Yes, another speed camera thread, with a twist...

coolozzieguy · 12-10-2010, 08:46 AM

Hello all, (love the new banner BTW!)

Long time lurker, first time poster, sorry for the long post so please be gentle

I am not normally a 'keyboard warrior' but need some assistance on an issue from those who may have more knowledge on Mobile Speed Cameras than myself.
Yesterday afternoon my brother notified me of a mobile speed camera around the corner from my parents house in a residential 50kmp/h zone, that appeared to be placed in a laughable position to cause issue (on a downhill section of rd.)

Anyway, picture this scenario:

Upon driving past and clearing the speed camera on the down hill side (at approx. 40-45kmp\h) I returned to the rear of the car and parked (legally) well behind it (50m or so, maybe more as to not obscure the view of the car) and exited the vehicle, in order to take a photo to show a friend. As I started the walk to the rear of the car to take the rear view pic (link below) the camera operator came out of the car and started abusing me saying I was parked wrongly and 'disrupting the flow of traffic,' and that I need to 'get back in my car or there will be trouble.' I informed him that I was not 'disrupting the flow of traffic' in any way, said nothing more (whilst still copping much heated rhetoric from the operator,) took my one photo, and got back into my car. I put my phone away, belted up and drove off in the up hill direction towards the camera car. I checked my speed, which I deliberately kept steady between 40-45Kmp/h, and upon driving past, looked in my rear-view mirror and saw the death-flash!! (the flash is on the ground on a bag\small box in front of the car) quickly double checked my speed again, and was doing the same (SO I KNOW I AM INNOCENT.) There were no other cars on either side or anywhere in the vicinity (this is not a busy road.) To say I was shocked is an understatement!
Downhill Link

After calming down a little, I parked in a court nearby, and walked back to the up hill side of the car, and took the down hill looking shot (also below) and observed the situation for a few minutes. Some cars went past on the up hill, and many of them at a much slower speed than me, and they did not get flashed. Conversely, many people got flashed on the down hill who appeared to be going much faster than the posted speed limit of 50kmp/h.
Uphill Link

I have checked my speedo in the last week or so using two different GPS's and as usual, my speedo is between 3-5kmp/h higher than my actual speed, so at most I was doing somewhere between 37-42kmp/h, and know my speedo is somewhat accurate.

So the questions for those more knowledgeable than myself who may be able to help:

1) Are mobile camera operators able to (as I suspect) trigger 'flash only' in a manual or a 'flash test' scenario? (just to mess with me on this occasion)

2) What is the current law or 'guideline' on mobile cameras on hills? I ask this because all the mobile speed cameras I have passed on hills are usually facing the down hill direction, and the fronts of the cars are on blocks\ramps to make the car more level (the road is much steeper and longer than the picture depicts.) I am south of the border (down Mexico way) and we have had mobile cameras for the last 15-20 years and the 'guidelines' seem to change slightly from time to time.

3) If I have been flashed for real (keeping in mind I was doing less than the speed limit if the camera is wrongly calibrated\positioned) and I do get an 'alleged infringement notice' in the mail, how long does it roughly take to arrive so I can challenge it?

Some facts: I am 27 in March, had my licence two days after I turned 18 (so 8-9ish years) and have a perfect driving record with no accidents, traffic infringements, or parking fines.

I also never approached the car or the camera operator, made threatening gestures, language, etc. even though the operator seemed to, and was never closer than the pics define.

And not to sound too harsh to the naysayers in my first post, but as I know my speedo's reading and know I am innocent, I don't believe I should 'man up' and 'just pay the fine.'

This post is not intended as a debate on the benfits or not of speed cameras, and I am not asking how to get out of the fine (I know I am innocent and wasn't speeding) just asking for some advice.

Anyway, off to work now, so apologies if I don't reply straight away, and apologies again for the long post, and the quality of the pics are low as I forgot to crank the quality up from 1Mp for sending some MMS's during the week.

rancidpunx · 12-10-2010, 09:04 AM

I believe I read somewhere that every 10 cars or so get a flash, cant remember the reasoning though, sorry.

Im my old ute I got flashed from a van parked in some trees. I didnt get a fine and rightly so as I know i was not speeding.

Jason[98.EL] · 12-10-2010, 09:11 AM

I would say it has something to do with the fact you took a photo of the camera car

charles_wif_xf · 12-10-2010, 09:42 AM

What is concerning to me is that the camera operator is able to trigger the flash and/or camera of his own accord! The fact that the OP took a photo of the camera car is irrelevant. The camera car is parked on public land (illegally mind you) and as such, can be photographed.

sleek7 · 12-10-2010, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason[98.EL]

I would say it has something to do with the fact you took a photo of the camera car

More than likely, but will he get an infringement?
If youve annoyed the blokes it wouldnt surprise me if they could have just set off the flash to make you worry.

Longest first post ive seen btw

MAGPIE · 12-10-2010, 09:50 AM

I wouldn't worry about it until you get something in the post, he was probably just messing with ya.

Keep a note of dates & times and the photo's you took just in case.

You could always lay a complaint regarding his attitude and explain the situation just to get a head start.

TZENU · 12-10-2010, 09:59 AM

Messing with you.....

Similar scenario when I was a youngun... I tooted at a camera and he flashed me... I stopped and after about 30min he admitted that I wasn't going to get a ticket! Even showed me how the setup worked....

zdcol71 · 12-10-2010, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charles_wif_xf

What is concerning to me is that the camera operator is able to trigger the flash and/or camera of his own accord! The fact that the OP took a photo of the camera car is irrelevant. The camera car is parked on public land (illegally mind you) and as such, can be photographed.

I don't know the law surrounding this incident,or the ins and outs of where these operators can or can't park, or wether you can or can't legally take a photo of law enforcers in the course of doing their job, so will not comment, other than to say I have read here from others how the camera flash can be operated manually, and often is, for calibration etc.
I would be inclined to think the operator may be just jerking your chain.

charles_wif_xf · 12-10-2010, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zdcol71

I don't know the law surrounding this incident,or the ins and outs of where these operators can or can't park, or wether you can or can't legally take a photo of law enforcers in the course of doing their job, so will not comment, other than to say I have read here from others how the camera flash can be operated manually, and often is, for calibration etc.
I would be inclined to think the operator may be just jerking your chain.

A camera operator is not a law enforcement officer, he is an employee of a contractor.

MexicanBatman · 12-10-2010, 10:09 AM

Nice road for a powerskid, should have removed the plates and....

Yeah these people if you could call them that can manually trigger the flash and camera... I got flashed once traveling towards a camera @3am on my bike, far ken nearly crashed it, did a lap of the block as I was going to show him what he could do with his flash, then lost interest decided to just buzz the tower instead......

zdcol71 · 12-10-2010, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charles_wif_xf

A camera operator is not a law enforcement officer, he is an employee of a contractor.

My bad; like I said, I don't know the law, but I think you know what I was getting at.

351EL · 12-10-2010, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charles_wif_xf

A camera operator is not a law enforcement officer, he is an employee of a contractor.

In Queensland they are still police officers for now.
They can also photograph the front of cars so if they see you not wearing a seatbelt or using a mobile phone they can manually operate the camera.

charles_wif_xf · 12-10-2010, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zdcol71

My bad; like I said, I don't know the law, but I think you know what I was getting at.

That I do zd.

charles_wif_xf · 12-10-2010, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 351EL

In Queensland they are still police officers for now.
They can also photograph the front of cars so if they see you not wearing a seatbelt or using a mobile phone they can manually operate the camera.

In Victoria, the camera cars are manned by the contractors' employees. Police officers still wield the LiDAR guns though.

last fairlane · 12-10-2010, 10:59 AM

a couple of years back I was driving the truck and dog
and was told on the CB about a speed camera
so I cruised past at 70 in an 80 zone and was flashed
so I turned around and went back and knocked on the door
of the camera van and asked whats going on
he told me he does a calibration shot every tenth pic
so all was good
and yes they are still cops in QLD running the mobiles
thanks John

XR6_661 · 12-10-2010, 12:45 PM

Hahaha seems old mate was just having a play with ya.

Either way, shouldn’t matter where the flash for cash is...Don’t speed...and don’t do things that’ll peeve the pork off!

I got flashed once doing about 75 in a 60 zone...never got a fine hmmm

.bazz. · 12-10-2010, 12:47 PM

i would of park my car out of view of the operator

and walk down the footpath to take your photo.

mik · 12-10-2010, 01:07 PM

wether you think they deserve it or not, these blokes probably cop more than a bit of abuse, and i would think they would take a snap of a potential troublemaker just in case something happens down the track and put a note on it.

grandpa_spec_F6 · 12-10-2010, 01:41 PM

I have actually had this happen to me, was going 47 in a 60 zone because I could see them clearly, next thing you know I get a flash.

Now I am a calm cheerful person most of the time but this just made my blood boil.

I think I scared the poor cop half to death because I went up from the blind side and knocked very loudly on the window of the van.

The conversation went something like this:

Me: "What was that?! I know I was going below the speed limit and you still flashed me"
Cop: "Yeah you were actually doing 47, you were my unlucky calibration test subject"

He then went on to explain (very calmly and professionally might I add) that every hour or so they need to recalibrate the thing to ensure accuracy etc.

Not sure if it was all bollocks or not, as with many things like speed cameras, the hoon list etc, I think it's a case of 'what happens in the force, stays in the force' .

irlewy86 · 12-10-2010, 02:06 PM

1) The operator can set off the flash without issuing a fine. Probably just wanted to give you a scare.

2) In Qld the camera's are mounted on jigs inside the car to ensure they are level with the road.

3) I've noticed 2 speed camera's illegally parked, And those camera's were manned by highly trained serving members of the QPS. So yeah they can get their set up wrong from time to time.

Scott · 12-10-2010, 02:09 PM

He's messing with you.

A few years ago I was trundling along in one of my cars that happened to have driving lights on it that lit up like the Southern Aurora. As I drove along a dark stretch of road I saw a van parked on the side so I hit the lights and just about nailed the poor bugger to the back wall of his van.

He flipped me the bird and then flashed me as I passed. I never got a ticket, never thought I would get a ticket and as far as I'm concerned, there was never a reason to get a ticket.

The main thing to note in this story is that I got a bloody good laugh out of it.

XWGT · 12-10-2010, 03:10 PM

Without exception I roll down the window and give them the one fingered salute. Cant stand the useless peices of *****

On a recent occassion I was flashing my lights to fellow motorists to warn of a spped camera who had reversed himself in behind a gaurd rail to hide his car completely (except for those in 4wd who could see his roof) and in a line of cars waiting to turn facing me was a police car. He started flashing his lights at me, to which I politely flashed back and we had a good old conversation via morse code. He seemed peeved that I had so much to say but as I pointed out as I went by with the window down its a free world except the small parts controlled by the Vic government, to which he had no reply.

CFOUR · 12-10-2010, 03:33 PM

I've been flashed many times with out receiving a ticket. Most notably when I wound down the passenger window and gave a one finger salute (without protruding the vehicle). you have nothing to worry about its just the operator being a smarty pants. Also every plate that is recorded is checked for rego and licensing of the vehicle owner.

Den76 · 12-10-2010, 03:40 PM

From what i understand all camera operators in Vic are public servants under contract from Victoria Police, Dept of Justice and State Gov.
Having spoken with a few camera operators Yes they can set manually overide the camera equipment to take a photo of you this image comes up with a information data block stating "TEST" none of these "TEST" images get processed as an infringment.

The op more than likely was just stirring you up or taking a test photo of you just incase you decide to come back without your car being visable.
Also every hour they are under contract to take a test photo this is for calibration and site evaluation process.

These camera car operators do cop a fair amount of abuse everyday day in day out and at times just want to be left alone to do there job and go home to there families, although most people think that this is not a job they are getting paid for doing what normal police would be doing so there effectively freeing up police time for other incidents

Camera Cars are allowed to be parked on nature strips under section 197 1C of Victorian Road Rules 2009.

Bobman · 12-10-2010, 03:51 PM

I've been flashed and seen others flashed who were well below the posted limit.

A few cases in point. These scum threaten all sorts of action if you park in front of them. However, many kudos to those that do park in front!

They enjoy parking on nature strips and in one case were approached by a news crew after a resident complained that a speed camera car was always parked in front of his house on the nature strip. The camera operator refused to talk to the news crew and a short time later drove away to a nearby location to steal from motorists again. As posted above, the exemption "handily" came in and was passed without fuss by the state government. Any law passed for method of thieving is not a true law.

To anyone who thinks that they have a tough life, please cry me a river. These folks choose to gain employment by means of stealing. Cameras don't and will never save lives & should never be trusted. They do not take the role of the police either, as there are less police resources today than there were when the cameras were introduced in the late 1980s.

tweeked · 12-10-2010, 04:09 PM

I love Victoria. That looks like it is placed right in a deadly blackspot.

coolozzieguy · 12-10-2010, 07:23 PM

Hi All,

Thanks to all that have posted replies. Had a chat to my boss about this today, as in a previous life he was a cop and then detective in the QLD Police, and concurred that there may in fact be different 'test' procedures for testing the radar and\or camera in this type of setup. As mentioned, I did have a suspicion that this may have been the case, but my knowledge on mobile cameras is much less than fixed cameras.

Funny to hear the stories from the other members as well. Thanks all! You have helped dampen the rage till next time an 'enthusiast' like us appears to be wronged

Bobman · 12-10-2010, 07:38 PM

ACA just ran a story about cameras tonight.

One truck driver received 2 fines at the same time by the same camera. Trouble is one said 60km/h in a 40km/h zone and the other one said 50km/h. Right, lol.

I wouldn't be too stressed about being flashed, coolozzieguy. Just never trust the cameras or the people behind them. Always keep an eye out for the cars (that also have illegal tint) and keep up the great work with taking photos. I know a few guys who do the same over at Road Watch.

NAFairlane · 12-10-2010, 07:44 PM

i'd like to point out that this happens on some of the fixed cameras aswell. i have been through a fixed one on some lights at approx 11pm at 80 in a 60 zone on my way to work never recieved a fine, never heard from the rozza's or anything.

GTP owner · 12-10-2010, 08:13 PM

I have had it occur on a number of occasions. They don't like it when you sneak up behind them at night (dark, no traffic, very slowly), then blatt your horn when you get to their van...hahaha. Scares the tripe out of them. I also like to park right in front of them in a legal spot. I have been threatened with obstructing police business, to which I happily replied "game on". Bullying by police looks really good on ACA. The final low act is when they are hidden in a bush on a regular basis is to drag a stinking huge dead wallaby next to their parking spot. They don't hang around long after that.