Dealer tactics

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

" 90 % of the population buy Toyotas ??? "

No and I never said they did but 90% of people out there sing Toyotas praises .

" Why weren't these emails made public knowledge ?"

They were , Akio Toyoda the Global Head of Toyota even had to front a congressional commitee over it , do your homework .

" Why aren't the authorities targeting these vehilcles as contributing to the road toll ? "

They did eventually recall them all after being dragged screaming by congress .

"Broad statememt targeting something like ( is it 20% ) of sales in Austalia . If you own or drive a Toyota you are stupid imbecile . Are you serious ? '

Absolutely deadly 100% serious , what else would you call someone who buys a product from a company that has been proven to have murdered its clients with full knowledge and totally callous indifference .

http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...967654,00.html

Yeah, my Camry tries to murder me every day with boredom. But I find it not guilty an the grounds of insane efficiency.

[jmac]

Had the sign up before we talk bull today.. Maybe it's just fpv dealers.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[Rodge]

Thought I'd list some of the dealer tactics I've encountered over the years and comment on some of them.

1. Hydralic your trade-in. This seems to be a favourite. Many customers, (and I've been guilty of this before), are focused on getting what they want for their trade-in and lose sight of the real substance of the deal, (all that really matters is getting the car you want at the change-over figure you want).

2. End of month, quarter / year. Dealers often use this to their advantage, not your's. By letting people think they're getting a good deal because its the end of the month / quarter / year it becomes a "tool" to generate a sale.

3. Interest Free finance, almost always comes with the string attached of you must pay the full retail price.

4. Puppy Dogging You. Take it home for the night / weekend / week mate, park it in your garage, see how it fits e.t.c .e.t.c. They're hoping you start to feel affection for the car just like you would for a new puppy when it comes to your home. (Honda Dealer once insisted I take a demo Legend for a whole week, we returned it after 3 days, (no point if you realise its not what you're after).

5. Flattering your Ego, becoming your best friend and all that.... MATE... I'll look after you B.S.
This is far too common and becomes nausiating after a while.

There's tons of others, those are what readily springS to mind this morning, perhaps someone would like to add to the list ?

[XBROO]

I just said to the dealer when we bought the navara, that I didn't care how they worked it I only wanted to pay 20K with my two trade ins. So weather they give my 15K for my trade or drop the price of the car 35K, they seem to work it out for me. They give me 10K for my XR6 and 5K for the old 93 run down cruiser we had.

[In Focus]

6. A friend/relative/colleague used to own this vehicle. They really looked after it.

7. We'll throw in (cheap) floormats and a tank of (91) petrol.

8. We don't do Dutch Auctions, but we will beat every other offer.

9. We can offer you an extended (but very limited and restrictive) warranty.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by GTP534

Everybody's experience will be different when they go to a dealer and that's why there's no point in trying to generalise either from a buyers viewpoint or a dealers viewpoint.

Just to show a contrast when I went to the dealer (where gtfpv bought his White GT) to look for a Territory 3 years ago I spent quite a bit of time looking over the Territorys on the yard; no one approached me. I wander into the showroom, look over the Territory and still no one approached me. Next day go to another dealer and bought the Territory Ghia.

I know Frank (gtgpv) and his experience there was great, got a great deal and a really lovely GT which is very well looked after. My experience there was not so good; the only outcome of it is I file it away in the back of the memory and probably wouldn't go back there for my next purchase.

At the dealer that doesn't get his business I've only had good experiences so it's pretty hard to pick sometimes; what works for some doesn't work for others and this is one reason why, if someone asks me to recommend a dealer, I'm pretty guarded with my reply.

I THINK THATS A WISE POST GTP534 . and a reason i have decided to back off on this thread , as i have found out from experience ,m a good experience at one dealer , does not mean a good experience and repeat business next time and vice versa . i'ts one of the reasons everytime i buy a car , i give them all a chance everytime , i missed a very good buy on a demo GS at your dealer ship a few weeks before id decided to buy , i was ia little peed off when they couldnt offer a similar deal when i'd walked in , but that was a deal i missed out on , you have to accept sometimes a good buy is a good buy and if you miss it , you have to find a guood buy where you can , and that isnt always the same place . incidently the place you bought your cars from , 7 years ago would not let me test drive one easily , but this time they threw me 2 sets of keys without question and didnt make me sign a waiver or even jump in the car with me . you see the gripes arent always the same and change daily .
so it's wrong to tar a brush when 2 experiences at the same dealer can be at opposite ends of the scale on a different day , thats why i dont name or recommend dealers in gewneral . that wouldnt be fair . im old enough to know better , and doesnt mean i wont purchase a car next time from some where else and be happy .

[MercurySilver]

we left them the ute to look at and he chucked us the keys of the G6ET and said go for a spin for 20 mins, make sure you go somewhere you can give it a boot to feel the power

came back 20mins later and talked turkey

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by GTP534

Just to show a contrast when I went to the dealer (where gtfpv bought his White GT) to look for a Territory 3 years ago I spent quite a bit of time looking over the Territorys on the yard; no one approached me. I wander into the showroom, look over the Territory and still no one approached me. Next day go to another dealer and bought the Territory Ghia.

Unfortunately for that dealership, it gets labelled as useless by a customer based on 1 salesperson. A dealership always tries to have the best personel on deck. Sometimes like every other profession, you have your bad days. Not making excuses for inapt sales people. But someones after dealing with customer that has either lied to a salesperson, (ohh and this does happen daily mind you) I have lost count on how many times customers have blatently lied about offers they have had elsewhere in a bid to acheive the right price according to them. That's cool. Its's all part of wheeling and dealing. If you don't like the salesman at a dealership, you can ask the manager to assist, if that gets you nowhere, ask for the Dealer Principle and if that doesnt work, you probably should go elsewhere. It can be wrong to judge the dealership as a whole based on 1 experience.

Friend of mine works for Vic TMU (for those that don't understand, thats Traffic management unit). Had to attend to a fatality where a couple of hoons killed one another and a young underaged passenger. The next day, he pulled over a hotted up skyline for 25km/h over. He absoultely went to town on this guy, RWC, db levels etc. Sometimes we come across people at the best and at their worst. Doesnt mean they are all that way.

[wrongwaynorris]

" But someones after dealing with customer that has either lied to a salesperson, (ohh and this does happen daily mind you) I have lost count on how many times customers have blatently lied about offers they have had elsewhere in a bid to acheive the right price according to them."

I disagree it happens HOURLY not daily .

What a lot of potential customers don't realise is dealers talk to each other , I wish I had a dollar for every time someone lied to me about a trade in valuation only to see them go white when I casually and non confrontationally drop the salesman / managers name at the dealership who's trade in price they are quoting .

[RAPID_BA]

I actually like dealing with car salesman. Gotta put em in their place.

I start by letting them think your a mug, you love the car, demonstrate financial capacity to pay/purchase the car, let them think all is going well and you will buy today they are gonna nab you. Spend plenty of time with them so they have invested plenty of time with you. Even suggest you will get to the paperwork soon to keep them interested and not wasting their time. By now he is already counting his commission. Now they want a result as your no passer by but they have invested time and calculated their commission. Look through brochures, drive the car, look at their service department, whatever you need to do to consume more time.They now think they are owed something with all the time they put in.. I did this once on a used clubsport HSV, we were laughing and telling stories, spent heaps of time.

If you like the car, pull you pen out and be ready to sign at the list price and they will be rubbing their hands together, thinking your the dumbest biggest sucker ever. I actually suggested to do the paperwork. Never for one second did I discuss price. Even Make a call to someone to make sure there is enough money in your account etc. The Salesman is already spending his commission in his head thinking this is done.

Then just before you put pen to paper, stop and just go cold on them. Tell them I like the car but we need to fix the price on the contract and say your price, contract out and pen / license in hand. Did you really think I was going to pay that price and chuckle.

Their delight will go straight into horror and panic. If they say anything but yes, Just say ok thanks for your time and pack your pen and license and leave. Watch them chase after you. But but but but but but.

I did this on the purchase of a clubsport and when I walked off, the salesman said "but arent you gonna stop and negotiate", I said No, its that price Or I go (kept walking), then he said but we spent half a day, I said Yep..

This guy was ringing me for the next week begging me to buy the car at the price I said but I had bought another so he missed the boat.

[Cano90]

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

I actually like dealing with car salesman. Gotta put em in their place.

I start by letting them think your a mug, you love the car, demonstrate financial capacity to pay/purchase the car, let them think all is going well and you will buy today they are gonna nab you. Spend plenty of time with them so they have invested plenty of time with you. Now they want a result as your no passer by but they have spent time. Look through brochures, drive the car, look at their service department, whatever you need to do to consume time.

If you like the car, pull you pen out and be ready to sign at the list price and they will be rubbing their hands together, thinking your the dumbest bigger sucker ever.

Then just before you put pen to paper, stop and just go cold on them. Tell them I like the car but this is what ill pay for it. Did you really think I was going to pay the list price and laugh.

Their delight will go straight into horror. If they say anything but yes, Just say ok thanks for your time and pack your stuff up and leave. Watch them chase after you. But but but but but but.

Most salespersons will tell you to jump if you did this... unless they are in dire need of a sale.

[RAPID_BA]

Originally Posted by Cano90

Most salespersons will tell you to jump if you did this... unless they are in dire need of a sale.

No they wont. The key is to let them think they have you, you have the money/finance and ready to go. The more time your there the more time they have invested in you. You love the car, everything is done. They wont walk away as they think your in.. Its when you go cold on them is when they will get flustered. Try it and see.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

I actually like dealing with car salesman. Gotta put em in their place.

I start by letting them think your a mug, you love the car, demonstrate financial capacity to pay/purchase the car, let them think all is going well and you will buy today they are gonna nab you. Spend plenty of time with them so they have invested plenty of time with you. Even suggest you will get to the paperwork soon to keep them interested and not wasting their time. By now he is already counting his commission. Now they want a result as your no passer by but they have invested time and calculated their commission. Look through brochures, drive the car, look at their service department, whatever you need to do to consume more time.They now think they are owed something with all the time they put in.. I did this once on a used clubsport HSV, we were laughing and telling stories, spent heaps of time.

If you like the car, pull you pen out and be ready to sign at the list price and they will be rubbing their hands together, thinking your the dumbest biggest sucker ever. I actually suggested to do the paperwork. Never for one second did I discuss price. Even Make a call to someone to make sure there is enough money in your account etc. The Salesman is already spending his commission in his head thinking this is done.

Then just before you put pen to paper, stop and just go cold on them. Tell them I like the car but we need to fix the price on the contract and say your price, contract out and pen / license in hand. Did you really think I was going to pay that price and chuckle.

Their delight will go straight into horror and panic. If they say anything but yes, Just say ok thanks for your time and pack your pen and license and leave. Watch them chase after you. But but but but but but.

I did this on the purchase of a clubsport and when I walked off, the salesman said "but arent you gonna stop and negotiate", I said No, its that price Or I go (kept walking), then he said but we spent half a day, I said Yep..

This guy was ringing me for the next week begging me to buy the car at the price I said but I had bought another so he missed the boat.

Why waste everyone's time.

If I was a sales person and you did this, I would be showing you the door.
Why would the sales person want to cut the price when you have wasted an hour of there and yours time.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by xisled

Why waste everyone's time.

They're quite happy to waste yours.

What do you think they're actually talking about when the sales guy needs to talk with his manager 5 times? It isnt the price.

[Dusty1]

I haven't had a bad experience buying only on delivery years ago, where the sales person was no where to be seen. I wanted to ask him some questions and the guy who was there knew nothing about the car.

I tell them what I want and I've got a figure in my head based on research. I don't like playing games, nor do I like games being played with me. That's why I only deal with the new car sales Manager or the GM or DP. These guys just want the sale and don't play games, at least with the last three cars I bought went like this. Mondeo, the DP set the deal, I then dealt with the new car sales manager until delivery (3 months later), Territory, dealer GM did the deal, XR6 dealer GM from the same dealership where the Territory came from did the deal.

If you get treated well, tell them and tell your friends. If you don't tell the DP and if you don't get any satisfaction go to another dealer.

I'd recommend Etheridge Ford in Ringwood, and Binks in West Footscray and Knox Ford looks to have had a clear out so they might be worth looking at. If you're in Melbourne.

[SM1DY]

What a boring place this would be without Hulk

[Vincenzo]

Originally Posted by SM1DY

What a boring place this would be without Hulk

Not Hulk BA it's now Rapid BA - a change is as good as a holiday remember!

[Cano90]

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

No they wont. The key is to let them think they have you, you have the money/finance and ready to go. The more time your there the more time they have invested in you. You love the car, everything is done. They wont walk away as they think your in.. Its when you go cold on them is when they will get flustered. Try it and see.

I didn't think you bought new cars??? only low km, immaculate, perfect condition second hand cars, that have never been thrashed? So how do you know how to play the dealer?
EDIT: just read your post, fair enough.

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

I actually like dealing with car salesman. Gotta put em in their place.

I start by letting them think your a mug, you love the car, demonstrate financial capacity to pay/purchase the car, let them think all is going well and you will buy today they are gonna nab you. Spend plenty of time with them so they have invested plenty of time with you. Even suggest you will get to the paperwork soon to keep them interested and not wasting their time. By now he is already counting his commission. Now they want a result as your no passer by but they have invested time and calculated their commission. Look through brochures, drive the car, look at their service department, whatever you need to do to consume more time.They now think they are owed something with all the time they put in.. I did this once on a used clubsport HSV, we were laughing and telling stories, spent heaps of time.

If you like the car, pull you pen out and be ready to sign at the list price and they will be rubbing their hands together, thinking your the dumbest biggest sucker ever. I actually suggested to do the paperwork. Never for one second did I discuss price. Even Make a call to someone to make sure there is enough money in your account etc. The Salesman is already spending his commission in his head thinking this is done.

Then just before you put pen to paper, stop and just go cold on them. Tell them I like the car but we need to fix the price on the contract and say your price, contract out and pen / license in hand. Did you really think I was going to pay that price and chuckle.

Their delight will go straight into horror and panic. If they say anything but yes, Just say ok thanks for your time and pack your pen and license and leave. Watch them chase after you. But but but but but but.

I did this on the purchase of a clubsport and when I walked off, the salesman said "but arent you gonna stop and negotiate", I said No, its that price Or I go (kept walking), then he said but we spent half a day, I said Yep..

This guy was ringing me for the next week begging me to buy the car at the price I said but I had bought another so he missed the boat.

You clearly have NO morals , NO scrupples and are NOT in the least bit ashamed to openly boast about it , and in your twisted mind actually think it is funny . You are a perfect example of what I have been saying about the overwhelming majority of people who walk into a car yard being total ******* and time wasters . If the salesman invests half a day with you and then says something like don't you want to negotiate then quite obviously your offer is clearly bloody ridiculously low ( as so many prospective customers offers are ) as , if it was a fair offer he would simply say yes and wheel you in to sign up as all your buying signals had been positive up till that point and he had built rapport with you . Car salesman ( good or bad ) are simply people like you ( well maybe not you , even the lowest of the low car salesmen I have encountered have MORE ethics than you do ) and me who get up and go to work each day to feed their families , pay off a mortgage and hopefully make enough money to have a few little luxuries in life . What makes people like you think you have the right to treat them like vermin ? To treat them in a totally unethical manner and think in your tiny mind it is OK because " Theyr'e JUST car salesmaen . I rest my case ( and you in your vindictive , spiteful microscpically pin sized brain have confirmed ) as to what I have been saying about so many people who walk into a car yard . I wish I knew what you did for a living so I could come down and waste half a day of your time and get ALL my mates to do the same to the point where you got a please explain from your boss as to why they should keep you .

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by Cano90

Most salespersons will tell you to jump if you did this... unless they are in dire need of a sale.

I would be a LOT more forthright in what I would tell a ****** like Rapid BA too do and I would have the full support of my management in doing so . I haven't had to tell many customers to " F " off but this ****** would defiitely be told in NO uncertain terms . Rapid BA , You do realise ( I seriously doubt you do though ) that your name will be on a dealers black list in whatever area you play your tiny minded games don't you ?

[MDS69]

A lot of people like to slag car salesmen (and real estate agents) but is it warranted. Reading through this thread there is enough positive posts to think no. Is our perception of this industry tarnished by practices from long ago or the movies. Do you think these days they really go into the sales managers office pretending to "see what I can do" and just talk **** about the potential customer amongst them selves. My last car I bought was through the fleet sales person our work uses but the one before that I don't remember these games and no I am not naive in these sorts of dealing as I will always try to get the best deal I can whether it is a car or furniture. Sure I acknowledge there are some shonks out there but that happens in every profession you come across, building trades, mechanical, hospitality, retail etc


Oh and post #190 by RAPID_BA..... that is just dumb.

[BENT_8]

I've been following this thread from the start and to say it has made me laugh is an understatement.

Firstly, let me qualify my angle by saying i have spent the best part of half my working life in everything from small yards to the biggest dealerships in Adelaide.

I have seen all the tricks, heard all the stories and worked with all the different personalities which sum up salesmen.

Firstly, most salesmen are just trying to make a buck. They dont get up in the morning with the intention of ripping every customer off.
However, the nature of the business demands that there will be conflict with numerous customers and they know how to play too.

I've worked with some of the nicest men and women you could meet, who could turn arrogant in a split second if things arent going as they see it should. I've also worked with some of the most arrogant ******* you'd ever meet who could 'adjust' their personalities when they get within 10foot of a potential customer.
Its the nature of the business.

I once worked with a young guy who started out as a detailer, he was about 10 years younger than me, a bit immature, but we got on ok at work which was fine.
Then one day he enquired about a shift to sales.
The general manager was also an ex detailer, who obviously saw the opportunity to play master and apprentice with this guy, so he got the nod.
He took home the salesmans guide (thats right, they actually have a training pack of short clips on how to get the job done and how to read the potential customer) and bought himself a fancy suit.

The following week he rolls into work in his demo, pulls up across the door to the detail shed, something he would of hated any other salesman doing the week before, throws me the keys and says fill it up and wash it.
No good morning, no please, no thankyou and full of arrogance.

I felt like punching his head in right then, but i refrained.
I was more interested in watching the transformation which had begun right before my eyes.
Over the next few months his attitude towards the people he had worked with slowly degraded further to the point where he obviously believed everyone around him were the enemy and should be treated as such.
I saw him blueing with other salesmen he was friends with weeks before.

I had always had aspirations to get into sales when i'd had enough of cleaning cars, but after seeing what the nature of the beast had done to this guy i soon changed my mind and never considered it again.

In conclusion i will say this, salesmen are not ********* by default, it is what the industry does to them which brings out their worst side.
They feed on commission, will do almost anything to get that sale to keep an even bigger ******** off their backs, and will do it with a jeckyl and hyde personality which they are trained to develop.

My brother is a new car salesman, he is a smooth, fast talker who is very succesful at getting signatures on contracts, he's also been married 4 times...

[RAPID_BA]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

You clearly have NO morals , NO scrupples and are NOT in the least bit ashamed to openly boast about it.

Are car salesman told to tell you the truth? If you go into the hornets nest you must too be a hornet or they will sting you all day long.

[RAPID_BA]

Originally Posted by xisled

Why waste everyone's time.

If I was a sales person and you did this, I would be showing you the door.
Why would the sales person want to cut the price when you have wasted an hour of there and yours time.

I am a genuine buyer so I dont think anyone would show me the door. I dont wake up every saturday morning and go wasting time with car salesman. Only when im buying. But Ill put them through the wringer when im in buying mode.

Why do salesman ever cut the price? Its because the buyer has twisted their arm enough whilst giving off the scent that they WILL buy if conditions are met... Its a dance to get the salesman to inch backwards as much as possible. You essentially competing over the same bit of money, either it remains in your pocket or ends up in his.

[ShootsWithFilm]

I agree, this is indeed an interesting thread.

What I find interesting is it doesn't matter how much you are paying for a car, the same attitudes and tricks are being played across the board, because I have never bought a car worth more then $17K and have still witnessed these games

From my experience, the worse sales people I have come across have been the lazy ones. I have had plenty ignore me when I have come into a yard. I have had those who have not called back from a specific enquiry - heck, I am still waiting on a valuation of a trade in I tried to do 13 years ago from one dealer (the stupid thing is that for them, it was a certain sale)!

The second worse are the mind games ones - I had a Sale Manager call me a few days after looking at a specific cars, telling me that his sales guy was in his office 'Nearly in tears' and what can he do to make the deal - this was after we left the office and said, sorry not interested in that price.

I've had the 'if you don't buy today, we have someone else interested and they have already filled out the contract (shows unsigned contract)'.

I've also had the 'look at your trade in AFTER you agree to buy'. OK, sure, the piece of crap that is sitting in the carpark might not be worth more then a couple of $K, but it does make a big difference to me, as I like to know EXACTLY what I am paying before I sign.

The best sales and dealers I have had have (to me) been straight to the point - no guilt trips, a yes/no answer to the deal that I might be putting on the table, a yes/no answer to whether they will price match. If they were all like that (& there are some of these out there), then buying a car would be a much nicer experience.

[RAPID_BA]

Originally Posted by MDS69

Oh and post #190 by RAPID_BA..... that is just dumb.

Try it..

You can either pay through the nose the full rack rate for them to sit on their **** "just to be nice". or

you can shake em down, stretch them, squeeze them, hose them down, apply the blow torch to them and see what price they settle on.

[MercurySilver]

i see nothing wrong with it myself
they will tell you everything you want to hear
then it comes time to talk turkey and then it gets interesting
i wouldnt lead them up the garden path as much as you did RAPID but i certainly go in not giving anything away
i also dont tell them what i want to pay
i ask them what the best price is they can do and tell them dont ******** me as i will walk to another yard
they dont meet the price i want, so i walk, an hr later they are ringing saying they can do it for so many thousand less now
sorry chump too late
i asked for your best price over an hr ago
now youre ringing me telling me you can do better than that now ive walked out the door?
i guess the best price when we were face to face wasnt the best price and that was just lies.

if thats low morals then tuff

[Professor Farnsworth]

I've always made car salesmen sweat, it's both fun and beneficial. He gets a commission, I get a good deal. They don't take it personally if you do it right.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

I am a genuine buyer so I dont think anyone would show me the door. I dont wake up every saturday morning and go wasting time with car salesman. Only when im buying. But Ill put them through the wringer when im in buying mode.

Why do salesman ever cut the price? Its because the buyer has twisted their arm enough whilst giving off the scent that they WILL buy if conditions are met... Its a dance to get the salesman to inch backwards as much as possible. You essentially competing over the same bit of money, either it remains in your pocket or ends up in his.

I have done sales and told people to go away because they messed me around. They tried to do things that you said. Once that happens, I am not willing to help. I say well that is the price like it or not.

The problem with most people is, they treat every sales person the same and do not show any respect.

Trying to strike a deal is fun, can be for both the buyer and the seller, but people who waste time just for the fun of it, angers me. This includes sales person and buyer.

[RAPID_BA]

My theory on why car salesman are always gonna be considered snakes and shonks..

Like it or not the buyer always has the more credibility as he turns up to the sales yard with cash in his pocket, approved finance or equivalent etc. Money is money and there is NO dispute as to its value. $20,000 is $20,000 all day long. Today, tomorrow, yesterday no dispute. Person holding the cash cannot hand over $20,000 dishonestly. If he offers a trade the dealer usually gives a token value to it, lets be real. The buyer accepts that. So the buyer at all times remains credible.

However what is the salesman offering? A car of questionable value? He makes it appear better and over promise things to get the most money for it to create value that he can enjoy (commission). A car listed as $20,000 isnt worth that all day everyday etc etc, but the salesman asks for cash that is an absolute value. For years and years there are countless examples of people buying cars and not getting what they thought they were. So the salesman is trying to essentially sell off something of questionable value to someone offering something with an absolute value.

Why wouldnt the person trading the money which has an absolute value really put the salesman through the wringer before he accepts the item of questionable value. There is no risk from the salesman receiving cash as its absolute but heaps of risk for the car buyer.

Anyone who says the salesman should be treated easily needs to "wake up"