Dangerous Dogs in Victoria

[Geez Louise]

In Victoria it is now going to be illegal to keep what is known as a "Dangerous dog" unless it is registered with the local council.

Full Story Here:

As the story reads, it is only for unregistered Pit bull terriors, the charge against owners will be similar to that of dangerous driving or culpable driving

Originally Posted by Herald Sun

THE owners of dangerous dogs that attack people could face jail terms similar to culpable driving, which carries a maximum penalty of 20 years.
Agriculture Minister Peter Walsh said legislation to jail the owners of dangerous dogs who attack people were being finalised by the Attorney General and would be presented to Parliament in a fortnight

"We will come back to Parliament in two weeks with amendments to the crimes act, where owners of restricted type breed dogs and dangerous dogs will be held accountable for the actions of their dog," he said.

"So if that dog commits an offence where it injures, or in the worst case actually kills someone, they'll have a charge against them similar to charges of dangerous driving or culpable driving."

I know it is very sad when a dog attacks someone and causes serious injury or death, but is it the dogs fault or the owners?

My concern with this new act is that ANY dog breed will now come under scrutiny....dangerous or not. And what if someone does get bitten, and the wrong dog is selected and destroyed by council?

I am very much a dog lover and something does need to be done about the spate of attacks but is this a step too far or not far enough?

Please keep to the topic at hand as I am interested in people's opinions on this subject.

Cheers
Col

[Ford_The_Win]

I personally agree with the motion 100% and I am a dog lover. Certain breeds of dog are notoriously dangerous, a lot of little kids have had their throats ripped out by these things over the years, so it's about time they do something about it, I always keep well away from pit bulls and mastiffs when I see one. They were bred specifically to kill things. It doesn't help that knucklehead owners don't train their dogs properly or keep their yard secure and that's when the trouble really starts. They should be made to pay for their carelessness and stupidity.

[GK]

A touchy issue really.

I personally do not see the need for aggressive and more dangerous breeds of dog, except for military/police/security firm type reasons.

I also have pondered why people need to have such a type of dog as a pet. Is it because they feel a need to be strong or superior or tough? Perhaps, but that certainly couldn't be the case for all such owners.

One of my best mates has a couple of Dobermans which come from a very aggressive blood line, now banned in Germany. I've wondered why he would want such animals. He really enjoys their strength and the challenge of training and keeping them.

I can understand his point (even though I would never share it) but am very quick to add that he keeps his dogs under strict care and they are securely locked out the back of their house in good dog runs.

My mate is a responsible owner, and his dogs wouldn't have the opportunity to harm another animal or person.

It's the other dog owners I'm concerned about. But how do you effectively screen dog owners? Who decides the criteria for such ownership?

I guess in the end, it's far easier to ban the breed.

My 2 cents.

GK

[TZENU]

These dog breeds are killers, plain and simple. The owners get them for one reason and one reason only... Back in the day my old man used a pitbull to protect his shop after several break-ins - never had a break-in after that!

[iCat]

the legislation is aimed directly at the 4 breeds that are prohibited imports anyway.

in relation to the pitbulls, if you have one and you declare that fact to your council and register it as such - what's the problem there? if your dog (and your training methods) are trustworthy you have nothing to worry about.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by Geez Louise

In Victoria it is now going to be illegal to keep what is known as a "Dangerous dog" unless it is registered with the local council.

I fail to see how another piece of paper will stop these dogs from being a problem.

I have a German Shepherd, he is quite an imposing dog if you don't know him but I fully trust him around family and kids etc. He is well trained and if I thought for a second he would act up he would be gone. He's also desexed so less hormones etc sending him mad. I chose a GSD for their intelligence (although I question that sometimes!) and loyalty, and he is definitely a protective sort of dog but as I said if you are a friend of ours you are a friend of his. People with Pitbulls etc do make me wonder because they seem like such problem dogs that the downsides far outweigh the good.

Either way regardless of breed I am of the view that any dog that injures or kills a human should be put down on the spot. No questions asked.

[sudszy]

Why does it take someone to get killed to get these laws changed, I think everyone knew pitbulls have no place in our society.

Laws dont go far enough, whatever damage the dog does, owner should be treated as though they committed the assault/killing themselves, that's what it comes down to when one takes on owning any dog.

Not interested in all those "responsible" pitbull owners, if they were responsible they wouldnt have one in the 1st place! I couldnt care less how many doting owners tell us they are loving family pets, if they belong anywhere on the planet its in a zoo in a well secured cage.

Ooh, and dogs that look like pitbulls will be targetted too, when they are some other breed , got knews for folk, if it looks like one it is one.

[gcg2503]

Put simply, Pitbulls have no place in an intelligent and educated society

How many people must be attacked before this breed is banned? I wont pass judgement on the owners of these fine, fun loving, caring, family oriented animals.....

There are two that live close to me and i will be on the phone as soon as this law is passed to the council/police/anyone who will listen......so fast i may even tear my hamstring from the bone running to the phone

This is a topic which really gets my goat up!

Sorry for the rant Coll

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by GK

A touchy issue really.

I personally do not see the need for aggressive and more dangerous breeds of dog, except for military/police/security firm type reasons.

I also have pondered why people need to have such a type of dog as a pet. Is it because they feel a need to be strong or superior or tough? Perhaps, but that certainly couldn't be the case for all such owners.

You have a valid point there. Not all owners obviously, but some of them love the idea of having a really vicious, dominant animal because it compensates for something. Pitbulls and mastiffs are completely inappropriate family pets and only belong guarding prison walls.

[BFZF8]

Pretty sad how the media has brain washed people into believing this stuff.

The American Pit Bull Terrier was specifically bred to be non human aggressive. They were also bred to be dog aggressive. If any of you have ever seen footage of a "professional" dog fight or old paintings that depict dog fighting you'd see that there are two dogs and three humans in the pit. There was a handler for each dog and a referee. The dogs had to be frequently handled and separated during a match. Try breaking up a dog fight with any other breed and see how many stitches you'll need...

Any dog that showed any human aggression was removed from the old timers' breeding programmes on the spot.

Ever notice that it's always a "pit bull cross" that's involved in these attacks? Ever stop and think "hmm, maybe it's the other breed mixed in that the human aggression came from" Of course you don't. It's the evil pit bull as usual.

Lets use the tragic recent fatal attack in Victoria as an example. The dog in question was a mastiff/pit bull cross. Lets assume that there was in fact pit bull blood in the dog to begin with (most people wouldn't know a real pit bull if they fell over one). One breed was bred to guard property and be human aggressive (mastiff) and the other is a fighting dog bred to be non human aggressive. Which breed do you think should be to blame? I don't see any calls for mastiffs to be banned. Maybe because it doesn't sound as sexy as "pit bull".

Sorry for the rant and I'm well aware I'll be shouted down because "my mate's cousin's boyfriend's pit bull mauled my child" but these are the facts. If every single American Pit Bull Terrier was wiped from the face of the earth in one day there wouldn't be one less dog attack on a human per year.

Pit bulls sell papers end of story.

[flappist]

It is amazing how closely the anti pitbull and anti pitbull owner descriptions mirror those of the anti performance car and anti performance car owner brigade.

Keep it civil and on topic please.

[BFZF8]

Originally Posted by flappist

It is amazing how closely the anti pitbull and anti pitbull owner descriptions mirror those of the anti performance car and anti performance car owner brigade.

Exactly. I'm always amazed that the people who the least about a given topic are generally the loudest.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by BFZF8

Pretty sad how the media has brain washed people into believing this stuff.

The American Pit Bull Terrier was specifically bred to be non human aggressive. They were also bred to be dog aggressive.

Either way a dog thats going to go the kill for any other dog and the hell with anything that is between(like a young kid walking the family pet) has no place on our society.

[Geez Louise]

I remember in WA a few years back now, there was a spate of German Shephard attacks and they were going to list that breed on the list of dangerous dogs.

More recently, after an attack in NSW, Husky's were going to be listed.

Is it mainly big dogs that should be added to the list or is it because breed's have been mixed and the blood line has been crossed??

I am not meaning to start any arguements on this, and it is a touchy subject...but who decides which breeds are added to the list? Is it one attack, two attacks?? Who decides?

[BFZF8]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Either way a dog thats going to go the kill for any other dog and the hell with anything that is between(like a young kid walking the family pet) has no place on our society.

There are things called leashes and if people used them there wouldn't be a problem. I run my dogs every night and almost every night I get some idiot's dog/dogs running up to mine and they get very upset when I yell at them to leash them up even though what they're doing is illegal.

An interesting thing with dog aggression in the APBT is that it doesn't transfer into human aggression like it does with other breeds. Refer to what I was saying about how dog fights are conducted. BTW I'm not a dog fighter nor do I believe it has a place in today's world.

[XARATE]

Laws about dangerous dogs are alway have been and always will be a bit of a hit and miss.
I believe banning certain breeds is wrong, its a bit like racism where all are tarred with the same brush due to the actions of a few.
All dogs are capable of doing damage to a human or another animal. Its part of their instict, yes proper training can ruduce the chance of it but it will never remove all risk. Its basic animal instinct to hunt, defend or protect themselfs.

Personally i have seen more aggressive and dangerous jack russells than any other breed. I had one attack my two 9month old staffys at a dog park. Being young playfull jumpy dogs at the time i had them on leads (there were usually kids at the park i didnt want the dogs jumping on them to play)
Now when the unsecured jack russell attacked my staffys, mine secured and under my controll. For nearly 20 seconds (a long time in a fight) not once did my two bark or bite, that was untill the jack russell made a large cut on the neck of my larger pup . Basic natural instinct kicked in with both my dogs and in a few seconds the jack russell was pretty injured and was able to be removed from the fight. The whole time the owner was calling his dog and not actually taking any actions to restrain or remove it.
I recieved a court summons and vet bill days later
Because "my dogs attacked theirs"
If i lived in the city the media would of made me look like the worst person ever and i would no longer have my dogs. Luckily a local off duty police officer seen the whole the thing and cleared me of any wrong doing.

Its storys like mine that politicians and law makers dont hear, they only focus on the large "scary dogs" and as a result we have a few breed targeted for the wrong reason

If laws were made to punish owners of ALL breeds for the wrong doings of their animals it would be alot fairer. It would put pressure on people to prevent their animals getting into bad and dangerous situations, it would pressure people to train, restrain and fence their animals properly. Which would be the outcome that is needed

Right now the majority of dog owners are suffering from the irrisponsible actions of a few dog owners.

[BFZF8]

Originally Posted by XARATE

Laws about dangerous dogs are alway have been and always will be a bit of a hit and miss.
I believe banning certain breeds is wrong, its a bit like racism where all are tarred with the same brush due to the actions of a few.
All dogs are capable of doing damage to a human or another animal. Its part of their instict, yes proper training can ruduce the chance of it but it will never remove all risk. Its basic animal instinct to hunt, defend or protect themselfs.

Personally i have seen more aggressive and dangerous jack russells than any other breed. I had one attack my two 9month old staffys at a dog park. Being young playfull jumpy dogs at the time i had them on leads (there were usually kids at the park i didnt want the dogs jumping on them to play)
Now when the unsecured jack russell attacked my staffys, mine secured and under my controll. For nearly 20 seconds (a long time in a fight) not once did my two bark or bite, that was untill the jack russell made a large cut on the neck of my larger pup . Basic natural instinct kicked in with both my dogs and in a few seconds the jack russell was pretty injured and was able to be removed from the fight. The whole time the owner was calling his dog and not actually taking any actions to restrain or remove it.
I recieved a court summons and vet bill days later
Because "my dogs attacked theirs"
If i lived in the city the media would of made me look like the worst person ever and i would no longer have my dogs. Luckily a local off duty police officer seen the whole the thing and cleared me of any wrong doing.

Its storys like mine that politicians and law makers dont hear, they only focus on the large "scary dogs" and as a result we have a few breed targeted for the wrong reason

If laws were made to punish owners of ALL breeds for the wrong doings of their animals it would be alot fairer. It would put pressure on people to prevent their animals getting into bad and dangerous situations, it would pressure people to train, restrain and fence their animals properly. Which would be the outcome that is needed

Right now the majority of dog owners are suffering from the irrisponsible actions of a few dog owners.

Mate I hear what you're saying but staffords have no business being at a dog park either.You have to remember that your dogs might not start a fight but they will end it. Dog parks are a stupid idea anyway and I wouldn't take any breed of dog to one from a health point of view alone.

Fun fact about staffords: They're Australia's second most poplular dog and are genetically no different to an APBT. What does that tell you?

[Jim Goose]

A lot of dog attacks are not even close to being pitbulls.
The media (like speeding kills etc) has focused on one breed.

Dogs attack for a number of various reasons, poor training, lack of socialising and because they are scared. I also note A LOT OF HUMANS HAVE NO CLUE how to approach a dog they are not familiar with.

Some dogs also dont understand that children are little humans and think they are small animals or even nip them when playing.

The media and a lot of the public (moslty people who have never owned a dog) become very emotional when a dog attacks someone (understandable) however it needs to be said in what context did the dog bite someone, was it being annoyed? Is it a dog with puppies? Has the dog been abused by its owners?

I have had friends who had pure bred rotweillers... both dogs were the biggest babies I had seen. Yet they too are given a bad reputation.

Also have a new neighbour who has a massive boxer cross who seemed very protective of his surroundings and would charge the fence whenever i tried to get near him. He now eats out of my hand after 3 weeks.

Humans are the real issue.... by not training their dogs, incorrect training or not knowing how to approach.

No such thing as a dangerous dog breed..

[XARATE]

BFZF8- Staffy or not their dogs and are allowed in a dog park and i had them on leads. Would you rather me walk them with no leads and down the main street?
Luckily Our local dog park is very clean, the grass is cleaner and greener then our local bowling green, unfortunatly walking throigh the dog park is the only way to get to the bush walking track.

Its views of people like yourself that upset me, dont judge a breed because the actions of a few. ALL dogs are just as dangerous, its all about controll of your animal.

[BFZF8]

Originally Posted by XARATE

BFZF8- Staffy or not their dogs and are allowed in a dog park and i had them on leads. Would you rather me walk them with no leads and down the main street?
Luckily Our local dog park is very clean, the grass is cleaner and greener then our local bowling green, unfortunatly walking throigh the dog park is the only way to get to the bush walking track.

Its views of people like yourself that upset me, dont judge a breed because the actions of a few. ALL dogs are just as dangerous, its all about controll of your animal.

Don't get upset, mate I'm not judging you. I read the part where you said they were on leashes. But did they start the fight? No. Did they end it? Yes. Did you get blamed for it? Yes. You were lucky that the copper was there to see what happened.

And just because the grass is greener doesn't mean the place isn't crawling with disease. Do you reckon everybody's dog is up to date on shots? Your dogs can still get stuff like parvo even if they've been immunized.

[BENT_8]

2 things to say on this

1. If your a sensible owner and can pass random checks to ensure your dangerous breed is in a secure enclosure well away from the general public then i see no problem with owning them.

2. When that poor little girl was ripped apart in the confines of what everyone should believe is their secure place, home, i waited for a thread to appear in relation to the tragedy...nothing, yet legislation gets introduced to restrict the dog and its front page news...no offence intended just interesting to say the least.

Now i'll share my own recent experience
4 months ago my wife and i decided to move from one of the worst suburbs in Sa to a tranquil country type setting so our kids could be allowed to play in the streets and parks free of drunks and troublemakers etc.
All was fine until last week when a quiet tuesday afternoon was disrupted by the screetching of tyres and some strong language from a bloke who lives down the road.
Turns out his 2 pitbulls had escaped and were tearing around the estate through everyones yards going nuts.
This bloke was thrashing around in his ute trying to bail them up but had no chance.
I dont know the end result as we took the kids inside and closed the doors.
I am now paranoid about letting my kids go out to play again, all because some hero needs to own 2 erratic animals capable of tearing any of my 3 kids to pieces and cant keep them in a yard with 7' colorbond fencing.

Mr Weatherill...i hope your listening to your eastern brothers!

[Franco Cozzo]

I don't really care, because:

A) I don't own a dog
B) I hate dogs

Therefore it doesn't effect me.

I leave you with this copy and pasted quote from wikipedia which I quickly edited in an half assed effort (which contradicts my post anyways) to make myself seem wise:

First they came for the gun community, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't involved in the community.

Then they came for the P platers, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a P plater.

Then they came for the performance car community, and I didn't speak out because I didn't own a performance car.

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Pretty much if everyone stood up for each other, regardless if the issue effects you or not, you wouldn't end up in these situations of restrictions of freedoms.

Sure, we don't need guns in our community, we don't need dangerous dogs, I guess we don't need high performance cars either, right? Its only a matter of time.

[BFZF8]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

2 things to say on this

1. If your a sensible owner and can pass random checks to ensure your dangerous breed is in a secure enclosure well away from the general public then i see no problem with owning them.

2. When that poor little girl was ripped apart in the confines of what everyone should believe is their secure place, home, i waited for a thread to appear in relation to the tragedy...nothing, yet legislation gets introduced to restrict the dog and its front page news...no offence intended just interesting to say the least.

Now i'll share my own recent experience
4 months ago my wife and i decided to move from one of the worst suburbs in Sa to a tranquil country type setting so our kids could be allowed to play in the streets and parks free of drunks and troublemakers etc.
All was fine until last week when a quiet tuesday afternoon was disrupted by the screetching of tyres and some strong language from a bloke who lives down the road.
Turns out his 2 pitbulls had escaped and were tearing around the estate through everyones yards going nuts.
This bloke was thrashing around in his ute trying to bail them up but had no chance.
I dont know the end result as we took the kids inside and closed the doors.
I am now paranoid about letting my kids go out to play again, all because some hero needs to own 2 erratic animals capable of tearing any of my 3 kids to pieces and cant keep them in a yard with 7' colorbond fencing.

Pretty much spot on. Everyone should have the right to feel secure in their own home. The lengths I go to to ensure my dogs can't escape my property draws some funny looks when I tell people but at the end of the day I know they're 100% secure because I take it seriously. Not because I'm afraid they'll bite someone but just because I don't want to lose them/have them run over etc.

The bloke that owned the mutt that killed that little girl is a sub human in my book and unfortunately it's people like this who give responsible owners a bad name.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Sure, we don't need guns in our community, we don't need dangerous dogs, I guess we don't need high performance cars either, right? Its only a matter of time.

the difference is that the gun and high performance car need a human using them to do damage. the dangerous dog has a mind of it's own

[FPV8U]

As the owner of a GSD i see no problem in enforcing owners to be more responsible for their pets,

I'd also like to see the same sort of responsiblity put onto someone who decides to come into secure areas of my property uninvited.

[Revolver]

I have been around dogs all my life, even before I was born, My dad & his previous family used competitively show & breed a number of dog breeds. He has been involved in dog showing since he was a teenager until about a decade ago. I too used to show & breed along with my dad when I was younger. The one thing he drummed into me & always said "There is no such thing as a bad dog. Just a bad owner, as Ive always said. Keep the dog, shoot the owner"

Coming from a man with over 50 years of dog showing & breeding experience, I think that statement is: Nail, Head, Hit. After rescuing a number of dogs, it is no wonder why some dogs act the way they do. No dog cannot be retrained.

That was underlined when my dads last protégé's, a couple called Matt & Tanya rescued a Keeshond (That is Kay-zund NOT Quiche-hound) later named Butch. This poor dog had been abused something shocking, it took alot of mental work to get that dog back to normality. He became the pride & joy of the family, until sadly Butch finally had to be put down last year due to old age. (Rest in peace old Friend).

I am 100% agreement with my dads statement. No bad dogs, Just bad owners.

Sorry, I forgot to add, My dad also Judged dogs up here in QLD for a number of years before retiring.

[My poor XF]

Originally Posted by Conundrum

I am 100% agreement with my dads statement. No bad dogs, Just bad owners.

Sums it up perfectly!

[Tuddy200]

Originally Posted by BFZF8

Don't get upset, mate I'm not judging you. I read the part where you said they were on leashes. But did they start the fight? No. Did they end it? Yes. Did you get blamed for it? Yes. You were lucky that the copper was there to see what happened.

And just because the grass is greener doesn't mean the place isn't crawling with disease. Do you reckon everybody's dog is up to date on shots? Your dogs can still get stuff like parvo even if they've been immunized.

Interesting! So with your line of thinking, if I came up to you and started pushing and shoving you, then gave you a punch to the jaw, your going to take it or 'defend' yourself? Should we then remove you from society because you 'will' end it?

Not taking dogs to a dog park on health reasons? How is that any different to any other part of the city/town/world people walk and play with thier dogs?

[vanman_75]

Half this country can't keep a knife out of their kids pockets , how are these people capable of owning a dog , I agree with the above punish the owner like they did it .
My mastif x boxer is big and dopey and will lick you stupid even if you go in her yard which is 7 foot high and concrete under . Her bark will make you think twice though .and for the life of me can't understand why anyone walks their dog without a leash , because as said if my dog finished it purely cause she is bigger and stronger then its your fault not mine , she has zero aggression unless attacked , just like its owner .

[vanman_75]

Double post