aquatics centre once a week and we both enjoy the time together.
I even toilet trained her last week, it took 2 days with the occasional ongoing accident.

Someone mentioned their wife gaining employment in childcare which is a great idea as it kills two birds with one stone, but I couldn't see myself playing Arnie Schwarzenegger's role.
Im looking to up skill and have been investigating growing industries to find a direction I can take with study.
Having been a labourer/driver all my life I am looking at making a complete change.
I wouldn't mind working in health care of some form.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by XBROO

Oh got to love CCR, thanks now I'll be singing that all night.

Off topic.
Yep, CCR is pretty good and that song is legendary. Just don’t confuse it with PBR, as in “keep your hands off my PBR” lol.

Back on topic.

[Trump]

^ For those of you playing at home:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec0XKhAHR5I

[BHDOGS]

now if abbot used that as his election song while busting some moves id vote for him.

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by GT0132

Arguably a large slice of the deficit created by labour was caused by the generous stimulus handouts given to certain individuals that met a certain criteria.

Rather than impose a debt tax, why not firstly ask those individuals to repay the lump sums they were given?

Then once that has all been paid back , we can assess the state of the deficit and the need for further taxes.

The deficit is currently about $300 billion.

The cost of cash handouts, including to all tax payers earning less than $80,000 was $12.4 billion.

So handing them back would knock about 4% of the deficit.

It would also cause an economic down turn that may lead to a recession.

I wonder if it is a good idea?

[ebxr8240]

Some guys seem to suffer from nappy rash when taxing t rich is suggested
It should be the super rich as in mining companies,Apple, Google etc..