B2tf is cracking the ***** - Page 2

king_pin · 27-04-2005, 09:40 PM

I have had insurance problems in the past with both RACV and NRMA. Basically it is their loss. Am currently with AAMI and cant complain.

And the deal about wider wheels being more dangerous is due to the fact that a wider wheel has more contact area on the road to distribute the weight of the vehicle, therefore making it slightly more prone to losing traction.

donno · 27-04-2005, 11:57 PM

Read the post in the wrong context, sorry.

MITCHAY · 28-04-2005, 12:38 AM

whatever any one does to their cars you do want to make sure it is legal and up to date. NRMA would knock back so many claims id imagine. people get wide body kits on their cars so they can put wider tyres on so there must be a benefit from wider tyres.

brother · 28-04-2005, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

whatever any one does to their cars you do want to make sure it is legal and up to date. NRMA would knock back so many claims id imagine. people get wide body kits on their cars so they can put wider tyres on so there must be a benefit from wider tyres.

in the dry

b2tf · 28-04-2005, 10:03 AM

New tactic today i think:

Many thanks to Zetec (Matt) for putting up with my questions about this last night, i really appreciate your help mate!

Im going to give Ford CRC a call in a minute, and hopefully get my hands on a document that says that these wheels were optional to ALL Focus models - in particular the 02 CL Model, which is what ive got. Failing that, if i make a copy of a dealers accessory folder which clearly shows them available to all models, hopefully NRMA will realise that Ford made these wheels available for all models and they're perfectly safe.

Im not sure this will convince them, but its definately something for me to be able to show them and say that the company that made the wheels and the vehicle have no issues with it.

So here's hoping.

b2tf · 28-04-2005, 07:41 PM

:

Well, I think Ive got it sorted. I had a callback from the CRC this afternoon after talking to a girl this morning, who said she would look into it for me. And as i have been told and suspected all along, there is no difference in an 02 Focus compared to an 03 model, mechanical or otherwise.

Therefore, NRMA have got it wrong and have no grounds to stand on when they say 'the 02 model cant have them but the 03 model can'.

Furthermore, i went to my dealers today, and had them check further for me. The part number for the wheels has never changed - indicating that they were available right from Day 1 to ALL Focus models - i photocopied the page in the accessories brochure that has them, and right next to the part number it lists what models they will suit. Have a guess what the very first model listed was - yep, you guessed it - 5dr CL Focus. The salesman who sold me the car also agreed to let NRMA call him should they want confirmation that they were a dealer fit option for all models. And seeing as i still have the invoice for them from Spares, there's no doubt they are genuine Ford so they cant play that card at me either.

So I've pretty much done all I can to prove that the wheels are safe, and designed by Ford for the car. If NRMA still arent satisfied with that then it's their loss as i will take my business elsewhere, and so will anyone who ends up in the same situation, however I think if they have any sense they will see they've stuffed up and agree to cover my car, and any like it. Here's hoping.

I'll let you know how it goes.

zetec · 28-04-2005, 08:49 PM

Go you good thing!!! Nobody mess with Aust!!!!!

b2tf · 28-04-2005, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zetec

Go you good thing!!! Nobody mess with Aust!!!!!

Hehe. Im glad ive been able to prove them wrong, because for a moment i was worried i might have done something illegal etc by putting them on. Ive always thought they were fine (and they look great too!), and at least now i have the proof.

WASACL · 29-04-2005, 08:50 AM

Be like Russ....
Want the insurance company doesnt know cant hurt them....

Hehehe

:
Russ

loxxr6 · 29-04-2005, 10:31 AM

As an IAG employee I'll clear this up.

Only the ST170 is acceptable with 7" rims. All others irrespective of year can only have a 6.5" rim width.

b2tf · 29-04-2005, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loxxr6

As an IAG employee I'll clear this up.

Only the ST170 is acceptable with 7" rims. All others irrespective of year can only have a 6.5" rim width.

Seems odd that they told me an 03 CL can have them then doesnt it?

loxxr6 · 29-04-2005, 10:37 AM

Let me double check through one of our underwriters and not the info which is available to the staff.

b2tf · 29-04-2005, 10:44 AM

loxx,

what they told me was an 03 model CL can have them, but an 02 model (which is what ive got) cant. I find that hard to believe specially when i have confirmation from Ford that there are no differences between the 2 models.

loxxr6 · 29-04-2005, 11:58 AM

I have nfi how they come to their decisions either.

If there's no physical difference between the models 02/03 then maybe its a company decision based on a bad run of luck with larger wheels and claims or something....They may just not want the extra risk ?

Unfortunately with a lot of insurance companies the answer is " because that's how it is".

Shop around anyway.

b2tf · 29-04-2005, 01:29 PM

The problem is solved.

I went to NRMA today armed with offical documents from Ford, the dealers who sold me the car, as well as a copy of the accessories brochure that shows them as clearly available to all models.

No dice. They werent interested, they even went so far as to suggest Ford were lying and (i quote) 'Ford just churn these things out and probably dont even test them'. That really ****ed me off.

So ok, fine, we'll take off the wheels.

'Oh ok, that will still be an extra $40'.

I couldnt believe it - not only were they not convinced that the wheels were safe, even after Ford said they were, they actually had the guts to ask me to pay them further to take them off.
At this point it was getting pretty evident i was not happy, so the woman i was speaking with got her supervisor.
I went through it about 4 times with the supervisor who was not the sharpest tool in the shed, eventually she told me in simple terms "had the wheels have been on the car when it left the factory it would be ok, but because you put them on, they're not".

:?!!!Theyre the same damn wheels, the only difference is who put them on the car! Its a joke.

So needless to say NRMA wont be getting a cent of my money, dad's also going to cancel his insurance for the AU2 with them now because of this. They are stubborn even in the face of logicality and reason, and it is costing them business.

I will also be sending a letter to their head office explaining the situation and telling them they are wrong and that its been proven without doubt they are.

Anyway, all is good now, the car is fully insured with GIO, who not only were happy with the wheels, but even gave me a free calendar, pen and golf balls (all corporate stuff) cos the manager of the branch who did it all for us liked my car so much lol. Because of that im glad i put the wheels on!

TheSneakiness · 29-04-2005, 01:42 PM

Well, nice to know that you've cleared that up B2tF.

rag top · 29-04-2005, 05:52 PM

Good to see that shopping around paid off. I hope GIO gave you a good price in comparision with NRMA.

loxxr6 · 29-04-2005, 06:12 PM

Quote:

'Oh ok, that will still be an extra $40'.

So what was the deal re the extra money they wanted ???

Quote:

I couldnt believe it - not only were they not convinced that the wheels were safe, even after Ford said they were, they actually had the guts to ask me to pay them further to take them off.
At this point it was getting pretty evident i was not happy, so the woman i was speaking with got her supervisor.
I went through it about 4 times with the supervisor who was not the sharpest tool in the shed, eventually she told me in simple terms "had the wheels have been on the car when it left the factory it would be ok, but because you put them on, they're not".

?!!!Theyre the same damn wheels, the only difference is who put them on the car! Its a joke.

Quote:

No dice. They werent interested, they even went so far as to suggest Ford were lying and (i quote) 'Ford just churn these things out and probably dont even test them'. That really ****ed me off.

I agree that wasn't the best answer on the staff member's part. It is unfortunate that a lot of the frontline staff (yet alone a lot of insurance staff) that take these enquiries aren't mechanically minded plus have to answer questions which they themselves are not fully equipped to do so.

This is where specialists insurers like Shannons and Just Cars etc pay off.

Quote:

So needless to say NRMA wont be getting a cent of my money, dad's also going to cancel his insurance for the AU2 with them now because of this. They are stubborn even in the face of logicality and reason, and it is costing them business.

They, like some other insurers won't budge on guidelines just because money is involved. This is not an uncommon practice among insurers. Guidelines go before $$'s.

If you want details on where to send your complaint, pm me.

Quote:

Anyway, all is good now, the car is fully insured with GIO, who not only were happy with the wheels, but even gave me a free calendar, pen and golf balls (all corporate stuff) cos the manager of the branch who did it all for us liked my car so much lol. Because of that im glad i put the wheels on!

Good to hear you did find an insurer which could accommodate you tho ! That's the main thing.

b2tf · 30-04-2005, 12:12 AM

Quote:

So what was the deal re the extra money they wanted ???

I dont know, all they said was if we were to take the wheels off, we had to call them once it was done and they would add $40 to the premium because of it. No explanation as to why.

Quote:

I agree that wasn't the best answer on the staff member's part. It is unfortunate that a lot of the frontline staff (yet alone a lot of insurance staff) that take these enquiries aren't mechanically minded plus have to answer questions which they themselves are not fully equipped to do so.

This is where specialists insurers like Shannons and Just Cars etc pay off.

Yeah in all honesty i thought it was rude, she basically dismissed all the info I had and treated me like a complete idiot. I realise theyre only telling me what they have in front of them, and thats fine, but there is a right way to go about it, she wasnt interested in what i had to say at all.

Quote:

They, like some other insurers won't budge on guidelines just because money is involved. This is not an uncommon practice among insurers. Guidelines go before $$'s.

Yes i understand this too, but when the guideline is quite obviously wrong and is proven to be wrong by the manufacturer of the vehicle in question, i would have thought they would sit up and take notice. im not quite sure how NRMA compile their vehicle data but they have got it wrong in this case.

Quote:

If you want details on where to send your complaint, pm me.

That would be good, i dont want to make a 'complaint' as such, rather i want to show them that they are wrong, at least then they may realise it or take notice, or they may just do nothing. Either way I'm a stubborn bugger and i want to have a bitch :the_finge !

Quote:

Good to hear you did find an insurer which could accommodate you tho ! That's the main thing.

That's right, as much as I hate insurance companies at least now i know for sure im covered if something happens. And thats what its all about.

Timmeh · 30-04-2005, 01:41 PM

Insurance companies - who needs them!

_

It's like paying for vaccinations for diseases I don't even have!

:

(to quote a great man)

Tim

30-04-2005, 02:01 PM

good to hear you FINALLY got it sorted out.

Must have left a bad taste in the mouth but....

b2tf · 01-05-2005, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hambo_12

good to hear you FINALLY got it sorted out.

Must have left a bad taste in the mouth but....

Yep, it has. I thought NRMA were a pretty good company to go with up until all of this - as a result they've lost both our cars and our house and contents insurance.

MITCHAY · 01-05-2005, 08:26 PM

mmm weird $40. When i got my 16x6.5" (Stock was like 14 or 15X5.5" not quite sure on TX5) fitted my premium went up by 8 cents but they charge you $40 for taking yours off. Thats really stupid the way they come up with their prices. Im also with NRMA but insured through my parents name. In regards to guidelines. Their guidelines are crap. I like to see proof that half and inch wider is more likely to cause an accident. If there was evidence to this point then other than the explanation "In our technical experience" why dont they provide documents to back the explanation up. Insurance is big business. As long as they get their money, and its doesnt matter how and why they get it. I mean these new insurance about how acts of terrorism and war are not covered is crap. What would be the point in having insurance then? Anyways glad to hear that its all good. Maybe if enough people got fed up then they would **** off NRMA aswell and then maybe they might realize theyre not making any friends.

b2tf · 01-05-2005, 10:40 PM

Well yes, thats waht really puzzled me about it all too.

NRMA of course do bucketloads of test on cars and related items every year, and while the woman i was speaking to couldnt actually give me any details as to why the 17's were in their opinion 'unsafe', im sure they have their reasoning for it. It's just that i find it HIGHLY unlikely that the 17's are unsafe - if anything i think they're safer than the normal 15x6.5's that are standard fare.

Now before you all post back about tyres cutting through water etc, hear me out. In the limited experience i have in driving, i have always felt safer and found it easier to handle a car which has wide tyres. The contact with the road and subsequent grip is a very reassuring thing, and not once have i even felt i was coming close to spinning out or losing control in the wet.
The whole thing that strikes me as being very odd about this issue was that NRMA did have a problem with me putting the wheels on the car - and by that, i mean me buying them and taking them to a tyre center to have them fitted with the best quality, brand new tyres i could get for a decent price (although i didnt skimp on them), fitted, balanced and aligned and put on the car properly, but they didnt have a problem with the wheels if they came on the car from the factory.

If these wheels are supposedly unsafe due to their width, what is putting them on at a factory as opposed to a tyre place going to change? Do they magically become safer - i think not.

It boggles the mind to think how they reached that conclusion, and they've overlooked (or ignored) some key facts:

* The wheels are genuine Ford items, not aftermarket
* They've passed German & Australian safety standards, as well as Ford's own standards (something NRMA didnt believe)
* They were designed specifically for the Focus therefore perfectly safe and the car is able to handle them

And as for having the balls to ask people to pay more money to take wheels off to satisfy them, well that's just not good business.

So again, why they think someone wearing a Ford shirt putting them on in a Factory is going to make them safer is beyond me. I dont think they understand the term 'dealer fit accessory'.

Anyway, ive been through all of this a few times too many now so i will leave it at that (i hear the collective sigh of relief). As I said, im a stubborn bastard and in this case i'm glad i was.

zetec · 02-05-2005, 12:30 AM

Funnily enough, most tyre centres are so much more qualified to fit tyres professionally it's just not funny. Strange that... Usually Dealers use a local tyre centre anyway which blows the NRMA myth out the door!

They've passed German & Australian safety standards, as well as Ford's own standards (something NRMA didnt believe) What the? Sounding more like the Commonwealth Bank/Telstra mentality there than the mentality of an Association for the Motorists.... What idiot thought they weren't Ford approved when you can only buy them from Ford?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!

And Aust, as much as your limited experience might think otherwise, the fact is that the wider the tyre, the more water it has to displace in the wet and scientifically it has to displace more water more quickly. Most of the time when you increase the diameter of the rim, you decrease the profile of the tyre, meaning your tread depth techincally is a little smaller, meaning an overall smaller volume of tread space for the water to escape, so you now have both more width and less space. This means the water has to travel further to be squeezed out, AND less water can actually make that trip in the same time. Until you can perform a back to back test with a control tyre, you won't be able to know for sure personally. What they are saying makes sense.

Here's some awesome info that might seem obvious to some, intersting to others and fascinating to us all I hope!! http://www.smartmotorist.com/rai/rai.htm

b2tf · 02-05-2005, 12:37 AM

Matt,

im sure youre right, but like ive said, the wider tyres have never done me any wrong, if anything they've actually helped me out in a few situations in the AU. Everything you're saying makes sense, but FFS, i should have the freedom to put a wheel that was designed for the damn car on there without so much bs surrounding that choice.

Pieoter · 02-05-2005, 01:25 AM

The contact area between the wide tyres and narrow tyre will be the same. The wider tyres will have a shorter contact area while the narrow tyre will have a longer one. The only thing effecting contact area is vehicle weight and tyre pressure.

Insurance companies are very strict and often don't make any sense eg One company wanted to withhold my friends payout because he had a bodykit on the car, that wouldn't be a problem but the car came stock with a bodykit, it wasn't an option all cars came with the kit. They don't even both checking the specification of the cars they are insuring.