OT: Holden's new small car strategy

Mick K. · 30-05-2005, 10:07 PM

Holden is to replace the Barina (currently a European rebadged Opel Corsa) with a rebadged Daewoo Kalos, and also bring in another small-medium rebadged Daewoo to replace the Astra Classic - whose production is being wound up in Poland.

Also talk that their Territory fighter is going to be a rebadged Daewoo.

Read more here: carsguide.com.au

Do they really think Australian buyers are that stupid?

Let's hope Ford sticks with the European designed route for Focus and Fiesta.

MK

MITCHAY · 30-05-2005, 10:11 PM

Holden cant make a small car to save their lives. Which is why ive got a TX5. barina or camira VS TX5 or TX3. Not a hard decision to make. Some people will be stupid.

b2tf · 30-05-2005, 10:21 PM

yikes. And i thought the current Barina was bad

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Teki04 · 30-05-2005, 10:59 PM

In all honesty, my friend has a New barina...and i looked at the SRi.... they arent that bad cars seriously. SRi is a little hot hatch, and the cheaper models in manual are pretty zippy for a 1.4L, and come with good pricing....

Teki04 · 30-05-2005, 11:00 PM

Oh, but of course, the fiesta is much better if you can pay the extra $$$... but the SRi is heaps nicer and better then fiesta zetec, but also costs $22500 FOR A BARINA?!?! If i had one i would say i drove a "holden sri" lol

Mick K. · 31-05-2005, 08:48 PM

I was looking for a Barina SRi when I stumbled upon the Focus Zetec that I ended up buying. I find it difficult to pay a lot more for a posh/sporty variation of a cheap car. When I hear Barina, I think "14990 drive away" - and $23K or so is a lot more than that. Got my (used) Aug 2003 Zetec for 17K in the end so was happy with that

Seeing some TV ads recently, Ford are certainly pushing the German origins of the Fiesta - something they will no doubt continue to do when the competition is coming in on the same ships as Kias and Hyundais.

MK

zetec · 01-06-2005, 01:16 PM

Hopefully Holden keep doing what they're doing, pulling out of Euro vehicles, cutting costs into cheap Korean vehicles, they'll very soon lose a lot of credibility on Barina, Astra Classic, it seems like a case of dipping all their fingers into every pie and having no fingers left. I sincerely hope that they think that the average Aussie buyer won't notice, because they probably will...

Case example 1 - Build a vehicle to match competitor product, pitch it at red-blooded Holden fans and give it a catchy flashy image. Guaranteed Sales right? Result - Still just a Commodore Wagon with Plastic bits taped on... LOVE that Adventra.

Case study 2. Ditch the Aussie built one altogether, import a Korean built example, badge it as a Holden, right after they abandoned Daewoo publicly in Australia. Now that is an even smarter idea. Abandon Aussie vehicle for an even lower quality vehicle... gotta love their overconfidence!!!

lincoln · 01-06-2005, 07:56 PM

What a shame, as the new Opel Corsa looks to be quite a hot little thing. They'll be making a 138bhp veresion to go toe to toe against Fiesta ST and Pug 206 GTI. They'll also have an SRI turbo putting out 168hp, taking it to the RenaultSport Clio.

Shame we won't be getting them in Oz, if that story is accurate.

murcod · 01-06-2005, 10:59 PM

Dont under estimate Korean cars- they've come a long way. If Holden spends some time developing a decent handling suspension set up and can under cut Ford by a decent margin...... who knows what could happen??

The Astra's aren't that good. A relation has got an SRi that put a piston and conrod through the block at 22000km; supposedly it's not that unsual for them to do that?! Also have heard a couple of people have electric windows fail multiple times at around $600 a pop IIRC.

My wife bought a new Excel about a month before I met her. It's now 9 yo and still going strong. All that it's had go wrong is a noisy water pump ($45 plus fitting) and the wiring loom broke to the knock sensor. Not bad for 105000km. It has spent it's entire life in the city and doesn't use any oil. If it just handled a bit better....

WASACL · 02-06-2005, 08:09 PM

Not to sound like a Barina Backer or anything but i remember i was bored one day and thought it would be good to compare the Fiesta Zetec to the Barina SRi...

The SRi handles aswell as the Fiesta i found and is alot quicker off the mark and mid to high aswell... Both great cars... But then hey i want to sell my focus to buy a ST150 once it comes out...

I think that a mod'd one of those with a 75lb of NOS sitting in the boot would be a nice surprise to that P plater 200sx that keeps pwning me at the lights on Canterbury Rd! She likes playing with me... :(

Russ

marcosambrose · 03-06-2005, 12:51 AM

Holden are pathetic when it comes to small cars, they just use cruddy korean built cars or crappy opel corsas and rebadge them as thier own.

murcod · 03-06-2005, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcosambrose

Holden are pathetic when it comes to small cars, they just use cruddy korean built cars or crappy opel corsas and rebadge them as thier own.

Holden is owned by GM (General Motors); who also own Opel..... So it's no different to Ford Aust importing cars from Ford Europe!? GM also own Daewoo; so I guess that's similar to the new Focus coming from South Africa?

(whether Holden small cars are crappy or not is an entirely different matter!!! LOL)

saba · 03-06-2005, 09:51 PM

Its not really Holden's idea. Its GM's. GM has this thing about rebadging its various models eg the Saab 9-2X is a rebadged Subaru Imprezza, so is the Saab 9-7X - a yankee SUV. Holden's Monaro - a Pontiac GTO. In the end it just dilutes the product range and the same poor quality spreads across the globe. I own a Saab, the last model to be built in Sweden, The new ones will be built in Germany by Opel, while the Saab assembly line in Sweden will be re-tooled to build Cadillacs. They've lost the plot!

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zetec · 04-06-2005, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mondeost24

Holden is owned by GM (General Motors); who also own Opel..... So it's no different to Ford Aust importing cars from Ford Europe!? GM also own Daewoo; so I guess that's similar to the new Focus coming from South Africa?

(whether Holden small cars are crappy or not is an entirely different matter!!! LOL)

Hardly.

Ford is Ford globally. Same design strategies, same access to parts and buying power, input into engineering and everything. Building the Focus in South Africa would be like building the Barina in South Africa if we want to get technical. If Ford were to do an equivalent, they'd dump the Fiesta, rebadge Hyundai Getz.

: No Thanks.

Holden are deliberately dumping a premium priced safer, better built vehicle which has already won them a Wheels Car of the Year award, for something cheaper, simpler (and not an engineer in the world could argue safer, better built or classier - it's Korean. Not one company can go from building Daewoos to something even approaching a Euro hatch. Not even a Fiat...). All in the name of profit. Sure they're a business that needs to be competitive, but it just reeks of less choice for them in the end...

And more sales for Fiesta.

So I support 2 vehicles form Holden FULLY.

The Adventra

And the new Korean Built beep beep breakdown Barina

murcod · 04-06-2005, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zetec

Hardly.

Ford is Ford globally. Same design strategies, same access to parts and buying power, input into engineering and everything. Building the Focus in South Africa would be like building the Barina in South Africa if we want to get technical. If Ford were to do an equivalent, they'd dump the Fiesta, rebadge Hyundai Getz.

: No Thanks.

Holden are deliberately dumping a premium priced safer, better built vehicle which has already won them a Wheels Car of the Year award, for something cheaper, simpler (and not an engineer in the world could argue safer, better built or classier - it's Korean. Not one company can go from building Daewoos to something even approaching a Euro hatch. Not even a Fiat...). All in the name of profit. Sure they're a business that needs to be competitive, but it just reeks of less choice for them in the end...

And more sales for Fiesta.

So I support 2 vehicles form Holden FULLY.

The Adventra

And the new Korean Built beep beep breakdown Barina

That's right - you work for Ford! :1syellow1

Holden's full name- General Motors Holden ; Daewoo - General Motors Daewoo. All owned by the same US based company- same as all the Ford branches all over the globe. PS: Last time I checked Ford didn't own Hyundai either! ;)

The Jag X Type runs a Mondeo floor pan and variations on Ford's Duratec V6. Why, because Ford own Jaguar. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples too, eg. talk of the new Focus using a Volvo engine.

I always find the people who have never owned a Korean built car are always the quickest to condemn them.... Most buyers in the small car category aren't concerned about their new purchase being the best handling vehicle- price is the biggest factor (value for money etc.) BTW the people on this forum of course are an exception.

The Euro Barina has certainly had it's problems since first introduced. The GSi's were infamous for the top end of the engine falling apart, I've also heard of clutches failing at low kms on lower models. European sourced cars certainly aren't the best as some would believe (I should know as I've owned a couple!) If Holden put some effort into the suspension/ handling of the newly sourced Daewoo and supervise quality control they could easily have a winner.

zetec · 04-06-2005, 05:25 PM

Just to let you know too, Ford did the whole Korean thing with the Festiva, it was a rebadged Kia. Fantastic little car, I owned one as my first car for 3 years, a good no frills cheap car that did the job, hardly a rocket and not exactly a paragon of safety but it suited my needs. I'm simply saying that for Ford to now take a step away from the Euro and go BACK to Korean, it would seem like a slap in the face ala Holden.

Teki04 · 04-06-2005, 05:51 PM

Ford is onto a good thing with the Euro Hatches....

OZXR4 · 04-06-2005, 06:02 PM

Have you ever driven a daewoo. I have, the old cheese has one and it is a big pile of shit. even comparing it to the hyundai is a bit far off. It is like the people at daewoo have invented a machine that can make matchbox cars lifesize. so all i can say to holden is i hope that this move backfires and the company goes under. they should go back to using suzuki cars as the barina. the swift was a good car. the new one looks very hot.

Teki04 · 04-06-2005, 06:17 PM

I heard that Holden were thinking of bring out a Daewoo to fill in the gap between the Barina and Astra..... and Maybe replace the Astra Classic

murcod · 04-06-2005, 06:28 PM

The original post mentioned they are looking at the Kalos as the model. IIRC it got reasonable reviews compared to their earlier efforts (I know early Daewoos were very below average.) It certainly was a stylish design compared to the Cielo..... GM would have to make sure the vehicles are up to scratch before they sold them locally. It would be silly to think they would just take a Daewoo, wack a couple of Holden badges on it and not do anything else.

The new shape Astra is continuing AFAIK. Personally I would buy a Korean made car over one made in Poland any day!!

murcod · 04-06-2005, 06:34 PM

I guess the Lacetti would be the obvious choice to replace the Astra Classic?

http://www.daewoo.com.au/Common/Pdf/Kalos2004Hatch.pdf

http://www.daewoo.com.au/Common/Pdf/Lacetti.pdf

Pic of Kalos:

Pic of Lacetti:

A review on the Lacetti when Daewoo sold it here : http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_1983/article.html

A review of the Kalos: http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_1811/article.html

MITCHAY · 05-06-2005, 12:03 AM

0-100 in 10 seconds. I might aswell walk. Small cars this day should be aiming for at least 8 seconds.

marcosambrose · 05-06-2005, 10:28 AM

Im well aware of the GM strategy to rebadge cars to fill market gaps in various continents, but the Barina we get here are common crud compared to Fiesta, the Astra is just a big face lift with no new mechanical parts, just updates, you would think with a new golf and focus out they would at least upgrade the engines?

and and for daewoos, ill pass!

murcod · 05-06-2005, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

0-100 in 10 seconds. I might aswell walk. Small cars this day should be aiming for at least 8 seconds.

So what cheap four cylinder Fords are capable of those figures? I don't think even an ST170 got close to that!

Fairlane · 05-06-2005, 11:40 AM

If Ford sticks to their euro hatches, I think their on to a winner. Some Korean cars are good no doubt (new hyundai's), but Daewoo has serious problems, I pretty sure Holden was forced to take over some of Daewoos operations.

I would prefer a Euro car personally. A direct comparison is the Kia Rio & the Fiesta the Rio is the continuation of the old Ford Fiestiva platform & the Fiesta is a German built car.Even with the cheap Rio pricing, I would rather a Fiesta for its quality and resale.

As for holden using a small Korean Daewoo, that might work, but using a Daewoo to compete with Territory is suicide, it will get murdered.

murcod · 05-06-2005, 12:51 PM

Did you read the Autospeed reviews in the links I posted above for the Daewoo Kalos and Lacetti? It might change your opinion of them- the Kalos was rated as being one of the better small hatches and built very well. Now GM has taken over they will only get better.

The Kia Rio is a very old design- comparing it to the Fiesta isn't really fair. Comparing the Kalos to the Fiesta would be more interesting.

I know I was a bit disappointed with the first Fiesta I looked at. It was a 38 degree day and I was checking one over- sat in the driver's seat and went to put the sun visor up..... it immediately fell back down by itself!? Looked to me like the heat had affected it...... Not a good first impression! I haven't driven one, but they sound like they're very good.

BTW in last month's Wheels (or Motor?) a new Territory buyer had written in. Apparently he was handed a list of things that he could expect to go wrong by the dealer when taking delivery!? Also mentiond something about a hole being drilled through a body panel at the factory.... If that's a quality product?! :yeees:

Teki04 · 05-06-2005, 05:30 PM

Ive even seen a nice black Lacetti going around in my area, with top of the range leather and stuff... pretty impressive

marcosambrose · 06-06-2005, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teki04

Ive even seen a nice black Lacetti going around in my area, with top of the range leather and stuff... pretty impressive

lol nice, then again any car can look good in black with a leather interior...
:voldar02:

Teki04 · 06-06-2005, 10:09 PM

True.... have you guys also heard about Holden possibly realising the Cadillac?! SWWWWEEEEEETTTTTTT.... cant wait to see a V series on the road!

Mick K. · 15-06-2005, 05:12 PM

http://goauto.carsales.com.au/mellor...25702000082DCA

GoAuto has a story today about these new Daewoos, sorry I mean Holdenwoos.

MK