UK to Ban Diesel and Petrol Cars by 2040.

[csv8]

"The Government’s new policy to cut air pollution has two striking headline measures. A squeeze, very soon, on the most polluting vehicles – which includes older diesel cars. And the expectation of a ban on the sale of all new petrol and diesel cars from*2040.
They’re linked, but it makes sense to consider them*separately.
The diesel part of the policy is designed to cut noxious pollution in cities – from sooty particulates, and from oxides of nitrogen (NOx). These have been a terrible problem, damaging the health of hundreds of thousands of people who have asthma and heart problems. It’s reckoned to cause as many of 40,000 of them to die early. NOx is also poisonous to children, slowing their*growth.
Vehicles are very much to blame for this. If you look at a concentration map of NOx in London, it bears very close resemblance to a road map. In many areas of many cities, those concentrations are above the legal*maximum.
To be fair the level of that pollution has been falling, but not fast enough. Also, not as fast as you’d expect from the way Euro 4 then Euro 5 then Euro 6 are supposed to have cleaned-up their exhausts. Anyone with a passing knowledge of recent real-world emissions news (and not just the VW scandal) will understand*why.
But the Government has for a long time pushed us into diesel cars because they are generally more economical than petrols so they produce less CO2 and hence cause less climate change. Today’s strategy says that NOx and particulate pollution is a local issue. So the Government is pushing responsibility for cleaning up local emissions onto local councils and city*mayors.
Could it be that the Government doesn’t want to make itself unpopular with millions of diesel drivers? We couldn’t possibly*comment.
Anyway, what this means is a confusing patchwork of measures across the*country.
London has already got its measures in place. From 23 October this year drivers of Euro 4 cars and older will have to pay £10 a day to enter the existing Congestion Charge zone. That’s in addition to the £11.50 congestion charge. In 2020, any pre-Euro 6 diesel car will be charged in the same zone. By then those cars will be five years*old.
Other cities will follow, but probably charge diesels only for certain congested routes. We don’t*know.
So what if you’re thinking of buying a diesel car? What if you own one – will it soon be worthless? Will you be allowed to drive it where you*want?
Answers are pretty hard to come by. So far there are no current or planned restrictions on new (Euro 6) diesels. But after today’s announcement, local regulations will change fast. You’ll just have to keep a close eye on your own local authority and the ones for the cities you drive into. That includes many cities across mainland Europe, too. If you live in the countryside or drive mostly out of cities, diesel is safe for*now.
The Government is providing £255 million to help councils enact whatever measures they think will improve air quality most effectively. That might pay for a road charging scheme, might retro-fit buses with exhaust treatment, might build cycle lanes, might help encourage car sharing or install EV charging*infrastructure.
It might even pay for local scrappage schemes, but this now seems very*unlikely.
Should you stick with diesel*cars?
The second major part of today’s news is that all new diesel and petrol cars might be banned from sale from 2040. This wouldn’t only remove toxic tailpipe emissions altogether, it will also cut CO2. So it chimes with two environmental*necessities.
(Of course we’d need more clean energy generation, but not very much more. It’s likely by then that EVs will be part of a grid smoothing system. The car batteries will charge up when there’s excess wind-generation at night, and discharge into the grid at times of the day when homes and industry are using electricity for other*things.)
Talking about EVs in the dry language of energy policy is one thing. But what does it mean for the cars we love? Well, 2040 is 23 years away. We have little idea what sort of low-emission propulsion will be available by then. It might well be so agreeable we’ll have voluntarily given up*combustion.
Remember, just 10 years ago the only electric car on sale in Britain was the G-Wizz. Five years later the Tesla Model S went into production. By 2020 there will be a widespread fast-charging network along Europe’s motorways. It’s likely that by 2025 or so, for nearly everyone, an electric car will be as practical and as cheap to own as a petrol or diesel. As well as smoother, quieter and livelier. It’s also possible that more hydrogen stations will make fuel-cells more*practical.
In other words, combustion-engined cars probably won’t need outlawing by 2040, because no-one will want*them.
No-one, maybe, except us petrolheads. But remember how we used to think all hybrids would be like the Prius, until we got the Porsche 918. We used to think all EVs would be like the Leaf, until we got Tesla’s Ludicrous mode. We’re pretty poor at predicting the delights that car engineers will build for us next year, never mind in 23 years’*time."
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/ins...cars-2040-mean

[jpblue1000]

Exciting times ahead for this Londoner!
JP

[cheap]

This will happen in 2400 not 2040.

[Ford17]

Originally Posted by cheap

This will happen in 2400 not 2040.

It will probably happen sometime in between, based on their inability to get Brexit sorted out.

[GASWAGON]

And on the other side of the planet we have still have this going on. LOL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWKf6b65sT0

Why do'nt they throw some Propane in the mix which would clean all this black smoke up and also make more power???

[Streets]

I wonder what effect this will have on peoples' health. There are theories that when lead petrol was done away with, the crime rate went down because the lead that people were breathing in was ****ing with their brains. Breathing car fumes can't be good for you. I worked in the city for a decade before moving away. Went back to visit and could barely breathe standing on the street.

[mcflux]

Thread title should read "UK to ban NEW diesel and petrol cars by 2040".

In 2040 a 2039 car powered by petrol or diesel will be fully legal.

Following on from Streets' post above, Australia stopped the sale of leaded petrol vehicles in 1986 and wound up leaded/lead-replacement fuel in the early 2000s. We still have pre-1986 vehicles on the road today in 2017...

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by mcflux

Thread title should read "UK to ban NEW diesel and petrol cars by 2040".

In 2040 a 2039 car powered by petrol or diesel will be fully legal.

Following on from Streets' post above, Australia stopped the sale of leaded petrol vehicles in 1986 and wound up leaded/lead-replacement fuel in the early 2000s. We still have pre-1986 vehicles on the road today in 2017...

Difference is that in 2017 (30+ years after leaded stopped being sold) unleaded is still being sold and my old cars can still run on unleaded ...

Be interesting to see how quickly fossil-fueled vehicles disappear from UK entirely once the high-mileage, new car fleet switch to "something else" and the infrastructure for fossil fuels winds down?

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

Difference is that in 2017 (30+ years after leaded stopped being sold) unleaded is still being sold and my old cars can still run on unleaded ...

Be interesting to see how quickly fossil-fueled vehicles disappear from UK entirely once the high-mileage, new car fleet switch to "something else" and the infrastructure for fossil fuels winds down?

Oz Jav with your old cars do you have to run a fuel additive everytime you fill with ULP?

Like a lead replacement of some sort?

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by CoolBFWagon

Oz Jav with your old cars do you have to run a fuel additive everytime you fill with ULP?

Like a lead replacement of some sort?

Nope .. don't drive them enough to cause valve seat recession short-term (four cars and eight bikes .. no specific one gets used a lot). By the time I have to deal with that I'm likely be rebuilding for something else anyway. All my pre-86 motorbikes just get run on 91 too.

[csv8]

Car industry hasn't replied ? They will close down???

[ebv8]

what will the US say about this? there won't need to be any more wars
or maybe the Australian deserts will be hot property for solar farming

it 2060 they will remove solar as the reflected rays will super heat the atmosphere and cause global warming

then in 2080 we will run out of the material needed to make the super batteries and the stockpile of waste batteries will pollute the earth more than Co2 and NOX

energy is never free, only real way to fix it is remove all the cars and work form home

on a serious note i can't see it happening in 2040

[Ben73]

Guess that means they have until 2040 to supply a viable alternative.
Electric cars are ok, but I would never buy one as a daily until the refuelling process and range is comparable to a current ICE car

Plus where are all these batteries coming from. Time to invest in companies that mine materials for batteries. Just sell your shares before everyone starts worrying that billions of batteries are ruining the planet

[Terror_Tree]

Electric cars, at the moment, are not the answer. Battery technology is just not up to it yet. I think the answer is hydrogen, either run an internal combustion engine on it (99% water out of the exhaust) or use it in fuel cells.

But hydrogen is very expensive, and very very combustible.

I wonder what the big oil companies think of this proposed ban.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Ben73

Guess that means they have until 2040 to supply a viable alternative.
Electric cars are ok, but I would never buy one as a daily until the refuelling process and range is comparable to a current ICE car

Plus where are all these batteries coming from. Time to invest in companies that mine materials for batteries. Just sell your shares before everyone starts worrying that billions of batteries are ruining the planet

https://www.wheelsmag.com.au/news/17...-use-batteries

[Syndrome]

If it occurred I would be like Lee Majors in the movie "The Last Chase"

[Wretched]

Funny, just after I responded to this thread, went for a walk around the car park at work and two Toyota FCVs drove past.

[Jastel]

Cars are practically useless in London or any big city between 6am and 9pm anyway.
Buses are ok but you can walk faster than them in their dedicated bus lanes.
Bikes are a menace to pedestrians and to motorists.
They had better get the tube sorted then.

[jpblue1000]

What's wrong with the tube?
JP

[tranquilized]

The tube worked fine for us when we were in London last month. Bit dirty and crowded sure, but always faster than driving.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

The tube worked fine for us when we were in London last month. Bit dirty and crowded sure, but always faster than driving.

Crowded? You need to travel on the Tokyo subway to experience what crowded means. I did it once and it was the most bizarre experience.

[malazn mafia]

They didn't say LPG is banned though ?

[Sabantien]

I like the idea for the city, and would love some form of electric car if I was still living in Brisbane.

I think we're a long way off any sort of solution that's reasonable for regional Australia, which is a pity, because once other countries start moving in that direction we're going to be left behind. It's not like we produce cars here.

There will still be petrol powered cars for a long time because this tech is first world only, so we'll definitely be able to get cars manufactured for third world countries. Assuming they can be converted easily to right hand drive.

[Jastel]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

What's wrong with the tube?
JP

While it does a good job if they expect MORE people to use it instead of cars it had better be a bit more reliable, be a lot more secure, be wheelchair accessible, have storage space for parcels/bags, have some ventilation installed and run 24/7.

FYI I have caught public transport in Tokyo, New York, Singapore, London, Paris, Berlin and many other cities...all have similar problems.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

They didn't say LPG is banned though ?

because there aren't any lpg cars in the UK afaik

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by simon varley

because there aren't any lpg cars in the UK afaik

"There are over 1400 outlets selling autogas across the UK."

http://www.drivelpg.co.uk/i-have-lpg...purchase-fuel/

[boss351290]

What's a Toyota FCV. F***ing C**t of a Vehicle

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by Jastel

While it does a good job if they expect MORE people to use it instead of cars it had better be a bit more reliable, be a lot more secure, be wheelchair accessible, have storage space for parcels/bags, have some ventilation installed and run 24/7.

FYI I have caught public transport in Tokyo, New York, Singapore, London, Paris, Berlin and many other cities...all have similar problems.

good thing about london underground is the journey alternates if one line goes down, certainly from where I am I have Overground, DLR, river boat and in 2018 crossrail Thames clipper also has onboard bars for morning coffee or evening beer, leather recliners too...ok not really a recliner but a leather seat with legroom and Im yet to have to stand) I can also cycle in less time than all of them, except crossrail but thats 2018. I also have bus routes but with two interchanges not to dissimilar to the tube but it does take a fair bit longer because busses rely on roads congested with drivers!
in the time between now and when the last diesel car is scrapped in 2060 ish there is 43 years of development in infrastructure. Crossrail opens fully in 2019 adding an additional 200 million journeys PA. on top of LUL's 1,700 Million in 2016. We are gearing up to bid on Crossrail 2 soon at work which when (if) it comes online in 2030ish will add another 200+ million journeys.
Im currently working on station upgrades which are to cater to journey/trip estimates for 2051. there is significant future-proofing underway.
We now have 4 all night lines on the weekends, really geared to the late night economy, the need just isn't there weekdays as we are not working 24 hour days yet! the odd few who need to long commute weekdays after night have very good options, busses, and a plethora of taxi or taxi like options. On the odd occasion I leave the office midweek after midnight its a reasonable 40 pound fare and 40 minutes. Work pays too! It's not uncommon to see cyclists this hour for those on 20-40 minute commutes.

92 percent of the Underground is ticket funded too.
Governments have good reason to pay upfront or subsidise the new rail infrastructure as its a lot cheaper than a road-structure to accommodate the journeys, the health impact of that many more cars on the road would be catastrophic and the economy would just stop as every street corner would be gridlock, nowhere to park such nobody could turn up to work.

JP

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by boss351290

What's a Toyota FCV. F***ing C**t of a Vehicle

Hydrogen fuel cell.

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

"There are over 1400 outlets selling autogas across the UK."

http://www.drivelpg.co.uk/i-have-lpg...purchase-fuel/

Autogas is used in U.K because petrol is around $2.00p/ltr and is also why 4 cylinder cars are so popular in Europe compared to U.S/Oz gas guzzlers.