Whats stopping people from buying the Falcon?

[martyk54]

Originally Posted by K10wN

Small/Medium cars have caught up in power, options, finish, and most of all reliability. With all the same quality for less money, the question should be why would you buy a Falcon. I could only see that it would be bought by those who buy it just for the name and it's heritage.

I wouldn't buy one. In fact, Ford hasn't made a car I would consider buying in the last 10 years. Even then I didn't want a FWD car, but you buy it because there's nothing else unless you go for an older car.

A Cougar??

Originally Posted by K10wN

Last Falcon I owned was an XF S-Pack, an XE S-pack before that, a Sundowner XC panelvan before that. I got my licence in an XA GT Coupe, and had an XW 302 Fairmont on my learners.

In the 60's, 70's, 80's and the beginning of the 90's the big Fords/Holdens were the best, most reliable vehicle on the road in Austalia, and for the same money for an import you got less car, that wasn't overly reliable and expensive on parts. It made sense then to buy a Falcon.

All this before you even consider the reduction in protection to the local manufacturers in trade policy.

If I look at what's on the market today I'd be looking at a BMW. But then I look at the type of people driving them and come to my senses.

I don't think your point makes any sense, plus your last comment is ridiculous. It seems you're purchasing decisions are clouded by public opinion and stereotypes. The Falcon is still a world class car, which is easily comparable to similar spec Euro models, while having a much lower cost to purchase and maintain. Find a Euro sedan, which performs as well as the XR6T for even double the price. Euros are still performing worse in new car complaint surveys too. Ironic you say Falcon was once reliable, yet no more? Then say you'd go for a BMW, FAR from a known reliable brand.

[K10wN]

Originally Posted by martyk54

A Cougar??

What other choices from Ford in medium size 2 door coupe are there? What Capri? My Cougar has been faultless since purchase. It's new price was a joke however (more than a Falcon), hence why I didn't buy it new at first release.

I don't think your point makes any sense, plus your last comment is ridiculous. It seems you're purchasing decisions are clouded by public opinion and stereotypes. The Falcon is still a world class car, which is easily comparable to similar spec Euro models, while having a much lower cost to purchase and maintain. Find a Euro sedan, which performs as well as the XR6T for even double the price. Euros are still performing worse in new car complaint surveys too. Ironic you say Falcon was once reliable, yet no more? Then say you'd go for a BMW, FAR from a known reliable brand.

Not my stereotype. It's the same as the very well expressed stereotype on the AFF about VN commodore drivers.

No where did I say Falcon is no longer reliable. What I did say is imported cars which were not known to be so reliable in past years now are of equal standard to cope with harsh Aussie conditions.

Why BMW? What else is there in a medium sized 2 door coupe that is rear wheel drive (135i)?

[martyk54]

Originally Posted by K10wN

No where did I say Falcon is no longer reliable. What I did say is imported cars which were not known to be so reliable in past years now are of equal standard to cope with harsh Aussie conditions.

Korean brands have improved a lot, Japanese are good like always but Euro has never been as reliable in comparison... Years of new car complaint surveys show that.

Originally Posted by K10wN

Why BMW? What else is there in a medium sized 2 door coupe that is rear wheel drive (135i)?

OK, so tell us exactly what it is about 135i drivers that you despise to the point that it's stopping you from fulfilling your particular taste? Sounds like this could be the least of your troubles.

[F6E]

Originally Posted by martyk54

OK, so tell us exactly what it is about 135i drivers that you despise to the point that it's stopping you from fulfilling your particular taste? Sounds like this could be the least of your troubles.

Awesome little car. goes hard, stops even harder and handles brilliantly, 96000km, totally trouble free. Swear to God it drives exactly the same today as 3 years ago.
The Mrs hasnt adapted to the F6, too big, too "loose" and not enough gadgets (rain sensing wipers, etc, etc ) blah, blah...maybe she has become a brand snob ? Beetch !

There are a hell of a lot of quality cars now in the sub $30K drive away bracket.
The culprit Mazda 3 is 'from' $21 690 drive away (Courier Mail 7/1/12)
My pick - Honda Accord Euro $29 990 drive away

[BA-XT]

Originally Posted by K10wN

In the 60's, 70's, 80's and the beginning of the 90's the big Fords/Holdens were the best, most reliable vehicle on the road in Austalia, and for the same money for an import you got less car, that wasn't overly reliable and expensive on parts. It made sense then to buy a Falcon.

All this before you even consider the reduction in protection to the local manufacturers in trade policy in recent times.

If I look at what's on the market today I'd be looking at a BMW. But then I look at the type of people driving them and come to my senses.

Disagree. I love my Ford BA and will defend it to the hilt, but through the 60's to at the very earliest late 90's the most reliable car wasn't the Ford or Holden. Toyota had that taken care off easily (I owned 2 vintage Land Cruisers). The VN was so sad it was almost laughable. I can't believe people bought them.

[TheInterceptor]

Whats stopping me?

Lack of funds.



But there's no wagon anyway..

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by TheInterceptor

Whats stopping me?
Lack of funds.

given what you are buying, a falcadore is way over priced, imo.

we are speculating what will happen to ford aus, but what will happen to FPV? they are a Falcon company. they don't seem to be doing any hot hatches or other improved fords.

[whiteelfalcon]

IMO Falcon was best purchase I could have made.

Recently purchased two vehicles Falcon (new) and Focus with 15,000km.
LPG Falcon brand new $28K, focus diesel $25K.

Overpriced - you have to be kidding.
Looked at all the small to medium cars new.
Lancer/rav4/suzuki swifts &pretend 4wd thingy $23k-~36k $25-27k hyundai wagons etc.

Falcon fuel $52-$56/week and servicing significantly cheaper.
I am way ahead.
Comfortable seats, stereo, interior. Only thing that truly lets it down are the *horrendous* factory rims.

The difference in yearly fuel costs alone pay for the car payments.
The focus as soon as I can get rid of it it will be out the door. The servicing costs are a killer.

If there had been a turbo lpg Falcon I would have immediately purchased it.

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

given what you are buying, a falcadore is way over priced, imo.

we are speculating what will happen to ford aus, but what will happen to FPV? they are a Falcon company. they don't seem to be doing any hot hatches or other improved fords.

[mik]

it easy to buy a good second hand fleet henry with low k`s, market has heaps of them, i was tempted myself a few weeks ago, fg less than 100,000 kilometers, if you wanted to save a buk why would you buy new? less than 20k drive away.

[Joe5619]

Do poeple really buy cars based on stero types? There must be ALLOT of dumb people out there!! I guess things like price, safetly, cost & features mean nothing..

[AU Mont]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Do poeple really buy cars based on stero types? There must be ALLOT of dumb people out there!! I guess things like price, safetly, cost & features mean nothing..

YES !!

i dunno why everyone wont accept that fact!!?

People who look at buying new cars these days go straight to japanese & euro makes, even if they just think the cars are built there

i personally seen a few females that have bought mazda 3 or suzuki swift and been severely ripped off at the dealer (after extras tint,mats etc.) on their flash new purchase on what is a pretty damn basic featured car........... do you honestly think these people have any sort of clue about cars other than how 'sexy' they think it looks, will it fit a large maccas coke and if they can connect their ipod to it.

my dad went from XR6T to a VW and vowed never to go back to a falcon regardless what they put out. Driving his "euro" makes him feel special, and hes already eyeing off his next purchase........ a $70,000 Mercedes Diesel

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by AU Mont

YES !!

i dunno why everyone wont accept that fact!!?

People who look at buying new cars these days go straight to japanese & euro makes, even if they just think the cars are built there

That is not a stero type, that is brand image & loyalty.. Stero types are like "bogons" buy Falcons & "Posh" people buy BMWs!!

[K10wN]

I certainly won't argue about the reliability of the Tojo Landcruiser. My father is still driving Landcruisers and has had many of them over the last 40 years.

But we are talking about cars and similar cars to the Falcon, not offroaders/4x4's.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by K10wN

I certainly won't argue about the reliability of the Tojo Landcruiser. My father is still driving Landcruisers and has had many of them over the last 40 years.

But we are talking about cars and similar cars to the Falcon, not offroaders/4x4's.

So why are you bringing 2 door coupes into the discussion then?

[K10wN]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

So why are you bringing 2 door coupes into the discussion then?

Whats stopping people from buying the Falcon?
As the Falcon has not been available as a 2 door since the XC, that should make it pretty obvious why I'm not interested in newer Falcons.

A 2 door BA->FG I'd probably look twice at and consider it very closely.

I test drove the Mustang and the BA was a much nicer drive with a better driving position. The LHD to RHD conversion on the Mustang was a shocker.

[RAPID_BA]

If people dont start buying new ones then there wont be many used falcons available in the future.

I think most people are more astute with their money these days, buying what they need rather than overspending.

Lets face it, a mazda 3 or camry do a good job for a people mover for a family. Why spend the extra $5000-$10000 to get into a falcon. Do families really need 400nm torque for a family car?

People are usually mortgaged to the tilt or struggling to pay their rent. Have a few kids etc etc. now do they say I need a car with 400nm torque or save $5000-10000 and get something to do the job, with the money saved a tv and a holiday. All competing for that dollar.

Not all of us are car enthusiasts, probably a dying breed, I reckon most people out there wont even know to change the oil of a car.

As for commodore continuing to sell I think the looks of the commodore are more well received. For instance a mate of mine just bought a holden ss new. I asked him did you consider a xr6t or fpv gs? He flat out said no didnt even consider it.

Im a falcon man as we all are. Ill buy a new fpv gs or gt in the short to medium future because im an enthusiast not because it fits my needs better than a mazda 3.

To sell falcons to the mainstream, ford have to attack on price, too many cheaper alternatives that meet a families minimum criteria. (falcon offers more but at a price)

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Ill buy a new fpv gs or gt in the short to medium future because im an enthusiast not because it fits my needs better than a mazda 3.

thats it, they are quickly becoming a niche market, more something that is bought because someone wants a big boofy sedan with a bit of grunt, not because they wanna tow their caravan, or transport their 12 kids, of tow their 300t horsefloat...

[Bossxr8]

Small cars cost half of what large cars do. Is it a simple case that now small cars can offer good interior space, better economy and equipment levels comparable to large cars that's its a no brainer people are choosing them over much more expensive large cars?

Large cars used to offer much more than what small cars used to, they were poorly equipped, cramped, gutless and tinny. Now that they aren't I really don't know why so many people are surprised small cars outsell large. Its a simple equation that if 2 products can do the same thing then the one that costs half as much will sell in much higher numbers.

SUV's have also become highly available, and aren't like big trucks to drive anymore like the old Cruisers and Patrols used to be.

People have much more alternatives than they used to.

[Brazen]

I still think a Falcon is one of the most reliable cars you can buy off the showroom floor... I dont think reliability is ever been a Falcon problem at all.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I still think a Falcon is one of the most reliable cars you can buy off the showroom floor... I dont think reliability is ever been a Falcon problem at all.

Agreed

[mik]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I still think a Falcon is one of the most reliable cars you can buy off the showroom floor... I dont think reliability is ever been a Falcon problem at all.

totally agree Brazen.

[In Focus]

http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and..._and_territory

Ford will axe Falcon and Territory
By Neil DowlingThe Sunday Times06 January 2012EmailPrint+-
Ford CEO Alan Mulally ... the real story is about whether Australia plays a manufacturing role in the building of the next large car.
Ford will dump the rear-drive Falcon - and probably the Territory - within five years.

Ford boss Alan Mulally won’t say it and he won’t even hint at it - merely putting off the announcement with "We’ll talk about that in the future" - but the writing is on the wall, tucked in between the rhetoric, the hyperbole and the irritatingly repetitive "One Ford" sales pitch.

Related CoverageFord won't drop FalconFord EcoSport compact SUV at $22,000Ford US will back the FalconElectric cars could save Commodore and FalconFord Territory starts deliveriesBuy a FordMore on FORDCar news & reviews
The issue really isn’t about Ford going front-wheel drive. Or losing the Falcon name. Or seeing the end of television battles at Bathurst and commonality at taxi ranks all over the nation. Get used to it - it’s over. No, the real story is about whether Australia plays a manufacturing role in the building of the next large car.

Mulally is strong on the “One Ford” principle that he masterminded. He isn’t a "car guy" like most of his contemporary auto industry chiefs. But he is an astute businessman and he knows the importance of cutting costs as much as every engineer knows the benefits of cutting vehicle weight. One of his causes is parts sharing. He reckons - and no-one’s arguing - that 60-70 per cent of a vehicle segment can share the same parts.

Taken further, with the C-segment Focus, there are 11 "top hats" - engineer speak for bodies that can range from sedans to hatches, wagons to coupes, convertibles to SUVs, utes to vans. The platform, complete with the drivetrain choice, is the same for the 11 variants.

That’s economy of scale.

The second of his causes is placing the right car segment at the centre of its market. No more mass global distribution of vehicles from one plant. An example is Ford’s B-segment vehicles - Fiesta, Figo and EcoSport - in India for the Asia-Pacific market.

The Indian market alone is massive and is forecast to rise to nine-million units a year by 2020. It’s an ideal place to be when you’re making small cars for its developing and maturing market.

Australia, by contrast, is bouncing around one-million vehicle sales a year and will probably be unlikely to hit 1.5 million by 2020. Ford has a modest but important slice of this market but its large car sales performance is poor, falling to around 18,000 Falcon sales in 2011 - it’s lowest figure since Ford began making the car in 1960.

Mulally admits that he can’t get every model to be structured on these lines - but he can do about 95 per cent. The odd ones out will include Mustang, which is a specific niche-market vehicle with specific drivetrain demands and a rear-drive platform.

Just like Falcon. Or is it? Mulally says motorists in the US, like other countries including Australia, are downsizing. That’s seen in the large car market in most global markets going into reverse over the past decade, and more so in the past five years.

"In the old days we would say the market was 25 per cent small car, 25 per cent mid-size cars and 50 per cent large cars," he said at the 2012 Delhi motor show where he unveiled the Indian-built, world focussed and Fiesta-based EcoSport SUV.

"Small cars were then seen as cheap and cheerful. Not anymore. Juts look at the Fiesta. We made a conscious decision to make cars for people that didn’t compromise on quality or safety or comfort or fuel efficiency or smart design but they wanted to choose a vehicle that works for them.

"You can se the future now. Now, nearly 60 per cent of vehicles - that’s 100 million a year - are B and C segment. Then 25 per cent are C and D segment and only 15 per cent are D and E segment. That’s a dramatic turnaround."

He said that the parts sharing and the acceptance that the company can make one car for a lot of markets - albeit with different "top hats" - is the key to Ford’s survival and by doing so, will make it the "most successful car company" in the world.

"When I joined (Ford, about five years ago) we had 97 nameplates. It’ll soon be 13 off eight or nine platforms with every variation - 11 variations on the Focus’ C-segment platform alone. That’s the future. The variation will be available to all our customers. We’ll be more affordable than anybody else."

Mulally knows the markets - importantly, the customers - are changing.

"Australia’s changing, the same way that the US is changing. You are seeing more and more smaller cars to serve the Australian customers," he says.

Where does Mulally see the rear-drive car in 10 years time?

"We don’t really know yet but clearly, the segment is getting smaller and we’re going to build platforms but over time, everything will move to that (downsizing) strategy - Falcon’s a great vehicle now and we’re continuing to invest in it over the next few years but over time, this is where the world is going - we’re going to be in every segment and we’ll make world-class product even if the segment is small. We’re always going to have a D/E segment car. It’s going to become more and more efficient - over time, right? - which can become a family of cars because that’s what the Australian customer wants."

And then the clanger: "Most customers don’t care where the car is made. They want the best value for money they can get."

Ford Australia can build - or at least - assemble a car and is likely to be very successful doing it. It can import the platform of the Ford Fusion - a C-D segment car shown in pre-production form at this month’s Detroit motor show - and "top hat" it with a sedan, hatch and SUV body made in Geelong.

It could even play a role in continuing with a rear-drive Falcon by continuing to supply partner Prodrive with Falcon sedan, ute and Territory shells to be built and sold as FPVs. That would create a niche market business for Australia’s performance enthusiasts while moving the car to a more upmarket position, away from taxi ranks, fleets and all the low-rent stigma that goes with those markets.

Hell, FPV could even launch low-cost performance vehicles to ignite the bottom end of the market.

It’s all possible. Just delete the Falcon word.

My take: more negative journalistic speculation.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by In Focus

http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and..._and_territory



My take: more negative journalistic speculation.

If thats your take, then you'll have to lump the CEO of Ford operations worldwide as full of negative speculation too, given the bulk of the article was direct quotes from him.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

If thats your take, then you'll have to lump the CEO of Ford operations worldwide as full of negative speculation too, given the bulk of the article was direct quotes from him.

yes but like most journalists, the quotes were all out of context. most journo's have some sort of agenda, and ford bashing is popular.

[In Focus]

Originally Posted by prydey

yes but like most journalists, the quotes were all out of context. most journo's have some sort of agenda, and ford bashing is popular.

Correct. And the more words (or rather, less) the journos get out of Ford senior management, the more the journos try to make something out of little. It's a wonder the Ford execs talk to local journalists at all, given the tendency to state "fact" based on what was (or even wasn't) spoken, probably off the cuff.

[Falc'man]

Neil Dowling? Is he married to Joshua?

[Homer]

Why would you expect someone to spend twice as much for a car that will be worth less in five years time then a car that is 50% of its rrp, uses more fuel, is less reliable, not as well put together, relatively boring styling wise compared to the smaller offerings with less features, and from a brand that has a relatively bad name.
It’s not hard to see why it’s not selling, the car isn’t what the majority of the market wants in a new car.

The Ecoboost may sell a few more to fleets, but appealing to fleets isn’t a brand maker.

[z80]

Walk into any dealership.

They are all having trouble selling new cars.

I had eighteen thousand dollars knocked off the list price of a car two weeks ago...

The sheete is hitting the fan for all of them, the german manufacturers are bleeding the same as all the others.

[Angeldust]

If u correlated that graph with changes in vehicle weight/size, u would see that nothing has changed..

Small cars are now medium cars, medium cars are now large, and large cars are stupidly too large etc...

[FPV8U]

If EcoLpi and the Ecoboost Falcon don't boost sales i see no other choice but to cut the model, it's not moving and it's a great car, i have been very tempted to move on a 2011 MK1 XR6T with the deals they are doing but i don't like debt, im still hoping that the XR8 will see the light of day again and if im 100% honest in no way would i be upgrading twice within a 4-5 year period if they did re-reale it at a later date.