Diesel.... would you buy one? - Page 2

zetec · 06-09-2005, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teki04

Mondeo = Focus sedan IMO.... I dont think ford would have a market for a mondeo. Look at Mazda, the 3 is like the focus, and the 6 is their mid-sizer, however Ford have the Falcon. $40000 mondeo or a Falcon? Pretty sure Australians wouldnt buy a mondeo.....

Why not Kiwis do, more so than Accord Euro and Mazda 6.

lincoln · 07-09-2005, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by back2thefutura

I agree with you actually, its not just the Ford dealers inability to do it though - it also comes down to market perception.

To be honest my perception of a diesel powered car is a truck or something similar - i dont think i would buy a diesel powered Focus etc unless i was convinced that they were a quantum leap over your regular versions. I know the evidence is there etc but what Im saying is that your average punter is most likely going to think like that, and therefore not be interested in it.

VW can't sell enough diesel Golfs. There's up to a 6 month waiting list on them depending on spec. It's the number 1 selling Citroen C5. The Peugeot 307s sell a lot of diesels, as well as 406 and 407. There is a market for them, but it is a niche market which Ford AU has failed to sell to time and time again.

Mondeo is a prime example of a complete and utter debacle. I'm still waiting for a concerted effort in selling the Focus and Fiesta in the volumes it deserves. What's holding them back? Brand perception? The dealers? C. All of the above? It's not the car, it's the selling of the car. The cars in the Ford stable have been brilliant for ages.

marcosambrose · 08-09-2005, 01:57 AM

Ford claims a top speed of 206 km/h for the 2-litre petrol, 203 km/h for the diesel. The 0-100 km/h sprint comes up in 9.2 seconds in the petrol car, 9.3 seconds in the diesel....

On the economy front the diesel averages 5.6 litres/100 km, and the 2-litre petrol 7.1 litres/100 km...

Id go diesel for sure.

Teki04 · 08-09-2005, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lincoln

Mondeo is a prime example of a complete and utter debacle. I'm still waiting for a concerted effort in selling the Focus and Fiesta in the volumes it deserves. What's holding them back? Brand perception? The dealers? C. All of the above? It's not the car, it's the selling of the car. The cars in the Ford stable have been brilliant for ages.

Agreed. Fiesta only had 200something last month.... something is up there when Suzuki (brand perception MUST be lower then Ford, right?) had way more sales!

marcosambrose · 08-09-2005, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teki04

Agreed. Fiesta only had 200something last month.... something is up there when Suzuki (brand perception MUST be lower then Ford, right?) had way more sales!

Its the way Ford is advertising the car, seeing it on TV doesnt always make you want to go out and check it at the dealer.

I say Ford put some cars out at sporting events, more newspaper ads, more variety of ads, e.g. show the Fiesta driving around in sydney, not some place in europe.

Fiesta/Focus/Mondeo are some of the best cars for that money you can buy anywhere, many magazines have said the Focus is the best hatch to drive in the world, many magazines have said the mondeo is a more exciting and involving drive than a 3-series.

Why aernt these Fords selling well here? its a Ford Oz problem, the Marketing department needs to lift thier game.

Focus is one of the best sellers in America at the moment, it looks like a P.O.S over there but it still sells! they must be doing something right.

melbzetec · 08-09-2005, 03:10 PM

You'll find it is mostly to do with Ford's brand perception, and the fact that Ford hasn't had a great reputation in small cars for some time. Just because you finally deliver a great product doesn't mean everybody will immediately rush out to buy it. And small car buyers, particularly woman, have had little reason to look at a Ford for many years.

And what interests most people on this forum...performance, dynamics, roadholding etc.....is not what interests the majority of the buying public. (Hard to believe I know)

Therefore most of the suggestions made on this forum regarding what Ford should do to create "great ads" is usually way off the mark.

Teki04 · 08-09-2005, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by melbzetec

You'll find it is mostly to do with Ford's brand perception, and the fact that Ford hasn't had a great reputation in small cars for some time. Just because you finally deliver a great product doesn't mean everybody will immediately rush out to buy it. And small car buyers, particularly woman, have had little reason to look at a Ford for many years.

And what interests most people on this forum...performance, dynamics, roadholding etc.....is not what interests the majority of the buying public. (Hard to believe I know)

Therefore most of the suggestions made on this forum regarding what Ford should do to create "great ads" is usually way off the mark.

True..... but as mentioned above with the Fiesta.... well, i wouldnt call Suzuki a great brand, bringing out the Jimny and the Ignis... both such great cars :sm_headba .... and then they release a new small hatch (Swift) and its going wonders again......

:

So, i think its got something to do with Ford's Marketing..... IMO those ads on the Fiesta with the german engineers was completely ridiculous. And with the new Focus ad, i was thinking today that it SHOULD have been "SHARP" rather then "SMOOTH". Sure the body is less sharp then the other model, but its still rather angular. And im sure the handling is VERY sharp. IMO Ford Aust got the Marketing wrong....

Oh well, at least everyone hear know that Ford is onto something good!

melbzetec · 08-09-2005, 09:25 PM

You mean "sharp" as in "For a sharper drive" like the original Focus launch ads????????

Don't go there sunshine!!!

jonbays · 08-09-2005, 09:31 PM

diesels are fine i drove a diesel pug ute around europe and it was great in their driving conditions which were putting around cities in traffic and cruising on freeways.

In Austrlia like USA the driving style is totally different its putting down the freeway at 110k and traffic light racing through the suburbs. here a diesel would not be fun.

I could see myself in one but it doesn't excite me.

lincoln · 08-09-2005, 11:31 PM

I'm driving around in my folk's Citroen C5 diesel at the moment (am in Brisbane now) and just love it. What a fun car to drive. The engine is so cool!

As for marketing... yep Ford just aren't doing enough. I agree that brand perception is very poor when it comes to Fords. People scoff at the idea of a small Ford (festiva and laser comments are often thrown inmy face). This has to change and a couple of cheeky ads that get boring FAST won't cut it Ford.

The products are exceptional, start supporting them for crying out loud!!

whippet_zetec · 09-09-2005, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teki04

and then they release a new small hatch (Swift) and its going wonders again......

:

I think you will find that alot of people will have fond memories of the Swit from the 90's that was very popular amongst the "hot hatch - GTI" and "chicks".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teki04

So, i think its got something to do with Ford's Marketing..... IMO those ads on the Fiesta with the german engineers was completely ridiculous. And with the new Focus ad, i was thinking today that it SHOULD have been "SHARP" rather then "SMOOTH".

Sharp was the slogan for the LR Foci.....

zetec · 09-09-2005, 12:23 PM

Teki when you drive a Mk II Focus, smooth couldn't fit the car more perfectly if they tried. It's the first thing that comes to mind, even over bumps it's smooth as. This is not me with my Ford hat on either, I've done over 6,000km in various Mk II Focis and it it brilliantly smooth, the suspension is brilliant.

Teki04 · 09-09-2005, 09:14 PM

OK, maybe we should go with Smooth....

Yes, i get very annoyed when ppl right down "Blue Festiva"... ITS A FIESTA YOU IDIOT! But yea, ford needs to get its brand image back. Maybe the Fiesta ST and Focus ST would have been a good idea..........

lincoln · 09-09-2005, 10:32 PM

My thoughts are that the import division of Ford Australia should be run as a completely seperate business to the local production division. How profitable is the import division? I think Ford Australia take their eye off the non-local market way too easily.

melbzetec · 09-09-2005, 11:14 PM

I would suggest the import division probably loses money. And dealers make bugger all on small cars.

It's the local manufacture that makes the money. And thank God for the Territory, which at least means it is no longer the Falcon Car Company

Teki04 · 09-09-2005, 11:17 PM

I think Ford is just is not ambitious. It certainly has a better product then the echo and corolla..... so why cant it sell as many? Poor marketing, and those that do go with the marketing, are slammed with supply problems

whippet_zetec · 09-09-2005, 11:35 PM

teki...its hard to shake off a bad rap mate and that's what Ford small cars have got over the last decade....

I am sure if quality cars persist then give it a little while and people will recognise this and then sales should start to build momentum

lincoln · 10-09-2005, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by melbzetec

I would suggest the import division probably loses money. And dealers make bugger all on small cars.

It's the local manufacture that makes the money. And thank God for the Territory, which at least means it is no longer the Falcon Car Company

Yes and every time the local Falcon or Territory require marketing budgets they get them, often to the detriment of the other models. Ford needs to get serious with the rest of the market they're competing in. Toyota can sell locally made cars and the rest quite well indeed. Quite frankly, they're smashing the opposition. Holden as well. Holden has had just as many crap small cars as Ford in the last decade or more, yet look how well it's doing! (ignoring the fact that they're about to go back to having crap small cars again).

To me, Ford Australia, is still the Falcon and now Territory company. Just because they have two models, doesn't mean the problem still isn't there.

Teki04 · 10-09-2005, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whippet_zetec

teki...its hard to shake off a bad rap mate and that's what Ford small cars have got over the last decade....

I am sure if quality cars persist then give it a little while and people will recognise this and then sales should start to build momentum

Yea... lets just hope they stick with European cars for a while and dont go back to Korean cars.... Just as Holden are about to make a mistake doing....

Anyways, back on topic....

I think Diesel is the way to go... but does anyone know if it costs more to service a diesel? What are their service intervals like?

Mick K. · 10-09-2005, 04:23 PM

I know current VW diesels have a 15K/1 year service interval, but most people say (as with petrol cars) that it is probably good for the car to change oil every 6 months / 7500. The total servicing costs for servicing 2.0 petrol and 2.0 diesel Golfs up to 4 years are within $100 total - so pretty much the same.

MK

whippet_zetec · 11-09-2005, 02:22 AM

yeah I have heard diesel servicing costs can be more......suppose you could do a market check and call up a Pug Dealer and as them....

The Mighty Red · 11-09-2005, 05:58 AM

I would never ever ever, ever buy a small diesel hatchback........I am not a fan of smaller cars at the best of times.

I seem to recall a certain holden Gemini selling a deisel back in the early 80s but i dont think they sold to many...........

whippet_zetec · 11-09-2005, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L.F.C

I seem to recall a certain holden Gemini selling a deisel back in the early 80s but i dont think they sold to many...........

I dare say that technology would have changed quite a bit in 25 years

Teki04 · 14-09-2005, 11:47 PM

http://carsguide.news.com.au/news/st...E21822,00.html

Wow, 40% of Golf sales are Diesel.......

marcosambrose · 15-09-2005, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teki04

http://carsguide.news.com.au/news/st...E21822,00.html

Wow, 40% of Golf sales are Diesel.......

My friend drove one about 2 months ago he said it had as much urge as a 6-cyl, maybe a little over-exaggeration but 320NM or tourqe of whatever it has in that small hatch is huge. it would pull itself up Mt Everest if it tried, he said the car did everything so easily...

so VW have gearboxs and diesel engines down packed, i wish Ford and VW did a trade, fords petrol engines for VW diesels and gearboxs...

Cypher · 15-09-2005, 02:26 PM

I think some of these comments hit the nail on the head in regards to diesel. People remember the past and still think a modern diesel is like one from the 1980s or the same as a toyota dyna. But the modern diesel is a lot better than a petrol equivalent in many respects.

Having spent 5,000km driving a direct injection mitsu 1.9L TD in Germany last year, all I can say that it is more than a match for most petrol cars in the same class. Also, the power delivery was wonderful and the economy fantastic (around 6.2L/100 at an average speed of 160km/h). Also spent some time in a NA Skoda diesel and it returned 4.1L/100 at about 120km/h. A bit slow but it is suited to conditions in europe.

lincoln · 16-09-2005, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcosambrose

My friend drove one about 2 months ago he said it had as much urge as a 6-cyl, maybe a little over-exaggeration but 320NM or tourqe of whatever it has in that small hatch is huge. it would pull itself up Mt Everest if it tried, he said the car did everything so easily...

so VW have gearboxs and diesel engines down packed, i wish Ford and VW did a trade, fords petrol engines for VW diesels and gearboxs...

Why? Ford are using some of the most advanced diesel engines in the market. Having partnered with PSA (Peugeot/Citroen) in the last few years. There's very little difference between a VW and a PSA diesel engine, both are fantastic.