Go Back   Australian Ford Forums > General Topics > The Pub

The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-02-2024, 08:06 AM   #1
Polyal
The 'Stihl' Man
Donating Member2
 
Polyal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: TAS
Posts: 27,585
Default Barra Turbo Track Suitability

Ok, I've been around long enough to see some impressive results if you want to drive a barra turbo for around 10 seconds..bang for buck I don't think there is much better.

But what about circuit racing?

Aside from the sound not being great and the falcon being bit over weight I see the b series xr6t as not a bad way to get some power and have generally speaking cheap parts.

I have my eye on one now and was interested to hear from others who have or know anyone that tracks them?

I've been doing some track days with BMW I6s and note their straight line speed but suspect on reliability and the ability to do more than 3 or 4 laps without something get to hot.

Generally speaking I expect to be able to do 10 hard laps minimum.

Im understanding that most cars need a couple of mods to handle track abuse but im not wanting to have to re engineer the entire car.
__________________
  • 2017 Toyota Prado (work hack)
  • 2017 Mitsubishi Pajero Sport
  • 2003 CL7 Honda Accord Euro R (JDM) - K20A 6MT
  • 1999 Lexus IS200 - 1G-FE Turbo 6MT
  • 1973 ZF Ford Fairlane
Polyal is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 02-02-2024, 08:18 AM   #2
Mechan1k
Moderator
Donating Member1
 
Mechan1k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Kenthurst
Posts: 40,403
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Brings a wealth of knowledge to the forums and is frequently giving helpful advice. Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: Always willing to help out with technical information. 
Default Re: Barra Turbo Track Suitability

Kypez ran a B-series but that was an 8 from memory.
There was someone else that ran an FG I6T ... cant remember their username.
Fair bit of work though to make it run well. I'd say cooling is going to be the biggest battle with these though.

Remove as much weight / lightest wheels and get the suspension right as well.
And a stronger manual in it.
Mechan1k is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 02-02-2024, 08:53 AM   #3
Polyal
The 'Stihl' Man
Donating Member2
 
Polyal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: TAS
Posts: 27,585
Default Re: Barra Turbo Track Suitability

Yes, I didn't notice a thread for that build?

Current spec on car is t56, coil overs and ap brakes.

Plan would be strip as much as possible but have it street legal for a little while with end goal track only.

Also then possible to v8 swap it in the future. Which then begs the question do you go straight to boss 5.4 until it gives up.

Im not after a perfect car but one that can be developed over time and is reasonable to start with.

Im just an amateur doing some track days and wanting to do a couple of hill climbs. Will not be looking to do actual season racing...maybe once the kids are through school!
__________________
  • 2017 Toyota Prado (work hack)
  • 2017 Mitsubishi Pajero Sport
  • 2003 CL7 Honda Accord Euro R (JDM) - K20A 6MT
  • 1999 Lexus IS200 - 1G-FE Turbo 6MT
  • 1973 ZF Ford Fairlane
Polyal is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 02-02-2024, 09:49 AM   #4
kypez
Donating Member
Donating Member2
 
kypez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,352
Default Re: Barra Turbo Track Suitability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechan1k View Post
Kypez ran a B-series but that was an 8 from memory.
There was someone else that ran an FG I6T ... cant remember their username.
Fair bit of work though to make it run well. I'd say cooling is going to be the biggest battle with these though.

Remove as much weight / lightest wheels and get the suspension right as well.
And a stronger manual in it.
I did run my Sprint 6 for a while. The transmission was the biggest let down being Auto only. I kept blowing turbo hoses though which was garbage. They haven't changed all that much from B series.

The central weight rather than the V is good for circuit but the engines don't like to rev (but you can drive around that). If you have the budget, forged pistons will reduce piston velocity so you can get them rev a bit better.

I'd run a TR6060 box changing 4 th and 5 th though (I'd make 5 th 1:1 like the TR3160. 6060 can take more torque than the 3160). If you're on a budget, the 3650 works fine and are cheap to replace (BA XR8/GT box). Most tracks don't have a long enough straight to use 6 th. I'd change the 3650 to a 0.8 5 th rather than the much taller 0.6x stock ratio (depending on power, speed requirements).

They're lighter than the V8 too (marginally with all the extra plumbing for turbo/intercoolers). I can't see any reason you'd not want to run it especially in Supersprints. Longer races might need a look at hoses and other components for heat related failures.
__________________
My Ford Family...
2014 GT-F, Manual, Kinetic with Black Stripes
2021 Mustang Mach 1, Manual, Velocity Blue

Last edited by kypez; 02-02-2024 at 10:05 AM.
kypez is online now   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
4 users like this post:
Old 02-02-2024, 02:20 PM   #5
Polyal
The 'Stihl' Man
Donating Member2
 
Polyal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: TAS
Posts: 27,585
Default Re: Barra Turbo Track Suitability

Yeah I gathered all cooling lines would need some attention....not sure if the sump will need some upgrades too.

Current option car comes with the t56 which I would have thought would be strong enough.
__________________
  • 2017 Toyota Prado (work hack)
  • 2017 Mitsubishi Pajero Sport
  • 2003 CL7 Honda Accord Euro R (JDM) - K20A 6MT
  • 1999 Lexus IS200 - 1G-FE Turbo 6MT
  • 1973 ZF Ford Fairlane
Polyal is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 02-02-2024, 02:21 PM   #6
kypez
Donating Member
Donating Member2
 
kypez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,352
Default Re: Barra Turbo Track Suitability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polyal View Post
Yeah I gathered all cooling lines would need some attention....not sure if the sump will need some upgrades too.

Current option car comes with the t56 which I would have thought would be strong enough.
Depends on how much HP you're going to run. T56 is good but two overdrives is kinda useless.

Run 3.73's or 3.9's as well. First will be useless but it should make it drive better as well.
__________________
My Ford Family...
2014 GT-F, Manual, Kinetic with Black Stripes
2021 Mustang Mach 1, Manual, Velocity Blue
kypez is online now   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 02-02-2024, 10:09 PM   #7
Walt Kowalski
I use brain. Not hip.
 
Walt Kowalski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Qld
Posts: 1,402
Default Re: Barra Turbo Track Suitability

I6 is brilliant for drags
Too heavy for circuit

Nelsonian spent years and megabucks on his. Fully developed.

Got to a 1.06 or 7 at WP for one lap from memory

Paul is a good bloke.

PM him.



Now has M2 i think.
Walt Kowalski is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 02-02-2024, 10:15 PM   #8
Mechan1k
Moderator
Donating Member1
 
Mechan1k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Kenthurst
Posts: 40,403
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Brings a wealth of knowledge to the forums and is frequently giving helpful advice. Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: Always willing to help out with technical information. 
Default Re: Barra Turbo Track Suitability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt Kowalski View Post
I6 is brilliant for drags
Too heavy for circuit

Nelsonian spent years and megabucks on his. Fully developed.

Got to a 1.06 or 7 at WP for one lap from memory

Paul is a good bloke.

PM him.



Now has M2 i think.
Nelsonian is the other user I was thinking of ... thank you for that.
Mechan1k is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 02-02-2024, 10:27 PM   #9
Polyal
The 'Stihl' Man
Donating Member2
 
Polyal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: TAS
Posts: 27,585
Default Re: Barra Turbo Track Suitability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt Kowalski View Post
I6 is brilliant for drags
Too heavy for circuit

Nelsonian spent years and megabucks on his. Fully developed.

Got to a 1.06 or 7 at WP for one lap from memory

Paul is a good bloke.

PM him.

Now has M2 i think.
Yeah and I am doing track days with guys in M cars and they push them but ultimately to worried about binning a 100k car.

Im not in the league of buying a 100k track car so talk of m series cars is out of the question. I really want something im not afraid to break.
__________________
  • 2017 Toyota Prado (work hack)
  • 2017 Mitsubishi Pajero Sport
  • 2003 CL7 Honda Accord Euro R (JDM) - K20A 6MT
  • 1999 Lexus IS200 - 1G-FE Turbo 6MT
  • 1973 ZF Ford Fairlane
Polyal is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 02-02-2024, 11:25 PM   #10
kypez
Donating Member
Donating Member2
 
kypez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,352
Default Re: Barra Turbo Track Suitability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polyal View Post
Yeah and I am doing track days with guys in M cars and they push them but ultimately to worried about binning a 100k car.



Im not in the league of buying a 100k track car so talk of m series cars is out of the question. I really want something im not afraid to break.
If it's just track days, then forget everything else...

Take the car, Change the brake fluid and pads. Carry a few spare turbo hoses. Get a set of staggered wheels and invest in some good semi slicks (the Dunlop's work great with the weight of the car). Go nuts. Maybe a race pan if you can find one.

Keep sessions to 15 minutes (20 minutes max depending on circuit; longer straights lets things cool, tighter tracks hurt the car more) and have fun.
__________________
My Ford Family...
2014 GT-F, Manual, Kinetic with Black Stripes
2021 Mustang Mach 1, Manual, Velocity Blue
kypez is online now   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 03-02-2024, 08:43 AM   #11
FERG_51
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,427
Default Re: Barra Turbo Track Suitability

Quote:
Originally Posted by kypez View Post
If it's just track days, then forget everything else...

Take the car, Change the brake fluid and pads. Carry a few spare turbo hoses. Get a set of staggered wheels and invest in some good semi slicks (the Dunlop's work great with the weight of the car). Go nuts. Maybe a race pan if you can find one.

Keep sessions to 15 minutes (20 minutes max depending on circuit; longer straights lets things cool, tighter tracks hurt the car more) and have fun.
Agree, get some big brakes and lighten off the car as much as possible and go out and enjoy.
FERG_51 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 03-02-2024, 09:40 AM   #12
kypez
Donating Member
Donating Member2
 
kypez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,352
Default Re: Barra Turbo Track Suitability

And a set of Shockworks if budget allows. If you're not going to drive it on the road, ask Brett to use a more aggressive spring for track only setup and get him the corner weights of the car and weight of the wheels to get the perfect spring rates.
__________________
My Ford Family...
2014 GT-F, Manual, Kinetic with Black Stripes
2021 Mustang Mach 1, Manual, Velocity Blue
kypez is online now   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 04-02-2024, 04:58 PM   #13
Walt Kowalski
I use brain. Not hip.
 
Walt Kowalski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Qld
Posts: 1,402
Default Re: Barra Turbo Track Suitability

Quote:
Originally Posted by kypez View Post
If it's just track days, then forget everything else...

Take the car, Change the brake fluid and pads. Carry a few spare turbo hoses. Get a set of staggered wheels and invest in some good semi slicks (the Dunlop's work great with the weight of the car). Go nuts. Maybe a race pan if you can find one.

Keep sessions to 15 minutes (20 minutes max depending on circuit; longer straights lets things cool, tighter tracks hurt the car more) and have fun.
This is excellent advice
Walt Kowalski is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 06-02-2024, 09:57 PM   #14
FG50T
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
FG50T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 935
Default Re: Barra Turbo Track Suitability

I would stick with the BMW’s tbh. Something like a manual (or dct) E87 135i with a tune, coilovers and a pad upgrade would be way ahead of money thrown at a Barra. I remember what Nelsonian went through to stay competitive. You can make it work but it’s always easier driving a better balanced car around the track.
FG50T is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 04-06-2024, 02:54 PM   #15
Polyal
The 'Stihl' Man
Donating Member2
 
Polyal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: TAS
Posts: 27,585
Default Re: Barra Turbo Track Suitability

OK so thought I would update the thread, it just so happens a car popped up semi-locally and I investigated, had the basic layout I wanted RWD, I6, manual and this one has a stock LSD too.

Anyway as per sig (IS200) its also got a sneaky turbo setup that needs some refinement but the basics are there.

Yet to take it to the track but bum-o-meter it feels pretty solid without being a total weapon so it will be enough to keep me in trouble.

Ill start a build thread soon although this year some focus will be back on the fairlane.
__________________
  • 2017 Toyota Prado (work hack)
  • 2017 Mitsubishi Pajero Sport
  • 2003 CL7 Honda Accord Euro R (JDM) - K20A 6MT
  • 1999 Lexus IS200 - 1G-FE Turbo 6MT
  • 1973 ZF Ford Fairlane
Polyal is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
5 users like this post:
Reply


Forum Jump


All times are GMT +11. The time now is 07:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Other than what is legally copyrighted by the respective owners, this site is copyright www.fordforums.com.au
Positive SSL