GM America on the Future of Falcon

[csv8]

THE future of the Holden Commodore is about to be made safer thanks to the Chevrolet Malibu.

The all-new, global mid-sized car is seen in public for the first time at the New York Motor Show and Chevrolet boss Mark Reuss says it will be a boost - not a threat - to the Commodore.

Related CoverageChevrolet show Holden's MalibuElectric Commodore on the wayCommodore tops 2010 car sales listCruze diesel the first Australian made
GM Holden has already confirmed the Malibu as a Holden and Reuss, the former top man at Fishermans Bend, believes the two-car strategy will work well in Australia.

"I think it actually, in some strange ways, secures some of the rear- wheel drive production that we have there because it's so different. The cars are so different," Reuss tells Carsguide. "And I think we're going to be able to demonstrate that at Holden. That's very important."

Reuss cannot resist a slight swipe at Ford over ongoing speculation about the Falcon, and the potential to eventually twin it beyond 2015 with the Taurus from the USA instead of leaving it as a uniquely local vehicle.

"Where you see some makers converging on one type of vehicle, we're going to have two different vehicles. I think it's important because there are a lot of different tastes we'll be able to satisfy."

Reuss set the Holden product plan before he was called back to the top job at Chevrolet in the USA and knows what is expected from the Malibu as it joins the compact Cruze and the Commodore. "I was there when it was signed off. I think it's going to be very good in Australia. I think it's very relevant," he says of the Malibu.

Reuss also believes there is a place for cars which drive from opposite ends, with the Malibu able to compete with rivals including the Toyota Camry while the Commodore continues to line up against the Falcon. "I think front-wheel drive, and rear-wheel drive and all-wheel drive are very different. The package will be very different."

Without going into detail, Reuss says the Malibu line-up is likely to be extended with other body types, perhaps including a coupe and a station wagon. The car is built on what GM calls its 'Epsilon platform' and that can be capped with a variety of body styles, as well as being adaptable for production in the USA, China and Korea, which will supply the Malibu for Australia.

"I think there are a lot of variants that are Epsilon based that we are looking at. The turnaround time would be very short. "Anything is a possibility on that. The wagons may become a relevant point that we want to leverage," he says.

Reuss refuses - again - to comment on persistent speculation about a major new export deal based on the Commodore, perhaps with the Aussie ute joining Chevrolet's pickup range to provide a more fuel-efficient contender than some of its current line-up.

[aualright]

Originally Posted by csv8

Reuss cannot resist a slight swipe at Ford over ongoing speculation about the Falcon, and the potential to eventually twin it beyond 2015 with the Taurus from the USA instead of leaving it as a uniquely local vehicle.

"Where you see some makers converging on one type of vehicle, we're going to have two different vehicles. I think it's important because there are a lot of different tastes we'll be able to satisfy."

Here is me thinking too many products were a major factor for GM's woes recently. Reading between the lines, it seems Reuss is trying to convince himself (and Oz journos) that this strategy will be true - not so sure HQ in the US will be so enthusiastic.

****

[jpd80]

Yes, Falcon sales are slow but Mondeo has really started gaining momentum especially the diesels....
While Holden has committed early to RWD, that also allows Ford to work out just what cars
will be needed to compete in mid and large car markets and the change in buyer preferences.
The last 6-9 months has seen huge changes in Falcon's sales fortunes and anything is possible
especially with updates and more efficient engines on the way, Ford needs to assess the success
of EcoLPI before deciding Falcon's future, that could make a world of difference to the business case.

Ford is not Holden and they shouldn't be trying to match them at every turn, that's the road to ruin...
Pressing home with Mondeo in diesel and Ecoboost versions may capture Falcon sales bleed or
even increase sales beyond expected levels.

What Ford should be committing to is next Gen Mondeo/Fusion production in Australia for RHD markets
in our region, that way we get more production, better access to models with diesel, Ecoboost and hybrid
whilst bolstering the case for continuing Falcon and Territory production here, it's a better plan than Focus....

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by jpd80

What Ford should be committing to is next Gen Mondeo/Fusion production in Australia for RHD markets
in our region, that way we get more production, better access to models with diesel, Ecoboost and hybrid
whilst bolstering the case for continuing Falcon and Territory production here, it's a better plan than Focus....

Yes !!

[Chilliman]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Yes, Falcon sales are slow but Mondeo has really started gaining momentum especially the diesels....
While Holden has committed early to RWD, that also allows Ford to work out just what cars
will be needed to compete in mid and large car markets and the change in buyer preferences.
The last 6-9 months has seen huge changes in Falcon's sales fortunes and anything is possible
especially with updates and more efficient engines on the way, Ford needs to assess the success
of EcoLPI before deciding Falcon's future, that could make a world of difference to the business case.

Ford is not Holden and they shouldn't be trying to match them at every turn, that's the road to ruin...
Pressing home with Mondeo in diesel and Ecoboost versions may capture Falcon sales bleed or
even increase sales beyond expected levels.

What Ford should be committing to is next Gen Mondeo/Fusion production in Australia for RHD markets
in our region, that way we get more production, better access to models with diesel, Ecoboost and hybrid
whilst bolstering the case for continuing Falcon and Territory production here, it's a better plan than Focus....

Totally agree!

And as for Malibu not stealing Commodore sales - its already happening with the Cruze for private buyers anyway (soon that will translate into fleet sales as resale value for Commodore take a tumble) -Govt fleets here in WA are already buying Cruze in big numbers....I just can't see how a successful Malibu will help Commodore?

[Polyal]

Why would ford na bother building the mondeo et al here, it would cost them more. I think foa's only long term chance of continued production is the tezza shared off a platform used with the g and xr series that links into a grwd somehow.

Ford NA would be nuts not have have some kind of product RWD other than the mustang...or just make a new rwd platform that can be adapted for any rwd/awd application worldwide.

As for GMs comments, bah, that's all they are good at, stirring the pot. Mind you I'd be disappointed if Ford didn't have the occasional side comment...it's all a bit of banter.

[Road_Warrior]

That's a Drive article isnt it?

THE future of the Holden Commodore is about to be made safer thanks to the Chevrolet Malibu.

What a load of crap. This Malibu is going to hammer the Commodore.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Yes, Falcon sales are slow but Mondeo has really started gaining momentum especially the diesels....
While Holden has committed early to RWD, that also allows Ford to work out just what cars
will be needed to compete in mid and large car markets and the change in buyer preferences.
The last 6-9 months has seen huge changes in Falcon's sales fortunes and anything is possible
especially with updates and more efficient engines on the way, Ford needs to assess the success
of EcoLPI before deciding Falcon's future, that could make a world of difference to the business case.

Ford is not Holden and they shouldn't be trying to match them at every turn, that's the road to ruin...
Pressing home with Mondeo in diesel and Ecoboost versions may capture Falcon sales bleed or
even increase sales beyond expected levels.

What Ford should be committing to is next Gen Mondeo/Fusion production in Australia for RHD markets
in our region, that way we get more production, better access to models with diesel, Ecoboost and hybrid
whilst bolstering the case for continuing Falcon and Territory production here, it's a better plan than Focus....

I don't see how making Mondeo more popular will help Falcon. It can only detract from it... as Falcon is basically fighting Mondeo in the market too. But if we were to produce Mondeo here, or a reskinned Fusion... I would still recommend them to people as it's Australian built. People who don't want a falcon size/capacity car that is.

But... would they let us build RHD version over say... Thailand, or South Africa? I'm not sure.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Why would ford na bother building the mondeo et al here, it would cost them more. I think foa's only long term chance of continued production is the tezza shared off a platform used with the g and xr series that links into a grwd somehow.

The call on setting up Mondeo or Fusion manufacturing in Australia is not Ford NA's to make,
that decision would fall to a supply proposal for Asia Pacific Africa region which is mostly RHD.
Ford Australia as a region building more expensive and larger vehicles would be eminently suitable.

My fear is that if FoA don't embrace the CD4 Mondeo as well as Falcon and Territory, they lose
an opportunity to consolidate more buyers under the locally made banner, it's also
a good move if the market decides to switch away from Falcon more rapidly than expected...

[max_torq]

Originally Posted by csv8

Without going into detail, Reuss says the Malibu line-up is likely to be extended with other body types, perhaps including a coupe and a station wagon. The car is built on what GM calls its 'Epsilon platform' and that can be capped with a variety of body styles, as well as being adaptable for production in the USA, China and Korea, which will supply the Malibu for Australia.

"I think there are a lot of variants that are Epsilon based that we are looking at. The turnaround time would be very short. "Anything is a possibility on that. The wagons may become a relevant point that we want to leverage," he says.

This is where ford has dropped the ball. A modern chassis design should have easy variants. Maybe the falcon has to be replaced by the cd4 fusion/mondeo etc, but also bring in the various models of mustang, and price them competitively, not as exclusive dream cars, but pony cars made cheap by the exchange rate and US volume production.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

I don't see how making Mondeo more popular will help Falcon. It can only detract from it... as Falcon is basically fighting Mondeo in the market too. But if we were to produce Mondeo here, or a reskinned Fusion... I would still recommend them to people as it's Australian built. People who don't want a falcon size/capacity car that is.

But... would they let us build RHD version over say... Thailand, or South Africa? I'm not sure.

Ford was going to build the Focus here and Bill Osbourne wanted to take that further by adding Mondeo too.
I think that last plan would have worked where just building focus would have been difficult.

Mondeo only competes with Falcon in the eyes of people that are truly wanting something
different to the Falcon RWD that has been offered up to private buyers and fleets in the past,
it's an opportunity for local manufacturer to plug into the latest technology and economy
solutions and gain first ahnd knowledge from building the new generation global vehicles.

Who knows, with the Australian made banner behind them, diesel and Ecoboost Mondeos
may really take off in the sales chart and as you suggest commute a lot of Falcon buyers who
were planning on going somewhere else instead of buying another Ford...

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Who knows, with the Australian made banner behind them, diesel and Ecoboost Mondeos
may really take off in the sales chart and as you suggest commute a lot of Falcon buyers who
were planning on going somewhere else instead of buying another Ford...

You mean... buying another non-australian made Ford.

Do Ford care enough to do that though? I'm not sure. Falcon and Territory need to prove their worth. Actually... they need to be American designed and built, because then Ford would spare no expense making it work.

[csv8]

[QUOTE=Road_Warrior]That's a Drive article isnt it?
No..its Cars Guide april 26 Courier Mail

[2011G6E]

the thing is, Ford does have to take on Commodore head on. They're very similar cars...we're not the only people who ended up virtually tossing a coin between the SV6 and the XR6 (we ended up with a G6E). I've spoken to plenty of people for whom it came down to who would give the better trade in deal. There's just not enough between the two nowadays

Ford could throw a few bucks at advertising the Falcon...TV in infested with ads for the various Commodore models and specials...where's the Falcon adverts?

[Elks]

Falcon can sell alongside Mondeo. It just needs to be different enough to do so. Style wise I mean. Make the Falcon a more square brash RWD in the vien of 300C, think of all the good selling falcon XR~XY, XD~XF, BA~BF, squared of style, and the poorer performers, XA~XC, AU, FG, all nice and soft and round. Don't get me wrong FG is a fine car. Just lacks visual punch.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Elks

Falcon can sell alongside Mondeo. It just needs to be different enough to do so. Style wise I mean. Make the Falcon a more square brash RWD in the vien of 300C, think of all the good selling falcon XR~XY, XD~XF, BA~BF, squared of style, and the poorer performers, XA~XC, AU, FG, all nice and soft and round. Don't get me wrong FG is a fine car. Just lacks visual punch.

Yeap, I cant see why everyone is getting so worked up about trying to increase manufacturing here. Its just not cost effective these days unless you have volume, and our dollar at the moment kills exports (sure that will change soon enough but when?).

IMO if FoA can keep things relatively as is with manufacturing, either by picking up other contracts like Bosch etc, and keeping the Territory rolling on then the Falcon in specialized models stands a chance.

This theory is the same for Holden by the way, I dont think any of there exports on Zeta/Commodore have ever worked out. I also find it hard to believe the tooling/setup costs work out for a car thats already built elsewhere...just for this market....

Another curious question, the Territory is forever being dubbed the closest thing to a X5 et al yet its budget always seems to be constrained even moreso than the falcons. Could there be potential for that concept to be taken further under one Ford? Is the Explorer any better or worse? AFAIK the explorer might have more gismo's but it doesnt hold a candle to the Territory with regards to road manners.

It seems we have two really great products in the Ford world that could be so much more. Its hard to believe they will be left to die a natural death, hence why I still hold hope for a GWRD. It wont save our manufacturing completely, but it wont disseminate it either.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Yeap, I cant see why everyone is getting so worked up about trying to increase manufacturing here. Its just not cost effective these days unless you have volume, and our dollar at the moment kills exports (sure that will change soon enough but when?).

What's not cost effective about throwing a set of stamps into Broadmeadows and building RHD Mondeos here?
That would save us a huge wait and pre order headache with Ford Europe who are not that interested in us anyway
because our cars are 1) low volume and 2) have unique wiring and ADR changes that upsets their production flow,
that's why they're done in batch runs and look out if you order the wrong product mix, instant 3-4 month waiting list.

No, I could see the next mondeo being a great companion build for Falcon and offering everything that the
Falcon can't in terms of I-4 diesel efficiency, Ecoboost I-4 in a lighter big car and of course a spacious wagon
all at or below Falcon prices. while the diehard okkers will still insist on their RWD Falcons,
there appears to be an upswing in interest for fuel efficient mid sized Mondeo so surely,
Ford would be wise capitalise on that and continue nurturing that market.

All of this can be done as a separate plant to whatever is being planned for Falcon and Territory,
Ford insists that Mondeo is not a Falcon competitor so they should explore the market fully.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by jpd80

What's not cost effective about throwing a set of stamps into Broadmeadows and building RHD Mondeos here?
That would save us a huge wait and pre order headache with Ford Europe who are not that interested in us anyway
because our cars are 1) low volume and 2) have unique wiring and ADR changes that upset production flow,
that's why they're done in batch runs and look out if you order the wrong product mix, instant 3-4 month waiting list.

No, I could see the next mondeo being a great companion build for Falcon and offering everything that the
Falcon can't in terms of I-4 diesel efficiency, Ecoboost I-4 in a lighter big car and of course a spacious wagon
all at or below Falcon prices. while the diehard okkers will still insist on their RWD Falcons,
there appears to be an upswing in interest for fuel efficient mid sized Mondeo so surely,
Ford would be wise capitalise on that and continue nurturing that market.

All of this can be done as a separate plant to whatever is being planned for Falcon and Territory,
Ford insists that Mondeo is not a Falcon competitor so they should explore the market fully.

Well first you have to work out how many cars you think you will sell annually for this market. What is the falcon at its height? 2500 per month? And thats without a decent internal competitor like the Mondeo, so I dont think they will ever sell more than 2000 per month even if it was built here.

Thats 24,000 cars per year, stuff all and not enough to warrant a new stamping plant, new parts, new R&D etc. Its a nice idea but the numbers just dont add up.

The waiting issue can be solved by FoA biting the bullet and ordering more cars in, which brings its own risks but Id be pretty sure those who option up a model all the way, pick random colours etc would expect a wait.

This supply issue is just another example of our market not being that important on a global scale, so its very hard to justify such expenses as setting up manufacturing facilities/processes on a car that you already have.

Falcon is getting EB4, it will have a LPG system that I bet will be as cheap if not cheaper to run than diesel (better future proofed) and if they really wanted to Id wager that getting the Territory diesel in a Falcon could be done "relatively" easy. Imagine diesel utes!

FG2 will be interesting to see what it picks up in tech terms and will probably signal which way Ford NA will make FoA go. At the end of the day we can have decent business plans but we always go the the US for the funds..."please sir, can we have some more"....

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Well first you have to work out how many cars you think you will sell annually for this market. What is the falcon at its height? 2500 per month? And thats without a decent internal competitor like the Mondeo, so I dont think they will ever sell more than 2000 per month even if it was built here.

Thats 24,000 cars per year, stuff all and not enough to warrant a new stamping plant, new parts, new R&D etc. Its a nice idea but the numbers just dont add up.

You don't need a new stamping plant, the new presses can change dyes in as little as six minutes and all the new Fords are basically assembled
using the same processes, each station does basically the same job but on a different vehicle and takes a different time. all of the parts could actually be importent from Genk and assembled here, heck you could even import the panels too.

The waiting issue can be solved by FoA biting the bullet and ordering more cars in, which brings its own risks but Id be pretty sure those who option up a model all the way, pick random colours etc would expect a wait.

This supply issue is just another example of our market not being that important on a global scale, so its very hard to justify such expenses as setting up manufacturing facilities/processes on a car that you already have.

It's the product mix, that changes from month to month even though some months it's all Zetecs and Titaniums, next month could be more LX wagons and less 5- doors., just too hard to advance order - you'll end up like Broadmeadows with cars on the grass everywhere..

Falcon is getting EB4, it will have a LPG system that I bet will be as cheap if not cheaper to run than diesel (better future proofed) and if they really wanted to Id wager that getting the Territory diesel in a Falcon could be done "relatively" easy. Imagine diesel utes!

I can imagine RWD Ranger Ute more easily....

FG2 will be interesting to see what it picks up in tech terms and will probably signal which way Ford NA will make FoA go. At the end of the day we can have decent business plans but we always go the the US for the funds..."please sir, can we have some more"....

I hope they give us something interesting to keep buyers guessing,
a new front with distinctive and more aggressive styling would do that.

FG is nice but i think it has too many ties to past Falcons, a bolder look is needed..

And FWIW, I think Ford will stick a new Mondeo line into Thailand as a companion to new Focus,
by sharing power trains and electrical systems they more than compliment each other...
FoA lost out big time, these two were the ultimate pigeon pair and could have made the whole deal viable.

[SteveJH]

There are probably Falcon Mules floating around with the 2.7L V6 diesel anyway. Isnt the RWD drive train of a Territory basically the same as the falcon anyway?

[Road_Warrior]

No need for changes to the stamping plant. Ford did a big dollar spend on new presses in the lead up to the FG and the Focus. In fact I would say they are as good as any others in Ford plants around the world. Powertrains and other complex parts can be imported and fed into the supply chain as with production of any other car and there would be few changes to the actual assembly line at Broady to accommodate a different car. It would mainly be tools, jigs etc and the computer that controls the whole shebang.

The reason why the Mondeo/CD4 should be built here is not because of the Mondeo itself, but the possibility of producing other vehicles off the CD4 platform - like an SUV.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by jpd80

You don't need a new stamping plant, the new presses can change dyes in as little as six minutes and all the new Fords are basically assembled
using the same processes, each station does basically the same job but on a different vehicle and takes a different time. all of the parts could actually be importent from Genk and assembled here, heck you could even import the panels too.

If true then its an interesting idea. But tell me again why Ford would ok FoA to build a focus/mondeo here when it can be done for less in Thailand? After they just invested big bucks in manufacturing there?

Originally Posted by jpd80

It's the product mix, that changes from month to month even though some months it's all Zetecs and Titaniums, next month could be more LX wagons and less 5- doors., just too hard to advance order - you'll end up like Broadmeadows with cars on the grass everywhere..

I did note that situation is possible, but its not hard to look at your past sales and upcoming models and take a minor punt.

Originally Posted by jpd80

I can imagine RWD Ranger Ute more easily....

Obviously not hard to imagine, but there are many examples of cars that are close in function but different in application. Falcon ute still can sell, no XR8 and LPG are hurting it right now though.

Originally Posted by jpd80

I hope they give us something interesting to keep buyers guessing,
a new front with distinctive and more aggressive styling would do that.

FG is nice but i think it has too many ties to past Falcons, a bolder look is needed..

If FG2 doesnt come out swinging then we can safely say thats that...they have to do it now or it will be too late.

Originally Posted by jpd80

And FWIW, I think Ford will stick a new Mondeo line into Thailand as a companion to new Focus,
by sharing power trains and electrical systems they more than compliment each other...
FoA lost out big time, these two were the ultimate pigeon pair and could have made the whole deal viable.

That would be the smart thing to do, not here, because they are already set up and do it cheaper than us.

Its evident IMO that Ford have greater plans for FoA, it just doesnt really involve manufacturing as its core. The release about FoA being a PD centre all but confirms this.

The only saving grace the Falcon has its that nothing has really been said yet..all alot of fluff, they are still working it out which means there is still hope. Im sure if there was even a whisper of "official" news that the Falcon was dead it would be out in a flash from employees, cant imagine anyone is going to be happy about it.

Its great FoA are putting more effort into the Focus/Mondeo, way overdue, and their currents sales are in part to this increased effort and also the Falcons slow cycle process.

If you look at Falcon, ute, and Territory sales combined then it makes sense to pursue this avenue if they are producing greater numbers. Give the Falcon a little bit of "one ford", throw in like you said some new body work and it might stand a chance.

[Dr Smith]

Here's the online link http://www.carsguide.com.au/site/new...re?origin=hpc2
and I was wondering who actually authored it as it isn't saying online?

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Elks

Falcon can sell alongside Mondeo. It just needs to be different enough to do so. Style wise I mean. Make the Falcon a more square brash RWD in the vien of 300C, think of all the good selling falcon XR~XY, XD~XF, BA~BF, squared of style, and the poorer performers, XA~XC, AU, FG, all nice and soft and round. Don't get me wrong FG is a fine car. Just lacks visual punch.

Yes, i think they've gone a bit too "family" wit the front of the Mondeo and FG. I couldn't count the number of times I've caught a quick oncoming glimpse of an upmarket Mondeo (with the chrome around the grill), and thought it was a Falcon until I got a closer look...

[Adamz Ghia]

I drove past an FGII mule last week. A white ute with a camo front end and what I swear were the same light set up as Territory...

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

I drove past an FGII mule last week. A white ute with a camo front end and what I swear were the same light set up as Territory...

Interesting...that's the second time that car has been spotted.

[Bobman]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

I drove past an FGII mule last week. A white ute with a camo front end and what I swear were the same light set up as Territory...

Yeah, from all accounts it will have a similar front-end to the new Territory.

[csv8]

It needs to be radically different to FG1 so it stands out, to attract punters!!!!

[chevypower]

The Malibu isn't a Taurus competitor. It is mid-size, so it would be a Fusion competitor. It wouldn't make sense to offer a Taurus and a Falcon because they are the same size. Malibu and Commodore are different class vehicles, so it makes sense to offer both. Everything in the article was right, except the link to Ford.

[Road_Warrior]

By all accounts, the next gen Taurus will be based on CD4 anyway so will be smaller. It's not even a given that the CD4 will have a 6 cylinder engine available.