Hybrid Ford's in the US. When for AUS?

BDA074 · 02-01-2011, 11:54 AM

Just returned from the US and could not help but notice the amount of Hybrid there. Not small ones either! Anything from Hatch's to full size SUV's.
Ford were playing in this area too with the Ford Escape Hybrid and the Ford Fusion Hybrid. The latter gets 41mpg (6.5L/100km) and is Mondeo/Falcon sized.
Check out: http://www.ford.com
This looks perfect for the Australian Market.
Could Ford seal this technology and drop it in the Falcon?
How well would a 6.5l/100km Falcon sell!!

Thoughts?

nobbystang · 02-01-2011, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDA074

Just returned from the US and could not help but notice the amount of Hybrid there. Not small ones either! Anything from Hatch's to full size SUV's.

Personally I would never buy one, would go the more economical diesels before considering anything Hybrid.

Unsure of the cost, but have been told that the batteries in a Prius need to be replaced every 90k miles. Unsure what other extra maintenance is required, but surely Hybrids aren't worth the effort at the moment.

XR Martin · 02-01-2011, 02:41 PM

Depends if you are willing to spend an extra $5k+ to save only 30% fuel?
Ecoboost I4 Falcon should get around 7l/100km anyway.

TC200six · 02-01-2011, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Ecoboost I4 Falcon should get around 7L/100km anyway.

+1

Ford seem to be into their Ecoboost technology more so than Hybrid. I'd be surprised if Ford would put both into the Falcon since Ecoboost is about the same in terms of economy.

bigsta · 02-01-2011, 04:18 PM

I think the chevy volt may be a bit of a game changer when Holden release it here this year i think.

I cant remember the exact range but i think it was 100KM or more from a 6hr charge in a standard outlet more than enough for what most people do in a day and than if you wanna drive to brissy it has a "range extender" lawnmower engine which is not a drive engine but just a generator which uses something crazy like 2L/100KM.

This much different to anything else out there because most people who buy it may only put petrol in it a few times a year if at all.

Im too much of a petrol head to be buying one but i think its the first proper hybrid as the pyrus is a joke it uses more juice than a fiesta and is only marginally better than a corolla.

If this takes off like it should we may see pety prices come down and meaner and better V8s coming out along with plug in hybrids like this too.

bigsta · 02-01-2011, 04:28 PM

sorry 35 miles range 4 hours to fully charge 0-60MPH in 9 seconds

http://www.chevrolet.com/volt/

not a bad looking car too

Kryton · 02-01-2011, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nobbystang

Unsure of the cost, but have been told that the batteries in a Prius need to be replaced every 90k miles. .

Untrue.
Was reading an article about the Prius and of all the Prius' sold in Australia, there was only 1 that had needed a battery change.
Cant remember the reason for it but it wasnt because it hit 90000km or miles.
It was done under warranty anyway so it was no cost to the owner - even though the car was out of warranty.
There are examples out there with over +250000km on them, still on the original battery and still going strong.

Bossxr8 · 02-01-2011, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigsta

I think the chevy volt may be a bit of a game changer when Holden release it here this year i think.

I cant remember the exact range but i think it was 100KM or more from a 6hr charge in a standard outlet more than enough for what most people do in a day and than if you wanna drive to brissy it has a "range extender" lawnmower engine which is not a drive engine but just a generator which uses something crazy like 2L/100KM.

This much different to anything else out there because most people who buy it may only put petrol in it a few times a year if at all.

Im too much of a petrol head to be buying one but i think its the first proper hybrid as the pyrus is a joke it uses more juice than a fiesta and is only marginally better than a corolla.

If this takes off like it should we may see pety prices come down and meaner and better V8s coming out along with plug in hybrids like this too.

The Volt will be well over $50,000, for a car around the same size as a Cruze, its built off the same platform.

Would you ever recover the $25,000+ extra it costs in fuel savings over a Cruze diesel?

Fail.

Bossxr8 · 02-01-2011, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDA074

Just returned from the US and could not help but notice the amount of Hybrid there. Not small ones either! Anything from Hatch's to full size SUV's.
Ford were playing in this area too with the Ford Escape Hybrid and the Ford Fusion Hybrid. The latter gets 41mpg (6.5L/100km) and is Mondeo/Falcon sized.
Check out: http://www.ford.com
This looks perfect for the Australian Market.
Could Ford seal this technology and drop it in the Falcon?
How well would a 6.5l/100km Falcon sell!!

Thoughts?

You get similar or better economy in the Mondeo diesel, so whats the point. Hybrids = Fail.

In saying that though i've seen a few Fusion hybrids around the PEO offices being evaluated.

bigsta · 02-01-2011, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The Volt will be well over $50,000, for a car around the same size as a Cruze, its built off the same platform.

Would you ever recover the $25,000+ extra it costs in fuel savings over a Cruze diesel?

Fail.

Pricing has not been released yet but with govt subsidies Holden have said it would be over $30K I would say though it will priced along the same lines as a pirus and it will prob take at least 3 or 4 years to recover that in fuel savings but lets face it the people who buy this car people who buy the pirus will buy it no matter the cost its also a bit larger than the pirus and cruze think camry size

It will be interesting to see if holden offer the 8 year battery warranty like GM do that will also win them sales.

Bossxr8 · 02-01-2011, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigsta

Pricing has not been released yet but with govt subsidies Holden have said it would be over $30K I would say though it will priced along the same lines as a pirus and it will prob take at least 3 or 4 years to recover that in fuel savings but lets face it the people who buy this car people who buy the pirus will buy it no matter the cost its also a bit larger than the pirus and cruze think camry size

It will be interesting to see if holden offer the 8 year battery warranty like GM do that will also win them sales.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2577F4000ACF0E
Hugely expensive. 41k in the US, where cars are cheap.

Probably over 60k I think. If it was 30k it would be 10k cheaper than in the US.

NickyN · 02-01-2011, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2577F4000ACF0E
Hugely expensive. 41k in the US, where cars are cheap.

Probably over 60k I think. If it was 30k it would be 10k cheaper than in the US.

Not sure if the cost of hybrids balances what you'd save on fuel. Heard resale value sucks.... something to consider?

bigsta · 02-01-2011, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2577F4000ACF0E
Hugely expensive. 41k in the US, where cars are cheap.

Probably over 60k I think. If it was 30k it would be 10k cheaper than in the US.

Like I said they have not released pricing yet

And yes $40K in the US is huge you can buy a range rover for that money there but they are moving 300% more than they had predicted and just doubled the plant builds for this year all during the worse financial crisis that country has ever seen.

I am pretty sure you will see pricing in the mid to high $40K mark here which is where the piris is and its doing reasonably well even though its crap and does not really save fuel.

Anyway the trendys will line up for this car no matter the price which will in turn bring the price down with time and make it more popular.

FalconXV · 02-01-2011, 11:00 PM

EcoBoost LiLPG Hybrid. NOW! Seriously though, it's doable (albeit technokill).

Bossxr8 · 02-01-2011, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigsta

Like I said they have not released pricing yet

And yes $40K in the US is huge you can buy a range rover for that money there but they are moving 300% more than they had predicted and just doubled the plant builds for this year all during the worse financial crisis that country has ever seen.

I am pretty sure you will see pricing in the mid to high $40K mark here which is where the piris is and its doing reasonably well even though its crap and does not really save fuel.

Anyway the trendys will line up for this car no matter the price which will in turn bring the price down with time and make it more popular.

Not even close. Take the base price for US RRP and add all the import duties, transport costs plus everything else we have to pay over here and it will easily be mid 50's, if not more. Cars are so much cheaper in the US.

nobbystang · 03-01-2011, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

Untrue.
Was reading an article about the Prius and of all the Prius' sold in Australia, there was only 1 that had needed a battery change.
Cant remember the reason for it but it wasnt because it hit 90000km or miles.
It was done under warranty anyway so it was no cost to the owner - even though the car was out of warranty.
There are examples out there with over +250000km on them, still on the original battery and still going strong.

Just reading an article that says the battery life is expected to be 7-10 years, then you need to fork out $4k to get the battery replaced.

jpd80 · 03-01-2011, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigsta

I think the chevy volt may be a bit of a game changer when Holden release it here this year i think.

I cant remember the exact range but i think it was 100KM or more from a 6hr charge in a standard outlet more than enough for what most people do in a day and than if you wanna drive to brissy it has a "range extender" lawnmower engine which is not a drive engine but just a generator which uses something crazy like 2L/100KM.

This much different to anything else out there because most people who buy it may only put petrol in it a few times a year if at all.

Im too much of a petrol head to be buying one but i think its the first proper hybrid as the pyrus is a joke it uses more juice than a fiesta and is only marginally better than a corolla.

The maths on the Volt doesn't work out, given that there is a $10,000 price gap
between US and AUS Camry hybrid, it is safe to assume a similar gap for the Volt.
Unfortunately, the unsubsidised price of the car is US$41,000 so the retail price
landed here in Australia must surely be over $50,000, am I right?

You be the judge....

Camry Hybrid
- USA $26,000
- AUS $36,000

Volt Exr Range EV
- USA $41,000 .....(less US govt $7,500 subsidy)
- AUS $50,000?

Cost comparison:
Instead of a $50K Volt, a person bought a Cruze for $22,990 drive away,
they would have roughly $28,000 to spend on petrol...or other things..

Although the Volt would have a higher residual value after 4 years,
it still loses more money compared to the original retail value...
You would have to save something like $12,000 in fuel just to break even...

**GasoLane** · 03-01-2011, 02:24 PM

Am I right in thinking that Hybrid's work by using mainly battery power in city traffic and normal (Infernal Combustion) engine on open roads?

chevypower · 03-01-2011, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalconXV

EcoBoost LiLPG Hybrid. NOW! Seriously though, it's doable (albeit technokill).

In order to be "EcoBoost" it would have to be DIRECT LiLPG

bigsta · 03-01-2011, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

The maths on the Volt doesn't work out, given that there is a $10,000 price gap
between US and AUS Camry hybrid, it is safe to assume a similar gap for the Volt.
Unfortunately, the unsubsidised price of the car is US$41,000 so the retail price
landed here in Australia must surely be over $50,000, am I right?

You be the judge....

Camry Hybrid
- USA $26,000
- AUS $36,000

Volt Exr Range EV
- USA $41,000 .....(less US govt $7,500 subsidy)
- AUS $50,000?

Cost comparison:
Instead of a $50K Volt, a person bought a Cruze for $22,990 drive away,
they would have roughly $28,000 to spend on petrol...or other things..

Although the Volt would have a higher residual value after 4 years,
it still loses more money compared to the original retail value...
You would have to save something like $12,000 in fuel just to break even...

I am not saying its a good from a financial point of view especially not in the short term and im sure this being first gen there will be some probs with it as well but what I am saying is this car will get very trendy very quickly and alot of people will take it up no matter the price as this is the first proper hybid that does not need fuel for the majority of driving they do and as well as the the $5000 odd a year they will save at the pump they will also get it in their head they are saving the planet or some crap which the masses will love.

Actually funny thing in NSW i doubt our crap and now sold for a fraction of its real value power grid will be able to cope with thousands of people plugging in their cars....

mrghia · 03-01-2011, 03:34 PM

I don't think the volt will be any better the a hybrid as the electricity prices and going up faster then petrol prices are. It would only really be worth getting if you had solar power.

XR Martin · 03-01-2011, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Am I right in thinking that Hybrid's work by using mainly battery power in city traffic and normal (Infernal Combustion) engine on open roads?

Yeah they are better in the city as they use the braking force to recharge batteries.
On the open road with the A/C on going up hills, overtaking etc it can end up being worse than a conventional car....

Bossxr8 · 03-01-2011, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

In order to be "EcoBoost" it would have to be DIRECT LiLPG

Can cars with direct injection engines use injected LPG?

Or do they just plumb the LPG injectors into the manifold?

ReVd_uP · 04-01-2011, 01:43 AM

months ago on the ring road I saw a Ford badged car (didn't recognise it), with a "left hand drive" sticker on the boot along with a hybrid badge. It was peak hour so I didnt get a real good look at it, another bloke at work said he'd also seen it a week earlier

Crazy Dazz · 04-01-2011, 04:21 AM

One of the first hybrids available in Aus was the Civic, which came out in 2004. It was in many ways superior to the Prius, and was around $8k cheaper!
It flopped because Honda were HONEST, and rather than sucking people in with ********, they presented their hybrid as an honest alternative to the regular Civic.
For an extra $7k, you got a hybrid that was less powerful, weighed a 100kg more, but returned significantly better fuel economy. For most buyers the numbers just didn’t stack up.
Yet Toyota ask $38k for the ****ermobile and knobs snap them up. Perhaps the biggest failing of the Honda was that it looked just like an ordinary Civic, so other knobs couldn’t applaud your greenness.
If people want to pay that sort of ridiculous premium for economical cars, then car companies would put the money into R&D and ALL cars would improve.

Bossxr8 · 04-01-2011, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReVd_uP

months ago on the ring road I saw a Ford badged car (didn't recognise it), with a "left hand drive" sticker on the boot along with a hybrid badge. It was peak hour so I didnt get a real good look at it, another bloke at work said he'd also seen it a week earlier

It would have been a Fusion Hybrid. Product Engineering had a few they were evaluating, as well as the Taurus.

BDA074 · 05-01-2011, 08:42 AM

Interesting that the vast majority of posts do not see merit in Hybrids with valid justification to support.

I still find it interesting that other manufacturers are surging ahead with this technology. Toyota Australia for example will launch 8x new Hybrids in the next 4 years including the Kluger which is already available in the US.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2575EB0081064F

I still find petrol power with the added power of electric (100% torque at zero revs) with super low litres / 100km very appealing. A Kluger Hybrid will surely challenge a Territory Diesel for sales.

Surely this technology will continue to improve as well.

Melz · 05-01-2011, 09:05 AM

Technology will change and improve with time. I remember not that long agomI was dead against dedicated LPG... Until I owned one! Now I wouldn't have it any other way! Hybrid technology has been around for a while now...just takes people a while to warm to it. I know I would consider going hybrid..if it could tow!